India's Border Security with China and Pakistan-2020

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Sep 2020 13:25

vimal wrote:While capturing the heights is a good step, I'm still wondering how IA will sustain the operation at those heights? Are soldiers rotated or do they stay there all the time and other things like encampments.

issue is not abt sustaining..we can ..only that there is a economic impact... do we have an option? this will kind of define LAC for times to come. 1) i hope this spurs greater domestic MIC ... 2) india forges closer alliance with QUAD etc and together with other countries hurts chini interests across the world. 3) ofc soldiers are rotated ( could be anything from 3 to 4 month stints) ... encampments remain. Why should encampments be rotated??

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 03 Sep 2020 13:35

I'm thinking from a human perspective. How the cold and dry climate at those heights that can sap everything out of you pretty soon. Chinese have well built structures I hope India builds strong and safe amenities quickly there too. Also, remember winter is just a month away.

AdityaVM · Post by **AdityaVM** » 03 Sep 2020 13:38

I have been browsing some cheen chat forums in mandarin and using Google translate to make sense of what they were saying when this gem of a thread popped out .

The idiots think they can steamroll Indian army and occupy all of northeast upto the Indian Ocean inorder to have access to Indian Ocean directly from what would then be Chinese territory without depending on any other country.

The level of delusions in that thread have to be seen to be believed. Intact that entire main page is a gold mine for understanding Cheen piskology.

Above thread link
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=view ... 1&mobile=2

Main page link
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=foru ... 1&mobile=2

Screenshots I have taken of the main post are not loading on BR for some reason. Can gurus please help. ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2020 13:41

Yes,we need the best designed and available high alt.structures for our troops,with all mod consfor living in such inhospitable conditions.Arctic and Alpine clothing and infra commonly available in Europe will have to survive the high Himalayas.Perhaps a new class " Himalayan", has to be introduced. One of my friends is a fantastic mountaineer and photographer,whose climbed many Himalayan peaks,incl.Everest I think.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 13:43

manjgu wrote:
ManuJ wrote: Not Finger-4 as per TOI, which makes sense.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/ind ... 900336.cms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3umUQ-VTS6g&t=26s ..gen diwedi is referring to this height/position...not clear apart from looking into f4 towards f8 where else does it look into...some pass whose name ( from gen diwedi) which i am unable to catch

From what I understand .. Starting @ 1:57] what the General is saying is that our capture of Black top has neutralized the Chinese advantage on the north bank of Pangang tso BECAUSE there is a height on F4 that dominates <<f2-8/something>> AND "Ane La" which we COULD have used to cut off the Chinese <<at IB/Fort area and trapping the Chinese in the middle>> ... Now we have squared up the game.

So "this" height he is referring to is the Black top <<or something near>> that allows us to "negate" the advantage that occupation of F4 and a specific location on F4 allowed the Chinese.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Sep 2020 13:48

AdityaVM wrote:I have been browsing some cheen chat forums in mandarin and using Google translate to make sense of what they were saying when this gem of a thread popped out .

The idiots think they can steamroll Indian army and occupy all of northeast upto the Indian Ocean inorder to have access to Indian Ocean directly from what would then be Chinese territory without depending on any other country.

The level of delusions in that thread have to be seen to be believed. Intact that entire main page is a gold mine for understanding Cheen piskology.

Above thread link
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=view ... 1&mobile=2

Main page link
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=foru ... 1&mobile=2

Screenshots I have taken of the main post are not loading on BR for some reason. Can gurus please help. ?

Its across all countries, even this forum where it varies from Dhoti Shivering, rubbish 1000km occupation to lets occupy Tibet without the overwhelming Weaponry or logistics backup.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 13:50

AdityaVM wrote:I have been browsing some cheen chat forums in mandarin and using Google translate to make sense of what they were saying when this gem of a thread popped out .

The idiots think they can steamroll Indian army and occupy all of northeast upto the Indian Ocean inorder to have access to Indian Ocean directly from what would then be Chinese territory without depending on any other country.

The level of delusions in that thread have to be seen to be believed. Intact that entire main page is a gold mine for understanding Cheen piskology.

Above thread link
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=view ... 1&mobile=2

Main page link
https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=foru ... 1&mobile=2

They should ask Xi why China has spent so much on BRI/Maritime BRI/String of pearls when all China needed was to streamroll India up to the Bay of Bengal via Chumbi valley.

They should ask Xi personally for a refund.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 13:57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V8KYFu-_yU
India-China Faceoff: Why Beijing Is So Angry? | India Today Exclusive

nam · Post by **nam** » 03 Sep 2020 13:58

SSridhar wrote:ers may be protecting their backsides by shifting blame on Beijing because they could face potential death sentence, by law, for conceding 'Chinese territory'.

It is possible, however both WTC & Bejing must have known, such a move by us is possible. After all it is 3400 KM long and not guarded everywhere. We have to having meetings after meetings. Even now the PLA is not yielding..

Some of the things about this affairs are beyond logic. The Chinese seems to be ready to sacrifice their relation with us for a piece of land, that they already access to and is not really worth much.

Either the Chinese stragetic thinkers are a clueless bunch or they genuinely believe India is not a threat and PLA ca do as they want. However all the action has been by PLA, while Bejing has not really retaliated heavily on the economic sanctions we have doing. I feel Beijing thinks they can roll the sanctions back by some "informal summits".

Looks like relation with us has been taken over by PLA..

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Sep 2020 14:11

g.sarkar wrote:
Suraj wrote:How does US intelligence establish things like “ Beijing remains enraged that its local commander withdrew forces when a physical conflict appeared imminent, ” Not saying they’re wrong, but assuming they are correct, it implies they have espionage resources that are able to intercept internal PLA communication of this kind. Do we have the ability to intercept secure PLA radio traffic too ?
Surajji, the US is spending gazillions on intelligence every year. 2019 they spent more than 81 billion, even if a lot is wasted, we can assume a good percentage is giving good returns. The total Indian defense budget for 2019 is less than that.
Gautam

given that everyone and their uncles are monitoring han communications in the area it should not come as a surprise.

it should not be difficult to interpret and confirm multiple sources of electronic transmissions. At this time, we have interested friendlies in both the US and russia apart from israeli assets all actively scoping the area trying to figure out the best weapons fit to sell to us

even drones flying on the Indian side at sufficient altitude behind and at the forward edge of battle area and our own manned airborne EW assets are definitely deployed.

no guesses as to how many non han MILSATS are currently positioned over the conflict zone and monitoring events in real time.

India will also be definately getting some inputs from "interested" parties with satellite assets in the area.

apart from all this, the ginormous testing opportunity for various countries to intercept enemy communications, try out their own individual interpreting and code breaking capabilities with the added confirmation of physical verification on the ground from Indian visual observations will add to their confidence level and the possible reset of their own procedures in realtime battlefield scenarios.

the hans, of course will be doing the same to us.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2020 14:20

They suffer perhaps from the same delusion of the Pakis,perhaps too much cohabiting with those swine,that vegetarian Yindoos cannot fight like meat-eating macho martial Muslim races!
However,India's thrashing of Pak from '48,'65,'71,Siachen,Kargil to date surely should've given their mil planners a note of caution of not underestimating our fighting capabilities.
They seem to have put too much faith in our weak link remaining true to form ,our MEA ,which for decades has been on the backfoot when it comes to China with a policy of appeasement. Doklam was a wake- up call for the political establishment,they stirred into action on spurring border infra,but the Galwan backstabbing was the last straw.The gloves are off now,the Chinks can now taste the same medicine we've been dishing out to the Pakis over decades.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 14:21

WATCH ... Col. Dinny's opening comments ... starting @ 2:00 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RddpTlj7HcU
Indian Forces Mount Rapid Mission In Southern Bank Area Of Pangong Lake | India First

1. The occupation of Black top is strategic as well as tactical.
2. F-4/8 is not strategic at all.

As discussed a while back. We now have an upper hand in the Pangong tso sector.

However, IFFF the Chinese had managed to preempt us to the Top of the ridge-line between Chushul and Spanggur tso it would have been equally strategic for the Chinese. The whole of Chushul bowl/valley would have come under direct Chinese observation/pressure and there was every likelihood of the Chinese making a play for areas between Chushul and Demchok sometime in the future from all 3 axis i.e. Spanggur gap, Dumchule La and Demchok area.

If Chushul was lost then western shore of Pangang tso would have come under pressure immediately both from Chushul and the north banks. Chushul is pivotal for the defense of both Demchok and Pangang tso.

Q) Should India pull back fully in Chushul for a full pull back by the Chinese on the north bank of Pangang tso?
Personally, I rather like the current configuration if we are able to sustain it.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 03 Sep 2020 14:22

Is this too good to be true?
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/indian-ar ... -along-lac
Indian Army Mounts Rapid Mission Along With SFF, Captures Finger 4 Ridgeline Along LAC
by Swarajya Staff-Sep 2, 2020 06:47 AM
The Indian Army along with the Special Frontier Force (SFF) has mounted a rapid mission to capture the North Finger 4 Ridgeline at Pangong Tso along the Line of Actual Control (LAC), India Today has reported.
The Indian Armed Forces have now taken control of the Finger 4 feature on the north bank of Pangong Tso lake. This feature is located a few hundred metres away from the Chinese posts.
.....
________________________________________________________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz4ktPYHHII
India-China Faceoff: Indian Army Captures Pangong North Finger 4 Ridgeline | Breaking News
Sep 2, 2020
_________________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.businesstoday.in/current/ec ... 14959.html
India-China standoff: Indian Army captures Pangong North Finger 4 in Ladakh
India-China standoff: This is for the first time since early June, Indian Army and Special Frontier Force (SFF) mounted rapid mission to take position at Finger 4 heights
September 2, 2020 | Updated 18:22 IST
Indian Army has captured Pangong North Finger 4 Ridge area of the Pangong lake along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in eastern Ladakh and along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and established its positions in the region. This is for the first time since early June, Indian Army and Special Frontier Force (SFF) mounted rapid mission to take position at Finger 4 heights. The Finger 4 feature on the north bank of Pangong Tso lake and is located close to Chinese posts which are just few hundred meters from Indian positions.
Amidst escalating tensions on the border with China, Indian troops captured this post after allegedly foiling an attempt by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) to occupy Indian territory in the disputed border region of Ladakh. On Tuesday, Indian Army had foiled the third attempt by China's People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops to transgress into Indian areas in Chumar, a border patrol facility located in south eastern Ladakh. In the last three days, it was the third time when the Chinese side tried to transgress into the Indian side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
Both sides had held Brigade Commander-level flag meeting on Tuesday in Chushul on the Indian side of the LAC to resolve the issue which ended in a stalemate, as per sources.
Indian occupation of the pass has led to a sharp reaction from China. According to an editorial piece published in Global Times, which is an English-language Chinese newspaper, the ongoing tensions between Indian and Chinese armies are the result of India's hardline approach in dealing with its border dispute with China. It also alleged that India's actions have seriously heightened the strategic mistrust between the both sides.
.........
Gautam

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 14:27

^^
Denied by Army sources ... We have reoriented some forces in that area to stop further mischief by the Chinese and perhaps prepare grounds for some action in the future.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Sep 2020 14:28

nam wrote:
SSridhar wrote:ers may be protecting their backsides by shifting blame on Beijing because they could face potential death sentence, by law, for conceding 'Chinese territory'.
It is possible, however both WTC & Bejing must have known, such a move by us is possible. After all it is 3400 KM long and not guarded everywhere. We have to having meetings after meetings. Even now the PLA is not yielding..

Some of the things about this affairs are beyond logic. The Chinese seems to be ready to sacrifice their relation with us for a piece of land, that they already access to and is not really worth much.

Either the Chinese stragetic thinkers are a clueless bunch or they genuinely believe India is not a threat and PLA ca do as they want. However all the action has been by PLA, while Bejing has not really retaliated heavily on the economic sanctions we have doing. I feel Beijing thinks they can roll the sanctions back by some "informal summits".

Looks like relation with us has been taken over by PLA..

I have a feeling that this is a nightmarish scenario for the xi as well as the PLA whose bluff has been called and they are very unsure of their next steps given the building support intenationally for the dynamically emerging Indian responses to needless provocations.

for the hans, all important loss of face alone will probably result in some PLA senior ranks being lined up against a wall and despatched efficiently

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 03 Sep 2020 14:29

Philip wrote:They seem to have put too much faith in our weak link remaining true to form ,our MEA ,which for decades has been on the backfoot when it comes to China with a policy of appeasement. Doklam was a wake- up call for the political establishment,they stirred into action on spurring border infra,but the Galwan backstabbing was the last straw.The gloves are off now,the Chinks can now taste the same medicine we've been dishing out to the Pakis over decades.

Next up will be getting Kashmir off UNSC agenda, which obviously China will veto. Then we will show China as a complicit party and further paint them into a corner; and possibly open a conversation of pulling away the veto from them for multiple reasons such as enabling terror regimes. Of course it won't go anywhere but will be nice to see them squirming. Basically what I am saying is that MEA also has some cards to play.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Sep 2020 14:30

pankajs wrote:^^
Denied by Army sources ... We have reoriented some forces in that area to stop further mischief by the Chinese and perhaps prepare grounds for some action in the future.

why would the IA confirm such a thing publicly

nam · Post by **nam** » 03 Sep 2020 14:35

We should try to understand better what the Chinis are thinking at the moment. The fanboy forums are one way, however it doesn't reflect CCP thinking.

Wish we have some Mandarian speakers, telling us how the Chini media is talking about this topic.. Are they arousing the average Sugar Xi on the street?

I heard post WTC announcement, it was the most searched topic on Weibo..

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 03 Sep 2020 14:38

https://defenceview.in/indian-army-reac ... fingure-4/
September 2, 2020 - Army, Latest News, World
Indian Army reaches dominating heights capture “Fingure 4”
F4 ridgeline has been captured by IA in a daring counterattack by our SFF boy’s. The PLA literally ran away without giving a fight. Status quo of May 2020 has been reinstated. Chinese FM have been asking us to go back to F1.
Specialised units of the Indian Army Special Frontier Force (SFF) have climbed up the heights, within Indian dominated territory facing the ridgelines of Finger 4 in the Northern Banks of Pangong Tso in Ladakh where the Chinese had built posts following their intrusion in April, ThePrint has learnt.
The development comes at a time when another set of specialised units of the Army has captured strategic heights in the Southern Bank as part of precautionary deployment on its own side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), taking the Chinese by surprise.
Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that it was in this week that a “readjustment of deployment” was carried out and soldiers reached “heights” and established posts.
“These are precautionary deployments well within the Indian side of the LAC,” the source said.
“There is no point in sitting on the ground when the enemy is at the heights. It is readjustment of troop deployment,” the source added.
......
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UichvUBlgk
Indo-China Dispute | India successfully captures Pangong North Finger 4
Sep 2, 2020
Gautam

Larry Walker · Post by **Larry Walker** » 03 Sep 2020 15:11

Lots of euphemism like 'occupied vantage positions' - but as a layman I am thinking what does it mean?? Are we saying we are now poised to strike? Because all this while news was that we have deployed to meet any Chinese assault. So what does this new vantage position mean? And if it is all defensive - why were these points not occupied earlier? Just trying to understand here.

RajaRudra · Post by **RajaRudra** » 03 Sep 2020 15:17

pankajs wrote:
manjgu wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3umUQ-VTS6g&t=26s ..gen diwedi is referring to this height/position...not clear apart from looking into f4 towards f8 where else does it look into...some pass whose name ( from gen diwedi) which i am unable to catch
From what I understand .. Starting @ 1:57] what the General is saying is that our capture of Black top has neutralized the Chinese advantage on the north bank of Pangang tso BECAUSE there is a height on F4 that dominates <<f2-8/something>> AND "Ane La" which we COULD have used to cut off the Chinese <<at IB/Fort area and trapping the Chinese in the middle>> ... Now we have squared up the game.

So "this" height he is referring to is the Black top <<or something near>> that allows us to "negate" the advantage that occupation of F4 and a specific location on F4 allowed the Chinese.

In this case, slowly we should cool the situation and come out of talks.

This much advantageous positions should not be vacated.
Negotiation is an art, Before going in for the negotiations we should be knowing the Worst Case Scenario(that is if the talks fails).
In our case, the worst case scenario is PLA staying back till Finger 4. But by doing that we got the chance now to readjust the tops.
By keeping the issue pending(not resolved), we can increase the cost by laying the hands on further tops and harassing the tops currently in the hands of PLA.
The need for resolving this issue is with Chinese, When and the cost for the same needs to be dictated by India.
The valor and braveness of army should not be lost in Talks.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 03 Sep 2020 15:35

The talks are happening in the open and not in the huts!!! Any significance?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2020 15:39

BK says we should've gone further,pressed home the advantage and swept them from the fingers, that they've tried to control. Before they are able to reinforce their positions ,we must push on.After their intrusions and aggression,the whole of occupied Aksai Chin is really up for grabs. We must plan on pro-active measures to further occupy and consolidate our positions to our tactical and strategic advantage.

Talks with the Chin will remain that,just talks,expelling of hor air in a cold clime. We can leave Min.Jaisankar to look after the fillibustering like Krishna Menon, whilst the IA,IAF and IN do thd real " talking", with the barrels of their guns.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 03 Sep 2020 15:47

Philip wrote:BK says we should've gone further,pressed home the advantage and swept them from the fingers, that they've tried to control. Before they are able to reinforce their positions ,we must push on.After their intrusions and aggression,the whole of occupied Aksai Chin is really up for grabs. We must plan on pro-active measures to further occupy and consolidate our positions to our tactical and strategic advantage.

Talks with the Chin will remain that,just talks,expelling of hor air in a cold clime. We can leave Min.Jaisankar to look after the fillibustering like Krishna Menon, whilst the IA,IAF and IN do thd real " talking", with the barrels of their guns.

COAS in Ladakh AND Air force chief in all major air bases in Eastern front. Checking ops preparedness.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 15:48

We haven't made any move of F4-8 so the question of sweeping down the fingers is out of question. On the south of Pangong tso we have already occupied the ridgeline and achieved out objective. So that part too is done.

I don't know what weed BK is smoking but GOI is clearly not going to make a play for Aksai Chin because with out current preparation we will not make it. Rest is all muddled thinking and a lot of hot air.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 15:49

Iyersan wrote:The talks are happening in the open and not in the huts!!! Any significance?

To guard against treachery. All trust up in smokes ...

On a different note, some folks want to march to Lahsa and beyond while some point to our resupply logistics problem in winter without an all weather connection. Wonder which make believe world we live in.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Sep 2020 16:00

Larry Walker wrote:Lots of euphemism like 'occupied vantage positions' - but as a layman I am thinking what does it mean?? Are we saying we are now poised to strike? Because all this while news was that we have deployed to meet any Chinese assault. So what does this new vantage position mean? And if it is all defensive - why were these points not occupied earlier? Just trying to understand here.

1. "vantage position" allows one to do what the Bakis wanted to do to India when they occupied "vantage position" in Kargil. Holding "vantage position" has its advantages.

2. We have informal agreement with the Chinese in many areas not to deploy close to the LAC. So both India and China patrolled F4/8 on the northern shores of Pangang tso and NONE deployed at Rezang/Rechin La that is on the LAC and many other such places.

Now that the Chinese have violated the general agreement in one area, India did a reverse in another "strategic" area to counter balance the asymmetry.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 03 Sep 2020 16:03

https://twitter.com/Chopsyturvey/status ... 0747027457

This video is not new news for you all but eye opener for a lot of people especially friends and families.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Sep 2020 16:04

pankajs wrote:
manjgu wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3umUQ-VTS6g&t=26s ..gen diwedi is referring to this height/position...not clear apart from looking into f4 towards f8 where else does it look into...some pass whose name ( from gen diwedi) which i am unable to catch
From what I understand .. Starting @ 1:57] what the General is saying is that our capture of Black top has neutralized the Chinese advantage on the north bank of Pangang tso BECAUSE there is a height on F4 that dominates <<f2-8/something>> AND "Ane La" which we COULD have used to cut off the Chinese <<at IB/Fort area and trapping the Chinese in the middle>> ... Now we have squared up the game.

So "this" height he is referring to is the Black top <<or something near>> that allows us to "negate" the advantage that occupation of F4 and a specific location on F4 allowed the Chinese.

1) he makes 2 different stmts..one is about black top etc which negates chini in the chushul sector And a height over F4 which dominates F 4.F8 and ane la pass...( which i dont know cuts access to what?).

2) per se exchanging these occupations with chini withdrawing from f4 to f8 is utter nonsense. With a black top road from f4 to f8 and beyond how does it matter if chini are at F6 or f7 or f8... even if they withdraw to f8 they can capture all the height captured by us on 1st sept and then calmly drive to f4 once again... one has to be v stupid. ofc i dont the know the implications of other chini incursions... but to my limited understanding the chini incursions are on relatively flat ground not exactly high features like mountain tops ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Sep 2020 16:07

There can never be a repeat of Haji Pir. Let's learn.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 03 Sep 2020 16:07

pankajs wrote:
Iyersan wrote:The talks are happening in the open and not in the huts!!! Any significance?
To guard against treachery. All trust up in smokes ...

On a different note, some folks want to march to Lahsa and beyond while some point to our resupply logistics problem in winter without an all weather connection. Wonder which make believe world we live in.

Have the talks reached such a stage that Brigade commanders feel there can be clubs used when the go for talks? Like it happened with the Brave Col. Santosh Babu. That means , talks are hogwash, we are going in

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Sep 2020 16:09

1) as per gen diwedi our occupation prevents PLA looking down into chushul bowl.... which is v significant 2) gurus a q...how did we manage to evade sensors, cameras etc deployed by the chini? just wondering why troops had to march up..cant be heli dropped?? any gyan on this issue

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 03 Sep 2020 16:27

https://swarajyamag.com/insta/china-had ... ent-report.
Any discussion has to include modalities for these scums to vacate occupied land

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 03 Sep 2020 16:29

Larry Walker wrote:Lots of euphemism like 'occupied vantage positions' - but as a layman I am thinking what does it mean?? Are we saying we are now poised to strike? Because all this while news was that we have deployed to meet any Chinese assault. So what does this new vantage position mean? And if it is all defensive - why were these points not occupied earlier? Just trying to understand here.

Larry if you were the brigade commander of the brigade in Chushul what are the two foremost thoughts in your mind?

1. Defensive positions are strong and shielded from enemy observation
2. You have at all times situational awareness of your enemy's activities.

For both these you want to do one critical thing in the mountains.

Dominate the heights. Dominating the heights gives you many tactical advantagesbprincipally because you can see the enemy while he or she cannot know what is happening in your rear. See the advantage you have now?

Please do read Himalayan Blunder by Brig Dalvi where he describes mountain warfare exquisitely

The reason we did not occupy these heights earlier is sheer stupidity and naivity .politically. The Chinese have always toyed with us. Hopefully we now have said enough is enough

Offence is the best form of defence

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 03 Sep 2020 16:34

This might be a good time for fast-tracking Nyoma airfield upgrade and reactivating Chushul airfield.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 03 Sep 2020 16:46

ks_sachin wrote:
Larry Walker wrote:Lots of euphemism like 'occupied vantage positions' - but as a layman I am thinking what does it mean?? Are we saying we are now poised to strike? Because all this while news was that we have deployed to meet any Chinese assault. So what does this new vantage position mean? And if it is all defensive - why were these points not occupied earlier? Just trying to understand here.
Larry if you were the brigade commander of the brigade in Chushul what are the two foremost thoughts in your mind?

1. Defensive positions are strong and shielded from enemy observation
2. You have at all times situational awareness of your enemy's activities.

For both these you want to do one critical thing in the mountains.

Dominate the heights. Dominating the heights gives you many tactical advantagesbprincipally because you can see the enemy while he or she cannot know what is happening in your rear. See the advantage you have now?

Please do read Himalayan Blunder by Brig Dalvi where he describes mountain warfare exquisitely

The reason we did not occupy these heights earlier is sheer stupidity and naivity .politically. The Chinese have always toyed with us. Hopefully we now have said enough is enough

Offence is the best form of defence

Not necessarily with many drones flying around and satellites but agree nothing like eyes on enemy

nam · Post by **nam** » 03 Sep 2020 16:59

You cannot do 24/7 surveillance with drones and satellites. Even if you can, in a war, guys sitting on the top can keep calling in artillery.

Drones have their own logistics and energy requirement, cost. Guys sitting on the top require MRE and binoculars.

Moreover drones and satellites don't capture land.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 03 Sep 2020 17:08

Gurus are confused themselves. Nothing is clear. One of the prominant reporter from Leh can not pronounce Ladakh. Not much info is coming out. Experts are trying to make sense out of lil cryptic info is given by IA.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 03 Sep 2020 17:31

This is what I posted on June 20th.
viewtopic.php?p=2441084#p244108

hanumadu wrote:Why did India destroy the smallest of the Galwan Valley camps of the chinese stay but let them build many more camps on finger 4? The answer might lie in Lt Gen Kulkarni's nonchalant remark about India having its troops at a near by peak. The red line for India to take action seems to be loss of strategic advantage.

I don't know if the situation is still true or if it was ever true but I don't see any reason not to believe Lt Gen Kulkarni.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 03 Sep 2020 17:54

Suraj wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Do the chinese have a defective gene for common sense?

How can you claim the entire south china sea, stop vietnamese from oil exploration in their waters, empty their fish with your trawlers, harass their trawlers and then ask them to not be friends with India?

Frankly most things that the chinese govt does seem to have no basis in common sense.
I don't see anything strange, when you see the world from their perspective:
"China is the sole power of Asia. There are no equal relationships. All other nations are tributaries, who benefit from Chinese noblesse oblige. What China considers important to itself is all that matters. Vietnam must feel grateful for how much they have developed due to their economic engagement with China. Why does Vietnam want to be ungrateful ?"

See it this way and there's nothing wrong with what they're doing. A trip to Vietnam means calling in a favor 'they have granted Vietnam'. It is important not to make sense of China solely from the view of our own value system. Start by looking at the world their way, then work back how it disadvantages them. Our own value systems are not really important to this.

Without the current context of what the chinese have been doing in the past few months and in general in the past few years, I would (and probably many others) find this explanation incredulous. The only other group of people that I know who demand respect and subservience from others with nothing to offer in return are muslims and especially pakistanis. And we know how many people find it hard to believe when we say what pakis truly are. Indians on the other hand are accommodating to a fault, both as individuals and as a nation.

But what is it that blinds the chinese to reality? Are the chinese people, in general, like that or is it the CCP?
In the case of muslims we know why they live in la la land. It's the book. What about the chinese? What is their book or books?

Normally irrespective of what your culture or your upbringing is, you eventually learn what is acceptable behaviour after a few thappads in the case of individuals. The chinese did not get such thappads yet, at least after they think they became supel powel. They need a few ASAP, for their own good.