Newbie Corner & Military Miscellaneous

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 29 Apr 2009 19:16

^^ Read the BR pages on the Agni. Should give you some useful information.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Apr 2009 21:40

rpraveenkum wrote:any of the Indian missile have MIRV technology? please explain & also

Indian missile defence system capable of encounter the MIRV in the enemy missile please explain

We have the proved technology and the demonstrated capability for
MIRV.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Is ... it/302749/

Isro puts ten satellites in orbit
Economy Bureau
Posted: 2008-04-29 22:34:32+05:30 IST
Updated: Apr 29, 2008 at 2234 hrs IST

New Delhi, Apr 28 : In a sign of India ‘s space ambitions coming of age, the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) created history today by successfully putting into orbit a world-record ten satellites, including the country’s remote sensing satellite and eight foreign satellites, in a single complex mission.

Defence against an incoming MIRV launch is always iffy.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 30 Apr 2009 17:59

Can someone point out the differences between Mig-23BN and a regular Mig-27?

Cross-posting:

achit wrote:Looks like my Pak message was deleted from Nukked-51 thread with other Napak messages.

I'm so happy to see a warbird (Mig-23) at my college VNIT(Old VRCE).
pic 1 pic 2
pic 3
pic 4

Does any one have better snaps?

Really confused whether it is a Mig-23BN or Mig-27?

Cheers....

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 30 Apr 2009 18:59

^One difference I have noticed is that the MiG-27 has two protruding 'tubes' on either side of the nose. The MiG-23 BN has only one on the right side. That plane in the pictures is a BN.

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 30 Apr 2009 21:42

The MiG-23 has variable intakes and a variable jet pipe while the MiG-27 has fixed ones. These are the most obvious differences (Take a close look near the intake 23BN vs 27 and at the jet pipe). If you look under the aircraft you are supposed to see the six barrelled gatling type canon under the 27 which wont be there in the 23.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 01 May 2009 01:09

Hari, if I recall correctly, the MiG-3BN had a two barrelled 23mm cannon (GSh-23?) under the fuselage, while the MiG-27 has a 30mm GSh-6-30. The latter also had a better-armoured cockpit, a strengthened landing gear, and a digital PRNK-23M navigation/attack system (The MiG-23BN had an analog system... don't remember the name)

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 01 May 2009 01:55

Mihir wrote:Hari, if I recall correctly, the MiG-3BN had a two barrelled 23mm cannon (GSh-23?) under the fuselage, while the MiG-27 has a 30mm GSh-6-30. The latter also had a better-armoured cockpit, a strengthened landing gear, and a digital PRNK-23M navigation/attack system (The MiG-23BN had an analog system... don't remember the name)

Yeah, but most of the stuff you mention cannot be easily differentiated from the outside. the guy wanted visual differences to figure out which ac is a BN and which one is not. easiest are the air intakes.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 02 May 2009 13:31

Thanks. Yeah I only wanted external differences. Cockpit armour looks the same for both types from outside.

Cheers....

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 03 May 2009 03:28

I have a question for a fighter pilot. When launching a guided bomb (lets say laser guided), my understanding is that one laser tags the ground target and the bomb, guided by laser, strikes the target. But how does one target unguided dumb bombs? I mean that they will fall in projectile motion which will depend upon a/c's speed and altitude (and somewhat upon the angle at which the a/c is positioned). So my understanding is that the bomb will not fall at the place pointed at by the bomb sight. So is there a avionics system that calculates the projectile motion and points where the bomb will fall? Or does the pilot has to consider the parameters himself and estimate the path of bomb before releasing it?
I apologize if my question is too naive but I was curious.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 03 May 2009 10:19

^^ I believe the targeting is done using the Constantly Computed Impact Point (CCIP). This displays the point of impact based on the aircraft movement, the target's movement, gravity and bomb data such as weight, drag etc. The calculated point is displayed on the HUD.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 03 May 2009 10:48

even the WW2 bomb sights were meant to do these calculations, of which the norden bombsight revolutionised (so they claim) bombing in WW2.

a bombsight is not simply a cross-hair mounted on a bombers sights.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 May 2009 21:32

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombsight

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 04 May 2009 00:47

regarding the news reports of mistrust between paki security forces and taleban in swat valley:
the taleban admitted slitting the throats of two pigs in response to security forces killing two freedom fighters.

the reporter added in the last paragraph the following:
The army, which has struggled in the field of counterinsurgency, could not keep the militants from taking control of most of the valley. It's unclear that it has the capacity to defeat the Swat Taliban now or the stomach to try.

link

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 05 May 2009 02:59

Are these BMP-3s?

The picture was taken during a rehearsal of the Day of Victory parade to be held this year.

*Added later: Never mind. I found out that its a Sprut-SD.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 06 May 2009 01:02

Anshul wrote:
ashdivay wrote:
Whos gonna pay for it ???? Indian Tax payers ? my point is we should equip IA with what Indian Tax payers can support and not what people living in foreign lands think IA should be equipped with after all they don't have to pay for it. If they want IA to dress like US mil then let them Dream about it. It aint gonna happen unless Indian Tax payers can support it. I am glad we have smarter people in our gov and Def establishment who can consider all facts before they decide what IA should be equiped with.
Ha Ha....that sounds kiddish.Imagine how man winters worth of good quality gear can be bought with the amount of money we spend on VVIP security for our dhoti wallahs.

Money my friend isn't bigger than human life.India is not a poor country dude.Wake up!We lack transparent distribution and accountability of all the Tax Payer's Money.

Executive Jets and Choppers with State of the Art Gizmos for Netas who aren't worth shit.The Indian Jawan is the most deserving candidate for receiving the Tax Payer's Money.The Jawan is the only person who gets his hand dirty and puts his life on the line for the sake of the Nation.

If my IT deductions were called National Security Tax and passed onto the Armed Forces.I wouldn't flinch a muscle.Nor would any other BRFite.

Get them good gear,get their kids schooled,get their families insured and The Jawan will be the most confident looking chap this side of the Atlantic.

Smack on the bull's eye with that.. Plus what we spend on Z+ category security for all those who don't deserve it can be re routed to a more useful purpose of buying the right equipment across the board... And this is just the spin off... not the main advantage, which is the release of qualified and trained men for actual operational use... Although i'm against exec jet point, to an extent... It should be restricted solely for cabinet ministers, PM and the President... No one else should be allowed to use them...

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 21 May 2009 11:13

I have got a question regarding the Indian artillery. I have read the Forward Observation Officers of the Artillery play a very crucial role in directing the firepower. However, precious little is written about them. Since their role involves going deep into enemy territory, are they commando-trained? They have to live off the land, they operate in small teams, and they are far away from any help.
Rather, it seems, they have more on their hands than a commando. They have to live like a commando, + they need to be have a thorough knowledge of artillery, i.e. range, firepower, etc etc.
So it seems theirs is a highly elite job.
Any info regarding this is appreciated
Thank you

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 21 May 2009 12:35

No, op officers are not commando trained.

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 21 May 2009 18:57

Since their role involves going deep into enemy territoryPlus

they dont operate behind enemy lines. They operate with the forward troops in contact with the enemy. Their job is to provide fire support - not ambush arty attacks.

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 21 May 2009 19:26

hi guys
i have one doubt..........

in 2001-2002 stand off in indian -pak border... why we suffered this much causalities....?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 21 May 2009 19:40

HariC wrote: they dont operate behind enemy lines. They operate with the forward troops in contact with the enemy. Their job is to provide fire support - not ambush arty attacks.

Yes, their job is not to ambush but from what I know they do operate behind enemy lines. At least they did so in Kargil. AFAIK they used to sneak up to peaks occupied by pakis and give info regarding position of target and accuracy of artillery fire. The team consisted of 4(I may be "slightly" wrong on this no) personnel including an artillery officer called OP officer. Of course they did not sit on top of the co-ordinates to be shelled, but reasonably close. Due to nature of the terrain, most of the times they had to pass through enemy occupied territory or reasonably close to it. Although their job was not to engage the enemy, but due to the hazard of being in enemy occupied territory, it was difficult to remain undetected. AFAIK artillery lost a lot of OP officers due to this.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 22 May 2009 12:04

Yes, I am inclined to agree with parijat. Now, i agree that thy MAY not operate "deep" withing enemy territory, but they are quite close to enemy lines. Please check the following links:-

http://indianarmy.nic.in/ota/kargilheros.html

Kindly read the citations of Captain R Jerry Prem Raj, Captain Amit Sharma and Captain Saju Cherian. Though its is not mentioned specifically, one can infer from their actions that they were pretty close to enemy lines.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defe ... apons.html

Under the heading "FROM FIRE SUPPORT TO DESTRUCTION", please check out the 5th and 6th paragraphs. The 6th paragraph also mentions "commando artillery observers".

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 22 May 2009 15:02

hi guys

i was going through the pak forum mentioned by atrea
i am really confused with their posts especially regarding the long range ballistic missiles..

they are claiming in terms of range they are far ahead of us

when i searched in net i found their shaheen has more capabilities than our counter part...

and they are claiming our agni 2 was failure thats why still not operational with army...

some experts please give some comments on these....

Srivastav · Post by **Srivastav** » 22 May 2009 15:33

^^ ill be very surprised if anybody answers you're queries jimmy. Ofcourse pakistanis claim everything theyve ever "painted green" is better than what India has. That doesnt mean it is true. They always had uber ameri-khan weaponary and look how badely they fared in each war. So i humbly request you to stop wasting youre time and asking questions here based on what our TFTA neighbors post on their forums.

Anyways let them be happy with their Chinese/N korean missiles and well keep doing what we are doing

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 22 May 2009 20:36

atreya wrote: Under the heading "FROM FIRE SUPPORT TO DESTRUCTION", please check out the 5th and 6th paragraphs. The 6th paragraph also mentions "commando artillery observers".

"Commando artillery observers" is a misleading term. Yes, arty officers sometimes have to operate behind enemy lines in small teams. They are called OP(observation post) officers. They certainly do not receive commando training nor are they considered as commandos. They may be provided with some other special training w.r.t their nature of work, but I do not know anything about this. Perhaps RayC Sir or someone else from IA can shed more light on any special training, if any, is imparted to them.

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 23 May 2009 16:50

Parijat Gaur wrote:
atreya wrote: Under the heading "FROM FIRE SUPPORT TO DESTRUCTION", please check out the 5th and 6th paragraphs. The 6th paragraph also mentions "commando artillery observers".
"Commando artillery observers" is a misleading term. Yes, arty officers sometimes have to operate behind enemy lines in small teams. They are called OP(observation post) officers. They certainly do not receive commando training nor are they considered as commandos. They may be provided with some other special training w.r.t their nature of work, but I do not know anything about this. Perhaps RayC Sir or someone else from IA can shed more light on any special training, if any, is imparted to them.

Well, that's what I felt. They may not be qualified "commandos", but they must be receiving some special training. We have heard of army, navy and air force commandos, but never "artillery commandos"!! Thanks fr clearing my confusion. As you said, RayC sir or other experienced members can give some info regarding the special training.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 24 May 2009 06:45

Just wanted to verify that I can still post!

Why are a lot of active threads abruptly terminated? Whereas a thread that has not seen any activity since last year still alive?

Is BRF under new Musaraffic management?

Seriously! where is the food & wine, nukkad, etc?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 24 May 2009 06:51

Moved to the newest forum - the General Discussions Forum

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 24 May 2009 07:07

Gerard wrote:Moved to the newest forum - the General Discussions Forum

Sorry boss! my bad, I did not scroll down the screen far enouth

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 May 2009 11:28

jimmy_moh wrote:hi guys

i was going through the pak forum mentioned by atrea
i am really confused with their posts especially regarding the long range ballistic missiles..

they are claiming in terms of range they are far ahead of us

when i searched in net i found their shaheen has more capabilities than our counter part...

and they are claiming our agni 2 was failure thats why still not operational with army...

some experts please give some comments on these....

Jimmy - there is a fundamental rule on this forum.

Pakistanis know more and are more capable than Indians. it is wrong to take information from a Pakistani forum and ask the morons on Bharat Rakshak to answer your question. Indians are inferior to Pakistanis and the worst of India gravitate to this forum.

You need to go right back to the Pakistani forum and have your questions answered there. you can quote my name and this post there. I am a well known admirer of Pakistan.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 24 May 2009 20:14

Perhaps RayC Sir or someone else from IA can shed more light on any special training, if any, is imparted to them.

Those who control artillery fire, when in defence are known as OP (Observation Post) Officers and in an attack are called FOO (Forward Observation Officer). They are as close to the enemy as the forward troops are in defence and move along with the attacking troops in an attack.

Such officers can also go behind enemy lines to direct artillery fire onto the enemy and are called Commando OPs (though this in not an official term).

The team normally consists of an officer, a radio operator, a driver and a lineman. They establish their own line to the gun end (where the guns are) so that there is instant communication without having to go through an exchange.

Infantry Officers are also trained to do the task of OP/ FOO so that in case the artillery officer is incapacitated, the infantry officer can double up as the FOO/ OP.

sum · Post by **sum** » 24 May 2009 21:42

jimmy_moh wrote:hi guys

i was going through the pak forum mentioned by atrea
i am really confused with their posts especially regarding the long range ballistic missiles..
they are claiming in terms of range they are far ahead of us
when i searched in net i found their shaheen has more capabilities than our counter part...
and they are claiming our agni 2 was failure thats why still not operational with army...
some experts please give some comments on these....

Sir, please lurk around a bit more and also go through the BR missile pages. All doubts will be clarified.

If you go about believing the Paki hot air, then Pak has the largest growth rate and GDP in the world and also, pigs can fly...

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 25 May 2009 09:33

shiv wrote:
jimmy_moh wrote:hi guys

i was going through the pak forum mentioned by atrea
i am really confused with their posts especially regarding the long range ballistic missiles..

they are claiming in terms of range they are far ahead of us

when i searched in net i found their shaheen has more capabilities than our counter part...

and they are claiming our agni 2 was failure thats why still not operational with army...

some experts please give some comments on these....
Jimmy - there is a fundamental rule on this forum.

Pakistanis know more and are more capable than Indians. it is wrong to take information from a Pakistani forum and ask the morons on Bharat Rakshak to answer your question. Indians are inferior to Pakistanis and the worst of India gravitate to this forum.

You need to go right back to the Pakistani forum and have your questions answered there. you can quote my name and this post there. I am a well known admirer of Pakistan.

sorry guys.....

i didnt mean anything like that......... it is the first time am visiting any pak forum, i just want u guys to know what that pigs thinking about us.........

rsharma · Post by **rsharma** » 25 May 2009 10:05

jimmy_moh wrote:
shiv wrote:
Jimmy - there is a fundamental rule on this forum.

Pakistanis know more and are more capable than Indians. it is wrong to take information from a Pakistani forum and ask the morons on Bharat Rakshak to answer your question. Indians are inferior to Pakistanis and the worst of India gravitate to this forum.

You need to go right back to the Pakistani forum and have your questions answered there. you can quote my name and this post there. I am a well known admirer of Pakistan.
sorry guys.....

i didnt mean anything like that......... it is the first time am visiting any pak forum, i just want u guys to know what that pigs thinking about us.........

Jimmy,
when u r on your way to some place,if u come across a pile of horse-shit on the road, do u stop to wonder what the worms wriggling in the shit think about u ??

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 25 May 2009 10:09

I think that Jimmy did not know the form of the BRF and so has in his innocence posted.

He has been informed.

Let us leave it at that.

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 25 May 2009 10:41

RayC wrote:I think that Jimmy did not know the form of the BRF and so has in his innocence posted.

He has been informed.

Let us leave it at that.

thanks

rsharma · Post by **rsharma** » 25 May 2009 10:46

^^
Didnt intend to be gross or rude to Jimmy, its JMHO that let's leave the "What The Pakis Think About Us" syndrome to JNU stylised Candle Kissers!

jimmy_moh · Post by **jimmy_moh** » 25 May 2009 11:05

rsharma wrote:^^
Didnt intend to be gross or rude to Jimmy, its JMHO that let's leave the "What The Pakis Think About Us" syndrome to JNU stylised Candle Kissers!

i understand sharma...... , but that time i was curious to know the truth from the experts in BR.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 25 May 2009 14:11

sum wrote: ....and also, pigs can fly...

Thats true, Swine Flu

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 25 May 2009 21:50

paging military/tech gurus. is this of any significance? some machinery is being transported in krachi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIu2TLhLN2Q

the vehicle is heading either due west or east. east is more likely bcoz the sky is clear. this may have been shot in the morning. and i would guess it is heading out of karachi, karachi being a port.

Tilak · Post by **Tilak** » 25 May 2009 22:18

shaardula wrote:paging military/tech gurus. is this of any significance? some machinery is being transported in krachi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIu2TLhLN2Q

the vehicle is heading either due west or east. east is more likely bcoz the sky is clear. this may have been shot in the morning. and i would guess it is heading out of karachi, karachi being a port.

Its probably a power genration unit/turbine, Siemens is petty big in Pakistan.

: Added later :

Could be this -

KESC increases generation capacity by 560MW
Thursday, May 21, 2009

KARACHI: KESC is set to aggressively deliver on its commitment to improve electricity supply for the people of Karachi, by increasing its internal generation capacity with the addition of a 560MW power plant, obtained from GE.

The contract for a 560MW of dual-fired combined cycle plant at Bin Qasim was initially signed in June 2008. Following new management’s takeover at KESC, the price was successfully re-negotiated bringing the original prices down by $15 million. The reduced package price, of $378 million will produce power at $675 perMW. This makes the project one of the most economical combined-cycle projects in Pakistan, compared to projects being constructed using the same technology and projecting prices of $800 or more per MW.

Keeping in mind the need for dependable solutions for Karachi’s electricity grid, KESC has selected the proven technology of GE’s 9E Frame Gas Turbines, manufactured in France, as well as including a Steam Turbine to provide a Combined Cycle Power Plant. M/s Harbin of China has been selected to perform Project Works and Plant Commissioning, with an advance payment of $56.6 million. The project is to be built under a fixed price formula, and will follow World Bank guidelines to ensure environmentally-friendly guidelines are met.

The plant is to be completed in four phases, with the first GT expected to be online within 24 months (May 2011), and the second and third GTs to be commissioned in June and July 2011 respectively. The Steam Turbine will be commissioned by January 2012, thereby achieving total capacity of approximately 500 MW connected to the 220 kV network through GIS.