Indian Autos Thread

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by hnair »

Vina, simple: kids in India have enough sense to not jump out of running cars. they do it once and a) they get hurt b) they get hurt (by enraged parents). They know the score on that (I "learnt" once when I switched on the ignition at age 7).

People drive at slower speeds and urban collisions between cars in India are less lethal. Bikes are a different matter and hence Ratan-ji's Nano effort. Bike collisions, even at modest speeds can be lethal, particularly with this aversion to good helmets.

Kids in car front seats are scary in India. I have seen some idiots drive with a small kid on their lap. Kid apparently "feels happy" to hold the wheel. I told one such guy he is going to crush his kid to death in a collision and did not get into his car till he put the kid in the back seat.

So glad to hear Nano is the real thing and attracted a spectrum of consumers 8) awaiting to drive one....
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by vina »

HariC wrote:What is good in the US may not be good in india. Child safety is not just child seats in a car, what about scooters, motorcycles, autorickshaws ? .
No. I dont buy that. I am talking about kid inside YOUR car. My kid is safely strapped in the back in thechild seat nearly always. Once a while she whines and she sits with my wife in the back. In such occasions, while she was younger, she tried opening the doors in the back a couple of times when the car was running. Of course she got yelled at and all that, but when the kid is 3 yrs or so, she is bound to try such things and if the child lock wasn't on, the door would have opened and she probably fallen out of the car!.

The kid NEVER sits in the front seat in my car. But the moment she goes to Chennai and gets into grandpa's car, it is the front passenger seat and nothing else. She simply wont have it any other way. She kicks everyone else to the bakc seat!. It is only a question of mind and how you draw the rules. I used to get snide remarks from my in laws, when they were traveling in the car with me, oh, poor kid, "tied up like a prisoner", they wanted to hold the baby in their arms and cuddle her. :oops: . I made sure the kid used the car seat from the day she was born. She came home from the hospital safely strapped in a child seat. Mother in law was aghast, she wanted to sit in the car with the new born baby in her arms. Sorry, put my foot down on that. And I make sure that anyone who rides in my car is belted up if they are in the front passenger seat. Point is, the kid will obey you and wear the belt only if you insist everyone in the car does so. It simply wont be the case if mom and dad are not wearing belts and you insist the kid be belted up in the car seat!
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by vina »

John Snow wrote:Thanks Vina garu for first hand BRF (Our won special correspondent, OWSC) review of nano.

I have one question, can nano accomodate (Fully Loaded Desi Arriving By International Flight = FLDABIF)
Two 65'' bags loaded with 60/70 Pounds weight, two hand bags 10 Kgs and a lap top with driver plus two passengers from typical Indian air port to middle class gulley (lane) in city approx distance of 50 Kms?

TIA
Snow Garu, you cant do that in most cars in India, including my current car with two passengers. Lose those two passengers and yes, possible. However, in some models of Wagon R, Santro, Spark etc, and other cars where there is split rear seats which fold down, possible.

Best way to go is roof racks if you want 2 passengers + luggage. Yeah. When the Nano is offered up for Taxis, that will be the first thing gets fitted. Just like the racks currently in use for the Innovas and Fiat Taxis and Ambassador Taxis. For Rs 2k extra you are all set.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by putnanja »

I agree with vina. Child locks are a must. Not only is it a danger to the child itself, it is also a danger to the other vehicles/pedestrians if the door opens while in motion. And if the child/people in backseat are leaning on the door and no seatbelt, it is a recipe for disaster. And the mechanism for the childlock doesn't look like it costs much either.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Arya Sumantra »

vina wrote:Best way to go is roof racks if you want 2 passengers + luggage. Yeah. When the Nano is offered up for Taxis, that will be the first thing gets fitted. Just like the racks currently in use for the Innovas and Fiat Taxis and Ambassador Taxis. For Rs 2k extra you are all set.
No doubt people will put such a rack but considering that the Nano is lightweight with a tall boy design, the shift in Centre of Gravity after putting heavy luggage on roof top racks will be significant compared to more heavier and wider Innovas and Fiat.

Agree on the child lock significance. But since the comparisons all along have been drawn with a two wheeler, the company would say a child in lap of mother comfortably seated inside a nano is safer than a child in lap of mother seated sideways and precariously balancing herself on back seat of a bike.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Vipul »

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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Sanjay M »

Tata in Talks with Bosch to Incorporate Stop-Start Hybrid Technology into Nano

That's even better still. Instead of engines idling at stoplights or while sitting in traffic jams, the engines will turn off and only start again when needed.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Sanjay M »

vina wrote:Best way to go is roof racks if you want 2 passengers + luggage. Yeah. When the Nano is offered up for Taxis, that will be the first thing gets fitted. Just like the racks currently in use for the Innovas and Fiat Taxis and Ambassador Taxis. For Rs 2k extra you are all set.
I don't think the Nano would be too stable with loaded roof racks on top. If you look at the thing already, it's a little bit tall as it is. Putting loaded roof racks on it might make the thing vulnerable to rollover, especially given that the car's weight is an exceptionally light 600kg.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Raja Bose »

This is the vision Ratan Tata had. 8)

BTW note that the cobbler didn't go in for basic version but rather went for the LX version, just by using the money he had been saving up for a motorbike.

And to all those environmental 'activists' and nobel prize winners in India and the west: First give up your big cars and ride around for 1 year in rickety mopeds and scooters on India's streets before you open your mouth to lecture people why poor people having cars is a bad thing for the environment. :twisted:
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by sanjaykumar »

The Nano holds many lessons for India.

design-Public sector design would maximise ugliness and minimise desirability concentrating on utiltarianism. The design features are masterful. They incorporate principles of neotany-snub-nose, big eyes (headlights), small limbs (wheels). The appeal is also to the anthropomorphic relationship people form with their cars. The Nano has a derring-do attitude of the 90 lb weakling. If this were an ugly car, there would have been little or no notice of it in India or the Western press.

marketing-the price and design coupled with the hoopla has been skillfully expoited by Tata. It needs to push production to 1 million cars and start exporting even before the Indian market is satisfied. For foreign exchange and to establish cachet.

upgrades-the classic bait and switch. Reel 'em with the price and then sell 'em more features than they need.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by rachel »

You know what will REALLY take the world by storm? Even more so than Reva?

THIS SEPTEMBER: e-Indica, wiht 200 km range, to be launched in Norway!

Sadly, Tata is very mum about the price and numbers expected to be produced in the first year. BUT JUST IMAGINE: if the price comes in pretty cheap .. even 15-20k dollars ... my god, this thing is beating the VOLT by over a year.. it could sell 50,000 in the first year!

The whole planet wants something like this//// I have fingers crossed, praying they can priice it less than 20k dollars.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by vina »

Sanjay M wrote:I don't think the Nano would be too stable with loaded roof racks on top. If you look at the thing already, it's a little bit tall as it is. Putting loaded roof racks on it might make the thing vulnerable to rollover, especially given that the car's weight is an exceptionally light 600kg.
Sanjay, forget about all this talk about Nano being targeted at M800. That is only partly true. The Nano is really a dagger that has been thrown at the heart of Maruti's dominance in the A segment. The first target is of course M800, which will be history soon. The real target is the Alto! . Check it out. The Nano is WIDER than the Alto and also MORE spacious. In fact the LX version (top end) Nano is BETTER featured than the Top Alto (except that the alto has a more powerful engine). The 3 cylinder, better featured version of Nano (with ABS and maybe airbags) will wipe out Alto when it comes out soon (along with CVT transmission, diesel etc). That is the true story.

What Tata has done is basically kill Maruti in the volume A segment. The replacement Alto, called "A Star" in India is just too expensive to compete. If the govt mandates crash safety requirements in, Maruti is immediately wiped out. None of M800 , Alto, Zen Estilo or Wagon R would meet the future requirements. It is Suzuki's strategy of keeping the volumes up with legacy models with fully depreciated costs that has been picked apart by Tata. Note, that strategy was sound and would have taken some true out of the box stuff like what Tata has done to pick it apart. No conventional car could have done it.

Why are volumes important ?. Remember, volumes help spread costs and overheads over a much higher base,resulting in lower per unit price. Lose volumes and your remaining products tart becomeing expensive. Alto and M800 I think are around 20K units pe month. Remove that and you know what that will do to Maruti's overheads and costs when it is pread over the remaining volumes. Do that math and you know the true story and significance of the Nano

Also all Maruti series cars like Zen Estilo, Alto, Wagon R are Kei cars , which have a restriction in width. Now Wagon R, Chevy Spark etc all come come roof racks standard in their top end variants and seem to be stable. The Nano is shorter than the Wagon R, and I think Wider than it. Really dont see too many problems with the roof carrier.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Singha »

looking at the photos of people in showrooms, its definitely potential Alto market that
is being attacked not just m800. the other small fry like chevy spark are also under threat.

but Tata needs to smoothly ramp up production and not delay a year until delivery.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Skanda »

I forsee the small car segment in this country to be disrupted by the Nano. A lot of my relatives, who were planning to buy a small car have now put it off till they get their hands on the Nano and "get a feel" of it. Toyota was planning to introduce a small car since Corolla and Camry have lost out to the City/Civic and Accord and sales of their only bread-winner Innova is now taking a big hit. I wonder what the future holds for them.

It is also interesting how the Nano is changing perceptions of Indian drivers. Earlier, the entire family used to make a decision on buying a car. A car was for the family. Now, whenever I talk to my relatives, it turns out that the grandpa "and" grandma or the "Uncle" and "Aunty" are both planning to buy a Nano each. I am fairly certain that along with the small car segment, even the "premium small car segment" like the "Swift" will also feel the effects of the roll out. The Nano, I am thinking, has significantly altered peoples perception already. Now, "a car", is no longer a family issue; it is an individual issue.

Along with the small car, I am "atleast" happy that the second-hand car market will take a hit. I was in the lookout to buy a second-hand car a couple of months back before I settled to a new Sparky and was shocked by the atrocious prices that was being asked for a rusty Zen. Now I am quite happy to say,

"Take that suckers"
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by SaiK »

is there model pic of nano with roof top cargo racks. this is very important for a desi car to become successful.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Rahul M »

incidentally, saw a reva in the london car chase scene of the movie national treasure.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by ArmenT »

Looks like Pakis are learning misleading brandname techniques from Chinese friends onlee:
Revo - A city car
Boltoro - A 4x4
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Raja Bose »

ArmenT wrote:Looks like Pakis are learning misleading brandname techniques from Chinese friends onlee:
Revo - A city car
Boltoro - A 4x4
In 2006, Adam khel phatphati workshop has met the end reserved for true Paki Ghazis, so dont expect these two jewels of Pakistan to show up on our streets now...or ever :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by amit »

It seems Nano is not the only car that's got AmriKhans sitting up and taking notice.

While Nano is the car of today, Reva could be the car of the future.

India's electric car captures imagination

Image


Image
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Kakkaji »

This article is about the Chinese car industry, but relevant to the Indian auto industry also IMHO. This innovative Chinese company has come up with a business model that may be very relevant for India (if we can get our labour laws reformed):

Why Warren Buffet is investing in a Chinese car company
He started BYD with a modest goal: to edge in on the Japanese-dominated battery business. "Importing batteries from Japan was very expensive," Wang says. "There were import duties, and delivery times were long." He studied Sony and Sanyo patents and took apart batteries to understand how they were made, a "process that involved much trial and error," he says. (Sony and Sanyo later sued BYD, unsuccessfully, for infringing on their patents.)

BYD's breakthrough came when Wang decided to substitute migrant workers for machines. In place of the robotic arms used on Japanese assembly lines, which cost $100,000 or more apiece, BYD actually cut costs by hiring hundreds, then thousands, of people.

"When I first visited the BYD factory, I was shocked," says Daniel Kim, a Merrill Lynch technology analyst based in Hong Kong, who has been to the fully automated production lines in Japan and Korea. "It's a completely different business model." To control quality, BYD broke every job down into basic tasks and applied strict testing protocols. By 2002, BYD had become one of the top four manufacturers worldwide - and the largest Chinese manufacturer - in each of the three rechargeable battery technologies (Li-Ion, NiCad, and NiMH), according to a Harvard Business School case study of the company. And Wang stresses that BYD, unlike Sony and Sanyo, has never faced a recall of its batteries.

Deploying the armies of laborers at BYD is an officer corps of managers and engineers who invent and design the products. Today the company employs about 10,000 engineers who have graduated from the company's training programs - some 40% of those who enter either drop out or are dismissed - and another 7,000 new college graduates are being trained. Wang says the engineers come from China's best schools. "They are the top of the top," he says. "They are very hard-working, and they can compete with anyone." BYD can afford to hire lots of them because their salaries are only about $600 to $700 a month; they also get subsidized housing in company-owned apartment complexes and low-cost meals in BYD canteens. "They're basically breathing, eating, thinking, and working at the company 24/7," says a U.S. executive who has studied BYD.

This "human resource advantage" is "the most important part" of BYD's strategy, Wang says. His engineers investigate a wide array of technologies, from automobile air-conditioning systems that can run on batteries to the design of solar-powered streetlights. Unlike most automakers, BYD manufactures nearly all its cars by itself - not just the engines and body but air conditioning, lamps, seatbelts, airbags, and electronics. "It is difficult for others to compete," Wang says. "If we put our staff in Japan or the U.S., we could not afford to do anything like this."

Shortly after BYD went public, Wang did something extraordinary: He took approximately 15% of his holdings in BYD and distributed the shares to about 20 other executives and engineers at the company. He still owns roughly 28% of the shares, worth about $1 billion.

The company itself is frugal. Until recently, executives always flew coach. One told me he was appalled when he learned that Ford, which lost billions last year, had staged a gala at the Hotel George V during the Paris auto show. By contrast, the last time BYD executives traveled to the Detroit auto show they rented a suburban house to save the cost of hotel rooms.

This attention to costs is one reason that BYD has made money consistently even as it has expanded into new businesses. Each of BYD's business units - batteries, mobile-phone components, and autos - was profitable in 2008, albeit on a small scale. Overall, net profits were around $187 million. BYD, which is traded on the Hong Kong exchange, has a market value of about $3.8 billion. That's less than Ford (F, Fortune 500) ($7 billion at the beginning of April), but more than General Motors (GM, Fortune 500) ($1.3 billion).

When David Sokol toured BYD's operations last summer, Wang took him to a battery factory and explained that BYD wants to make its batteries 100% recyclable. To that end, the company has developed a nontoxic electrolyte fluid. To underscore the point, Wang poured battery fluid into a glass and drank it. "Doesn't taste good," he said, making a face and offering a sip to Sokol.

Sokol declined politely. But he got the message. "His focus there was that if we're going to help solve environmental problems, we can't create new environmental problems with our technology," Sokol says.

Sokol, author of a slim volume on management principles called Pleased but Not Satisfied, sized up Wang during that visit and decided he was an unusually purposeful executive. Sokol says, "Many good entrepreneurs can go from zero to a couple of million in revenues and a couple of hundred people. He's got over 100,000 people. Few can do that." When he got back to the U.S., Sokol told Buffett, "This guy's amazing. You want to meet him."

Even before visiting BYD, Sokol believed in electric cars. His people at MidAmerican have studied clean technologies like batteries and wind power for years because of the threat of climate change. One way or another, Sokol says, energy companies will need to produce more energy while emitting less carbon dioxide.

Electric cars will be one answer. They generate fewer greenhouse gas emissions than cars that burn gasoline, and they have lower fuel costs, even when oil is cheap. That's because electric engines are more efficient than internal-combustion engines, and because generating energy on a large scale (in coal or nuclear plants) is less wasteful than doing it on a small scale (by burning gasoline in an internal-combustion engine).

The numbers look something like this: Assume you drive 12,000 miles a year, gas costs $2 a gallon, and electricity is priced at 12¢ per kilowatt, about what most Americans pay. A gasoline-powered car that gets 20 miles to the gallon - say, a Chevy Impala or a BMW X3 - will have annual fuel costs of $1,200 and generate about 6.6 tons of carbon dioxide. Equip those cars with electric motors, and fuel costs drop to $400 a year and emissions are reduced to about 1.5 tons.

The big problem is that they are expensive to make, and the single largest cost is the battery. Manufacturing a safe, reliable, long-lasting, and fast-charging battery for a car is a complex and costly undertaking. BYD claims to have achieved a breakthrough with its lithium ion ferrous phosphate technology, but no one can be sure whether it will work as promised.

Skeptics say that BYD's battery cannot be both more powerful and cheaper than those made by competitors, and the U.S. Department of Energy has purchased an F3DM to take the battery apart. Chitra Gopal, an analyst with Nomura Securities in Singapore who follows the company closely, says BYD is betting on "entirely new technology, and the ability to produce it at scale and at a low cost remains unproven." William Moore, publisher and editor-in-chief of EV World, an electric car website, says, "They need to persuade people that they are selling a reliable, durable, quality automobile."

Even BYD's admirers say the fit and finish of the company's cars leave much to be desired. "Their cars are way behind Toyota, for sure," Sokol admits. BYD currently exports gasoline-powered cars to Africa, South America, and the Middle East, but they compete on price, not quality.

BYD's first plug-in hybrid, called a dual-mode car, is designed to run primarily on electricity, with an internal- combustion engine for backup. Two all-electric cars - the E3 and the E6 - will follow later this year. Both will be sold first in China, primarily to fleet users: the government, post office, utilities, and taxi companies, all of which will build central fast-charging facilities. Europe, with its high gas prices, is the most promising export market for BYD's electric cars. Wang signed an agreement last year with Autobinck, a Dutch dealer group, to distribute its cars in the Netherlands and five Eastern European countries.

Meanwhile, BYD researchers are on to their next big idea, a product they call a Home Clean Power Solution. It's essentially a set of rooftop solar photovoltaic panels with batteries built in to store power for use when the sun's not out, all to be designed and manufactured by BYD. "Solar is an endless source of energy," Wang says. "With better technology, we can reduce the costs."

"How did BYD get so far ahead?" Warren Buffett asked Wang, speaking through a translator. "Our company is built on technological know-how," Wang answered. Wary as always of a technology play, Buffett asked how BYD would sustain its lead. "We'll never, never rest," Wang replied.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by rachel »

This stupid article is written by dumb China-lovers. BYD is 'talking' aboout building and selling electric cars.... while Tata e-Indica WILL be selling in Norway this September.

China is junk, they are all hot air. China cannot even make toys that dont poison and kill kids.. how can they make a safe car?

BYD.. wasnt this the same company whose cars failed European crash tests so badly a few months ago.. that some say even a shopping cart would do better?

I cant wait til this stupid hoax of a nation China collapses. They make garbage, lie about their growth rates, exaggerrate their GDP... what a bunch of hot air.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by rachel »

Here are the important parts of the BYD article:

'Sony and Sanyo later sued BYD, unsuccessfully, for infringing on their patents'

INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THEFT, CHINESE COURTS FAVOR THE CRIMINALS

'BYD claims to have achieved a breakthrough with its lithium ion ferrous phosphate technology, but no one can be sure whether it will work as promised.'

LOTS OF BOASTING AND UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS

'Even BYD's admirers say the fit and finish of the company's cars leave much to be desired'
'BYD currently exports gasoline-powered cars to Africa, South America, and the Middle East, but they compete on price, not quality'

POOR QUALITY, LOW COST: TYPICAL CHINESE MODEL : 'we sell u junk, u no pay much'
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by SaiK »

While Nano is the car of today, Reva could be the car of the future.
unless a single charge can take it to 300 kms at the very least, plus easily available readily charged batteries for exchange for a discharged ones.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Arya Sumantra »

amit wrote:India's electric car captures imagination
That's the current design of Reva. The new design on the link (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-ca ... -lore.html )is even more aesthetically appealing and looks more like a real car than a tech demo prototype that the current one appears to be.

One good thing about electric car is that it shifts the responsibility of making car travel green from public to power generating companies/govurmand. The car runs on electricity, it is then the job of power generating companies to generate that using Fuel Cell/Wind/Solar/Nuclear means. Rather than having a mix of some cars running on hydrogen and going to those refuelling stations, some running on electricity and some running on convention petrol, it makes sense to have all automobiles running on electricity instead and let the utility companies sort out the means of power generation.

Some green sources like wind energy have not made sufficient inroads because per unit cost is higher than coal. If such sources are used to supply for charging points in car parks and public places i guess their costs would work out cheaper compared to petrol. Thus wind energy would become economically viable as power supply for auto charging points in parking lots.

The biggest drawback however is the charging time.
- IIRC the charging time is shorter with 3 phase power.
- With advances in battery technology charging time can be reduced and people just have to replace batteries not the car itself.
-The charging process is non-linear. About 80-90% of charging is finished within 1-1.5 hours of charging. It is the rest that takes long. If you don't care to charge batteries fully (and lose range and battery life) then it's not so much of a pain.
pandyan wrote:
rachel wrote:while Tata e-Indica WILL be selling in Norway this September.
of all places, why would tata pick norway...that too during fall. battery pack performance degrades significantly in cold weather conditions.
Because Norway is electricity surplus state and gives lot of incentives for electric vehicles.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by bart »

pandyan wrote:
rachel wrote:while Tata e-Indica WILL be selling in Norway this September.
of all places, why would tata pick norway...that too during fall. battery pack performance degrades significantly in cold weather conditions.

The electric powertrain was developed with technology/collaboration with a Norwegian company.

You are absolutely right about the effect of cold weather on the efficiency of most types of batteries, however if you look at it differently, if it proves viable in Norway it should have absolutely no problem anywhere else. Its no co-incidence that Sweden in winter is major testing ground for most new cars, including cars that are not planned to go on sale there, like the next generation Tata Safari. Also the Scandinavians probably have tax breaks and incentives etc for eco-friendly vehicles that are not matched by the Anglo-Saxons redneck cultures.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by SaiK »

India can spearhead only if drdo thinks of nano-tech batteries for the civil world, that can hold 6-10 times the charge for the same atom of charge. This was discussed here some eons back.. still we are in the same league, with some variance like li-ion.

world alsooo have moved over to li-polymers... eons back.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by rsingh »

Saw Reva on Brussels streets................ultra thin,ultra delicate mademoiselle type on driver's seat. Gave a big smile.......to both. :)
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by John Snow »

rsingh ji, will be in Amsterdam for one week on vacation, in may, want to know if I can cover some places for sight seeing as per your recomendation. Thanks please reply in Nukkad.

****
To make the above legit in this thread, the below is being added :mrgreen:
+++++
IIRC the charging time is shorter with 3 phase power
The limitation of charging is not because of Phase, but whether or not the voltaic stack can take the heat :mrgreen: without destroying the pile :mrgreen:

easy to compute amp hr rating on the battery, if the carneeds 10 amps at some 50 volts per hr it can only take that much energy while charging actually at much lower there fore the charging time will be longer. However if the pile can be (dis) connected into smaller voltage clusters (like 12v x 4 stacks = 48 volts ~ 50 volts) they could be charged in tandem.


Also note that while charging you have to convert AC to DC so technically Phase doesnt matter, but in case of phase (multiple) you can charge faster if the pile can be phyically disconnected and charged as cluster

on dc side Amps x Volts = watts = on ac side Amps x volts x power factor (of value usually 0.9) Cos Alpha of phase angle between Voltage and current drawn
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by vsudhir »

Now, Chinese automaker to rev up Singur
Six months after Tata Motors left Singur, the West Bengal government is expecting good news from China’s auto major First Automotive Works ( FAW). Top FAW officials, who have already visited the Singur site, are expected to make a formal offer to build a small car and mini truck manufacturing unit in Singur, during their visit to Kolkata next week, state industries department officers said on Monday.
...
Significantly, the Trinamool Congress, which had led a prolonged agitation in Singur ultimately forcing the exit of Nano, has not made any noise against FAW so far. The Chinese automaker has demanded only 600 acres of land in Singur, which perfectly matches Trinamool’s stand that the car factory be put up on 600 acres and the remaining 400 acres of land returned to the farmers of Singur.
Maybe it was a commie plot all along to discredit the evil capitalist Tatas and make way for the nice-non-capitalists from across the great wall...
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Rishirishi »

This article is about the Chinese car industry, but relevant to the Indian auto industry also IMHO. This innovative Chinese company has come up with a business model that may be very relevant for India (if we can get our labour laws reformed):
On the contrary. The key to developing a wealthy society is to increase the salary. This can only be done with gains in productivity and increased profit per employee.

Demechaniseing cant solves is in mu opinion a dead end.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by rachel »

Pure electric with 200 km range. The batteries are super-polymer Li ion types developed by a Canadian firm founded and headed by Indian Dr Dasgupta (firm is called ELECTROVAYA in Mississauga). Price and volumes unknown.

http://www.fandmmag.com/web/online/Indu ... way/1$2589

Miljo Innovasjon will also manufacture the electric version of Tata Motors' Indica hatchback based on Electrovaya's lithium-ion batteries. The Indica EV is a four-door vehicle designed for use on the highway with a power train designed to accelerate the car from 0 to 37 miles per hour in less than 10 seconds. The car can be driven up to 120 miles on a single charge. The Indica EV will be launched in Norway in 2009 and in India in 2010. Tata Motors hopes to tap into the burgeoning demand for electric vehicles in Europe and will position the Indica EV as a direct competitor to other cars equipped with internal combustion engines.

Electrovaya and Miljobil Grenland share a technology partnership in which the former receives equity in Miljo Innovasjon in addition to technology license fees and royalties for the use of Lithium Ion SuperPolymer batteries in the electric cars manufactured by Miljo Innovasjon. Earlier this month, Miljobil Grenland made an initial payment of $1.3 million to Electrovaya towards technology license fees for commencing production of batteries and electric cars based on the latter's technology at a new manufacturing unit in Norway. Tata Motors European Technical Centre plc, the U.K. subsidiary of Tata Motors, recently acquired a 50.3 percent equity stake in Miljo Innovasjon. This acquisition comes in the wake of Tata Motors' planned production of the Nano low-cost auto being stalled in West Bengal when the firm ran into protests with the local population against displacement and lack of adequate compensation.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by rachel »

http://agoracom.com/ir/Electrovaya/foru ... 41#message

According to Tata, the Indica will have a range of 200km (125miles) on a full charge and get from 0-60kph (0-38mph) in under ten seconds. Top speed is said to be 130kph or just a shade over 80mph.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by joshvajohn »

I really appreciate TATA's innovative and effective influence in the British public. I should say that Indian government needs to make policy towards battery cars and make sure that every city has plug points. This will be great achievement in India if cars can run on batteries.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Raja Bose »

joshvajohn wrote: I should say that Indian government needs to make policy towards battery cars and make sure that every city has plug points. This will be great achievement in India if cars can run on batteries.
Unfortunately neither feasible nor practical at present or for next few years in India. Our power grid is hopelessly overloaded as it is with power outages even in Dilli. In such circumstances, people would hardly want to depend on electricity to ensure they can get to the office the next day on time (what will you tell your boss, "My neighborhood/mohalla had a power cut hence I am late!" :oops: ) plus so many people plugging in their cars will increase the burden on our creaky grids.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Dileep »

Joshvajohn, you never been to India, did you?

Electricity is scarce, unreliable and expensive here. The only scope for EVs are what Reva is doing at Bangalore. that market is very small. Reva itself used it as a launch platform for the wider world market onlee.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Neela »

Dileep wrote:Joshvajohn, you never been to India, did you?

Electricity is scarce, unreliable and expensive here. The only scope for EVs are what Reva is doing at Bangalore. that market is very small. Reva itself used it as a launch platform for the wider world market onlee.

Reva is getting a lot of air time in Britain. Every news item related the green cars in the last week featured Reva in it.
Also heard that Tata is planning to come out with the electric version of Indigo in the UK
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by svinayak »

Dileep wrote:Joshvajohn, you never been to India, did you?

Electricity is scarce, unreliable and expensive here. The only scope for EVs are what Reva is doing at Bangalore. that market is very small. Reva itself used it as a launch platform for the wider world market onlee.
Comments keep coming in posts here like a drone and nobody will know if the person really knows the ground situation.
Lot of drone comments are posted pretending to be experts and advisors.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Surya »

Dileep wrote:
Joshvajohn, you never been to India, did you?

Electricity is scarce, unreliable and expensive here. The only scope for EVs are what Reva is doing at Bangalore. that market is very small. Reva itself used it as a launch platform for the wider world market onlee.
:)

Hmm when a person goes from the emerald island to some phoren land and then tries ot be a deshi - you are kind of disoreinted :)
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by ajit »

Interview with Dr. Clive Hickman of Tata's European Technical Centre
http://www.theengineer.co.uk/Articles/3 ... ucceed.htm

About Indica EV:
Currently nearing the final stages of development, the vehicle is expected to arrive at Norwegian showrooms this time next year and will then be rolled out across Europe. According to Hickman, Norway is the perfect place to launch an electric vehicle. Its electricity, derived from hydroelectric generation, is practically free and the widespread mains connections used to power sump heaters mean that much of the infrastructure required for electric vehicles is already in place.

There is also a pretty compelling economic case, he said: 'The Norwegian market doesn't have any indigenous product and there's a 120 per cent import duty on any car you bring into the country. So an electric vehicle, which is traditionally more expensive than a petrol car, becomes comparable in price to a conventional vehicle.'

Although thicker power cables could reduce the charging time to around 30 minutes, Hickman believes that this will not be necessary. The idea is that users will carry out their main charge late in day using off-peak energy. 'The thing about the electric vehicle in Europe is that the power-generation companies still have peak demands at around 5-6pm and we still have excess energy overnight,' he said.

'Rather than having to cycle the turbines, we may be able to help them. We could plug in our vehicles overnight and take energy at that off-peak period. At 5-6pm, if people have come home and plugged in their electric vehicle, it might be possible to actually suck the residual charge out of the battery to support the grid,' said Hickman.

It is a sign of Tata's global sensibilities that the electric car is being aimed at a European market. EVs simply would not be suitable for India, he said. 'Most of the energy generated in India is through fossil-fuel generation, so putting an electric vehicle in India only gives zero emissions at point of use. Plus we don't have enough power at the moment. There are still days where specific regions have a power-down,' added Hickman.
About Hydrogen:
One avenue of research for Indian low-emission vehicles is the development of hydrogen-fuelled internal combustion engines — something that Tata is working on with India's space agency. Hydrogen-fuelled vehicles could use the waste products from other areas of the Tata Group. 'We make a lot of steel and one of the by-products of the quenching process is hydrogen. It's about 95 per cent pure so not good enough for a fuel cell, but it is ideally suited to go through an IC engine. If we can get the technologies to capture and distribute that hydrogen, then we're well on the way to some fairly good ways of dealing with hydrogen,' he said.
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

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