Bharat Rakshak

khatvaanga wrote:I am now very skeptical about these results changing or even getting recounted in swing states. By this time, i.e 10 days since day of election, there were court cases already filed in 2000 Bush vs Gore. Here we are at the 10 day mark and nothing is happening in the courts. Other than Trump team tweeting conjectures.. haven't seen anything that sticks in courts yet. If the courts don't accept anything by next tuesday or so, i think this is as good as done. [this is jsut based on the timelines from 2000 election].

Guide to Trump election lawsuits

It has a nice graph and everything.

I'm listing some frauds I see. Some may be relevant or not and legal or not from state to state

• Election laws and rules changing by executive side.
  Invalid registrations
  Unsolicited mail-in ballots
  Ballot Harvesting
  Ballot Harvesting of dead people
  No/poor verification of signatures
  No/poor verification of postal dates
  No proper tracking of ballot types and bins
  Allowing ballots after elections are over.
  Mixing of all ballots to avoid separation later.
  No/poor ID verification in poll stations
  Voting machines vote switching/hacking
  counting machine manipulations
  Intentional Human errors in couting
  Not allowing poll watchers

Mort Walker wrote: I agree. For many things that the US does correctly in terms of the administrative state, handling elections is done so poorly.

Overall, I think this has to do with how the US society internally functions. Too much trust is placed on an individual not to make mistakes "by design". So, even if a wrong document is submitted, they just ask for a relevant document and assume that a genuine mistake happened. I see it so many times when dealing with people or govt organizations such as DMVs etc.

I guess its only off-late with how institutions are being targeted, that the US is getting a wake-up call. They are forced to devise more stringent mechanism. Reminiscent of how the US forcefully protected borders but internally things were pretty open, no security checks etc. All of that changed post 9-11.

Overall Trump got 63mil votes last time and 72mil this time. That's a 9mil increase and accounts for 15% more than what he got last time. I see many Dems switching to Rep during the period. But still he lost.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WalkAwayCampaign/featured
In this channel there are people from all hues of life (white, black, Asian, gays) narrating their reason for transition or walkaway from Dem.

dsreedhar wrote:Overall Trump got 63mil votes last time and 72mil this time. That's a 9mil increase and accounts for 15% more than what he got last time. I see many Dems switching to Rep during the period. But still he lost.

https://www.youtube.com/c/WalkAwayCampaign/featured
In this channel there are people from all hues of life (white, black, Asian, gays) narrating their reason for transition or walkaway from Dem.

Not sure what you are trying to say.

The total number of eligible voters in USA is about 240 million right now. About 160 million voted. In 2016, about 140 million voted....20 million more people voted this time.

Even if one accounts for a 6-7 million population increase between 2016 and 2020, it is clear the vote turnout % in this election was high....people were more motivated (and more empowered because of mail ballots) to vote.

So, Trump "increasing his vote count by 9 million from 2016" is actually quite a poor show, since Biden increased the Dem vote by much more from 2016 (14 million increase, from 65 ---> 79 million). That is a 22% increase over 2016.

No use comparing total numbers of votes across elections, they don't reveal much. What counts is vote share in the individual states only. Trump failed to increase/keep his vote share in the swing states that he won in 2016.

National vote share does not even matter because of electoral college system in USA.

Compared to 2016, this time 23 million more voted or 17,8% (129 mil vs 152 mil and counting). But Trump got only 14.9% increase (73 mil) whereas Biden got 19.7% more (79 mil) compared to Hillary.

Due to unsolicited, unverified, and harvested ballots in states like CA, there was an increase of ineligible voters, who voted >85% for Biden. Vote share being reported by the media is strictly a guess. The numbers are not to be trusted whatsoever.

Without a Federal Election commission to stop voter fraud and intimidation, US democracy remains a sham.

Mort Walker wrote:Due to unsolicited, unverified, and harvested ballots in states like CA, there was an increase of ineligible voters, who voted >85% for Biden. Vote share being reported by the media is strictly a guess. The numbers are not to be trusted whatsoever.

Without a Federal Election commission to stop voter fraud and intimidation, US democracy remains a sham.

You keep peddling the same line over and over and over again. Unfortunately for you, repetition does not count as evidence.

Chris Krebs, the director of the federal government's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has been fired by Trump for debunking some voter-fraud claims. This is getting more hilarious by the minute.

America loves to lecture the rest of the world on Democracy and thinks of itself as the greatest democracy in the world. They are looking more like a banana republic themselves. I am thoroughly enjoying the schadenfreude.

At this rate there won't be anyone for Trump to fire on Jan 20, except himself, and at 12:01 pm he will fire himself and ride into the sunset on a lame horse.

nachiket wrote:Chris Krebs, the director of the federal government's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has been fired by Trump for debunking some voter-fraud claims. This is getting more hilarious by the minute.

America loves to lecture the rest of the world on Democracy and thinks of itself as the greatest democracy in the world. They are looking more like a banana republic themselves. I am thoroughly enjoying the schadenfreude.

This exposes the EVM/EVCs they sell to other third world countries are all compromised. Krebs may not want world to know and says these machines are 99.99999999...% reliable

ShyamSP wrote: This exposes the EVM/EVCs they sell to other third world countries are all compromised. Krebs may not want world to know and says these machines are 99.99999999...% reliable

It means nothing. Just exposes that nobody has any credibility left in the US. Not the media, not the politicians on either side and not even the President himself. The credibility of the other institutions is being challenged by the ruling administration every day in a bid to stay in power. Next time these goofs have an election it should be supervised by the UN like they do in some third world countries having elections for the first time ever

Raja wrote:

Mort Walker wrote:Due to unsolicited, unverified, and harvested ballots in states like CA, there was an increase of ineligible voters, who voted >85% for Biden. Vote share being reported by the media is strictly a guess. The numbers are not to be trusted whatsoever.

Without a Federal Election commission to stop voter fraud and intimidation, US democracy remains a sham.

You keep peddling the same line over and over and over again. Unfortunately for you, repetition does not count as evidence.

When voter identification envelopes are destroyed, there is no way of knowing how many ineligible voters there are. Based on rejected ballots of 2018, counties around SF and LA had over 1.5% rejected ballots. Counties around NYC had upto 36% rejected ballots, around PHL over 6%. The link was provided earlier, but if one has their blinders on, nothing can be reasoned.

nachiket wrote:

ShyamSP wrote: This exposes the EVM/EVCs they sell to other third world countries are all compromised. Krebs may not want world to know and says these machines are 99.99999999...% reliable

It means nothing. Just exposes that nobody has any credibility left in the US. Not the media, not the politicians on either side and not even the President himself. The credibility of the other institutions is being challenged by the ruling administration every day in a bid to stay in power. Next time these goofs have an election it should be supervised by the UN like they do in some third world countries having elections for the first time ever

This was the one thing about Trump, he exposed the US for what it is.

Trump needs to dismiss Gina Haspel at CIA and Christopher Wray at FBI. Both Julian Assange and Edward Snowden need to be pardoned and allowed back to the US to reveal the dirty tricks US intelligence has been conducting.

Mort Walker wrote:

nachiket wrote: It means nothing. Just exposes that nobody has any credibility left in the US. Not the media, not the politicians on either side and not even the President himself. The credibility of the other institutions is being challenged by the ruling administration every day in a bid to stay in power. Next time these goofs have an election it should be supervised by the UN like they do in some third world countries having elections for the first time ever

This was the one thing about Trump, he exposed the US for what it is.

His slogan was drain the swamp. Let's see how far this clean up goes which on the surface he seems to be doing that at visible deep state.

Instead of draining the swmap he deepened the swamp and profited from it while calling every body crooked and everything a hoax. He never was an honest businessman and now he caught the Washngton virus and became a crooked politician as well -- hang on to power no matter what.

saip wrote:Compared to 2016, this time 23 million more voted or 17,8% (129 mil vs 152 mil and counting). But Trump got only 14.9% increase (73 mil) whereas Biden got 19.7% more (79 mil) compared to Hillary.

I agree technically you and KLN Murthy are correct with the numbers. You have one view. I hold another view that inspite of incessant attacks from day one by media, intellectuals and other institutions and all manufactured incidents/narratives (racism etc) and unfortune Corona pandemic, Dems could not dent the vote block of Trump. Yes they were able to galvanize their base to vote in numbers.
From the public forums/space i generally see mostly Dems switching side to Rep but not much the other way. But that was not enough to win for Trump.
Maybe there was a huge number of Dems who did not vote last time did this time. There are new youth voters added since last 4yrs. As most youth are likely woke and products of leftist edu institutions, a significant of those went to Dems. There are immigrants especially from middle-east and muslims. And also fraud (all sorts) is very likely, only the extent we are not sure.

Trump has definitely worked to drain the swamp in weeding out the leftist ideological corrupt. If nothing, he gave a voice to the right, awakened many and strengthened them with some institutional power. Now it all depends on how far they can take and regain the narrative n institutional power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLHNz2YMnRY&t=354s
This congressional testimony by a college prof in 1950s is quite interesting and revealing. How both Dems and Reps sucked into. Wonder how deep is the rut.
Trump is a wrong guy doing the right thing. Hope the awakened sane liberal & conservatives takes it forward under a more fine and able leader.

Trump actually underperformed compared to the Republican party as a whole. The Republicans flipped seats in the House and retained theirs in the Senate. Some of them in areas where Biden beat Trump. So people voted for Biden but not Democratic candidates on the same ballot. Logical explanation of this is they disliked Trump as a person, which is understandable considering his antics, but also did not like the leftist policies of the Dem party. The Dems were having an internal war over this barely days after the results. Bill Maher has a nice video about this admonishing the Democrats for supporting the woke craziness.

All so-called bell weather counties across country except 1 are won by Trump, which indicates wide support for Trump. He didn't underperform. He did well in most places than last time with Hillary except in a few Metro cities in question such as Philly, Detroit, Atlanta where Biden way way "over performed" even Obama. May be fraud or may be people in those cities loved the sleepy old man, we need to keep open eyes to happenings.

Data analysis is coming bit and pieces so we can derive some conclusions based on 1st counting.

ShyamSP wrote:.....He did well in most places than last time with Hillary except in a few Metro cities in question such as Philly, Detroit, Atlanta where Biden way way "over performed" even Obama. May be fraud or may be people in those cities loved the sleepy old man, we need to keep open eyes to happenings. .....

Well - two can play a game. The next time democrats lose, similar delays in transition and voter suppression tactics can be employed. Sad day for the US when its President, a poor loser, cannot find the strength to gracefully transfer power. Minor discrepancies probably occur in every election and can be held up to delay results of any election. The important thing here is that the loser is doing Russia and China's job of calling the world's fairest election rigged. But to his dismay, Republican Officials (his own appointees) are vouching for the accuracy of the vote.

As little children - we learn to accept losses and not be sore losers. Sadly the current President is acting true to his 2016 statement that he would accept the election results .... if he won!. So apart from rona-dhona, nothing is going to change.
[Couch Potato] Order more popcorn (buttered) from Amazon[/Couch Potato]

So if you declare world fairest election, what can we say.

In alternative world, those who voted with all ID verification feel cheated with mail-in ballots with no signature and date verification that can be casted by any one in the world including Timbuktu.

Trump's Uvacha:
Whatever I say is the gospel truth, but what others say is always hoax
I am the most successful businessman in the Universe but my companies go bankrupt
I am richest man on earth but you cannot see my tax returns because you won't understand them as you are dumb as a donkey or a Democrat.
I always hire the most qualified and competent people until I fire them.
If you are a Republican and do not agree with what I say you are a RINO
If you are a Democrat and do not agree you must be leftist, fascist and member of Antifa
I always put America first unless my children are ahead of it.
I win elections because people love me, others win because they are rigged.

ShyamSP wrote:So if you declare world fairest election, what can we say.

In alternative world, those who voted with all ID verification feel cheated with mail-in ballots with no signature and date verification that can be casted by any one in the world including Timbuktu.

You know - wait and watch! All states called will remain as is. I think you should take a closer look at the election process - especially mail in ballots (that typically favor the Republicans). They are fair and helped win GWB the Presidential election. When they favor the other side, they're instruments of fraud!!

But we are entitled to our opinions. We should bury the Trump era tactic of demonizing someone that doesn't agree with you. Diversity of opinions makes a democracy stronger.

Trump era is not over until Electoral College results are sent to the Senate. Until then the election is in overtime. Let the court cases resolve. Democratic Party deserves to be properly counted in this election and next. When ballots can’t be traced to voter identification, there is fraud by default. It is the reason the why the ECI has 850 million registered voters with positive biometric identification.

Mortji - if you read my post above, you will notice that I not calling for Trump era to be over but to bury a nasty tactic of demonizing anyone that disagrees with your viewpoint. That is the single biggest tactic designed to activate and energize vote banks that is having the effect of polarizing entire populations. We need to turn down the temperature related to politics.

Sure thing - we continue to patiently await the certification by all states.

The only thing is - this is playing out exactly like DJT promised in 2016.

Actually, the Electoral College votes are counted in Joint Session of the Congress with Vice President Pence presiding. Until Jan 20th 12 pm Trump Sarcar is in charge. What happens at 12:01 on that day is something we have to wait and see.

Vivek ji,

Trump’s policies are sound. His rhetoric is not. The demonizing or belittling of political opponents is the only way he can get press coverage good or bad.

Let the process continue, and you’re right, results won’t change. Reason being, once identification envelopes are removed and not verified, there is no way of getting an accurate vote count. What we do know is that ballot rejection rates in MI, PA, and GA are exceptionally low by orders of magnitude compared to 2018, but there is not much any court can do. The entire US is going to turn into WB or KL if this trend continues.

A Federal Election Commission with authority is badly needed, but neither party will allow it.

saip wrote:Actually, the Electoral College votes are counted in Joint Session of the Congress with Vice President Pence presiding. Until Jan 20th 12 pm Trump Sarcar is in charge. What happens at 12:01 on that day is something we have to wait and see.

No. Joint session is on 6 Jan 2021. NARA must transmit results to the Senate President and Archivist by 23rd Dec. If that does not happen then during the joint session, the 12th amendment is the underlying authority.

See the timeline: https://archives.gov/electoral-college/key-dates

NARA could be shutdown after 11 Dec 2020 if there is no continuing resolution.

ShyamSP wrote:In alternative world, those who voted with all ID verification feel cheated with mail-in ballots with no signature and date verification that can be casted by any one in the world including Timbuktu.

Facts - Chris Krebs (epartment of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA)), appointed by DJT was fired because he stated - “There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised." His tweet says it all
"Honored to serve. We did it right. Defend today, secure tomorrow."

Chris Krebs was fired because he did what DJT had set out to do - drain the swamp and not add to it.

Alternative Facts - Term coined by DJT advisor Kellyanne Conway: Trump White House offered 'alternative facts' on crowd size. A ridiculous falsehood over an inconsequential issue.

Florida 2000 - How Bush Took Florida: Mining the Overseas Absentee Vote
From the above:

Their goal was simple: to count the maximum number of overseas ballots in counties won by Mr. Bush, particularly those with a high concentration of military voters, while seeking to disqualify overseas ballots in counties won by Vice President Al Gore.

So nothing has changed - Heads I win, tails you lose! Problem is one cannot have it both ways.

GA, Republican Official Brad Raffensperger (Secretary of State) Georgia GOP Secretary of State Says Trump's Attacks on Him Were 'Clear Retaliation' for Not Taking Sides in Election
From the above:

"They thought Georgia was a layup shot Republican win. It is not the job of the secretary of state's office to deliver a win—it is the sole responsibility of the Georgia Republican Party to get out the vote and get its voters to the polls," Raffensperger said. "That is not the job of the secretary of state's office."

Mort Walker wrote: Trump’s policies are sound. His rhetoric is not. The demonizing or belittling of political opponents is the only way he can get press coverage good or bad.

I respectfully disagree. When he attacks entire races - "Mexicans are rapists", he sets ablaze hatred of hispanic Americans. Trump has attacked and scapegoated immigrants in ways that previous presidents never have — and in the process, he has spread more fear, resentment and hatred of immigrants than any American in history. What does he achieve by this? If his goal was Comprehensive Immigration Reform then it was legislation (with both houses controlled by Republicans) and not dangerous rhetoric.

The masses look to the leader's behavior as how to behave in their communities and America's race wars have been re-kindled by DJT.

..........Reason being, once identification envelopes are removed and not verified, there is no way of getting an accurate vote count. What we do know is that ballot rejection rates in MI, PA, and GA are exceptionally low by orders of magnitude compared to 2018, but there is not much any court can do. The entire US is going to turn into WB or KL if this trend continues.

A Federal Election Commission with authority is badly needed, but neither party will allow it.

Well - GWB won FL 2000 by 537 votes in a 6 million votes cast using mail in ballots as stated in my previous post. Not one republican protested then. The problem is you cannot like it in FL 2000 and dislike it in PA in 2020.

A federal election commission will not be able to function since election laws are set by State Legislature.

Vivek K wrote:

Mort Walker wrote:A Federal Election Commission with authority is badly needed, but neither party will allow it.

Well - GWB won FL 2000 by 537 votes in a 6 million votes cast using mail in ballots as stated in my previous post. Not one republican protested then. The problem is you cannot like it in FL 2000 and dislike it in PA in 2020.

A federal election commission will not be able to function since election laws are set by State Legislature.

if elections are free and fair as claimed why would parties not allow EC in US?

IndraD wrote: if elections are free and fair as claimed why would parties not allow EC in US?

Did you read the post - In the US election laws are the domain of states. To change that is - well I'll let you help here. And, five states—Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington—hold elections almost entirely by mail. So why isn't the result in Utah being challenged? Oh wait - that's because DJT won there. Then what about Colorado?

DJT is being a sore loser. He actually did well in these elections and therefore should look at consolidating his legacy. He should strengthen his hold on the Republican party and nudge it to move along his preferred path.

Well after the 2000 election. There was a media recount FL ballots which did a statewide recount and not just of the few counties. It was found that Bush had won by a few hundred votes.

This election was very problematic due to the ways states handled the mail/cheat-in ballot system.

Well - it really is exactly a reverse of the 2000 election with the same mail in ballot system. And why isn't there a recount in Utah? Or Colorado?

And for those pinning hopes on PA - there're two things to remember
a) PA is defined as - Pittsburgh and Philadelphia with Alabama in between.
b) Rudy Guliani is leading the legal charge - the man whose advice got DJT impeached is leading this charge.

So get the popcorn out and for the first time - watch Fox News squirn - after all they called AZ days before CNN.

Election laws placed by states can not contravene federal law. It exists with voting rights act and other laws. A federal election commission is sorely needed but neither side can cheat.

The comparison to FL in 2000 is not valid as the percentage of mail in votes was so few. The other problem in FL was the punch out chad system of ballots. Mail in voting is problematic the way it is being done by several states. CA being the worst example.

UT, CO, and other states have positive voter identification. Which makes cheating more difficult.

Point is -

Criticizing the conduct of the election is fair - but

GA - Republican Sec Of State is adamant no cheating occured. Their manual recount is complete today.
PA - Rudy Guliani has stated in court that they are not talking about "voter Fraud".
Trump's Election Security Czar - He is saying even after being fired that the elections were held right.
Trump even in 2016 had said if he lost, elections would have been rigged.

So this is about a person that has had his way all his life. Born with a silver spoon and used to having his way. A person that used to call in to radio stations and "lie" about himself. A person that has declared multiple bankruptcies and not paid his fair share to support law enforcement or the military or schools or anything. At a time when his casinos were full, he declared a loss of a billion dollars.

Sad that he has reached this pinnacle with the worst moral and public character. The elections were probably rigged through gerrymandering and re-districting in 2016 to make such a person be elected the President. He lost the popular vote by 3 million votes and then created a department of the federal government to investigate electoral fraud. What was the outcome?

Does nothing in the US constitution prevent the possibility of having 2 presidents simultaneously?

JPMorgan lays out the nightmare election scenario

"All of which sets up the prospect of dueling inaugurations," Cembalest wrote, noting that this outcome was only "narrowly averted" in 1876.

Mort Walker wrote:

saip wrote:Actually, the Electoral College votes are counted in Joint Session of the Congress with Vice President Pence presiding. Until Jan 20th 12 pm Trump Sarcar is in charge. What happens at 12:01 on that day is something we have to wait and see.

No. Joint session is on 6 Jan 2021. NARA must transmit results to the Senate President and Archivist by 23rd Dec. If that does not happen then during the joint session, the 12th amendment is the underlying authority.

See the timeline: https://archives.gov/electoral-college/key-dates

NARA could be shutdown after 11 Dec 2020 if there is no continuing resolution.

God forbid if 12th Amendment should come into play. Right now Biden has 25 and Trump has 25 votes. Washington DC, Biden won; but can they vote? Another problem, quorum. 2/3rds. If either of the parties abstain then no Quorum. If no President till March 4, then new VP (and not old VP as his term ends on Jan 20th) will become the President ( the terms of present President and VP end on Jan 20th - 20th amendment). How to elect the new VP? It is the new Senate. It could be dead locked. Again quorum - 2/3rds. Even if Republicans are 52 (winning both GA seats) and Dems abstain, no quorum. So if there are no President or the VP on 20th Jan, then Pelosi is the President. She is already elected as the Dem leader and will be the speaker on Jan 3rd. But not so fast. If Dem Reps get a whiff that they can become President through back door, there will be free for all. Lots of ifs and buts. Let us hope it does not come to that.

Vivek K wrote:

IndraD wrote: if elections are free and fair as claimed why would parties not allow EC in US?

Did you read the post - In the US election laws are the domain of states. To change that is - well I'll let you help here. And, five states—Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington—hold elections almost entirely by mail. So why isn't the result in Utah being challenged? Oh wait - that's because DJT won there. Then what about Colorado?

DJT is being a sore loser. He actually did well in these elections and therefore should look at consolidating his legacy. He should strengthen his hold on the Republican party and nudge it to move along his preferred path.

you can say same thing without condescending.
Even on whatsapp groups & SM I notice Demos supporters are over the top and quarrelsome, trying to rub it in.
If the results are legit (doesn't look like), then hold tight, courts will do something. Peace.