Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 01:39

I am curious exactly what strengths is AndroidTV going to compete on? Content? Not against Amazon, Apple or even Mickey. Games? Not a chance against Sony or Mickey. Cost? Not against Roku. At least they copied the XBoxOne UI for AndroidTV not to mention large swathes of the Metro design language in Android (Metro became Material design language). I thought I would never see the day when Mickey's questionable UI tastes would get copied by Silicon Valley innovators

In general, I have a feeling Amazon is eating Chacha's lunch. FruitCo of course leads its own charmed life in its walled garden.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 26 Jun 2014 02:07

So did google announce anything new today? Also, micromax ki jai ho

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Jun 2014 02:13

From what I understand AndroidTV will be on different h/w manufacturers and embedded in smartTVs so presumably a manufacturer can take off with it. It will also be enabled with Google search. Right now various smart TV manufacturers have their own interface and s/w development for their sets, now it will be Google doing the "smart" part and they simply have to incorporate it. All the other set top boxes are external solutions which are cumbersome.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 02:27

Mort Walker wrote:From what I understand AndroidTV will be on different h/w manufacturers and embedded in smartTVs so presumably a manufacturer can take off with it. It will also be enabled with Google search. Right now various smart TV manufacturers have their own interface and s/w development for their sets, now it will be Google doing the "smart" part and they simply have to incorporate it. All the other set top boxes are external solutions which are cumbersome.

Its not about the HW or how its integrated in this case, its all about the content. So even if users get a television running AndroidTV, they will hook it up to a STB/media streamer if the content is not there. Compared to GoogleTV which was a massive failure, I don't see what is fundamentally different about AndroidTV (GoogleTV didn't fail becoz it was too cumbersome to hook up to a TV - it wasn't).

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 26 Jun 2014 02:45

The content will be applications such as Netflix, maybe even Amazon Video, games, music and so forth. If GOOG can develop apps similar to the likes of AppleTV (which really hasn't been all that successful) they may have a chance.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 03:23

Google Play is a distant third behind Amazon's store and iTunes when it comes to media content. That is AndroidTV's Achilles heel. Venturing into gaming is even riskier given the strength of the incumbents platforms.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2014 06:48

they are caught in a situation like british army in afghanistan . to do nothing and stay in camp is to be surrounded and annihilated by tribesmen. to march toward jalalabad and on to khyber exposes to numerous attacks on the column by tribesmen again.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 26 Jun 2014 07:35

I think the key is Google Now and easy access to everything in google (ex. gmail/hangouts/yout tube) that you use accessbile from anywhere and not necessarily from tablets or phones. TV and Cars in that way makes sense. What if I can share a news or open a hangout session from office to folks at home watching some soap ? The screen real estate of TV's will defintely make it possible for some neat tricks. Google has a very firm control of information flow. It remains to be seen as to how they leverage it to deliever meaningful content. I love google now for what it is even now

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2014 10:03

RB for you

sunder pichai most powerful man in mobile

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Jun 2014 10:10

Raja Bose wrote:
Marten wrote:The next dimension of growth will be found in 3D calling and holographic imaging.
Too radical. Growth comes from mundane stuff, finally done right.

We called mom last week at Bil's place on goog hangouts with video. She was happy to see our - err her grandkids' - cheheren.

Next day i called on vonage voice to her cel phone and she was went "this so better and t more convenient than y'days circus in video"

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 10:18

I have met him f2f a few times. He is a very nice guy. His main nightmare is going to be Sammy pulling the rug. Just like Chacha needs to diversify its revenue stream going forward, Android needs to diversify its HW portfolio and make sure one manufacturer doesn't have disproportionate influence. And as for Sammy, they will pull the rug - its a question of when, not if. After all, why would they want to do all the hard work, play second fiddle to Chacha and let Chacha skim off most of the cream? Its the nightmare of every platform vendor.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2014 11:51

https://www.hellonod.com/

a engr from my previous grp is one of the founders of this product co. do you think this bluetooth ring tech has a future or will be superceded by the oncoming wave of android and ios wearable watches?

vina · Post by **vina** » 26 Jun 2014 12:08

Raja Bose wrote: After all, why would they want to do all the hard work, play second fiddle to Chacha and let Chacha skim off most of the cream? Its the nightmare of every platform vendor.

Chacha gives it phor phree na ? Why pay money and effort for phree stuff that comes with an ecosystem which will be difficult to replicate ? No sir. Sammy boy aint going anywhere. Too much installed base, too high switching cost, too strong incumbents to compete against (Fruit,Chacha, and Mickey and Firefox now bringing up the tail), is there a space for a 5th ecosystem ? Don't think so.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2014 12:37

they have already abandoned tizen in their smartwatch gear range and justifiably facing heavy rejection from carriers for tizen phones. a grand total of 2 phones have been launched or planned.

there is no way in hell they can replicate the android installed base now reaching 80% worldwide and hold developer interest for apps. even msft with its far greater sw resources and dev network had a tough time initially getting developers to write apps and to some extent still does.

for some reason RB continues to support the dead dog Tizen for sentimental reasons...

vina · Post by **vina** » 26 Jun 2014 12:48

Singha wrote:for some reason RB continues to support the dead dog Tizen for sentimental reasons...

. So RB Mullah's current GHQ is Korean and he will get fed on super hot Kimchis onree thrice a day if he doesn't root for Sammy ?

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 26 Jun 2014 13:05

tizen appears to be an insurance...just in case

negi · Post by **negi** » 26 Jun 2014 14:40

The ITVTY tech side is now being driven by short term quick revenue strategists, quite a few of the old guard are now playing in the VC arena and have put money in small cloud based next big thing in data integration/analytics/social media kind of initiatives some will click some will not but the ecosystem in Bay area is so strong and self sustaining that even if the so called next big thing does not click one does not break a bank and life goes on.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 26 Jun 2014 16:04

MAC Anti-Tracking service by Apple:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mlP5wTSjfE

Can anyone throw light on how this would work? Getting dynamic MAC IDs aka DHCP IPs on configurable network address on L2?

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 26 Jun 2014 16:17

In all this talk the Bada OS quietly walks into the night, well actually waiting for Tizen, Firefox and Ubuntu to join it. WP somehow hung on with the brute force of the MS weight behind it.

Sammy without Android is like Musharraf out of power and in Pakistan for campaigning.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 26 Jun 2014 16:19

Marten wrote:If Amazon had considered WebOS earlier, we might have seen a grand alliance of Amazon, LG, HP, and finally, Sammy by now.

Considered and dropped. Guess what, they'll have to figure out the alternative. And my guess is GB will also be part of this cabal.
Might be WAYYYYYY off, but there is a big big move to gang up against GOOG.

Google commands over an unimaginable volume of information which only it has access to. Even if all these guys come up with a fantastic OS, what next ? I still remember my sammy touch phone (resistive touch - pre Android days), it could only do basic telephony, some games and basic Internet. Fast forward 6 years, take Android + google services outside of the equation, the latest s5 is just that! (granted it may have a slightly better camera, but even the old 3.2M camera was quite good actually). With Android, google has a mighty flexible platform to run all their services on. Its going to be a uphill task for an incumbent to even come with a platform, let alone the over-the-top services! Apple has the platform but services are provided by app developers and that means its never going to be as seamlessly integerated as like google. Just the other day, as I was browsing the installed apps on my Nexus 5, I realized that I had just a couple of 3rd party app's and the rest were all google's own. Rewind to Android Froyo days this definitely wasn't the case at all !!!

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 26 Jun 2014 17:19

Singha wrote:https://www.hellonod.com/

a engr from my previous grp is one of the founders of this product co. do you think this bluetooth ring tech has a future or will be superceded by the oncoming wave of android and ios wearable watches?

Hmm, the founder is a good friend of mine and classmate

It got pretty good press, not sure how many they sold it so far.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2014 17:22

javeeji does he come from the land of the meenakshi temple?

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 26 Jun 2014 17:23

Search, location services, email, Navigation/maps, online storage, office apps, Google+. What I like about Google is they try to provide use all these , consolidate and push information to you that makes a lot of sense at a particular point in time (hence the "now"]. Examples: I bought a book via amazon and amazon sent me a email about shipment. Now even before I open this email, this information (just the tracking number) appears as a card in Google now. I go on a vacation, click some snaps and come back, Google photo weaves a beautiful story around it (using geotags, dates etc) Around 5 pm a card appears magically that says "time to home, shows the map and the live traffic conditions). The way they are trying to take in lots of discrete pieces of information, process and condense it to make something useful to you, this is amazing to say the least. Now imagine what if they get more sources (and more avenues to push back) information via a TV or Car? No other company I am aware of right now can do this.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 17:37

vina wrote:
Raja Bose wrote: After all, why would they want to do all the hard work, play second fiddle to Chacha and let Chacha skim off most of the cream? Its the nightmare of every platform vendor.
Chacha gives it phor phree na ? Why pay money and effort for phree stuff that comes with an ecosystem which will be difficult to replicate ? No sir. Sammy boy aint going anywhere. Too much installed base, too high switching cost, too strong incumbents to compete against (Fruit,Chacha, and Mickey and Firefox now bringing up the tail), is there a space for a 5th ecosystem ? Don't think so.

Nothing is phree due to YumBeeAye masters. Read in the article itself about the dressing down Sammy got from Chacha for its Magazine UI.

For a free OS, people like Sammy have to pay jazziyya to Chacha for its services and while Sammy toils and earns razor thin margins on the HW mostly, Chacha earns the fat cream off the services revenue with some khota sikkas thrown Sammy's way.

People are mistaken if they think Sammy will create a new OS from grounds up. They won't as that will require a new ecosystem. What they will simply do is fork Android like Amazon and take over the services. After all Android the OS is phreee, no? That is what Sundar bhai's nightmares are made of.

The piece Sammy is missing is LBS. Now with NAVTEQ divorced from GB's handset business, its much easier for Sammy to get one. That and a willingness of top management to drill down and execute - they have the money, means and reach.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Jun 2014 17:40

chandrasekaran wrote:I think the key is Google Now and easy access to everything in google (ex. gmail/hangouts/yout tube) that you use accessbile from anywhere and not necessarily from tablets or phones. TV and Cars in that way makes sense. What if I can share a news or open a hangout session from office to folks at home watching some soap ? The screen real estate of TV's will defintely make it possible for some neat tricks. Google has a very firm control of information flow. It remains to be seen as to how they leverage it to deliever meaningful content. I love google now for what it is even now

More than anything google must solve the spam company it has become now. Its mail is full of scam, its search results are full of spam etc.,

But if they remove all of the spam, what is left of google?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Jun 2014 17:45

Marten wrote:Amazon is the only really integrated provider here.

What specific services does Google offer that cannot be replaced by other suppliers who could improve these services?
There is really a HUGE gap in my understanding of the market drivers. Apps or numbers by themselves are really not driving marketshare! Services? What are these? Enlighten, Gurus/Garus.

When I was at the Japanese like no other company in 2001-02, i proposed they do two things:
- in 2000 to Trust the phone to be the single device customers carry on them and integrate their camera/walkmans etc into that device.
- in 2003 to build good e-commerce infra around their xxxxstyle so they can be next amazon combining content, communication and services around all their product offering such as tvs, cameras, game consoles, computers, phones, movies etc.,

in hind-sight i failed as a sales person while being a visionary in "stratagizing technology strategy

"; they failed in both fields...

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 26 Jun 2014 17:54

chandrasekaran wrote:Search, location services, email, Navigation/maps, online storage, office apps, Google+. What I like about Google is they try to provide use all these , consolidate and push information to you that makes a lot of sense at a particular point in time (hence the "now"]. Examples: I bought a book via amazon and amazon sent me a email about shipment. Now even before I open this email, this information (just the tracking number) appears as a card in Google now. I go on a vacation, click some snaps and come back, Google photo weaves a beautiful story around it (using geotags, dates etc) Around 5 pm a card appears magically that says "time to home, shows the map and the live traffic conditions). The way they are trying to take in lots of discrete pieces of information, process and condense it to make something useful to you, this is amazing to say the least. Now imagine what if they get more sources (and more avenues to push back) information via a TV or Car? No other company I am aware of right now can do this.

You leave office at 5 PM?

Please report to SDRE IT-Vity folks kave caamplex for stribes.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2014 17:54

amazon has forked android and delivered a phone. I believe the nokia android phone is also a fork.

but sammy has been threatening to do so for n years and not delivered on it. in the end their cash cow android business means so less incentive to take risk and upset google.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 26 Jun 2014 19:44

Well you could say that. I shall eventually use what I believe makes my life easier

vina · Post by **vina** » 26 Jun 2014 19:57

Raja Bose wrote:People are mistaken if they think Sammy will create a new OS from grounds up. They won't as that will require a new ecosystem. What they will simply do is fork Android like Amazon and take over the services. After all Android the OS is phreee, no? That is what Sundar bhai's nightmares are made of. The piece Sammy is missing is LBS. Now with NAVTEQ divorced from GB's handset business, its much easier for Sammy to get one. That and a willingness of top management to drill down and execute - they have the money, means and reach.

Ah, the force fed hot Kimchi treatment from your current Korean GHQ seems to be having serious taqqiya effects onree

.

Isn't the money in and the cusht-o-mer lock and dollahs in the services bij onree ? Isnt that were the network effects and hence switching costs are highest , and also hence the entry barriers for anyone to get in ?

Oh, Sammy can spend money and effort and fork android and build a phone, and then what ? Search --> G Chacha again ? JooToob - G Chacha, YeeMail --> G Chacha , Social - teetar & PhacePook ..and Sammy boy left with crumbs of LBS, even if they pay a hefty packet and outbid Mickey and Phroot and acquire Navteq ?

Any Yumbee Yea will shoot down that fool's errand and tell Sammy, show me services Phusht and Money on that , laaats of it, before you fork android and shoot relationship with chacha, and give a swift kick on the Musharraf with some hot kimchi applied on it for the guys even considering that idea!

vina · Post by **vina** » 26 Jun 2014 20:00

Ok . On a more serious note. As I was leaving aaphish today, 2 young kids, just out of undergrad from a College in Karnataka, walked in and demoed something wonderful. They lifted a 3d printer they had built (roughly comes in box that will fit in a 21 in CRT tv) , and demoed it, and printed out a small intricate flower vase for me.

Costs much less than furrin imports, and works with just a single digit minute warm up and builds models in ABS plastic. Cool!

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 26 Jun 2014 20:13

vina wrote:
Ah, the force fed hot Kimchi treatment from your current Korean GHQ seems to be having serious taqqiya effects onree .

Isn't the money in and the cusht-o-mer lock and dollahs in the services bij onree ? Isnt that were the network effects and hence switching costs are highest , and also hence the entry barriers for anyone to get in ?

Oh, Sammy can spend money and effort and fork android and build a phone, and then what ? Search --> G Chacha again ? JooToob - G Chacha, YeeMail --> G Chacha , Social - teetar & PhacePook ..and Sammy boy left with crumbs of LBS, even if they pay a hefty packet and outbid Mickey and Phroot and acquire Navteq ?

Any Yumbee Yea will shoot down that fool's errand and tell Sammy, show me services Phusht and Money on that , laaats of it, before you fork android and shoot relationship with chacha, and give a swift kick on the Musharraf with some hot kimchi applied on it for the guys even considering that idea!

This where we have to give it to Microsoft. They have built a new OS from the ground. And Google is no saint; as a service provider they should try to reach out to as many people as possible. When we see the reason Google gives for not creating a Youtube or GMail app for Windows Phone, it's clear that Google is not the company it's thought to be.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 26 Jun 2014 20:16

The risk for Sammy is not "Google makes all the money" (I still fail to see how even with all the handwaving. First a digression. Does google make more money out of Android than they do out of widows PC? All google services are available in PC as well. In Android, they have the expense of developing the OS as well. Secondly wasn't there an article somewhere that google makes more money off of iOS than Android? Then why develop Android at all? Don't get started on "per handset fee". There is nothing to substantiate that claim. Yes there is a few in single digit millions for access to CTS. But that's chump change. If there were a fee, why did M$ drop pricing to zero?)

The danger to Sammy is that there is no differentiation. You buy a Sammy phone. Barring a few things, a HTC or a Motorola phone does about the same things. Soon there'll be a price war or some other innovative manufacturer like xiaomi will eat their lunch. Sammy can't prevent by forking Android. Anymore than amazon has differentiated their smartphone by forking Android.

So yes. Please go on with "Android is dying. Netcraft confirms it"

So upside for Sammy forking Android is: no differentiation. About the same money. Same risk of being commoditized. Downside is: people might stop buying Samsung phones because angry birds or whatever doesn't run on it (M$ has this problem due to perception that all apps don't run on it. Given typical things people do, all smartphone can do what people want to do. It is as pointless a debate like Mac vs PC software debate. Mac of course wins hands down in the hardware department just like iPhone does). So if you are Sammy will you kill the golden goose?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jun 2014 20:22

Btw xiaomi entry into India sales is imminent as in weeks probably.
gionee has some good kit too.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 26 Jun 2014 20:32

umm..saw a gionee phone. awesome build quality and finish. desi shops like micromax, xolo better watch out.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 26 Jun 2014 20:42

I think its not about google making money out of Android. Google monetizes the treasure trove of data about everything under the planet. For this to continue, they will need more and more of this to keep flowing in and the ability to feed this back effectively to the end user. Both Android and Chrome serve as a perfect platform for this. Why bother if Android by itself makes money ?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 20:46

vina wrote: Oh, Sammy can spend money and effort and fork android and build a phone, and then what ? Search --> G Chacha again ? JooToob - G Chacha, YeeMail --> G Chacha , Social - teetar & PhacePook ..and Sammy boy left with crumbs of LBS, even if they pay a hefty packet and outbid Mickey and Phroot and acquire Navteq ?

Any YumBeeAye with his ear to the ground would also know that Sammy has been slowly but surely creating its own services and app store ecosystem for the past couple of years. Not keeping up with the times vina mullah eh? Stop spending too much time on the Modi thread

Sammy doesn't need a grounds up OS. OS is a commodity. They will fork Android like Amazon did - there is zero effort on their part to port their own app & services, after all they already run on Android. Right now Sammy has to pay Chacha for the apps/services which go on top of Android. In return they get some revenue sharing from Chacha.

As for LBS, unless you live in a cave, that's where the lion's share of revenue for a service provider comes from. Not from e-mail, jootoob and other crumbs. Its all about location and context aware services (& ads!).

Chacha needs to ensure going forward that one Android HW partner doesn't have hugely disproportionate influence on the entire Android ecosystem. Right now Sammy is that partner and they have Chacha's balls in their hands, nice and tight. Do you think Sundar babu jumped like his pants were on fire and had multiple meetings with JK Shin recently just becoz they share the same taste in fire retardent clothing?

When Chacha brought Motor Oil and every anal-e-cyst was piously buying their BS about how it was all about patents, anybody who could spell intellectual property without a spell checker knew it was a vertical play (most of Motor Oil's patents even back then were ready for divestment). Unfortunately the entire thing got mishandled (and Rubin paid for it too). And led to some more ball squeezing from Sammy. Chacha should have bought HTC back then. Maybe even now, if not for anything but to get their testimonials released.

KrishG wrote: This where we have to give it to Microsoft. They have built a new OS from the ground. And Google is no saint; as a service provider they should try to reach out to as many people as possible. When we see the reason Google gives for not creating a Youtube or GMail app for Windows Phone, it's clear that Google is not the company it's thought to be.

Building an OS from grounds up means nothing. Otherwise Amazon wouldn't be so successful.

And when was Chacha a saint and why should Chacha be a saint? Just becoz they got some airhead consumers to buy into their "Don't be evil" PR? They are a huge for-profit publicly traded corporation - no better or worse than FruitCo or Mickey. Any steps they take is to make money directly or indirectly, philanthropic sounding PR notwithstanding. And as one of their shareholders, I demand nothing less!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 20:53

vina wrote:Ok . On a more serious note. As I was leaving aaphish today, 2 young kids, just out of undergrad from a College in Karnataka, walked in and demoed something wonderful. They lifted a 3d printer they had built (roughly comes in box that will fit in a 21 in CRT tv) , and demoed it, and printed out a small intricate flower vase for me.

Costs much less than furrin imports, and works with just a single digit minute warm up and builds models in ABS plastic. Cool!

That's a FDM machine if they are using ABS plastic filament. Impressive that they built it and demoed it but I hope you are not throwing big money at them. A few "ideal" demo prints don't cut it. In 3D printer land, you basically get what you pay for. If its cheap, its typically crap. And crap is not like its 80-90% as good as the best, its more like 20-30% as good as the best. That will obviously change as it gets commoditized but that's the reality now.

If you forget your YumBeeAye ppt-giri skills for a moment and go back to your injineering roots, you can build your own 3D printer. The principle of operation is quite simple and its doesn't require too many parts either.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 26 Jun 2014 21:02

Raja Bose wrote: Any YumBeeAye with his ear to the ground would also know that Sammy has been slowly but surely creating its own services and app store ecosystem for the past couple of years.

I can't speak for others, but had a samsung phone and have used their app store. Its a poor me too effort, pathetic to say the least. Some of the gaming apps that I downloaded wouldn't work on my phone!! (I9100g). This was their flagship when it was launched. Sammy smartly sneaked in a I9100g when I ordered a S2 (I9100 vs I9100g). I bet many people that use sammy androids don't even know that an app store exists even!

I think Sammy and almost all Android manufactures are hardware vendors at the end of day. They will come up with top notch hardware but expecting top notch software over-the-top experience is asking too much. They dont have it in their DNA

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Jun 2014 21:18

Anujan wrote:The risk for Sammy is not "Google makes all the money" (I still fail to see how even with all the handwaving.)

It's something called margin. Margin on services is much more than HW and also has much less volatility - that fundamental hasn't changed in 3 decades.

Anujan wrote: Secondly wasn't there an article somewhere that google makes more money off of iOS than Android? Then why develop Android at all?

For the simple reason that if you don't own the platform, you are dependent on somebody else for delivering your services. If tomorrow FruitCo decided to bring out a competing service and block one of Chacha's services, what is Chacha going to do except cry foul & fling anti-trust/anti-competitive lawsuits? That is why for service providers, owning the platform is important. That is why Amazon forked Android and didn't simply sign up for the Open Handset Alliance to become Chacha's buddy. This also goes back to the reason why Sammy wants to own the platform too. Becoz they want to become a service provider, not just some HW vendor who has to toil 100x to make a small differentiation which is good for 6 months onlee. As a service provider, to ensure your revenue streams are protected, you have 2 choices:
(a) If native platforms are ruling the roost, own one and make it the widest available. Sound familiar?
(b) Make native platforms irrelevant.

And comparing Chacha services on Windows to Chacha services on mobile is lahori logic. Do you lug your Windows PC around in your pocket? And if you did, Chacha would still develop Android. Why? Becoz if it wants to secure its position as a software services provider, it needs to own the platform. And if all of Chacha's services run on Windows, why develop ChromeOS and why try to leverage the Android ecosystem into ChromeOS (predicted here 2 years ago BTW

)? The answer is the same, as given above.

Anujan wrote: The danger to Sammy is that there is no differentiation. You buy a Sammy phone. Barring a few things, a HTC or a Motorola phone does about the same things. Soon there'll be a price war or some other innovative manufacturer like xiaomi will eat their lunch. Sammy can't prevent by forking Android. Anymore than amazon has differentiated their smartphone by forking Android.

Or Sammy can stop playing this game of attrition at the bottom of the barrel and move up the food chain....i.e., go from a HW onlee vendor to a services vendor like FruitCo. We are back to the original point aren't we?

Forking Android ensures they don't have a ecosystem problem like WP or WebOS. It only serves as a means to an end to own their own services platform. Plain and Zimble onlee. In fact who in their right mind would think of forking Android, without already having a services portfolio in place?

That would be tactically brilliant. Takla's Android forking strat-e-jee was a brilliant master stroke and showed the way to own the platform while not falling into the chicken and egg problem of OS and ecosystem.

Amazon's phone is not about the hardware or those gimmicky 5 cameras. Its about FireFly. Is it enough for me to buy an Amazon phone - I don't think so but it provides them a foot in the door. Its stupid to think that significant differentiation can happen at the HW level for smartphones now. This category of devices is already in commoditization mode. Hence, time for the HTCs of this world to be brought out or perish while giants like Sammy will move up the chain and cause Android management dhoti shivers. Too bad Sammy doesn't trade in the US, I would have brought their stock in a blink. They are in one super sweet spot right now. Mort should be happy.

PS: The per handset fee for Google apps very much exists for Android. The fee numbers I know first hand from a past life.