Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Dec 2016 13:42

Guys, I am frustrated by what appears to me to be a yearning to see the US come to our help in tackling TSP. The US-TSP relationship has multiple layers, terrorism, counter-terrorism, Afghanistan, China, India etc. Being a less powerful country than India, Pakistan has to skillfully exploit these levers. And, it does it. A recent proof of that is the successful management of the fallout following OBL being found in Abbottabad. The relationship has generally flourished except for some funds being stopped and F-16 purchases being postponed. These will happen in due course of time and Pakistan is in no hurry. An earlier proof of that was the ability of Pakistan to have normal relationship with China and the US even while being a member of SEATO/CENTO. Whether the US itself allowed that to happen in order to have a backdoor access to PRC in order to tackle the USSR or not is irrelevant. No US President can take the kind of action against Pakistan that we imagine or at times salivate for, here.

Let us do what we have to do.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Dec 2016 13:50

^
Same here SS saar. Our solution has to come from the inside.

No one does anyone else favors in the international system and all parties hedge against all parties except Bakis/Cheenis against India. We should expect US/Russia/UK/Japan/Germany/Other BRICS going up to Bangladesh and Sri Lanka to hedge their bets or to put it differently play one against the other.

This should be the default mode of understanding international relationship. I was surprised that some thought that Trumpet was going to pummel Bakis on India's behalf just because some random Indian raised some cash for him or that his DIL attended a Diwali party.

OTOH, I think what is being reported of his talk is also Trumpet version of polite talk and Bakis will realize that with time. Trumpet was not elected to to India's or Bakis bidding. Amreeka only does what is in its interest.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Dec 2016 13:56

To believe that DT will follow someones advice or tunes is little hard to digest knowing how he behaved during the presidential elections. Now that he El Presidente, do you think that he is going to follow the script especially when it comes to Bakistan about which the only thing the Non-deep state actors know is that Terrorists who kill white folks come from there.
DT is the swan event that everyone has been waiting for but could never have guessed it.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Dec 2016 14:08

SSridhar wrote:Guys, I am frustrated by what appears to me to be a yearning to see the US come to our help in tackling TSP. The US-TSP relationship has multiple layers, terrorism, counter-terrorism, Afghanistan, China, India etc. Being a less powerful country than India, Pakistan has to skillfully exploit these levers. And, it does it. A recent proof of that is the successful management of the fallout following OBL being found in Abbottabad. The relationship has generally flourished except for some funds being stopped and F-16 purchases being postponed. These will happen in due course of time and Pakistan is in no hurry. An earlier proof of that was the ability of Pakistan to have normal relationship with China and the US even while being a member of SEATO/CENTO. Whether the US itself allowed that to happen in order to have a backdoor access to PRC in order to tackle the USSR or not is irrelevant. No US President can take the kind of action against Pakistan that we imagine or at times salivate for, here.

Let us do what we have to do.

Once you dig deep you will see that this yearning is misplaced.
Just look at India from the western perspective. India will be the largest populated country by 2030. That is less than 15 years from now.
India will have an economy which is growing and will reach $45 T by 2050 if not earlier.

India has invested less in its security for its size than most other countries. They will question why they should help India when it can take care of itself. Pakistan is considered an effective block to India for all this reason. The demand is getting generated in India due to pak and India will pay for those defense HW to take care of its security. The west has invested in Pak for the last 30 years to generate a demand for the next 30 years.

This leads to the conclusion why India has to invest in make in India program for the entire defense industry. The west watched carefully in the last 30 years that Indian govt invest less in make in India defense buildup. They exploited it by spending their money in Pak. This created future demand

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 Dec 2016 14:12

VikasRaina wrote:To believe that DT will follow someones advice or tunes is little hard to digest knowing how he behaved during the presidential elections. Now that he El Presidente, do you think that he is going to follow the script especially when it comes to Bakistan about which the only thing the Non-deep state actors know is that Terrorists who kill white folks come from there.
DT is the swan event that everyone has been waiting for but could never have guessed it.

Once we understand the role of India and Indians in the GOTUS and US global theator influence in the world then only we can figure out how to get Indian interest satisfied.

Naivety must be discarded

pankajs wrote: I was surprised that some thought that Trumpet was going to pummel Bakis on India's behalf just because some random Indian raised some cash for him or that his DIL attended a Diwali party.

asgkhan · Post by **asgkhan** » 01 Dec 2016 14:27

TSP is the old ho who can turn some specific tricks which the big bad uncle tom is addicted to.
Bakis are like the '@n@l acrobats' from the brazzers series. Why would SD give up such talent ?

I would prefer our desis to sharpen their knives, build a smart wall, keep isolating the pukes @ every given opportunity.

All this special relationship cr@p, keep it localised to russie, jewski and other small countries.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Dec 2016 15:58

I think all this talk by GoI asking US govt to do something about Pak is for public consumption, moral posturing and keep pressure on Pak.Every mandarin in South block knows that only India will have to solve India's problem and no one from outside will come to punish Pak for Indias sake.But for that we need to quantify the strategy towards Pak first.
I personally would strategise for Balochistan being merged back in India while Sindh becomes something like Bhutan whereas Pakjab and Pathans can continue in their lovefest of Jinnah provided country.. We can push Islam Pasand abduls from Sindh into Punjab.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 01 Dec 2016 17:40

Here you go, Rakshaks. Here's the official denial from the Minds of Trump. OUCH!!

Trump team clears air on Sharif talks, official says Pak account inappropriate

President-elect Donald Trump has issued a statement countering Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s account of a telephone conversation between them, giving a bland, workman-like version in his first riposte to a foreign leader.

The Pakistani readout of the conversation seemed to have committed him to more than he meant, sources said, prompting the rare counter

A Trump transition team official called this account of the conversation “inappropriate”, pointed to the bland undramatic account of the same conversation issued to speculate Sharif may have got on to a bad start with the president-elect

OUCH. That must hurt.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 1axFM.html

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Dec 2016 18:09

^^^ Anup, Still not buying yet.

No US Media source has reported that anyone from the Trump Transition Team or Donald Trump himself has characterised the readout of the call released by the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan as “inappropriate”.

In any event with the amount of coverage seeking to adversely portray President Elect Trump for the fawning nature of the telecon with Nawaz Sharif and the upending of existing US policy implicit in the call, it would be logical that a refutation would be delivered on the record, not anonymously. Further if deemed “inappropriate” I would have expected an outright denial rather than nebulous roundabout explanation claiming bland nature of Trump Team call readout. Anyway this kind of oblique explanation makes me think South Block

.

Examples of the adverse coverage follow.

I suspect though these headlines have more to do with a dislike of President Elect Donald Trump rather than a liking for India.

Donald Trump’s Phone Conversation With the Leader of Pakistan Was Reckless and Bizarre:

TIME Magazine

Donald Trump's fawning conversation with Pakistan's PM Nawaz Sharif is widely mocked:

Independent, UK

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 01 Dec 2016 18:42

SSridhar wrote:Guys, I am frustrated by what appears to me to be a yearning to see the US come to our help in tackling TSP.

I come from the POV of 'udhavi seyyalana paravailla, ubathravam seyyaama iruntha seri' (don't need help, just don't disturb in the guise of help)

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 01 Dec 2016 19:25

So Foggy Bottom is back to its usual ways. Trump supporting NS is a good thing for us because of the keeda it does to the army.

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 01 Dec 2016 20:50

Mr. Swarup gives out GoI's line of thought on the Nagrota outrage..

Vikas Swarup on cross border terror

External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Vikas Swarup also said the government is awaiting detailed information on the specifics of the Nagrota attack before it decides on the next steps.

"But I do wish to emphasise that the government takes this incident very seriously and will do what it feels is required for our national security," he asserted.

Given the current Govt's penchant for keeping a low profile till the big day, I suspect plans to strike back are cooking, with the learnings from the Surgical slaps that we delivered..the focus should be on humiliating the porkis in a way they cannot deny as usual.. Can't wait to see the blundering Senile Aziz and Moldy Lodhi running to UN crying bloody murder..

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 01 Dec 2016 21:59

I know people here will be jumping all over me for daring to post something from p!ssnicks like Jyothi Malhotra, but leaving aside her only nauseating prescription to "reach out" to TSP, there are some good observations she makes, notably, ModiJi's attempt to isolate TSP is running into rough weather. I don't know about the efficacy of surgical strikes (for sure, many more are needed), but his plan to isolate ModiJi have certainly lost steam IMO. Unless of course, he ups the ante. Why on earth would he allow that fart Sartaz Aziz to Amritsar is beyond me

http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/nagrota-att ... me-opinion

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 02 Dec 2016 00:44

So, this is the SECOND time, within a week that the PAKI ESTABLISHMENT has been "forced" to swallow it's own words

First, the Russia- CPEC fiasco and now the "reality check" on Ganja's phone call .

Is this Pakistan's way of fighting its diplomatic isolation ?

Time wil tell !

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 02 Dec 2016 03:10

So from a quick search of the media coverage of that phone conversation between Sharif and Trump, it looks like the TSP civil government broke protocol and gave out an exaggerated and literal transcript of the conversation (in keeping with usual bravado and chest thumping like Ishaq Dar getting the 'best finance minister of South Asia' award

).

It seems to have backfired on them, since Trump's team released a much more sober and traditional summary that doesn't mention any of that crap, and it has widely become a joke worldwide. People in TSP are mocking it because they know how their leaders are, and people in the West are making fun of Trump. The TSP govt has now released a revised press release with much less exaggeration.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 02 Dec 2016 03:26

China launches direct rail, sea freight service between Kunming and Karachi

China and Pakistan have launched a direct rail and sea freight service, with the first cargo train departing from Yunnan, an inland province in southwest China, the official Xinhua news agency reported.

A cargo train loaded with 500 tonnes of commodities left Kunming, capital of Yunnan, for port city of Guangzhou from where the cargo will be loaded on ships and transported to Karachi, marking the opening of the new route.

Well! Well!! & Well!!!

Why not use the CPEC Project? Is it meant only for Xinjiang? To strangulate the Uyghur Freedom Movement?
Cheers

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 02 Dec 2016 03:31

India takes tongue-in-cheek dig at Pakistan claims over Donald Trump call

NEW DELHI: The Indian government has said it is looking forward to US President-elect Donald Trump addressing what it referred to as Pakistan's 'most outstanding of outstanding problems' - terrorism. The tongue-in-cheek comment came in response to questions over Pakistan's claims that made it appear that Trump had offered to side with Pakistan in its unsolved issues.

"We have seen the reports of the conversation (between Trump and Pakistan PM Nawaz Sharif) that were one-sided and claimed the President-elect promised to help Pakistan with all outstanding issues," said Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson Vikas Swarup+ , when asked about the statement that was issued by the Pakistan government that hinted that Trump would be willing to intervene on Pakistan's behalf.

"We look forward to the President-elect helping Pakistan address the most outstanding of its outstanding issues - terrorism," Swarup added in deadpan.

Cheers

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 02 Dec 2016 04:19

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ation.html

Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign manager, and long-time lobbyist for Pakistan/ISI (involved with the Ghulam Nabi Fai group) has returned to play influential role in the Trump transition team.

Maybe he was the one who advised The Donald to slobber all over Nawaz Sharif on the phone?

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 02 Dec 2016 04:33

sudhan wrote:Mr. Swarup gives out GoI's line of thought on the Nagrota outrage..

Vikas Swarup on cross border terror

External Affairs Ministry Spokesperson Vikas Swarup also said the government is awaiting detailed information on the specifics of the Nagrota attack before it decides on the next steps.

"But I do wish to emphasise that the government takes this incident very seriously and will do what it feels is required for our national security," he asserted.
Given the current Govt's penchant for keeping a low profile till the big day, I suspect plans to strike back are cooking, with the learnings from the Surgical slaps that we delivered..the focus should be on humiliating the porkis in a way they cannot deny as usual.. Can't wait to see the blundering Senile Aziz and Moldy Lodhi running to UN crying bloody murder..

Humiliation is important because Pak Mil attacks us in order to maintain face internally. In other words, whenever a Pak politician needs to establish his credibility, he becomes a hawk on India. E.g. the youngest Bhutto. Similarly, whenever a Pak general or the MI establishment wants to assert its primacy over the local politicians, they attack some isolated post or some weak spot in our security establishment.

What needs to happen is a public humiliation that Pak turds just cant deny, so that such escalation becomes counter productive. The conversation that needs to happen in Pak after such attacks is - that idiot Sharief acted irrationally and invited this calamity on us, instead of 'Look at our herrow Sharief.. how bravely he has managed to kill Indians in their homes'.

Such jhapads need to be administered regularly to everyone in public life in Pakistan, be they politicians, media figures, capitalists or generals. They are all vulnerable. They just dont know it yet.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Dec 2016 07:16

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 02 Dec 2016 07:35

I have a problem with this "news"

'Terrific guy, fantastic country': Trump heaps praise on Pakistan's leader

Pakistan’s government has released details of an extraordinary telephone call between the US president-elect and Pakistan’s prime minister Nawaz Sharif

Donald Trump has heaped praise on Pakistan, traditionally a troublesome US ally, saying it is a “fantastic country, fantastic place of fantastic people” according to an official statement released by Islamabad.

The US president-elect made his effusive comments in a phone conversation on Wednesday with Nawaz Sharif, prime minister of the nuclear-armed state, whom Trump hailed as a “terrific guy”.

The statement by the government’s Press Information Department quoted Trump saying: “As I am talking to you prime minister, I feel I am talking to a person I have known for long. Your country is amazing with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people.”

It sounds like insincerity or a lie. In general Americans don't say "most intelligent people" that is a subcontinental hang-up. This business of "I feel I have known you for a long time" is again the sort of insincere "polite praise" that is necessary for "cordial relations" all the way from Arabia to Pakjab.

The conversation itself as reported is clearly designed to make Pakis feel happy, and a report that makes Pakis feel happy has a 100% likelihood of making Indians upset/worried/anxious/angry - and Pakis know this. While I am sure the actual content of the conversation is fabricated the real question to me is why it was reported as such.

Here is my analysis. After 9-11 US pressure on Pakistan to act against jihadi groups and Paks double game has ensured that a large segment of Pakis actually hate the US. In fact some groups affiliated to ISIS/Al Qaeda have openly accused the army and civilian apparatus of being stooges of the USA. This is not difficult to conclude because US weapons have been used to hit inconvenient anti Pak army groups and there is resentment.

Pakistan has for long played the game that they could fight the Taliban better if only India was taken care of by America. This report may be the first one to try and lull Trump and his people into a sense that Pakistan is "all friendliness". In the conversation it is not Pakistan that is reaching out to Trump. Trump is reaching out to Pakistan showing Pakistan's importance. In general - diplomatic conversations between leaders are not made public and the US cannot deny much of what the report claims. Can the US deny that Pakistanis are intelligent? Can the US deny that Pakistan is a great country and Pakis are a great people? No one says anything different about anyone - and to that extent Pakis have already made the first move. They are willing to take aid against India. Even the jihadis can't protest because it is not Pakistan begging the US but Trump praising Pakistan.

This is an interesting diplomatic game and one that does not conform to the usual rules that India and most other countries follow.

What Trump will actually do remains to be seen. The US has never had the power to check Pakistan, but has been able to bribe Pakistan and keep it from turning overtly hostile. This may be a continuation of that game.

At worst nothing will change for India. We have to continue to make ourselves more powerful and watch the US slide down Only a decrease in US power can lead to a decline in Pakistani ability to hold Indian attention.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 02 Dec 2016 08:20

The Express Tribune > Sports

Pakistan to boycott all India-hosted events[*]

[/url][/color]

[*] Hope it also includes non- sporting events ; they can still "cancel" their attendance at the HEART OF ASIA CONFERENCE

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 02 Dec 2016 08:36

What India has to do is rise economically (doing it), rise militarily (not doing fast enough), keep exposing paki duplicity perfidy islamivity etc etc (doing it), and raise the cost to the US for supporting bakis in any shape or form.

Regarding bakis: Talk to Trump only on bigger issues such as after balkanization or volcanization (total destruction) of GoatFu*ckistan how to deal with the lose-nukes.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 02 Dec 2016 08:42

While Pakistanis might have slightly embellished the report, I have come to think that it may not be outright lie.

Pakis have traditionally been masters at psychologically manipulating American leaders. Indian leaders maintain formality and a distance. Over the past several months, Pakis have been trying very hard to get close to Russia and have been disseminating news that would indicate a higher degree of increasing closeness with Russia than what might actually be the ground reality.

US is in a predicament as they still need a honorable exit out of Afghanistan and do not want Afghan end game to be fully owned by China and Russia with Pakistan as the enabler. US neo cons and christian white nationalists are not naive to blindly believe Pakistan but they are also playing Pakistan.

However, if the report has some elements of truth, Trump seems to have crossed the line by offering himself as a broker to solve Pakistan's problems. We all know what Pakistan lists as its fundamental problem and where they have been seeking third party mediation.

We dont know if it was the Paki lobbyist who advised Trump incorrectly or whether this is some standard script that Trump uses for all leaders as he might be too eager to prove himself as more of a likeable leader. Either way, by publicly putting out a transcript of the conversation which has been widely condemned in all mainstream US media, Pakis have gotten on the wrong foot as persons who are not to be trusted.

Even the Paki lobbyist would be embarassed.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 02 Dec 2016 08:51

C.P.E.C Realty Check !
What exactly does 'joining CPEC' mean? "The kind of childish enthusiasm that is growing around the CPEC needs to be tempered with a little dose of reality."

The kind of childish enthusiasm that is growing around the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) needs to be tempered with a little dose of reality. The project is a good one, but people really need to understand that it is a very long-term proposition, not something that is about to start happening within a few years.

This is THE PROJECT that will propel Pakiland into a 21st century soup er power

Take a couple of examples from the recent past. A few days ago, reports began circulating that Russia had asked to join CPEC and had been granted permission by the Pakistani government. This sounded odd to me, considering the land route to Gwadar port is hardly economically viable for Russia given the enormous distances.The reports claimed that a senior official from “the Russian Intelligence Agency” (which one?) was on a visit to Pakistan and engaged in “secret negotiations” and “met with military high ups”. During this visit, he reportedly expressed an interest for his country to join CPEC, and the request was quickly granted.

And the "fake news" made it to the front pages !

A closer look at the reports revealed something odd. None of them had a clearly identifiable source, not even unofficial statements given off the record, which are traditionally put in quotes when being reported without attribution.

And in any case, this is not how those kind of talks are held, in secret, between officials from “the Russian Intelligence Agency” and the military. There are formal channels for such talks.
The rumours became intense as they were picked up by TV channels, citing anonymous officials, and sparked some heavy-duty analysis, including from the Indian side, where a former diplomat actually wrote a lengthy column weaving a fantastic scenario around the development. Geopolitical minds were spinning like the wheels of a bullet train, imagining a giant bloc including China, Pakistan and Russia arrayed against India and America simultaneously. I’m always amazed at the speed with which people conjure up geopolitical scenarios of this sort in this country.

Latest example is the Ganja-Trump phone call

But some amount of damage had already been done. The tale had grown with the telling, with reports appearing that France wanted to join, that Boris Johnson had alluded to Britain’s interest in becoming a part, that Turkmenistan wanted in. And Afghanistan and India over obviously envious that they were not "invited" to join

Ask yourself a simple question: what exactly does ‘joining CPEC’ mean? Use of the port? Use of the roads to drive cargo to the port? Contracts for construction of the infrastructure? Refuelling rights at Gwadar? None of the reports cared for these details. A simple runaway list of one country after another lining up to “join CPEC” was presented as some sort of game-changing moment that is about to alter the course of Pakistan’s history. And reports of Balochi separatism was ruthlessly suppressed by the Deep State !

I often end up playing the role of spoiler in such giddy moments, and then get accused of being a RAW agent, a traitor, a sell-out and every other accusation that people habitually toss at those who hold views different from their own. So let me run that risk one more time. CPEC is a good thing for Pakistan, but as a road project alone, it is not viable for long-distance trade at the moment.

It connects the economy of Pakistan with the economy of Xinjiang province in China, not the total economy of China because most of that is located on the East coast where there are already multiple sea ports available for a fraction of the cost of overland freight.

But much hoopla is being made of a train leaving Kunming, China with a cargo that is headed for Karachi !

I read with sadness the statement by our railway minister that when he asked the Chinese about a bullet train for Pakistan as part of CPEC, “they laughed at us”. I believe there is some amount of snickering in Moscow, London and Paris as well about the reports we’ve been reading lately.
We are approaching the project more as a customer with a credit card in a shopping mall rather than a country with a policy direction and vision of where it wants to go over the next 25 years. If urging a little maturity in our thinking about projects of national importance makes me an agent of foreign powers in the minds of the giddy brigade, then so be it.

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SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Dec 2016 09:37

Pakistan is not begging for dialogue: Abdul Basit - The Hindu

Q: Pakistan Foreign Affairs Advisor Sartaj Aziz will be visiting India for the Heart of Asia conference this weekend. Do you expect a bilateral meeting, and where do you see ties today?

A: In the India-Pakistan relationship have seen many ups and downs. We have made many diplomatic initiatives but unfortunately things always come back to square one and we have to start afresh. What the two countries need is to make gains, and then consolidate, to build on them. But our trend is one step forward, two steps back and then discuss how to break the ice again. Some thought the Heart of Asia conference may be the time when the two countries move towards a thaw. We have expressed our readiness to consider any proposal for talks from the Indian side, whether or not they would like to have a bilateral engagement on the margins of the conference. We fully understand that the focus should stay on Afghanistan at the conference. And whether or not there are bilateral talks, our adviser is coming because Afghanistan is important for us, its stability and economy are important for us so we will participate constructively.

The challenge is for the two sides on how to move forward. In Islamabad, we do have a strong desire to move forward. We have the patience to wait. If they don’t break the ice in Amritsar perhaps we will find another opportunity somewhere later.

Q: The MEA says no formal proposal has been received by them, are you then simply speaking through the media here?

A: As happens at these multilateral forum meetings, we had conveyed that our adviser would attend and he made a statement that we are open to ideas (for talks) . As hosts India will decide our programme. We have expressed our desire, but we do not know if India is willing. We are kind of in a situation where we would like the ice to break but we would not like to take any step that will not be reciprocated.

Q: You said Afghanistan’s stability is important, but both India and Afghanistan hold Pakistan responsible for cross border terrorism they face. Are you worried that you will be cornered at the conference with the declaration that is likely to contain tough words on terror?

A: Why should we worry because terrorism is also an important issue for us and the final draft on terror is being negotiated, and many brackets will be removed from the declaration before it is cleared. We are not worried. We have our own positions on these issues. We are the outgoing co-chair., and we were able to have an Islamabad declaration which will be followed by the Amritsar declaration.

Q: Is the 2003 ceasefire now dead? Have the recent exchanges of fire on the LoC and International border now taken India and Pakistan back to the pre-2003 ceasefire situation?

A: 2003 ceasefire was an important Confidence Building Measure (CBM). We would not like to see it destroyed. That’s why, last week, our DGMO took the initiative to speak to his Indian counterpart. We would very much like peace and tranquility to be preserved. I think this CBM should not be ended. We must preserve it and then consolidate.

Q: What is the mechanism to do this now. Should Army chiefs meet?

A: No, I think the first step is to give diplomacy a chance. Unless we do that I don’t know how we can achieve these objectives, and create the space for it.

Q: What according to you is responsible for the flare up at the LoC

A: I don’t want to dwell on it but in Pakistan, there is a feeling that since July 8th, what is happening in Jammu and Kashmir have made things difficult. Whatever India and Pakistan agreed to in Islamabad last year (during Sushma Swaraj’s visit) of a comprehensive dialogue process including Jammu and Kashmir, the feeling in Islamabad is that there is no desire for a comprehensive dialogue in Delhi. The problem with LoC firing is you blame us, and we blame you.

Q: So how do you go forward?

A: The first thing is the firing must end immediately, and then the next step has to be bilateral engagement. That is unavoidable. You can’t agree on anything unless you talk with each other. I can’t say more, because I don’t know what India wants to do.

Q: We did have engagement…PM Modi invited PM Sharif, then he visited Lahore…but we are still at the same place.

A: This is somehow the nature of our relationship. We all thought that our PM coming we were all looking to a good process. But you all know what followed with the Hurriyat. Then FS Jaishankar visited Pakistan. The July 8th comes {Bullsh!t Basit thinks he can say anything, but that is Pakistani diplomacy. The whole set of answers is as usual ridiculous. But this one, especially. Like Pakistani history textbooks which start from 712 AD and skip inconvenient portions, BS Basit has followed the same tactic} and we are back to square one. Hence it is in my view important not to brush aside issues that bedevil relations. Jammu and Kashmir becomes the issue between us. It’s resolution is absolutely important for us. That is not happening. We have already agreed that on the comprehensive dialogue framework. If we are ensconsed in our respective positions then we wont move.

Q: You say Jammu & Kashmir is the main issue, we say no talks till terror end. Why is Pakistan unable to deliver action on terror groups like LeT and JeM when it can’t take action against other groups.

A: There is zero tolerance for terrorism in Pakistan. The organisations you mentioned are proscribed organisations. We have in the past taken actions against them. And if there is proof against them it should be shared with us not speculation and hearsay.

But all terrorism is a big issue for us. We want to discuss what is happening in Balochistan, FATA, Karachi. We would like to move in a more reasonable manner.

Q: What more proof do you want for action against Masood Azhar for example. Everyone saw him on TV being exchanged for hostages…is there any doubt about his guilt?

A: This cannot be done just on the basis of speculation or unfounded stories. We are ready to play our role, so long as this is done on the basis of irrefutable evidence . Even after Pathankot, Pakistan moved quickly and filed an FIR. That should be testimony to the seriousness of purpose, but they need a cooperative approach.

Q: The Pakistan government has started an International campaign on Kashmir, is it possible to have a dialogue at the same time?

A: Pakistan will continue to extend moral and diplomatic support to the people of J&K. To expect Pakistan to look the other way would not be possible. And we are not alone. OIC has issued a statement on support of J&K. UN Human Rights Commissioner wants to send a fact finding mission there.

Q: What about the fact that in the region Pakistan has been isolated on this issue, which led to the SAARC summit being cancelled?

A: That is a temporary thing. If SAARC couldn’t be held that is our collective loss. We also have serious issues on terrorism. The entire leadership of the TTP, for example, is in Afghanistan. We still strongly feel that terrorism is a common challenge and it is only through a cooperative approach that we can make a difference, not targeting one country.

Q: So what are you suggesting for dialogue. Can Pakistan give any assurances on terror?

A: I think we need to work on how to break the impasse between us. It is a slightly skewed approach to think India is doing a favour by having a dialogue process. Pakistan is not begging for dialogue. If India is not ready, we can always wait. We will continue to work to break the impasse, but we are very clear that dialogue is the only way our countries can move forward and they cannot live in a state of perpetual hostility. Talking to each other is inevitable. Whether it happens 1 year down the road or 3 years down the road.

Q: What is behind the new friendship with Russia? Many in India have been concerned given the first military exercise and other exchanges…

A: If Russia engages with Pakistan how is it a loss for India? We are living in a world that is transforming in many ways. Russia is a sovereign country, so is Pakistan. China and India have very good relations, China is one of India’s biggest trading partners, but that doesn’t have an impact on Pakistan and China’s strategic partnership. All good relations work to our collective advantage. I don’t subscribe to this zero sum game. Also remember, Russia played an important part when the Tashkent agreement happened, so good relations always help.

Q: What about the US? We saw the statement on the conversation between President-elect Trump and PM Sharif where he offered to play a role to help sort out problems.

A: Well, we are looking forward to having a good relationship with the incoming administration in the US. The US is our largest trading partner, and has a big role in Afghanistan . What the US will do vis a vis India and Pakistan is not for me to say. At the end of the day any decision has to be taken by India and Pakistan rather than a third country. We have to take the difficult decisions. We can count on US and other countries to encourage us. But primary decisions lie between New Delhi and Islamabad.

Q: How worried are you about PM Modi’s recent statements on the Indus Water Treaty?

A: Indus Water Treaty is a permanent treaty. It can neither be changed nor abandoned unilaterally. We urge India to discuss their problems through dispute settlement mechanisms. And so far we have been able to resolve all our issues.

Q: How do you see the new restraint on cultural exchanges, on Pakistani film stars and performers as well as Pakistan’s ban on Indian films?

A: We saw what happened to Fawad Khan and we are concerned by that. Look, it is difficult to build these ties, but easy to destroy them. We need to try and build on CBMs rather than taking steps away from them . I would encourage people to people contacts. This year we issued visas immediately to Sikh Yatris and Hindu Yatris for pilgrimages. That continues to be our approach. But there is public opinion in Pakistan building up too that follows Pakistan bashing here and the ban there was in reaction to the events here.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Dec 2016 09:59

http://nation.com.pk/columns/02-Dec-201 ... conference

Heart of Asia Conference

The participation of Pakistan in the Heart of Asia Conference at Amritsar would not only scuttle Indian attempts to isolate Pakistan but would send a very positive message to the international community that Pakistan in spite of the bellicose stance of India was committed to and believed in diplomatic engagement to resolve mutual issues.The initiative has also put Pakistan on a higher moral ground in this regard.Pakistan’s desire and willingness to start a dialogue with India on the sidelines of the Conference surely reinforces that image.The presence of Sartaj Aziz at the conference would also provide an opportunity to Pakistan to counter any negative propaganda by India concerning achievement of the objectives of the organisation.There are already media reports that India was contemplating to portray Pakistan as a stumbling block in the promotion of regional trade citing refusal by Pakistan to allow trucks carrying goods from Afghanistan to enter India through Wahga border.There are host of reasons for Pakistan not to allow trade between Afghanistan and India which stem from political considerations and lack of reciprocity on the part of other players like Afghanistan which has already increased taxes levied on goods entering Afghanistan from Pakistan by 50%.The participation of the Pakistan delegation in the conference and their interaction with representatives of other countries and international agencies, would also help in explaining the reasons behind the current conflict-ridden relations between India and Pakistan as well as exposing Indian atrocities in occupied Kashmir to quell the freedom movement.Seen in the backdrop of the foregoing facts and developments, the move by Pakistan to ensure its presence at the Conference has advantages of its own in regards to refurbishing Pakistan’s image in the comity of nations and in strengthening its credentials as a peacemaker.

habal · Post by **habal** » 02 Dec 2016 10:47

the young turks take on Trump's phone call to Nawaz Sharif

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Dec 2016 13:54

Our official spokes-person Vikas Swarup on the fawning content of US President Elect Donald Trump’s telecon with Mohammadden Terrorism fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Nawaz Sharif.

To suggest what the Trump Transition team read out of the telecon as “a bit of a rejoinder from the US side” is an exaggeration by Mr. Swarup as it amounts to even less than a “bit”:

Transcript of Weekly Media Briefing by Official Spokesperson (December 01, 2016)

December 02, 2016 ………………………..

Question: Yesterday the Pakistan government, put out a transcript of the conversation that took place between Mr. Nawaz Sharif and Mr. Donald Trump which seems to mention a lot about fantastic people, fantastic country, wanting to visit them. What is India's view of the new administration in the US, your expectations when it comes to the region and terrorism emanating from Pakistan?

Official Spokesperson, Shri Vikas Swarup: Look, in so far as the fantastic conversation is concerned, I've already seen a bit of a rejoinder from the US side, so I would reserve my judgment. We have only seen a one-sided version of that conversation. That conversation does talk about, you know, the President-elect willing to resolve outstanding issues of Pakistan. Well, we believe that the most outstanding of the outstanding issues is Pakistan's continued support to cross-border terrorism. To that extent, we would welcome a dialogue between the US and Pakistan to resolve that particular issue.

As far as the incoming administration’s views on various issues is concerned, I do not think it would be appropriate for us to comment on them till the new administration actually takes over.

MEA Weekly Briefing:

CLICKY

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Dec 2016 14:00

US White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest on the Obama Administration’s reaction to the fawning content of US President Elect Donald Trump’s telecon with Mohammadden Terrorism fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Nawaz Sharif.

Press Briefing by Press Secretary Josh Earnest, 12/1/2016 ……………….

Q Second, on Pakistan, would this White House agree with Donald Trump's description that Pakistan is "amazing" and that its citizens are "one of the most intelligent people"? That's the description the Foreign Ministry provided of the conversation that Donald Trump had with their Prime Minister yesterday.

MR. EARNEST: Darlene, I saw the readout of the telephone call that you're referring to. I can't speak to the accuracy or to the tone of that phone call. I'd refer you to the President-elect's team for more of a description of what the President-elect may have communicated to the Prime Minister of Pakistan. Obviously, President Obama's conversations with his counterpart in Pakistan have been an important priority. The U.S. relationship with Pakistan is one that's quite complicated, particularly when you consider our overlapping national security interests. The relations between our two countries, particularly over the last eight years, have not been smooth -- consistently smooth, particularly in the aftermath of the raid on Pakistani soil that President Obama ordered to take Osama bin Laden off the battlefield.

But this obviously is an important relationship. There have been areas where the United States and Pakistan have been able to effectively coordinate our efforts. But one of the things that I'm reminded of is that every President, regardless of which party they're in, benefits enormously from the expertise and service of thousands of patriotic Americans at the State Department. These are men and women -- some of them are career Foreign Service Officers. Some of them are just career civil servants. But these are individuals who are committed and passionate about serving our country and representing our country overseas, regardless of who the President is.

And President Obama benefitted enormously from the advice and expertise that's been shared by those who serve at the State Department. And I'm confident that as President-elect Trump takes office, those same State Department employees will stand ready to offer him advice as he conducts the business of the United States overseas. Hopefully he'll take it.

Q According to their readout, Donald Trump also said that he'd like to visit Pakistan. And I know President Obama has never been there.

MR. EARNEST: Not as President.

Q Not as President. Is there anything you can say about why he never visited as President?

MR. EARNEST: Yeah, at one point in his presidency, I do recall President Obama expressing a desire to travel to Pakistan. For a variety of reasons, some of them relating to the complicated relationship between our two countries at certain times over the last eight years, President Obama was not able to realize that ambition. But one thing we do know is that it sends a powerful message to the people of a country when the President of the United States goes to visit. And that's true whether it's some of our closest allies, or that's also true if it's a country like Pakistan, with whom our relationship is somewhat more complicated. But ultimately, when President Trump begins planning his overseas travel, he'll have a range of places to consider, and Pakistan would certainly be one of them.

From the White House website here:

CLICKY

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 02 Dec 2016 17:50

Lahori Logic And Sialkoti Statistics

PML-N papers: A snapshot of Nawaz Sharif's personal expenses through 2011-2012

Dawn.com does not endorse or confirm the claims made in the case file.

The documents submitted in the country's top court show that in the year 2011, he spent nothing on electricity, gas and rent bills for his residence.

According to an FBR document in connection with details of Sharif's personal expenses in 2012, he again spent nothing on electricity, gas and rent bills at his residence.

Documents show that Sharif spent Rs1,224,892 on airfare during the year 2010. He made 10 domestic and international tours during the year.
In 2011, he made only four national and international tours, which cost Rs998,206.In 2012, he spent Rs1,776,600 on 10 domestic and international travels.

According to a wealth statement of his spouse Kalsoom Nawaz, she spent Rs1,125,630 during 2011 as personal expenses but only Rs15,035 during 2012.

Some of the readers' comments are interesting which include that all these are "bogus figures" which needed to be audited by an independent third party!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 02 Dec 2016 18:58

Will respond with full force to India on LoC: Pakistan Army Chief Gen Qamar Bajwa - PTI

Pakistan's newly-appointed army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa today raked up the Kashmir issue for the first time in his address to soldiers and asked them to respond with "full force" to any ceasefire violations by India along the LoC.

"Each violation of any kind must be responded to with full force in the most effective manner," he said during a visit to the 10 Corps Rawalpindi and troops at forward locations along the Line of Control (LoC).

Bajwa was briefed on the security situation along the LoC "in view of recent violations and escalation by Indian troops and Pakistan's own response," the army's media wing Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said in a statement.

He said India's "aggressive posture" aims solely to divert the world's attention away from "atrocities" being committed by Indian troops in Kashmir, Dawn quoted the statement as saying.

The Kashmir issue will have to be resolved in line with United Nations resolutions keeping in view the aspirations of the Kashmiri people in order to achieve lasting regional peace, Bajwa said in his first public comments on the Kashmir issue after taking over as the Chief of Army Staff this week.

He appreciated the "befitting response" given to "unprovoked Indian firing" across the LoC {So, he is referring to the terrorist strikes in Uri and now Nagrota as 'befitting responses' because I have not seen anything else from PA per se. This is going to be the PA response in future too. They will initiate some mischief along the LoC and heavy Indian retaliation would attract 'behind-the-lines' terror attack including attacking the families of Army personnel. Our response must be unpredictable and disproportionately severe. We shouldn't hesitate to use weapons in our armour.} and asked troops to keep the highest level of vigil at all times.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 02 Dec 2016 20:13

SSJi, absolutely. Even Gen. Ata Hasnain said the same thing. TSPA knows that they have delivered a few pigLeT punches in response to India's surgical strikes, culminating in the Nagrota attack, and they also know Indian army and leadership got the message. Although my own opinion is that they wanted to do something more spectacular which was foiled by Indian army (for e.g., the pigLeTs gunned down in Samba wanted to do something dramatic, and likewise, the pigLeTs in Nagrota didn't quite succeed 100% in taking out a lot more of our guys). Note also the LoC has also cooled off.

In TSP's mind now, the fart Sartaj Aziz will come on a "victory" march to Amritsar were you can be assured the fawning DDM will give him a lot of air space, he will talk about p!ss and dialogue etc. And of course, he will be helped in no small measure by those in India opposed to ModiJi's "extremism" and we are seeing that play out every day. (Incidentally, I thought that bufoon Farooq Abdullah was sick, but he seems all over on DDM puking his TSP propaganda).

Even gen. Ata Hasnanin made this point that TSP senses "victory" however delusional it might be, and hence it persists with this risky gambit. Needs no re-iteration that unless TSPA/RAPE is made to pay a big price, this will continue after a brief lull by TSP to see if their "surgical response" has unnerved ModiJi and Doval. Some deadly attacks against TSPA of the kind TTP were undertaking a few years ago, and doing to TSP what TSP does to India in its pakijabi metros like Lahore are all the kinds of cost that TSP will take notices of. The scores perishing in tribal ares, Baluchistan are not even pocket change for TSP, in fact, its a God send, they can claim we are "victim of terror" and "we have made great sacrifices" onlee will be the propaganda.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 Dec 2016 22:34

SSridhar wrote:Will respond with full force to India on LoC: Pakistan Army Chief Gen Qamar Bajwa - PTI
Pakistan's newly-appointed army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa today raked up the Kashmir issue for the first time in his address to soldiers and asked them to respond with "full force" to any ceasefire violations by India along the LoC.

"Each violation of any kind must be responded to with full force in the most effective manner," he said during a visit to the 10 Corps Rawalpindi and troops at forward locations along the Line of Control (LoC).

This statements are laughable. The cross border terrorism and movement of terrorists are cease fire violation and P army is responsible for that,

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Dec 2016 05:38

My post goes from on-topic to somewhat-OT; I beg the Mods' indulgence.

Let’s talk science!

I came across this article in Pakistan's The Friday Times, it is by one Sheikh Fayaz purporting to attack Pervez Hoodbhoy's stand on the lamentable state of science in TSP. The article itself is the usual uber-baki rubbish, using the Great Pakistani Water Car innovation as an argument that not only (or not really) actual science-guys but aam bakis like Water Car Waqar drive the advances that will change TSP into Japan.

All of this is unremarkable, given that it is TSP we are talking about.

But then I looked at the author-intro at the bottom of the article, and suddenly, the "given" was not so given, after all.

The author hails from Kupwara, a district in India-held Kashmir, and is a PhD researcher at the Centre for Studies in Science Policy, JNU, New Delhi. Recently, he co-edited a book titled ‘Informal Sector Innovations: Insights from the Global South’ for Taylor and Francis (Routledge), UK. He can be reached at [email protected].

Yes, that JNU, the bastion of intellectual accomplishment that Modi and the Hindus have been so cruelly ruining. That JNU, which produced the great political thinker Kanhiya, and houses any number of the great and the good of India.

I mean, we know what JNU is, from the general and continuous stink emanating from it, yet it is quite something to observe that the stink is not just from its pakistans, but actual, paid-up doctoral research from its highly-regarded Department of Pakiness.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Dec 2016 06:36

Baloch leader Brahamdagh Bugti asylum: Intelligence Bureau OK, MHA cautious

Something hopeful this Fridin

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 03 Dec 2016 06:50

Conversation between Burham Wani pig and his Paki god father Hafeez pig. I lost count of the number of times he said Allah this or Allah that

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/burhan-w ... topstories

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 03 Dec 2016 08:49

KLNMurthy wrote:My post goes from on-topic to somewhat-OT; I beg the Mods' indulgence.

Let’s talk science!

I came across this article in Pakistan's The Friday Times, it is by one Sheikh Fayaz purporting to attack Pervez Hoodbhoy's stand on the lamentable state of science in TSP.

The author hails from Kupwara, a district in India-held Kashmir, and is a PhD researcher at the Centre for Studies in Science Policy, JNU, New Delhi. Recently, he co-edited a book titled ‘Informal Sector Innovations: Insights from the Global South’ for Taylor and Francis (Routledge), UK. He can be reached at [email protected].

Written by a doofus who has jack sh!t knowledge about science; reinforcing our stereotypes about JNU. He knows as much about science as Kanhaiya Kumar about "African Studies". Poor Dr Hoodbhoy is like the guy with the hammer for whom every problem looks like a nail. Being a scientist, he is looking at science or rational education as a means out of the mess his country is in; and here we have this joker pulling the escaping frog back into the cesspool.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Dec 2016 10:19

Pakistan sending envoy to meet Trump team
http://www.dawn.com/news/1300180/pakist ... trump-team

WASHINGTON: The prime minister’s special assistant for foreign affairs, Tariq Fatemi, is coming to the United States this weekend to meet officials of the Trump transition team.“Besides meeting members of the transition team, Mr Fatemi will meet officials of the outgoing Obama administration,” said Pakistan’s Ambassador to the United States Jalil Abbas Jilani.US President-elect Donald Trump is scheduled to take the oath on Jan 20 but he has already set up a provisional team, encouraging foreign leaders and officials to visit his headquarters in New York for familiarisation meetings.Mr Fatemi, who is coming on a two-week official visit, is also expected to meet some members of this team and in Washington, “he will also meet new US lawmakers elected last month,” Mr Jilani told a news briefing at the embassy.“This is a very important visit as much has happened in Washington since the Nov 8 elections,” Mr Jilani said.The visit follows a telephone conversation between Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Mr Trump on Wednesday during which the US leader expressed his desire to continue a productive relationship with Pakistan.The Trump-Sharif conversation has generated much interest in the US capital where the opposition Democrats and the media are both criticising the president-elect for “talking to foreign leaders… without consulting US officials’’.On Thursday afternoon, the White House suggested that the State Department might have briefed Mr Trump before his call to PM Sharif.

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Dec 2016 10:28

The Atlantic with an article titled “Lessons From Trump’s ‘Fantastic’ Phone Call to Pakistan” by Uri Friedman. Granted the article has more to do with a hatred for US President Elect Donald Trump, less to do with a hatred for the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan and even less to do with a regard for India.

Lessons From Trump’s ‘Fantastic’ Phone Call to Pakistan : On words and meaning in international politics