Bharat Rakshak

Clearly whoever is handling their twitter accounts is bein provocative, kind of like the guys handling Pappu's twitter accounts

^^You are being too reactive. India under NaMo will deal firmly with whoever is in the saddle in Washington.

A gujarati brahman wished me "saal mubarak" a week ago in anticipation of Dipavali. Maybe Joe's in-house "India expert" is a gujju. I don't know (and don't care) what Diwali greetings are being given by American poltoos. You can find out and let us know.

Even Myalopore Mami stated “Happy Diwali and Sal Mubarak”. If she was a Gujju, I could understand, but she claims her roots are from TN. So what gives here?

You are assuming that Trump supporters who are buying his lies (not all of them) are actually interested in evidence. They will jump from one lie to another as long as it fits their version of reality. Unfortunately, this toxicity is spreading to other countries in the world.

AkshaySG wrote:As someone living in one of these big swing voter states ..Frankly the allegations and lawsuits being brought by trump are useless and they themsleves know it . (Check out what their lawyers and legal counsel are saying in courts rather than what they blab on twitter and Fox news ) ..One lawsuit after another is being thrown out Republican appointed judges and there isn't a single state where credible evidence has been found . The sharpie controversy was found to be false ..the USPS guy recanted on his story , The "dead " voters are basically just a database assigning Jan 1 1900 as defualt DOB and the fake ballots theory has been rejected in 3 states .

There may be an isolated case here and there but to take that run it as some deep state conspiracy to game the election is beyond ridiculous .

You can read the actual court fillings , lawyer's arguments and judges decisions here https://www.democracydocket.com/state/p ... t-election

The only reason Mitch and other Republican leaders are allowing Trump to have this meltdown is because it keeps his support base active and angry for Gerogia Senate runoffs and 22 midterm elections ....They know Trump still holds massive support and they need those vote bases to not be dejected .That's it

This weekend's WSJ has an article titled Harvesting the 2020 Election. It points out that expansion of mail in voting was passed in the house via H.R.1, but blocked in the senate. Regardless Covid-19 provided a means to get much of the mail in voting provisions enacted via local actions and lawsuits in the run up to the general election.

Heads I win tails you lose situation has been created to get H.R.1 through via some kind of "election reform".

^^^It was one of the earliest resolutions passed in the House in March 2019 before COVID-19. What they didn't reform was positive voter identification.

I was so mad at my grandma, who voted for Hillary in 2016, Biden in 2020 and she'll vote for whomever is the Dem candidate in 2024, that I yelled at her all night. In the morning I was so tired, I left the cemetery and got some breakfast before heading home.

Mort Walker wrote:Even Myalopore Mami stated “Happy Diwali and Sal Mubarak”. If she was a Gujju, I could understand, but she claims her roots are from TN. So what gives here?

Not sure why folks are fuming here. Diwali used to be financial new year for Hindus, especially the business community. Nothing wrong with that. In fact a lot of Hindus don’t know that our financial new year was Diwali before the Europeans *****d things for us.

^^ yes not sure what the issue is here if they wish on new year.. also remember our PM is from Gujarat... so no need to read too much into it...

Courts are ruling atleast now instead of before elections,
Governors/Secretaries over stepped their authorities to change election laws and rules.

Fraud is in-built into election system. All unsolicited ballots should be invalidated.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/califo ... ail-ballot
California judge rules Gov. Gavin Newsom overstepped authority with mail ballot order
...
A California judge has ruled that Gov. Gavin Newsom overstepped his authority when he issued an executive order requiring vote-by-mail ballots sent to all registered voters, according to reports
...

That "Saal Mubarak" greeting sounded like "Eid Mubarak" to me. Why cant people simply greet like we Telugus do - "Deepavali Subhakankshalu" or similar regional variation . That sounds sweet. or like they used to do before Urdu infiltrated Hindi - "Deepavali Shubhkamnaye". What is this Mubarak thing ? Never knew Gujjus wish Deepavali like that.

The only thing worse than using Mubarak in a Deepavali greeting is this new penchant among people like Tharoor to promoting this urdu Deepavali greeting- "jashn-e-chiraagh' . I wont be surprised if next year this greeting will be passed on by Indian leftists to US leftists and then Biden and Mami using them in their tweets and congratulations.

vimal wrote:

Mort Walker wrote:Even Myalopore Mami stated “Happy Diwali and Sal Mubarak”. If she was a Gujju, I could understand, but she claims her roots are from TN. So what gives here?

Not sure why folks are fuming here. Diwali used to be financial new year for Hindus, especially the business community. Nothing wrong with that. In fact a lot of Hindus don’t know that our financial new year was Diwali before the Europeans *****d things for us.

It is, but before that from Dhanteras, Diwali, Goverdhan Puja to Bhai Dhooj (today) has religious significance. There is NO reason to use Urdu words and this is the 2nd time Biden has used questionable language. First was in the debate where he said "Inshallah" and now "Sal Mubarak". It is virtue signaling to the Islamists saying I haven't forgotten about you. It would have been better had he said "Happy Diwali" and left it alone.

deleted

The voter harvesting reminds me of another report couple of months back, when Bloomberg and democrats raised $16mil to payoff the fines of 32000 convicted felons mostly blacks and latinos in Florida to be able to vote. That is like doling out cash during elections in India to buy votes.
Anyways inspite of that Florida was lost by democrats.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

dsreedhar wrote:The voter harvesting reminds me of another report couple of months back, when Bloomberg and democrats raised $16mil to payoff the fines of 32000 convicted felons mostly blacks and latinos in Florida to be able to vote. That is like doling out cash during elections in India to buy votes.
Anyways inspite of that Florida was lost by democrats.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Is it ?? ...I have always felt that its a travesty in US that even a small felony charge could invalidate someone of their legal voting right ... Granting people the privilege to vote and "vote buying " are not the same thing ... I'd put it more on the lines of parties in India arranging for busses and trucks to ferry villagers to poll rather than outright vote buying .The electoral college is a shit system as it is , Now if you add voter disenfranchisement on top of that and it pretty much guarantees Republicans an unfair advantage to start with .

Florida was lost because Republicans were very successful in convincing Latinos of Miami-Dade that voting for Biden = Voting for socialism ... And for those people who are mostly cubanaos even the hint of "socialism" evokes terrible memories and instills a sense of fear

Rony wrote:That "Saal Mubarak" greeting sounded like "Eid Mubarak" to me. Why cant people simply greet like we Telugus do - "Deepavali Subhakankshalu" or similar regional variation . That sounds sweet. or like they used to do before Urdu infiltrated Hindi - "Deepavali Shubhkamnaye". What is this Mubarak thing ? Never knew Gujjus wish Deepavali like that.

The only thing worse than using Mubarak in a Deepavali greeting is this new penchant among people like Tharoor to promoting this urdu Deepavali greeting- "jashn-e-chiraagh' . I wont be surprised if next year this greeting will be passed on by Indian leftists to US leftists and then Biden and Mami using them in their tweets and congratulations.

whatsapp has a ready answer

jashn e bakri kasai, then

When people like Tharoor do this, yes indeed it is a matter of concern for Indians. But why do Indians need to care a flying duck about how US officials tweet greetings that we spend time discussing it. I checked Trump's greeting, it was nicely done but obviously just something written by a staffer.

It seems like some foreign posters are making this an issue and trying impose their views on Indians. If you have an objection to "saal mubarak", just tweet back to your president-elect or whoever, and correct them. Why the duck are you going on about this here ?

Last time I checked this was "Bharat Rakshak", not "Pravasi Bharatiya Manch". Maybe the mods should start a thread for "Foreign Citizen (incl. Indian-American) Issues and Discussion" where all this can be debated?

AkshaySG wrote: ...<snip> I'd put it more on the lines of parties in India arranging for busses and trucks to ferry villagers to poll rather than outright vote buying ....<snip>

This is not correct. It is a violation of the Model Code of Conduct of the ECI:
See Question/Answer 75:
https://eci.gov.in/faqs/mcc/model-code-of-conduct-r15/

Shalabh Kumar:

https://indianewengland.com/2020/10/cha ... ald-trump/

This man seems to be a sensible individual. He and RHC supported Trump for 2016 after assurances on some key issues, which were mostly delivered. But for 2020 support, his next set of demands (immigration reform and others) were not met with assurances, so he stopped supporting. That is the way to do business with these guys, whether gadha or haathi...instead of digging oneself into an ideological hole.

He also declared (in an interview back in 2016/2017) that for him, India is a foreign country. Again a proper acknowledgement of where he stands.

Most of the conversation about what the new President (regardless of whether it would have been Trump or as it's the case now, Biden) deals with the potential for good or bad treatment from them. This is a very defensive posture not suitable to India today. We are too big and powerful to be particularly affected by anyone's benevolence or distaste. Also almost any leader will be a mixed bag, and their response is within our ability to calibrate.

This falls more within the realm of foreign policy thread, but it bears mentioning here - the views of Biden/Trump are a symptom of less than well developed ability to act and retaliate in the foreign policy front. In other words, Indian foreign policy needs to have the levers in place to test a new administration of any major country, and the ability to react punitively against their interests, in response to acts against our own.

* Some hyooman right nautanki from SD ? Reveral damaging records of corruption by some US entity.
* Actions against Indian diplomats ? Unflattering videos of US diplomats being manhandled and PNGed .
* Trade sanctions ? Tit for tat actions within hours or days.

There's a belief in nice begets nice. In the great power setting, respect is gained from demonstrated ability to cause pain and ability to calibrate that. If your approach is to hope for the other person to behave well, you're quite literally a pushover walking around with 'Kick Me' pasted to your back.

Is it ?? ...I have always felt that its a travesty in US that even a small felony charge could invalidate someone of their legal voting right ... Granting people the privilege to vote and "vote buying " are not the same thing ... I'd put it more on the lines of parties in India arranging for busses and trucks to ferry villagers to poll rather than outright vote buying .The electoral college is a shit system as it is , Now if you add voter disenfranchisement on top of that and it pretty much guarantees Republicans an unfair advantage to start with .

I agree with your opinion on small felony disenfranchisement. But this is something that has to be fixed legislatively across the states.
Paying off felons fines is wrong in itself. Added to that, doing it right before elections, with focus on blacks/latinos and in swing states is wrong (intention) and equivalent to buying votes in my opinion.

Most of the conversation about what the new President (regardless of whether it would have been Trump or as it's the case now, Biden) deals with the potential for good or bad treatment from them. This is a very defensive posture not suitable to India today. We are too big and powerful to be particularly affected by anyone's benevolence or distaste. Also almost any leader will be a mixed bag, and their response is within our ability to calibrate.

Can't agree more. At present both sides are on balance not beneficial to India. A lot of this has to do with our confidence in projecting our power as a community and country.
Like Hanuman before the Sundara Kanda we do not know our own strength. We should look to a future where they should be worrying about our support and opinions and not the other way round.

I think 'them worrying about our support' isn't really necessary. It's just that there's no need to get emotional about who's in power. What really matters is that we have enough levers with which to encourage or retaliate against someone. Biden, Trump, Ombaba, Bush... they're all going to come and go. What matters is that we have the procedures in place to respond effectively rather than bothering about whether or not any particular character wishes us well. If they do, we respond one way. If they don't, we treat them another way. Both approaches should be honed and applied without too much emotional thought.

I still need to unpack this with actual numbers of rejections. This indicates weak verification of ballot validity.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 63329?s=19
The rate of rejected Mail-In Ballots is 30 X’s lower in Pennsylvania this year than it was in 2016. This is why they kept our poll watchers and observers out of the “SACRED” vote counting rooms!
https://t.co/QPlzfimbd4

AkshaySG wrote:The electoral college is a shit system as it is ...

Why is EC a sh1t system? Just saying so doesn't make it one. Not everyone wants to live under the tyranny of CA/NY/IL ElLeLis and their vote banks.

Jay wrote:Trump's parading of low Black unemployment was because unemployment in general was low, which was a trend that started in the pervious admins. When covid hit the economy, Black's and Latino's lost more jobs as a percentage than then any other race, does he claim credit for it also.

By the middle of 2016, the growth rates started going down. That was a trend Trump reversed in the first two years itself. By the way, the credit for AA/Latinos losing more jobs is because of the lockdowns enacted by CA, NY, and MI.

KLNMurthy wrote:What I am not able to see is how the flaws in the system amount to Democrats exclusively playing the role of evil cheaters and Republicans exclusively playing the role of passive, innocent victims.

How were they so confident about 17% lead in WI and 7% lead across the board in pre-election polling? What the"impartial" media/polling organizations didn't take into account was that GOP voters would turn out in large numbers. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been a close election. I say they were expecting/encouraging cheating by Dems. They have egg on their face now just like 2016.

It is a valid question to ask: Did Beijing and Soros fund some of these efforts?

KL Dubey wrote:The final tally will be Biden 306. Trump 232. Convincing and deserved victory for Joe.

Deserved maybe. Convincing? That is what we are arguing about.

KL Dubey wrote:So, will Trump campaign fight for a re-election in NJ, or only the states where he "needs to win/has a chance to win" ? Why no lawsuit there ?

In 2000, why Al Gore went for re-counts only in certain counties? Had he opted for state wide recount, he would have won. It's Trump's privilege. He will file lawsuits where it is convenient for him. Nobody is stopping Biden from filing lawsuits selectively either.

Rejection rates was what I was talking about earlier before rhetorical questions were asked by various posters.

https://www.propublica.org/article/penn ... tion-staff

Here the claim is voters and political parties educated voters better and the US deserves to "pat itself on the back" .
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/02/us/e ... tions.html

This one is good as it has a county wise breakdown across the US with data coming from US Election Assistance Commission:
https://6abc.com/voter-rejection-rate-m ... n/7247769/

To do mail-in-ballots responsibly like was done in some states, you request your ballot from the state election commission voter portal website, based on voter ID, address and DOB. On the identification envelope you attach a copy of your driver's license, signature, or notarized stamp. Only the voter can hand deliver to county election commission with ID showing state residency (driver's license or military ID) or mail with your own stamp. Follow your ballot on the voter portal website. A progress bar shows your ballot received, in-progress, verified and counted. My family has 4 registered voters and I mailed all four ballots. I threatened the wife and kids if they don't vote Trump, then I would throw out their ballots, but they could track when ballots were mailed by state election commission, when county election commission received on 10/27, in-progress on 10/28, and counted on 11/3. No room for manipulation. We live in 2020, even Domino's Pizza has a progress bar, and this could easily be done across the country. You need positive identification for getting a gun, boarding a flight or opening a bank account. Why not for voting?

The system was gamed from the beginning in several states. Once the voter identification envelope is discarded and ballot removed, you no longer have any way of tracing this. The other issue to look at is the high number of ballots which haven't been marked for down ballot races. It defies the claim voters are better educated now. Nothing is going to come of this fraudulent elections. The Biden-Harris administration is going to direct the Justice and Treasury departments to help NY and other states jail the Trump family. The only choice now is for Republicans to cheat more creatively like the Democrats in 2022 and onward. The US is a sham democracy.

Vayutuvan wrote: Deserved maybe. Convincing? That is what we are arguing about.

Well, you got next 4 years to argue about it.

Vayutuvan wrote:

AkshaySG wrote:The electoral college is a shit system as it is ...

Why is EC a sh1t system? Just saying so doesn't make it one. Not everyone wants to live under the tyranny of CA/NY/IL ElLeLis and their vote banks.

More than the EC it is the winner takes all system. Even if you win a state by one vote you get all the EC votes in most states. This is inherently unfair. Both republican voters in solid blue states like CA/NY and Dem voters in solid red states basically never have their voices heard as far as the presidential elections are concerned. If the EC votes were divided proportionally, then both extreme left wing and extreme right wing views would have less of an influence because both sides would suddenly be trying to woo voters in all states instead of only a few.

Mort Walker wrote: No room for manipulation.

You keep saying this, but where is the manipulation? Just because something could happen, does not mean it happened.

We live in 2020, even Domino's Pizza has a progress bar, and this could easily be done across the country. You need positive identification for getting a gun, boarding a flight or opening a bank account. Why not for voting?

Boarding a flight and having a bank account are not rights guaranteed by US constitution. Coming to gun laws, its a different case of whoopass to deal and talk about which is OT for this discussion, but contrary to your point, there are states that do not need an ID for gun purchase.

The system was gamed from the beginning in several states. Once the voter identification envelope is discarded and ballot removed, you no longer have any way of tracing this.

Gamed by whom and where is the proof? Also, if Trump had not disrupted the electoral process by trying to dismantle USPS via his chosen minion DeJoy, who disrupted the mail in process to such an extent, that courts had to step in to reverse some of these decisions, all this anguish by his supports would have been avoided. You reap what you sow.

The other issue to look at is the high number of ballots which haven't been marked for down ballot races. It defies the claim voters are better educated now.

What about it? is this your first election to find out that during Presidential elections a lot of voters just do not bother to vote down ballot?

Nothing is going to come of this fraudulent elections.

That's right, and its because its not fraudulent. It's been stamped by the organizers at county/state/electoral college level, where more than half of the admins are from Republican party. It's been endorsed by courts, including Republican judges. Only people who still claim fraud are those who are within the "cult of Trump", who are entirely different from Republican/Trump voters.

The Biden-Harris administration is going to direct the Justice and Treasury departments to help NY and other states jail the Trump family. The only choice now is for Republicans to cheat more creatively like the Democrats in 2022 and onward. The US is a sham democracy.

This is more a case of self projection, which is evidenced by your own actions of threatening to create election fraud by throwing endorsed ballots of your family members.

nachiket wrote:

Vayutuvan wrote:
Why is EC a sh1t system? Just saying so doesn't make it one. Not everyone wants to live under the tyranny of CA/NY/IL ElLeLis and their vote banks.

More than the EC it is the winner takes all system. Even if you win a state by one vote you get all the EC votes in most states. This is inherently unfair. Both republican voters in solid blue states like CA/NY and Dem voters in solid red states basically never have their voices heard as far as the presidential elections are concerned. If the EC votes were divided proportionally, then both extreme left wing and extreme right wing views would have less of an influence because both sides would suddenly be trying to woo voters in all states instead of only a few.

The better way is to assign an one Elector per congressional district, but neither side is going to accept it.

Jay wrote:

Vayutuvan wrote: Deserved maybe. Convincing? That is what we are arguing about.

Well, you got next 4 years to argue about it.

Not really. If elected next month by the Electoral College, will make him an interim president. A 78 year old with cognitive disability will likely be replaced by his vice president. The only hope of re-election for Harris is more booth capturing in 2024.

Mort Walker wrote:

nachiket wrote: More than the EC it is the winner takes all system. Even if you win a state by one vote you get all the EC votes in most states. This is inherently unfair. Both republican voters in solid blue states like CA/NY and Dem voters in solid red states basically never have their voices heard as far as the presidential elections are concerned. If the EC votes were divided proportionally, then both extreme left wing and extreme right wing views would have less of an influence because both sides would suddenly be trying to woo voters in all states instead of only a few.

The better way is to assign an one Elector per congressional district, but neither side is going to accept it.

Or just divide the votes proportionately like Nebraska and Maine do. Problem is, all states need to do it otherwise the ones which have winner takes all will have a lot more importance to candidates than the ones which don't. This is how the US ended up in this situation in the first place. One by one each state changed their policy to winner takes all to one up the others. Another example of how too much federalism and giving too much power to the states ends up worsening the situation. Our system which makes sure important stuff like elections and the penal code are standardized across the country is objectively superior IMO.

nachiket wrote: Or just divide the votes proportionately like Nebraska and Maine do. Problem is, all states need to do it otherwise the ones which have winner takes all will have a lot more importance to candidates than the ones which don't. This is how the US ended up in this situation in the first place. One by one each state changed their policy to winner takes all to one up the others. Another example of how too much federalism and giving too much power to the states ends up worsening the situation. Our system which makes sure important stuff like elections and the penal code are standardized across the country is objectively superior IMO.

I agree. For many things that the US does correctly in terms of the administrative state, handling elections is done so poorly. India handles elections supremely well with the ECI. The ECI keeps exit polling out and secures all elections and discrepancies where any irregularities are caught and re-polling is done in a few polling locations. In the last 20 years, the ECI and the process has evolved to ensure Indian democracy stays intact with the sanctity of elections. The US badly needs a Model Code of Conduct. Can you imagine if this system where the states had so much authority as to what would happen in places like WB or KL? It's bad enough that state BJP members are attacked and murdered in broad daylight. States like CA, OR, WA, and NY are headed the same direction as WB and KL. Anyone who opposes the Democratic Party will lynched.

"Or just divide the votes proportionately like Nebraska and Maine do"

If that is done across the board, it will end up reflecting the popular vote %s - which makes the electoral college redundant.

It seems to me that (I've not researched this) the electoral college acts like a "safeguard" mechanism of the privileged class that can undermine the outcome of universal franchise, so that in case someone whom this class considers as a threat or undeserving is elected by popular vote, it can still be overturned. Such mechanisms have no place in a modern democracy.

Cyrano wrote:

"Or just divide the votes proportionately like Nebraska and Maine do"

If that is done across the board, it will end up reflecting the popular vote %s - which makes the electoral college redundant.

No it won't, because the EC votes are not proportionally divided between states. CA has 22 times the population of Idaho but it only has 13.75 times the number of EC votes and so on. All it will do is ensure that the choice of the minority in any state is not completely ignored by the system.

I am now very skeptical about these results changing or even getting recounted in swing states. By this time, i.e 10 days since day of election, there were court cases already filed in 2000 Bush vs Gore. Here we are at the 10 day mark and nothing is happening in the courts. Other than Trump team tweeting conjectures.. haven't seen anything that sticks in courts yet. If the courts don't accept anything by next tuesday or so, i think this is as good as done. [this is jsut based on the timelines from 2000 election].

khatvaanga wrote:I am now very skeptical about these results changing or even getting recounted in swing states. By this time, i.e 10 days since day of election, there were court cases already filed in 2000 Bush vs Gore. Here we are at the 10 day mark and nothing is happening in the courts. Other than Trump team tweeting conjectures.. haven't seen anything that sticks in courts yet. If the courts don't accept anything by next tuesday or so, i think this is as good as done. [this is jsut based on the timelines from 2000 election].

There are recounting and reaudit going on and cases have been filed or are being filed. Let's see how it goes.
Still burden of proof is with Trump side to show frauds which need not invalidate the Biden leads. Ballot-harvesting fraud that can affect ballots in scale happens outside and may not be caught in couting and some may be caught with signature and postal date verification.

Main stream media is absolutely not giving or analyzing any information which creates appearance of nothing is going on. Right-wing seems to have abandoned sharing info on Twitter/FB also other than posting silly posts.

We may need to tune to different channels to see what is going on. Only source is Trump tweets/FBs and their lawyer statements once in a while on news media.