India-US Strategic News and Discussion

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 31 Dec 2013 02:38

If India really wants to send a meaningful message to the US then they will cancel the multi billion $ Hercules deal. But we all know that won't happen. Whether DK's prosecution continues or not, US-India relations will carry on as normal.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 31 Dec 2013 02:43

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative (Reaganite Republican) think tank. The article by Lisa Curtis follows the general trend of policymaking during GWBs reign, i.e. more predisposed to better relations with New Delhi and emphasizing the need to maintain good ties, but also emphasizing security, which is a big deal to the Republicans (ignoring the process of how they go about it in terms of conducting wars). As such, their point of view should be encouraged, since it provides an internal voice within the US system supporting a rollback of the US actions in this matter, which should be viewed as the result of Democrat policymaking imperatives.

shyamoo · Post by **shyamoo** » 31 Dec 2013 02:47

adhkiran wrote:Guys,

i have been a lurker here for a while and decided to take plunge based on this issue I have been following closely. I disagree with most of opinions here. The only strong entity which is showing unnecessary muscle/bulliness to a weaker entity is the Indian govt (or its employees) towards an Indian maid.

You should have read everything before deciding to take a plunge!!!

There a lot of thing wrong with the way our govt. operates. But this is not about that.

The points that you have raised have been discussed before...

1) She was paid the agreed upon amount
2) Typical IFS work does happen only between 9-5. A lot of business is done after hours...
3) The maid is not Indian govt. passport and hence not applicable
4) How did you arrive at the conclusion 'to show the maid her place'? Per SR, she was treated like a family member..
etc. etc.

Nirupama Rao & GF were not strip searched.

And please get your facts right or better yet go back to you lurk mode.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2013 02:49

i don't understand this gov stand itself first? canceling defense deals imho, is no brainer.. as if we have no issues at all with def purchases.

i am going back to p sainath's article again and again.. i'd expect namo to do the corrections rather chase behind dk's issue other than those that affect the diplomacy and office procedures.

i vote for corrections and accept US suggestions for changing our laws regarding labor force.. if that is the genuine case here. give it a thought! and once we do that, we can rip thru massan wazoos literally.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 Dec 2013 03:07

CIA’s Trojan Horse enters the Heart of India

While we fulminate against the US outrage and rightly so,the insidious Great game being played out before the crucial 2014 elections is hardly being followed.Kejriwal and his fellow travellers of the AAP and sundry NGO "volk",all US stooges,are gathering together to fight the elections on the AAP platform.The "invitation" to arch-quisling Udaykumar,attempted saboteur of the KKM N-plant,to joj the AAP indicates the core philosophy of the AAP,to turn India into a "Gandhian" vegetable patch with no world role to play other than "turd fiddle" to Uncle Sam.

Kejriwal was awarded one of the so-called Magsaysay awards for "Emergent Leadership" way back in 2006,named after a Phillipino CIA stooge.Just see who have been its recipients and how the foreign funding of "national issues" is being carefully orchestrated.Just recently I posted how Ford was the ideologue who wrote an anti-semitic book that inspired Hitler!

Arvind Kejriwal selected for Magsaysay Award
PTI Jul 31, 2006, 04.05pm IST

KUALA LUMPUR: Head of Delhi-based Parivartan citizen's movement, Arvind Kejriwal, was on Monday selected for this year's Ramon Magsaysay Award for his contribution to India's right-to-information movement and empowering poor citizens to fight corruption.

Here's what one A.Roy has to say in her blog,perhaps why she is not receiving western adulation these days!

http://lespolitiques.blogspot.in/2012/0 ... -ngos.html

"...By the 1950s, the Rockefeller and Ford foundations, funding several NGOs and international educational institutions, began to work as quasi-extensions of the US government that was at the time toppling democratically elected governments in Latin America, Iran and Indonesia. (That was also around the time they made their entry into India, then non-aligned, but clearly tilting towards the Soviet Union.) The Ford Foundation established a US-style economics course at the Indonesian University. Elite Indonesian students, trained in counter-insurgency by US army officers, played a crucial part in the 1965 CIA-backed coup in Indonesia that brought General Suharto to power. Gen Suharto repaid his mentors by slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Communist rebels.
Eight years later, young Chilean students, who came to be known as the Chicago Boys, were taken to the US to be trained in neo-liberal economics by Milton Friedman at the University of Chicago (endowed by J.D. Rockefeller), in preparation for the 1973 CIA-backed coup that killed Salvador Allende, and brought in General Pinochet and a reign of death squads, disappearances and terror that lasted for seventeen years. (Allende’s crime was being a democratically elected socialist and nationalising Chile’s mines.)
In 1957, the Rockefeller Foundation established the Ramon Magsaysay Prize for community leaders in Asia. It was named after Ramon Magsaysay, president of the Philippines, a crucial ally in the US campaign against Communism in Southeast Asia. In 2000, the Ford Foundation established the Ramon Magsaysay Emergent Leadership Award. The Magsaysay Award is considered a prestigious award among artists, activists and community workers in India. M.S. Subbulakshmi and Satyajit Ray won it, so did Jayaprakash Narayan and one of India’s finest journalists, P. Sainath. But they did more for the Magsaysay award than it did for them. In general, it has become a gentle arbiter of what kind of activism is “acceptable” and what is not.

Interestingly, Anna Hazare’s anti-corruption movement last summer was spearheaded by three Magsaysay Award winners—Anna Hazare, Arvind Kejriwal and Kiran Bedi. One of Arvind Kejriwal’s many NGOs is generously funded by Ford Foundation. Kiran Bedi’s NGO is funded by Coca Cola and Lehman Brothers."

CIA’s Trojan Horse enters the Heart of India
ShelleyKasli / December 9, 2013

The CIA uses philanthropic foundations as the most effective conduit to channel large sums of money to Agency projects without alerting the recipients to their source. From the early 1950s to the present the CIA’s intrusion into the foundation field was and is huge. A U.S. Congressional investigation in 1976 revealed that nearly 50% of the 700 grants in the field of international activities by the principal foundations were funded by the CIA. The CIA considers foundations such as Ford “The best and most plausible kind of funding cover”. The collaboration of respectable and prestigious foundations, according to one former CIA operative, allowed the Agency to fund “a seemingly limitless range of covert action programs affecting youth groups, labor unions, universities, publishing houses and other private institutions”. The latter included “human rights” groups beginning in the 1950s to the present. One of the most important “private foundations” collaborating with the CIA over a significant span of time in major projects in the cultural Cold War is the Ford Foundation.
CIA & The Ford Foundation

By the late 1950s the Ford Foundation possessed over $3 billion in assets. The leaders of the Foundation
were in total agreement with Washington’s post-WWII projection of world power. A noted scholar of the
period writes:

“At times it seemed as if the Ford Foundation was simply an extension of government in the area of
international cultural propaganda. The foundation had a record of close involvement in covert actions in Europe, working closely with Marshall Plan and CIA officials on specific projects”. This is graphically illustrated by the naming of Richard Bissell as President of the Foundation in 1952. In his two years in office Bissell met often with the head of the CIA, Allen Dulles, and other CIA officials in a “mutual search” for new ideas. In 1954 Bissell left Ford to become a special assistant to Allen Dulles in January 1954. Under Bissell, the Ford Foundation (FF) was the “vanguard of Cold War thinking”.

http://greatgameindia.wordpress.com/201 ... -of-india/

CIA’s Trojan Horse reaches India

India had been sucked into the spiral of this Cultural Cold War since a long time. However with the US
economy already bust and the EU falling like dominos; it is again the East where the West would anchor
it’s sinking ship of so called Exceptionalism that fuels the Western Civilization. The game on the
Indian side is very well crafted and carried out through CIA’s Trojan Horse which has entered into the
heart of Indian Politics – Delhi.

CIA-Trojan-Horse-Ford-Aam-Aadmi-Party-AAP-India

A new political party pledging to sweep corruption from the Indian capital made surprising gains in
state elections, grabbing a huge share of votes from the incumbent Congress party and leaving Delhi with
no clear leader on Monday — and no party willing to form a coalition.

The fledgling Aam Aadmi Party, or Common Man’s Party, seized 28 of Delhi’s 70 assembly seats just nine
months after its formation. The Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party took first place with 31, while
Congress was left with a meagre eight, a stunning decline from its previous 43.

Aam-Aadmi-Party-CIA-Ford-Kejriwal-India-Arwind-India

All three ruled out entering into a governing alliance, leaving the capital in a leadership lurch and
raising the possibility of new elections.
CIA lays the “Foundation” of Indian Policymaking

The Ford Foundation, which completes six decades in India next year, provides a continuing flow of
grants to institutions, think-tanks, civil society, and even farmer groups, to carry out research and
advocacy work. The sums are not inconsequential—about $15 million (about Rs 70 crore) a year. And the
recipients—320 grants, over the past four years—are the who’s who of civil society and advocacy groups
in India.

Its representative, Steven Solnick, said the Foundation’s last installment to Kabir (an NGO run by Arvind Kejriwal and Manish Sisodia) was in 2010. “Our first grant to the NGO was of $1,72,000 in 2005 ; the second was in 2008 of $1,97,000,” he told Business Standard.
Steven Solnick – Ford Foundation’s representative in India

Kabir, run by Arvind Kejriwal and Manish Sisodia, key figures in AAP(Aam Aadmi Party), has received $400,000 from the Ford Foundation in the last three years.

Link for $197,000 – now removed by Ford. Refer screenshot of the same below.

http://www.fordfoundation.org/grants/gr ... tid=107117

Kabir Ford Foundation CIA

In reply to an RTI query that questioned the funding and expenditure of Kabir, the organisation has disclosed that they have received funds from the Ford Foundation (Rs 86,61,742), PRIA (Rs 2,37,035), Manjunath Shanmugam Trust (Rs 3,70,000), Dutch Embassy (Rs 19,61,968), Association for India’s Development (Rs 15,00,000), India’s friends Association (Rs 7,86,500), United Nationals Development Programme (Rs12,52,742) while Rs 11,35,857 were collected from individual donations between 2007 to 2010.

Kejriwal Admits, His NGO Took Money From Ford Foundation 2 Years Back
Interestingly, a major part of the funding to an organisation that is prominent in the “War against corruption” has come from abroad and mainly from the United States. Apar from the UNDP, Ford Foundation and the India Friends Association are US-based organisations, while PRIA and Association for India’s Development are headquartered in Asia.

Ford-Foundation-AAP-Kejriwal-CIA-India-1

Ford-Foundation-AAP-Kejriwal-CIA-India-2

Ford-Foundation-AAP-Kejriwal-CIA-India-3

Ford-Foundation-AAP-Kejriwal-CIA-India-4

The foundation, on its part, makes no bones about its neo-liberal agenda, broadly pro-market, seeking
accountability in governance, and promoting marginalised groups. It funds a small number of
institutions, but chooses effectively. At a post-budget meeting two years back, it was noted that all
the think-tanks represented (NCAER, NIPFP, ICRIER and the Centre for Policy Research) on the dais
received grants from the foundation. Academicians and scholars from these think-tanks are regularly
consulted by the government on various policy issues.

CIA Ford Foundation Aam Aadmi Party India

On whether the views of these intellectuals actually get reflected in subsequent policies, Planning Commission deputy chairman Montek Singh Ahluwalia declines to comment. “I don’t really have a view on it,” he says. He does, however, concede that India’s association with the foundation “is something that has been on for a long time”.

Moreover, three of core members ( Arvind Kejriwal, Kiran Bedi and Manish Sisodia) are also Magsaysay award winners which are endowed by the Ford Foundation and Rockefeller.
The Three Stooges

As far as the Magsaysay Award winners are concerned, this award is an American award for Asians established and funded by the Rockefeller Foundation ostensibly in memory of Ramon Magsaysay, the former President of Philippines.

According to well-placed sources in the U. S. Intelligence community opposed to the State Department’s policy toward the Philippines, $30 million in covert funds was supplied to the Philippine opposition to help finance its presidential campaign. This $30 million was laundered through Hong Kong, where the money was converted into the Philippine peso at the black market rate of 20 pesos to the dollar.

Philippine sources reported that the money had, been in part funneled into the CIA-controlled citizens election watch group, called Namfrel , the National Movement for a Free Election, which was originally created in 1953 in order to bring Ramon Magsaysay into power. Namfrel was central in the State Department’s policy of intervening into the Philippines election.

In 1957, the Rockefeller Foundation established the Ramon Magsaysay Prize for community leaders in Asia. It was named after Ramon Magsaysay, president of the Philippines, a crucial ally in the US campaign against Communism in Southeast Asia. In 2000, the Ford Foundation established the Ramon Magsaysay Emergent Leadership Award. The Magsaysay Award is considered a prestigious award among artists, activists and community workers in India. M.S. Subbulakshmi and Satyajit Ray won it, so did Jayaprakash Narayan and journalists, P. Sainath. In general, it has become a gentle arbiter of what kind of activism is “acceptable” and what is not. In reality the award is the living memory of the dictatorial president of Philippines known for the murder of thousands of communist guerrillas during the Huk Rebellion under US-planned anti-communist counter-insurgency operations. It explains the silence of the anti-corruption group against corporations and the private sector.

For more details read : CIA manipulation of 1953 elections

This perfectly fits in with a recent shift in the US policy of association with India, which is now focusing on building state-to-state partnerships by “engaging Indian state and local leaders” throughout the country on “topics of mutual interest”. Civil society groups and think-tanks are expected to play an important role in this. As Prof Anil Gupta of IIM-Ahmedabad observes, “Their influence is far beyond what is recognized, and not always benign.”

Should NGOs receiving grants from international agencies like the Ford Foundation and others be barred from participating in the shaping of public policy?

And are these civil society groups working as stooges of the West to execute an “American agenda” ?

These are the question the Aam Aadmi has to answer.

Not the copyrighted ones; but the real Aam Aadmi.
Report by
Shelley Kasli

Ukraine Kiev Lenin Statue Demolished CIA

Update : Just last night CIA’s Urban Guerrilla Unit demolished Lenin’s statue in Kiev, Ukraine same as they did with Saddam’s as part of a psychological warfare protesting against Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych staunch stand against EU and East European countries and refusal to sign the free-trade agreement that would devastate his nation’s remaining industry already devastated by IMF.

References:
Buy from Amazon
Ford Foundation, a philanthropic facade for the CIA

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?278264

Claims that Hazare’s movement is US-funded baseless: Arvind

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 109_1.html

‘We’re No Policy Advisors’

http://www.outlookindia.com/printarticle.aspx?278265

Kejriwal Admits, His NGO Took Money From Ford Foundation 2 Years Back

http://www.indiatvnews.com/print/news/k ... 340-1.html

It’s Official – US-Based Ford Foundation Funding Anna’s Movement

http://beyondheadlines.in/2011/08/it%E2 ... -movement/

…

Interesting to note that another FF hero is none other than Nandan Nilekani who has thrown his hat into the ring and wants to stand for parliament from BLore South on the Cong.ticket! Here's another allegation excpt:

a flood of stories in the media said that Nandan Nilekani -- also from an I.I.T. -- who, despite being worth well over a billion dollars from working for the Americans has become chairman of India‘s Unique Identification Card -- Aadhar card -- program which has entered into a contract with MongoDB which is part-funded by the CIA “to identify, adapt and deliver innovative technology solutions to support the missions of CIA and the broader US intelligence community” including “National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and Department of Homeland Security Science and Technology Directorate” -- Economic Times, Dec 3 ‘13 -- to bring India’s population under comprehensive American control as do numerous programs under the guise of homeland security etc. for which the U.S. National Security Agency chief recently spent about a week in India with a team of 17 -- what was he doing with a team of 17 for almost a week in India?

http://www.asianage.com/mumbai/bedi-off ... advice-192

member_28369 · Post by **member_28369** » 31 Dec 2013 03:25

There are certainly many and numerous issues of US high handedness that India needs to stand up to with a high level of energy. This is not one though this needs protest. Consular officer is clerical work. i find it hard to imagine our babus working well beyond 9-5 in a consular office when they appear not to be working even within 9-5. The so called wage agreemement between diplomat and maid is useless as it does not confirm to immigration laws of US.

This is all about privilege of IFS to have 24/7 maid imported from India only. its just an officer cabal protecting their own. And this privelege is an embarassing. Devyani husband is an american citizen but the maid should belong only to India.

its always wise to treat low-end workers such as maid, cleaners strictly by law. Dismiss them easily and recruit them when needed. A high end worker will understand and be accomodative but dont expect it from low end. This much street level wisdom does not exist with IFS inspite of numerous issues they ran in to.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Dec 2013 03:40

adhikaran, If you lurked long enough you would know I had warned a couple of long term posters for bringing in DK's India related issues into this thread.

member_28369 · Post by **member_28369** » 31 Dec 2013 03:57

vnmshyam wrote:
Nirupama Rao & GF were not strip searched.

And please get your facts right or better yet go back to you lurk mode.

Why did DK makes claims of such as "repeated handcuffing, stripping and cavity searches, swabbing" and then not condemn when NYPD said nothing apart from stripping happened. Should an IFS officer speak truth and not hype thing up when they are entrusted with job of representing India? . I initially thought media made it up but according to wikipedia DK herself made it up. I hope indian govt spends a fraction of its energy taking care of Indian citizens abroad. The goal of IFS is welfare of India via foreign relations and also welfare of Indian citizens abroad. This case makes it seem the goal is welfare of IFS itself.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 31 Dec 2013 04:05

adhkiran: Please stop trolling.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 31 Dec 2013 04:17

adhkiran( or anyone), have there ever been arrests and strip searches done to diplomats/consular officials from oil rich Arab kingdoms or from China? If so, what was the result or consequences of such action against the officials. Why is India being singled out, it's hard if not impossible to believe that such behaviour doesn't occur in Arab or East Asian consuls/embassies.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Dec 2013 04:25

chaanakya wrote:PTI Tweets:

Devyani Khobragade arrest case: There is no question of apology to India, everything has been done by the book, say US govt sources:
Case against Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade, accused of visa fraud, not being "withdrawn" — US government sources
If Devyani Khobragade returns to India and then comes back to US on a visit, charges will stand, she could face arrest, say sources

So, the US approach seems clear. They want the ignominy to stick to DK permanently. They want the threat of prosecution to stay there permanently. At the same time, the UN immunity (even that is not settled completely as yet) is the only concession that they are willing to offer to India to spirit her away without a court case.

There is no option for India other than to reciprocate. The Indian window is narrowing by American arrogance.

member_28369 · Post by **member_28369** » 31 Dec 2013 04:32

Varoon Shekhar wrote:adhkiran( or anyone), have there ever been arrests and strip searches done to diplomats/consular officials from oil rich Arab kingdoms or from China? If so, what was the result or consequences of such action against the officials. Why is India being singled out, it's hard if not impossible to believe that such behaviour doesn't occur in Arab or East Asian consuls/embassies.

That is a very weak question because you will never find an answer. I see powerful guys punished in USA and I hear some bragging about not being punished. Why ? you will never know - It happens within India too. French presidential candidate was handcuffed and dragged out of air plane because a hotel maid complained against him and may be some arab guys got a wink and nod as you say.

instead of pondering over those hypotheticals we can focus on the case. From my persual of all information I have via media I don't see americans goofing up anywhere - you can say they acted arrogant and they did not accord "niceties" but they did not appear to break law - instead they followed it very well by siding with a weaker party here. Indians did appear to be break law. And I can't make sense of many indian actions here. Also as indian I want to watch very closely how our IFS performs rather than arbitrariness of americans. India should provide all legal help to both indian parties here - maid and diplomat. And for godsake develop some best practices when it comes to maids and nannies so we don't run in to problems this often on such cases.

indian private sector went though hell and high water with US work regulations which can be far more arbitrary then here. They also had to fight resentment from local american workers which does not apply here. But they still seem to get their act together. When will our babudom catch up ?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 31 Dec 2013 04:34

adhkiran wrote:The so called wage agreemement between diplomat and maid is useless as it does not confirm to immigration laws of US.

The previous pages had links to the VCCR, the language was very clear that consular employees are not bound by local laws.

adhkiran wrote:Devyani husband is an american citizen but the maid should belong only to India.

Fair enough, I too think IFS should change the rules to bar officials having foreign spouses. But that is an internal issue we can come to later. For now, the focus should be on what happened and try to understand why it happened - who was SR that the US went to such an extent and evacuated the family?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 31 Dec 2013 04:39

adhkiran wrote:
Varoon Shekhar wrote:adhkiran( or anyone), have there ever been arrests and strip searches done to diplomats/consular officials from oil rich Arab kingdoms or from China? If so, what was the result or consequences of such action against the officials. Why is India being singled out, it's hard if not impossible to believe that such behaviour doesn't occur in Arab or East Asian consuls/embassies.
That is a very weak question because you will never find an answer. I see powerful guys punished in USA and I hear some bragging about not being punished. Why ? you will never know - It happens within India too. French presidential candidate was handcuffed and dragged out of air plane because a hotel maid complained against him and may be some arab guys got a wink and nod as you say.

instead of pondering over those hypotheticals we can focus on the case. From my persual of all information I have via media I don't see americans goofing up anywhere - you can say they acted arrogant and they did not accord "niceties" but they did not appear to break law - instead they followed it very well by siding with a weaker party here. Indians did appear to be break law. And I can't make sense of many indian actions here. Also as indian I want to watch very closely how our IFS performs rather than arbitrariness of americans. India should provide all legal help to both indian parties here - maid and diplomat. And for godsake develop some best practices when it comes to maids and nannies so we don't run in to problems this often on such cases.

indian private sector went though hell and high water with US work regulations which can be far more arbitrary then here. They also had to fight resentment from local american workers which does not apply here. But they still seem to get their act together. When will our babudom catch up ?

If you want IFS/babudom to change, try to change them from within India rather than waiting for an external entity to fix them in a Mir-Jaffar-ish way.

Ohh and if you believe that everyone in the US side follows the law, then I have a beach house in Kansas to sell.

saip · Post by **saip** » 31 Dec 2013 04:43

adhikarn, dk did not lie. wikipedia is not bible. strip search includes cavity search. if someone asks you to open your fridge to see what is inside he is searching your fridge even if he does not put his hands inside your fridge. Replace fridge with any body cavity and u will understand. BTW it was not NYPD.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 31 Dec 2013 04:44

SSridhar wrote:

There is no option for India other than to reciprocate. The Indian window is narrowing by American arrogance.

SS, FWIW, I have a strong suspicion that come January 13 or so, the NY court will take note of the fact that DK was part of the UN Delegation effective August 2013 and that as such, she is entitled to immunity and that the Court has no jurisdiction unless the DoS takes certain steps to revoke the immunity (which it won't).

Let's wait and see.

I am reminded of Stephen Leacock's immortal "Lord Ronald said nothing; he flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse and rode madly off in all directions." ("Gertrude The Governess" 1911).

In Lord Ronald's case, it was perhaps Equus Praecox (Shiv are you there?). Let's not just yet fall into the fire, aim, ready sequence of things.

There are a lot of people trying to clean the augean stables over the turn of the year.

Let's see what happens. Better than watching TV?

After January 13 or so, we can all fling ourselves in any and all directions we wish.

Happy New Year and all that.

Added later: Not that anyone cares but if the above scenario holds, (and even if doesn't), DK can be reappointed to the UN in the future and come to the US without fear of arrest. So no worries for oenophile hubby.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 31 Dec 2013 04:55

adhkiran wrote: instead of pondering over those hypotheticals we can focus on the case. From my persual of all information I have via media I don't see americans goofing up anywhere - you can say they acted arrogant and they did not accord "niceties" but they did not appear to break law - instead they followed it very well by siding with a weaker party here.
i?

I guess Raymond A. Davis did not goof.
Gautam

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 31 Dec 2013 05:00

Cosmo_R wrote: SS, FWIW, I have a strong suspicion that come January 13 or so, the NY court will take note of the fact that DK was part of the UN Delegation effective August 2013 and that as such, she is entitled to immunity and that the Court has no jurisdiction unless the DoS takes certain steps to revoke the immunity (which it won't).

That is the best scenario. The worst is that she will be found guilty and then declared persona non grata and removed quickly and not be able to return. I do not see her doing time even in the worst situation. But in the second case, the bitterness will remain and the US will have to pay a pound of flesh for some time, before MMS can take us back to our usual servile self.
Gautam

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Dec 2013 05:07

when information hiding is high, nothing makes a good argument. there may be more than 3 people culpable. who the heck knows? i would suggest, please chase after op-ed, corrections, etc. and again, it does no good to this thread. we have to wait till the data is clear.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 31 Dec 2013 05:11

g.sarkar wrote:
Cosmo_R wrote: SS, FWIW, I have a strong suspicion that come January 13 or so, the NY court will take note of the fact that DK was part of the UN Delegation effective August 2013 and that as such, she is entitled to immunity and that the Court has no jurisdiction unless the DoS takes certain steps to revoke the immunity (which it won't).
That is the best scenario. The worst is that she will be found guilty and then declared persona non grata and removed quickly and not be able to return. I do not see her doing time even in the worst situation. But in the second case, the bitterness will remain and the US will have to pay a pound of flesh for some time, before MMS can take us back to our usual servile self.
Gautam

Here's the interesting part> Even if she's declared PNG, she can leave and return as a member of the UN delegation without fear of prosecution.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 31 Dec 2013 05:11

Kati wrote:Yesterday there was a major rally in Ranchi for NaMo by BJP.
While NaMo didn't wade into the DK matter, Jaswant Singh did get into it, and
thundered that when NaMo comes to power, Ombaba's visa will be denied. .....

Nice stunt by JS, because Obama is not coming to India again. Someone mentioned that while DK was still in the woods, why point finger at the ruling party? Isn't it precisely the reason to show that the ruling as incompetent? Hope motel-wallah capital cronyism is not driving NaMo...

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 31 Dec 2013 05:13

Suraj wrote:... which should be viewed as the result of Democrat policymaking imperatives.

Unfortunately Republicans are in such a disarray that even with President Obama's 41% apporval rating, it is still a question mark whether they can take control of the senate and/or they can counter Ms. Clinton who is sure to run for 2016 presidency. If Ms. Clinton becomes the (first woman) president, IMHO dem policy would still continue on the current path.

Senate of course is the most powerful body in GOTUS.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 31 Dec 2013 05:22

chanakyaa wrote:
Kati wrote:Yesterday there was a major rally in Ranchi for NaMo by BJP.
While NaMo didn't wade into the DK matter, Jaswant Singh did get into it, and
thundered that when NaMo comes to power, Ombaba's visa will be denied. .....
Nice stunt by JS, because Obama is not coming to India again. Someone mentioned that while DK was still in the woods, why point finger at the ruling party? Isn't it precisely the reason to show that the ruling as incompetent? Hope motel-wallah capital cronyism is not driving NaMo...

I believe it was Yashwant Sinha not JS who 'thundered that. JS would taken 5 paragraphs to say that.

member_28369 · Post by **member_28369** » 31 Dec 2013 05:32

g.sarkar wrote:
adhkiran wrote: instead of pondering over those hypotheticals we can focus on the case. From my persual of all information I have via media I don't see americans goofing up anywhere - you can say they acted arrogant and they did not accord "niceties" but they did not appear to break law - instead they followed it very well by siding with a weaker party here.
i?
I guess Raymond A. Davis did not goof.
Gautam

Though it is a different case - Davis was arrested, thrown in to an "ordinary" pakistani jail and kept locked up till the entire judicial process worked.is it not? America's posturing of diplomatic immunity did not work and ultimately america worked though Pak judiciary system. I know sharia here sounds very contrived but its legit and the way of the world there. its Pakistan's weak justice system and shariah law which helped USA not its posturing about diplomacy.

one of the main embarrasment here is the victim is also Indian. And you have to give equal weightage to both until judgement is delivered. law is supposed to be blind to individual status and this perspective is totally missing in Indian media coverage and worse even in Indian govt stand.

India, in my opinion, has no option but to proceed with book such as some contrived way of getting imunity as many others here have suggested.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 31 Dec 2013 05:37

adhkiran wrote: instead of pondering over those hypotheticals we can focus on the case. From my persual of all information I have via media I don't see americans goofing up anywhere - you can say they acted arrogant and they did not accord "niceties" but they did not appear to break law - instead they followed it very well by siding with a weaker party here.
i?

I guess Raymond A. Davis did not goof.
Gautam[/quote]
Though it is a different case [/quote]
Sirji,
Every case is different, show me two cases that are identical. You made a blanket statement that Sher Khan did not goof. So there you are. Any thing else?
Gautam

member_28369 · Post by **member_28369** » 31 Dec 2013 05:40

g.sarkar wrote:
adhkiran wrote: instead of pondering over those hypotheticals we can focus on the case. From my persual of all information I have via media I don't see americans goofing up anywhere - you can say they acted arrogant and they did not accord "niceties" but they did not appear to break law - instead they followed it very well by siding with a weaker party here.
i?
I guess Raymond A. Davis did not goof.
Gautam

Though it is a different case [/quote]
Sirji,
Every case is different, show me two cases that are identical. You made a blanket statement that Sher Khan did not goof. So there you are. Any thing else?
Gautam[/quote]

Did not goof in this particular case ofcourse

. Sorry if that was not evident when i said that.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 31 Dec 2013 05:44

whoever thinks that the maid is a victim need to recheck their assumptions since she had the motivation of green card, as with such people indulging in immigration fraud, their first line of defence would be to allege abuse and there won't be any proof, their story keeps changing when the other party keeps countering with proof which is usually difficult in a 'he said she said' scenario. It was obvious when SR's anonymous attorney tried to settle first on terms that would be violation of both India and US laws. Also note somebody who gets abused goes to the cops first and not find a 'freelancing' lawyer after being incognito for few months.

SD has't responded on the UN accredition at the time of DK's arrest aspect so far but freely talks of finding more 'dirt', its a H&D or ego problem

On the outer layer its slowly emerging that since India didn't yield on the US ship seized in Tuticorin they wanted to show their law, just maybe. Is the US embassy involved in their negotiation for release?

Shankk · Post by **Shankk** » 31 Dec 2013 05:47

This is a good time to expel narcotics peddlers from Goa. Not many people will make noise given the current atmosphere. At least something good will come out of this episode.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Dec 2013 06:19

http://southasia.foreignpolicy.com/post ... hard_place

india-us relations: rocked and in a hard place

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 31 Dec 2013 06:26

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/835028.shtml

China can take chance offered by Indian-US diplomatic quarrel

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 Dec 2013 06:33

NSA 'hacking unit' infiltrates computers around the world – report

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/d ... g-unit-tao

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Dec 2013 07:03

pankajs wrote:The End of the U.S.-India Honeymoon -
Sadanand Dhume
With the so-called Khobragade affair, involving the arrest of an Indian diplomat in New York, stretching into its third week with little sign of resolution, it looks increasingly likely that the damage to U.S.-India ties will be long-term. Widely held assumptions in Washington and New Delhi—that both countries had found a way to forge a stable, mutually beneficial partnership—turn out to have been premature.
Hope this makes our politicos and diplomats see the errors of their ways.

it never was a honeymoon for that implies a marriage. It was a one sided delusion by a starry elite, which has now become grounded in reality of Legalized cavity searches of female diplomats.

I hate the feminization of India that is Bharat.
Nehruji started that humbug model.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Dec 2013 07:14

Gerard wrote:http://southasia.foreignpolicy.com/post ... hard_place

india-us relations: rocked and in a hard place

I respect Seema Sirohi and give her the same pedestal for Inder Malhotraji.

However I find one conclusion bothersome.

But the Obama administration's inept handling of the case has left a deep crack in what was still a nascent relationship in many ways.

I submit that there is a long pattern of mi- behavior towards India shaped from his Senate days that governs the 'inept' handling.

BO was hyper active in the Hyde act and in his election campaign was lynch pinned around outsourcing from India.
He and his coterie are surrounded with India baiters from staffers to Secretaries.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 31 Dec 2013 07:47

Cosmo_R wrote:SS, FWIW, I have a strong suspicion that come January 13 or so, the NY court will take note of the fact that DK was part of the UN Delegation effective August 2013 and that as such, she is entitled to immunity and that the Court has no jurisdiction unless the DoS takes certain steps to revoke the immunity (which it won't).

Let's wait and see.

Cosmo_R, I doubt if the court would accept immunity on the basis of DK's August UN accreditation because it never went to the US attention as is required. The US would argue that in its eyes, DK had no immunity. But, even assuming that she is assumed to have had immunity since August and the case is thrown out, the DoS actions stay without an apology and amends for the gross violation of consular rights and for a barbaric behaviour. Besides, by keeping the suspense until the very end in the face of a muscular Indian response, the US is thumbing its nose at a country with which it has been striving to develop a deep, strategic relationship after nearly fifty years of being in the cold. Seema Sirohi's description of a 'nascent relationship' is apt and why is the US going to enormous extent to wreck it at this stage for the cause of a maid who after all has not even been treated badly in the first place. The US knows that India has been taking all sorts of insults without squealing and they must therefore have been really pi$$ed off when they react in this way now and so it needs to back off to save the 'nascent and fragile relationship' especially as it was not really worth such unpleasantness when no case existed at all. Yet, it has chosen to adopt an intransigent path which makes matters even worse. There is certainly something more sinister here.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 31 Dec 2013 07:55

Full credit to Obama for appointing a dumb crook called john kerrorist and this has blown all the cover off the deceit,lies,subterfuge about US policy to India.

DK issue is just the tip of the iceberg.Its the not so well concealed rage in Foggy Bottom boiling over.

The real issues are BD,Afghanistan,Cashmere and India not yielding to Amir Khan pressures.

John Kerrorist was not an innocent bystander,but the one who orchestrated and executed the incident.Thats why he has a big egg on his face.He has shown to be a buffoon who just did not understand Indias resolve to be in charge of the subcontinent and not be a lackey in the "South Asia" nonsense drawn up in Dupleecity.

To backtrack means Kerrorist has to take the blame on himself for he was actively involved all along.No wonder,theres a stalemate.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Dec 2013 07:58

More on the American minimum wage:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/3 ... own-tables

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Dec 2013 08:02

http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion ... 966731.ece

Bring Washington to its senses

Bharat Karnad

One wishes that in matters of terrorist strikes and diplomatic provocations of the kind that the Devyani Khobragade affair represents, the Indian government had the wit and long discovered the merit of reacting instantly and in tit-for-tat manner. Thus, the 26/11 and, earlier the attack on Parliament, should have been answered within 20 minutes of the onset of the attacks with Indian Air Force sorties out of Udhampur to decimate Lashkar-e-Taiba training sites, concentration areas, and supply depots in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, the co-ordinates for which targets are readily available. And once the atrocious treatment of the Indian deputy consul general (DCG) at the hands of the US Marshals became known, an immediate counter ought to have been the public arrest of one of the American DCGs posted in Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad, and Kolkata and a proper “cavity search” by rough-hewn local cops. This option is unavailable to India now as it will appear calculated, not reflexive.

Instead, in each instance New Delhi’s seemingly incurable habit of inaction kicked in. 26/11 was responded to with mere threats, the attack on Parliament by time-consuming “mobilisation for general war” that achieved nothing, and the outrage against the Indian DCG by tarrying, with the urgency and value of immediate like-action being lost as the external affairs minister Salman Khurshid sought “dialogue” with Washington. Procrastination reduced India’s honour to a trifle-able commodity and the principle of parity of treatment of diplomats a joke.

{"Delay is the worst form of denial" Prof Northcote Parkinson}

The more the situation unfolded the clearer it became that this was a larger drama contrived between the self-promoting and ambitious Preet Bharara, the ex-Chandigarh NRI and US attorney for Manhattan (2nd District), and the Bureau for Diplomatic Security (BDS) within the US state department responsible for the security of foreign diplomats displaying sheer incompetence or, alternatively, seeking to stir up momentary excitement. Bharara knew perfectly well how this action would burnish his reputation in US circles and play out in India. The BDS apparently deliberately ignored the informal understanding Washington has with a bunch of European and Third World nations, including India, regarding domestic help brought into the US by diplomats on A-3 or G-5 visas who earn wages that are sub-par only by the US standard. This year, some 2,200 such visas were issued by the US state department. But it was Bharara’s call to home in only on Khobragade that BDS acquiesced in.

True to its nature, the slack-willed Manmohan Singh government stuck to its by now well-known script by doing little beyond ending the system of unilateral benefits the US embassy and consulates and US-origin staff have enjoyed from the ’60s onwards their Indian counterparts stationed in America can only dream of. Absent a reciprocal agreement relating to terms and conditions of work, and the slate of rights, privileges, exemptions, and immunities the diplomats of the two nations will henceforth enjoy, Washington should be warned that the US diplomats and US-origin consular staff, who are paid a handsome sum as “hardship-posting” allowance in India, will start earning it. Absolute parity of treatment down to the minutest detail will obtain decorum and balance so far missing in the bilateral relations.

{How can it be hardship posting with so much duty free liquor every week?}

Sadly, India subsided in the face of US secretary of state John Kerry’s merely expressing “regrets” and undersecretary Wendy Sherman “remorse” which, considering the perverse behaviour of the US Marshals against Khobragade, amounted to salting the wound. New Delhi is even wavering in its demand for an unambiguous apology combined with closure of the case against the DCG in New York—the minimum needed in the circumstances. How the US government manages that is its business. New Delhi need only insist it will be satisfied with nothing less.

This disruptive episode in India-US relations points to two very dissimilar trends—one regarding the conduct of Indian foreign policy, the other concerning subterranean forces busily at work to undermine India strategically, with the former assisting the latter. The fact is harsh actions at the ground or tactical level are in no way antithetical to strategically burgeoning bilateral ties as long as the two streams are not mixed up. Practising an almost amateurish brand of diplomacy, New Delhi seems unable to pull it off. The Indian government expects that mutually beneficial ties must result in benignity all-round and that, as in this case, a friendly US had no business dealing in an unfriendly manner with an Indian envoy. This is to ignore the bureaucratic politics constantly buffeting policies in large countries.

{Complexity as I was alluding to in the FP thread}

In Washington, there is a powerful lobby within the state department that is unconvinced that getting close to India will benefit the US much. An equally strong lobby in the US department of defence, motivated by emerging Asian geopolitics, a declining military budget and capacity for projecting power, is persuaded that without India drawing China’s attention away from the East Sea and the western Pacific, the US may have its hands fuller than it would wish. The reason for the outrage Khobragade experienced—attributed by some to the Obama administration’s supposedly growing “indifference” to India—doesn’t make sense, because from the US perspective too much is at stake for the “strategic partnership” to be so casually imperiled, particularly as strong Indo-US security links are deemed prudent and necessary by both countries.

What then is the best riposte, albeit belated, to the evidence of an unacceptable US attitude? India has just the leverage—an analog of the A-3 visa conundrum faced by the ministry of external affairs when posting diplomats to the US, where hiring native domestic help is unaffordable but taking Indian servants along risks Indian diplomats to arbitrary invocation by the US authorities of legally-enforceable standards of minimum wage. It can require that the large horde of Indians employed by the US embassy and consulates be paid salaries at the US-level, which will raise the wage-bill manifold. And, besides imposing curbs on US diplomats, several multi-billion dollar arms deals in the pipeline should be frozen. It will quickly bring Washington to its senses.

Bharat Karnad is professor at the Centre for Policy Research and blogs at http://www.bharatkarnad.com

BK is proposing reciprocal measures. In chaos theory, when confronted by a random outlier like this outrage the response has to be massive and in a very different area. Managers don't like black swans for it requires massive response.

One angle not considered is if this outrage is a way of US assuring TSP that India won't get the high table as long as US has it within its powers. Recall 2014 draw down is near.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 31 Dec 2013 08:25

Swapan Das Gupta says it all

Our pride, and the NRI prejudice

The fuss over Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade’s maid has had an immediate fallout on Indo-US bilateral relations. Given that this was an affair involving diplomatic protocol and even national sovereignty, this was only to be expected. Less anticipated, however, was the impact of this controversy on two very separate groups of Indians: the middle class Indians resident in India and their social counterparts now resident in the West. Far from acting in unison, circumstances have propelled both groups to turn on each other with a measure of hostility that was unimaginable.

At the heart of the dispute is the vexed “servants” question. To the middle class Indians with a reasonable exposure to the West, the charges levelled by the nanny-cum-domestic help were easily explained. Sangeeta Richards’ status in the US was directly linked to the tenure of her employer. If she wished to acquire a permanent right to live and work in the US, she had to carve out an independent status for herself. This was only possible by charging her employer with violating her human rights and depicting herself as a victim of servitude. This she successfully did by preying on the gullibility of do-gooders who are accustomed to viewing the Third World as an undifferentiated area of darkness. Indeed, by blending piousness with America’s self-perception as the world’s good cop, Richards was even able to secure the ‘evacuation’ of her family from Indian tyranny.

This was the story most middle class Indians and the mandarins in South Block, including those slightly embarrassed by the dodgy track record of a member of India’s Dalit aristocracy, chose to believe. To them, the domestic help was a street smart operator out to short-circuit the US immigration rules. If that meant levelling extraordinary charges against her employer, she was game.

Predictably, in a battle involving the country of their birth and the land of their adoption, overseas Indians had to exercise an unenviable choice. There was, quite naturally, a large degree of envy at work. Many who earned much, much more than Devyani’s modest relatively salary resented the fact that purported diplomatic status allowed her to maintain a flat in Manhattan and import a maid from India who was paid less than the going New York rate.

It didn’t stop at that. The journey from envy to resentment involved frenzied breast-beating over how Indians habitually treated ‘servants’ disgustingly and how the relationship was deeply exploitative. Overseas Indians who were hitherto happy to enjoy the luxuries of domestic help during their holidays in India, suddenly woke up to the belief that privileged Indians lacked any form of social conscience. The subtext was also apparent: by emigrating to the First World, these sons and daughters of India had exorcised themselves of the accumulated sins of their families in the subcontinent. Judging from the visceral comments on social media, it almost seemed that those who had migrated westwards had done so as a protest against an iniquitous social order. India, it was tacitly suggested, could redeem itself by transplanting the transactional social relationships of the New World into a society that is pre-modern, modern and postmodern at the same time.

For many Indian-Americans, the Devyani Khobragade affair was akin to the Tebbit test of loyalty. There may have been some awkwardness with the high-handed treatment of a woman diplomat but, overall, there was vigorous nodding approval for District Attorney Preet Bharara’s carping suggestion that the US wasn’t accustomed to treating important people with kid gloves. In exercising choice, those who India likes to view as its overseas citizens, chose to spurn the old country.

This is a lesson that won’t be easily forgotten in India. For the past decade at least, the New World and even some European countries have proceeded on the assumption that ethnic Indians are better able to understand India and relate to Indians than the average white or black. The assumption has often been questioned by Indians. Anecdotal experience suggests that Indians with different passports have a monumental chip on their shoulder. After Devyani’s Bharara encounter this prejudice is certain to turn into a conviction. It won’t be a bad idea if the West acts on this realization.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2013 08:28

from TOI print edition today - Indian alleges human rights violation by US embassy
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 156580.cms

it is news that not only the state dept on its home territory employs "human rights" writers but even the US embassy here employs such people!
and this woman was thrown out because she was accused of being "pro NHRC and pro GOI" ... did not write enough drain inspector reports!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Dec 2013 08:29

Rony, You know Swapan Dasgupta is only partially right like the curates egg.
But he is generalizing. His anecdotal evidence is flawed otherwise BRF wouldn't be there.