Bharat Rakshak

This is a list of top POW Pakistani Generals, Air Marshals, Admirals and Ministers who have likely drank and enjoyed Indian tea as POWs after the 1971 war..

As can be seen, quite a few of them went on to occupy high positions...

Lest we forget...

Monday’s meeting between President Trump and Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan was meant to prioritize Afghanistan and the ongoing U.S.-Taliban talks. Instead, Trump’s clumsy handling of the meeting has ended up making it all about relations between India and Pakistan — and left New Delhi with no option but to effectively say what many others have said before: that Trump is a liar.

First, Trump boasted that he could win the 18-year-old war in Afghanistan “in a week,” a comment so absurd and ill-informed that it is unworthy of a rebuttal. Then he waded into the middle of a tenuous relationship between Delhi and Islamabad, governments that are only just emerging from the shadows of heightened tensions. He claimed that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had asked him to play the role of mediator between the two countries and offered to get involved in a bid to resolve the long-standing dispute over the Kashmir issue.

These remarks caused an immediate political furor in India, as they upended India’s long-standing position: that there is no room for a third party in the Kashmir conversation between India and Pakistan.

Yes, the United States has been among global powers that have historically intervened to pull back India and Pakistan from the brink of escalated military conflict. This month, India marked the 20-year anniversary of the 1999 Kargil conflict, which was triggered by Pakistani soldiers occupying Indian territory. Back then, as the Indian military pushed back hard, Nawaz Sharif, then-prime minister of Pakistan, came to Washington knocking on President Bill Clinton’s doors. More recently, when India’s air force struck inside Pakistan in the aftermath of a terror strike in Kashmir and friction mounted at the border, Trump tweeted about the possibility of tensions subsiding.

Yet channeling influence to avert full-scale military conflict between two nuclear-armed nations is hardly the same as claiming India asked for an international negotiating role in Kashmir, which is seen across party lines as a strictly bilateral issue. Modi may have well asked Trump to prevail upon Pakistan to rein in terror groups such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba, but it is unimaginable that he or any Indian prime minister would have offered the Americans a seat at the Kashmir dialogue table.

The Modi government, which claims nationalistic pride as its political calling card, will deny Trump’s claim. The first set of rebuttals is already out from the spokesman for India’s Ministry of External Affairs. But it shall probably require denial from even higher levels, perhaps from Modi himself. India’s parliament is in session, and this will undoubtedly be a major issue of domestic debate.

The controversy will only add to the already spiraling trade tensions between the United States and India. Nor will the Modi government be happy at the renewed focus on India and Pakistan together. Successive Indian governments have worked hard at decoupling the India-Pakistan relationship in the Western imagination. In one meeting, Trump has set back the U.S. relationship with India without having gained anything concrete for his country’s endgame in Afghanistan.

But Trump’s ignorance about South Asia — and his administration’s lack of seriousness in actually cracking down on terror groups operating on Pakistani soil — was clear before Khan even landed in Washington.

Last week, Trump tweeted about Hafiz Saeed, the Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks, in which more than 160 people were killed, including six Americans. Trump wrote: “After a ten year search, the so-called mastermind of the Mumbai Terror attacks has been arrested in Pakistan. Great pressure has been exerted over the last two years to find him!”

The embarrassing statement might have been funny were it not so tragic. Saeed was not “found.” In fact, he has lived and operated with impunity near the city of Lahore. Far from hiding, Saeed launched his own political party in the same national election that voted Khan into office. Trump’s tone-deaf comment about Saeed being the “so-called” brain behind the Mumbai strikes also ruffled feathers — not least because David Headley, a U.S. citizen and co-conspirator in the attacks, has testified in court about Saeed. Saeed has been sanctioned by the United Nations and is on its list of banned terrorists, but has reportedly remained a strategic asset of the Pakistani “deep state” in its war against India. Nor was Trump’s administration the one to apply the “pressure” on Saeed: The United States has had a $10 million bounty for information that would lead to Saeed’s conviction since 2012.

Anyone who believed that Trump’s Pakistan policy would be a bold break from the past needs to admit they were deluded. In 2017, Trump did make a blistering attack on Pakistan and said that Pakistan must “demonstrate its commitment to civilization, order, and to peace.” Speaking at the Fort Myer military base in Arlington, Va., that same year, Trump also pointed out that 20 U.S-designated terror groups were operational in Pakistan and Afghanistan, calling out Pakistan’s schizophrenic policy on terrorism. He even talked of rolling back military aid to Pakistan until it shut down terrorist organizations.

But his recent comments on Saeed — and subsequent gratuitous remarks on Kashmir — have exposed his bluster as a sham. On Monday, he said he is holding out the possibility of revoking the aid cuts. The entire episode reflects his ignorance, lack of focus and lack of consistency. And clearly, either he isn’t briefed well — or simply doesn’t bother to follow the briefing.

While all nations act from self-interest, Trump has shown not just a shortage of conviction and courage, but also a shortage of cogency in his remarks on India. It’s just one more reminder of how lacking in subtlety and stability the world’s most powerful man is.

Amber G. wrote:xpost:
Trump’s ignorance was on full display in his meeting with Imran Khan

Monday’s meeting between President Trump and Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan was meant to prioritize Afghanistan and the ongoing U.S.-Taliban talks. Instead, Trump’s clumsy handling of the meeting has ended up making it all about relations between India and Pakistan — and left New Delhi with no option but to effectively say what many others have said before: that Trump is a liar.

First, Trump boasted that he could win the 18-year-old war in Afghanistan “in a week,” a comment so absurd and ill-informed that it is unworthy of a rebuttal. Then he waded into the middle of a tenuous relationship between Delhi and Islamabad, governments that are only just emerging from the shadows of heightened tensions. He claimed that Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi had asked him to play the role of mediator between the two countries and offered to get involved in a bid to resolve the long-standing dispute over the Kashmir issue.

These remarks caused an immediate political furor in India, as they upended India’s long-standing position: that there is no room for a third party in the Kashmir conversation between India and Pakistan.

Yes, the United States has been among global powers that have historically intervened to pull back India and Pakistan from the brink of escalated military conflict. This month, India marked the 20-year anniversary of the 1999 Kargil conflict, which was triggered by Pakistani soldiers occupying Indian territory. Back then, as the Indian military pushed back hard, Nawaz Sharif, then-prime minister of Pakistan, came to Washington knocking on President Bill Clinton’s doors. More recently, when India’s air force struck inside Pakistan in the aftermath of a terror strike in Kashmir and friction mounted at the border, Trump tweeted about the possibility of tensions subsiding.

Yet channeling influence to avert full-scale military conflict between two nuclear-armed nations is hardly the same as claiming India asked for an international negotiating role in Kashmir, which is seen across party lines as a strictly bilateral issue. Modi may have well asked Trump to prevail upon Pakistan to rein in terror groups such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba, but it is unimaginable that he or any Indian prime minister would have offered the Americans a seat at the Kashmir dialogue table.

The Modi government, which claims nationalistic pride as its political calling card, will deny Trump’s claim. The first set of rebuttals is already out from the spokesman for India’s Ministry of External Affairs. But it shall probably require denial from even higher levels, perhaps from Modi himself. India’s parliament is in session, and this will undoubtedly be a major issue of domestic debate.

The controversy will only add to the already spiraling trade tensions between the United States and India. Nor will the Modi government be happy at the renewed focus on India and Pakistan together. Successive Indian governments have worked hard at decoupling the India-Pakistan relationship in the Western imagination. In one meeting, Trump has set back the U.S. relationship with India without having gained anything concrete for his country’s endgame in Afghanistan.

But Trump’s ignorance about South Asia — and his administration’s lack of seriousness in actually cracking down on terror groups operating on Pakistani soil — was clear before Khan even landed in Washington.

Last week, Trump tweeted about Hafiz Saeed, the Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorist behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks, in which more than 160 people were killed, including six Americans. Trump wrote: “After a ten year search, the so-called mastermind of the Mumbai Terror attacks has been arrested in Pakistan. Great pressure has been exerted over the last two years to find him!”

The embarrassing statement might have been funny were it not so tragic. Saeed was not “found.” In fact, he has lived and operated with impunity near the city of Lahore. Far from hiding, Saeed launched his own political party in the same national election that voted Khan into office. Trump’s tone-deaf comment about Saeed being the “so-called” brain behind the Mumbai strikes also ruffled feathers — not least because David Headley, a U.S. citizen and co-conspirator in the attacks, has testified in court about Saeed. Saeed has been sanctioned by the United Nations and is on its list of banned terrorists, but has reportedly remained a strategic asset of the Pakistani “deep state” in its war against India. Nor was Trump’s administration the one to apply the “pressure” on Saeed: The United States has had a $10 million bounty for information that would lead to Saeed’s conviction since 2012.

Anyone who believed that Trump’s Pakistan policy would be a bold break from the past needs to admit they were deluded. In 2017, Trump did make a blistering attack on Pakistan and said that Pakistan must “demonstrate its commitment to civilization, order, and to peace.” Speaking at the Fort Myer military base in Arlington, Va., that same year, Trump also pointed out that 20 U.S-designated terror groups were operational in Pakistan and Afghanistan, calling out Pakistan’s schizophrenic policy on terrorism. He even talked of rolling back military aid to Pakistan until it shut down terrorist organizations.

But his recent comments on Saeed — and subsequent gratuitous remarks on Kashmir — have exposed his bluster as a sham. On Monday, he said he is holding out the possibility of revoking the aid cuts. The entire episode reflects his ignorance, lack of focus and lack of consistency. And clearly, either he isn’t briefed well — or simply doesn’t bother to follow the briefing.

While all nations act from self-interest, Trump has shown not just a shortage of conviction and courage, but also a shortage of cogency in his remarks on India. It’s just one more reminder of how lacking in subtlety and stability the world’s most powerful man is.

State_SCA Verified account @State_SCA

While Kashmir is a bilateral issue for both parties to discuss, the Trump administration welcomes #Pakistan and #India sitting down and the United States stands ready to assist. - AGW

4:17 PM - 22 Jul 2019

chetak wrote:and they have smartly backtracked pretty damn quick.

State_SCA Verified account @State_SCA

While Kashmir is a bilateral issue for both parties to discuss, the Trump administration welcomes #Pakistan and #India sitting down and the United States stands ready to assist. - AGW

4:17 PM - 22 Jul 2019

pankajs wrote:
This one needs bland fact based rebuttal and nothing more .. BECAUSE the key to the entire episode is in OUR hands i.e. what kind of a "mediation" will it be without India agreeing to it. It can't be foisted on India.

pankajs wrote:On some issues the response needs to be forceful, on some it needs bland facts/rebuttal and some need to be ignored/greeted by silence.

This one needs bland fact based rebuttal and nothing more .. BECAUSE the key to the entire episode is in OUR hands i.e. what kind of a "mediation" will it be without India agreeing to it. It can't be foisted on India.

One Pakistani journalist finally managed to ask Trump whether he would play any role in Kashmir “where millions have been dead.” That was cue for Imran Khan to “take advantage Trump's bottomless vanity to drive a wedge between US and India on Kashmir” – as the commentator David Frum would later describe the development.

CRamS wrote:My only fault with ModiJi is his excessive sucking up to Trump and making an arse of himself and India. No doubt Indians, left, right, and center suffer from profuse colonial diseases and obsess over being seen as US's "strategic partner", but as a Hindu nationalist, I will hope ModiJi does a course correction and takes a break. Of course, US is too important and powerful to be its enemy or do anything brazen to hurt US interests. That will make the relationship even worse. Just a quiet, transactional, business-as-usual relationship. Something like that will avoid these huge diplomatic embarrassments. Dare I say that so called Kashmir 'dispute' with TSP has been infused with some gas, thx to Trump. Whatever other ignominies Taliban Khan had to endure like this video clip, but for his serendipitous achievement on Kashmir, he will be a hero back home.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1153425911749971975

CRamS wrote: Whatever other ignominies Taliban Khan had to endure like this video clip, but for his serendipitous achievement on Kashmir, he will be a hero back home.

CRamS wrote:As expected, India's opposition thugbandhan has seized on Trump's remarks ...

Jun 14, 2019 - SCO Summit: Xi Jinping offers support for improvement of Indo-Pak ties ... SCO Summit, Xi told Khan that China "supports Pakistan and India in improving their relations".

India snubs China's offer to mediate on Kashmir, says will talk to Pakistan

July 13, 2017

Rebuffing China's offer, India made it clear that they are ready to talk to Pakistan only bilaterally without the intervention of any other nation including China.

day after China today they are willing to play a "constructive role" in improving relations between India and Pakistan, the Ministry of External Affairs today rejected any third party mediation on the Kashmir issue.

"We are ready to have a dialogue with Pakistan on Kashmir under a bilateral framework," Ministry of External Affairs spokesperson Gopal Baglay. "We are ready to talk Kashmir with Pakistan, but no third party mediation."

Rebuffing China's offer, India made it clear that they are ready to talk to Pakistan only bilaterally without the intervention of any other nation including China.

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT INDIA'S STAND:

MEA spokesperson Gopal Baglay said, "Our stand is absolutely clear. You are aware that the heart of the matter is cross-border terrorism emanating from a particular country that threatens peace and stability in the country, region, and the world".

Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang had yesterday said India and Pakistan are important South Asian countries but the "situation in Kashmir has attracted the attention of the international community."

India has maintained that the Kashmir issue is a bilateral matter with Pakistan, and that there is no scope for a third party mediation. India today stuck to its position.

The Chinese comments on Kashmir aimed at getting involved in Indo-Pak tensions come at a time the armies of India and China are locked in a standoff in Doklam area in the Sikkim section.

Beijing has previously refrained from commenting on the situation in Kashmir, saying the dispute was a "leftover from history" and should be resolved by India and Pakistan.

Expressing concern over the tension between India and Pakistan, Geng said "the conflict occurred near the Line of Control of Kashmir. This will not only harm the peace and stability of the two countries but also the peace and tranquillity of the region."

"We hope the relevant sides can do more things that are conducive for peace and stability in the region and avoiding escalating the tensions and China is willing to play constructive role in improving relations between India and Pakistan," he told reporters.

The rare Chinese comments on the Kashmir issue also come two days after a Chinese analyst wrote in the state-run Global Times that a "third country's" Army could enter Kashmir at Pakistan's request, using the "logic" the Indian Army used to stop the Chinese military from constructing the road in Doklam area.

Geng's comments were in reply to a question on the tension between India and Pakistan, Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) expressing concern over the situation in Kashmir, and whether China can play role to defuse the hostility between the two countries.

According to Pakistan Foreign Ministry, the OIC Council of Foreign Ministers, who met in Abidjan, Republic of Cote d'Ivoire, passed a resolution on Kashmir.

Indian security forces have been carrying out combing operations in parts of Kashmir to clear the areas of militants supported by Pakistan who launch attacks against them.

CRamS wrote:Well, well, Trump bahadur strikes. Here was this meeting between Taliban Khan and Trump, but real fireworks will be on the airwaves in India with both US and TSP laughing. I am of course referring to Trump's claim or DDM's characterization of Trump's claim that ModiJi bent down on his knees and asked Trump for 'help' on Kashmir. And to this, Trump says he is ready to mediate. Leaving aside the absurdity of this, tells you the level of nonchalance and condescension Trump has for SDRE India knowing fully well how sensitive this issue is to India. Almost showing the middle finger to India's Lakshamn Rekha. Anyway, now you will see Congoons and an array of thugbandhan ass holes go berserk in an orgy of attack and mockery of ModiJi for this Trump claim. More sinister, it will energize TSPA/ISI/pigLeTs/KMs to keep up the pressure on India knowing that US is on their side.

MeshaVishwas wrote:Comment:I am thoroughly impressed by the selection of Baki Fauj.The mask is very very convincing.

FWIW:

SSridhar wrote:Modi would never have asked for Trump's mediation. No Indian ever would, much less Modi. Trump has taken liberty to deliberately misinterpreted any private conversation between him and Modi to suit the occasion.

As I said before, GoTUS/PoTUS have probably decided some rapprochement with Pakistan and an offer to mediate comes handy. Trump, in his usual condescension of others, decided to deliberately play mischief. GoI must take it up strongly with the US.

CRamS wrote:SSJi, I am beginning to wonder if there is any connection whatsoever between Rajnath SinghJi's statement the other day that so called "Kashmir solution is round the corner and no power on earth can stop it" and Trump's condescending offer today? Did govt of India know that POTUS was up to some mischief and came out with this statement. But then again, answering my own question, not sure how what Rajnath SinghJi said in any way helps India counter what Trump said. Both TSP and KMs must be salivating while contemptuously dismissing Rajnath Singh.

Kashi, you are right, what Trump said is usual US mischief, nothing new. Only question I have is all this strategic relationship BS that US generously talks about without anything of substance, and Indian elites get orgasms about; do the Indian interlocutors never hold US accountable on this fundamental core Indian interest? Because a fundamental component of any strategic relationship is to have a heart to heart understanding of each other's core concerns. In this case terrorism. It is very clear that not only does US not take TSP terror against India seriously, but actively encourages it through the kind of mischief we saw from Trump today. So no chaddi twist, it is a genuine concern. Our soldiers and people are dying due to this US TSP collusion.

On whether or nor ModiJi and Trump discussed Kashmir, it does seem from Trump's statement that there was some kind of discussion. Now definitely either Trump is outright lying or was pretty lose in his utterance on the mediation part, but I doubt he is just make something up about the discussion itself.

Amber G. wrote:xpost:
Trump’s ignorance was on full display in his meeting with Imran Khan

KLNMurthy wrote:

CRamS wrote:....

Now definitely either Trump is outright lying or was pretty lose in his utterance on the mediation part, but I doubt he is just make something up about the discussion itself.

Seriously, why do you doubt that Trump was making up some BS? He does that all the time.

On the other hand, you are worried that Modi or Rajnath Singh said something that made Trump say what he did. How is it that you have so much faith in Trump's truthfulness and so little in that of the Indian leaders?

KLNMurthy wrote:On the other hand, you are worried that Modi or Rajnath Singh said something that made Trump say what he did. How is it that you have so much faith in Trump's truthfulness and so little in that of the Indian leaders?

He loves deals and thinks he has mastered the “Art of the Deal.” And the deal Pakistan sucked in him into on a hot and muggy Washington afternoon was “Afghanistan exit-for-Kashmir mediation.” . . . US President Donald Trump on Monday restored Islamabad’s primacy over Kabul, saying “Pakistan is going to help us out to extricate ourselves (from Afghanistan).”

In the process, Trump threw Kabul and New Delhi under the bus while retreating from his own charges of Pakistan’s deceit and double dealing on sponsoring terrorism in the region, identifying Iran as his principal enemy and declaring (that unlike Iran) “Pakistan does not lie.” . . . “I don’t think Pakistan respected the United States. I don’t think Pakistan respected its presidents. I think Pakistan can do tremendous amount against -- with respect to Afghanistan. They didn’t do it and I don’t’ blame them because they were dealing with the wrong President. Who knows? But… they’re helping us a lot now,” the US President rambled, openly displaying pique about his predecessors and bringing it into the foreign policy sphere.

“I think they could have helped us a lot in the past. But it doesn’t matter. We have a new leader; he’s doing to be a great leader of Pakistan. And we have a new leader here. Sort of new; I’m two and half years now -- getting to be three years, can you believe it? You’re going to find time flies,” Trump rambled on. “But, no, I think Pakistan could have done a lot but they chose not to. And that’s because they did not respect US leadership.”

In fact, Trump went to far as to say Pakistan was “subversive” despite taking $ 1.3 billion in aid that he had ended, but because of him, “I think we have a better relationship with Pakistan right now than we did when we were paying that money” All that (aid) can come back depending on what we work out, he added, before he segued into the possibility of his mediation role in the Kashmir issue.

The architect of what experts reckon will be Trump’s Faustian bargain to return to power in Kabul the very forces that nurtured terrorists who attacked the US on 9/11 is said to be Senator Linsday Graham, who visited Pakistan earlier this year and appears to have persuaded Trump to change policy.

“Peace with honor and dignity in Afghanistan is only possible with the complete buy in of Pakistan. It is now time for the United States to have a strategic relationship with Pakistan, which is best achieved by a free trade agreement tied to security performance,” Graham tweeted on Monday after meeting Imran Khan ahead of the Pakistani prime minister’s White House meeting with Trump.

On Tuesday, Pakistan’s prime minister Imran Khan was all gratitude for Trump’s turnaround. “I want to thank President Trump for his warm & gracious hospitality, his understanding of Pakistan's point of view & his wonderful way of putting our entire delegation at ease. Appreciate the President taking out time to show us the historic White House private quarters,” he tweeted. The man referred to as "Taliban Khan" even in Pakistan then added: “I want to assure President Trump Pakistan will do everything within its power to facilitate the Afghan peace process. The world owes it to the long-suffering Afghan people to bring about peace after 4 decades of conflict.”

Anujan wrote:. . . and then formed the first intelligible sentence that came to his mind

US may release CSF funding for Pakistan

ISLAMABAD: Ruling out possibility of any rescheduling of foreign debt under Paris Club arrangement with the blessings of USA, Pakistan might see positive movement on release of pending funds of $9 billion from USA in shape of Coalition Support Fund (CSF). But this could only happen if truce in Afghanistan struck successfully as Washington is expecting some ‘positive outcome’ by September 2019.

Interesting sidebar. PM Imran Khan’s spouse did not accompany him to Washington DC but the Army Chief Qamar Bajwa’s wife did.