Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

[SSridhar]

China urges India to protect peace after border altercation - REUTERS

China's Foreign Ministry on Wednesday urged India to protect the peace and stability of the border region after Indian sources said the soldiers of the two Asian giants were involved in an altercation in the western Himalayas.

On Tuesday, a source in New Delhi, who had been briefed on the military situation on the border, said soldiers foiled a bid by a group of Chinese troops to enter Indian territory in Ladakh, near the Pangong lake. Some of the Chinese soldiers carried iron rods and stones, and troops on both sides suffered minor injuries in the melee, the source said. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said she did not know the details of the most recent incident.

“But what I can tell you is that Chinese border forces have consistently and always dedicated themselves to protecting peace and tranquillity on the China-India border region and we have always patrolled on the Chinese side of the line of control," Ms. Hua told a daily news briefing.

“We urge the Indian side to scrupulously abide by relevant agreements, protocols and rules between the two countries and earnestly respect the 1959 line of control and earnestly protect the peace and stability of the border region.”

China says the line of control was set in 1959 but India has disputed that. China's Defence Ministry has yet to comment on the matter. The two sides have frequently accused each other of territorial intrusions, but clashes are rare.

An Indian official briefed on the matter also said “flag meetings", or ceremonies involving Chinese and Indian soldiers at five points along the frontier usually held on the August 15, were cancelled on Tuesday.

The official said the event was marked more informally, with both sides' troops exchanging sweets at several places, including the Doklam area, where the stand-off has lasted almost two months.

[Narad]

A day after Ladakh scuffle, India & China Army officers to meet in Leh

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/army-of ... 087852.cms

Funny bunch of losers!! What happened to the "we_wont_talk_until_India_withdraws_unilaterally" bravado..

[schinnas]

New York Times on India China standoff

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/worl ... reath.html

One wonders if it is one of the drawbacks of India not being forceful in putting her points across in world forums . NYT is toeing the typical Chinese line of a “dominating” India “suffocating” Bhutan in not allowing them independent foreign policy and hinting as much Indian troops prevented Chinese army without any ‘explicit” request from Bhutanese govt , conveniently ignoring the land grabbing that Chinese typically employ before playing victims.

Fighting a big country from another country's land will give rise a to problems in the long term. No PR can solve it. That's the reason India needs to do an exchange with Bhutan and get control over Dolam plateau with Bhutan getting equivalent land to it's east.

MEA should work out a very enticing offer with Bhutan. In fact we should have done it long back given how critical Chickens neck area is to us. Now with the controversy, it would be difficult for Bhutan to do a swap with India if China vehemently opposes it. Such a deal should be kept under wraps until it is concluded legally.

[rsingh]

China seem to have virtually occupied POK, potential threat to us? Make it so much harder to recover POK.

On other hand quite impressive infra structure. Wish we had such things in India.

[chola]

Eh, too many short rice eaters on either side of the border in this "conflict."

If one side or the other was TFTA, there would be war already.

[ricky_v]

With regards to the NYT hack job, who is the targeted audience for this jaundiced viewpoint?
The global chinis already have their cpc resources, the natives are brainwashed and incapable of independent thought except to perhaps do ho-hai arm flailing stuff,
local Indians know that they are evil big brothers as has been repeated ad nauseam,
smaller brother populations know how dangerous our designs are having experienced it first hand living off our land illegally
,the wider gora populace shiver in their denims when hearing about china and now they are told that another amoral nation is oppressing the downtrodden;most are busy patrolling statues and the others would at least think once about Tibet, essentially an equal-equal comparison to the lizards done by the lizards themselves.
The people in the know could care less if the author had interviewed "Gan Mar Li" an authentic Bhutanese guy who would have called an exorcism on the Indians. The traitors amongst our midst's would always be against national interests, it is known, and the ones calling the shots wont base their decision based on comment wars in any publication or the shrill rhetoric of the presstitues whatever their nationality.
If one the other hand the author means to subvert Bhutanese line of thought, he could have also asked, "What do you think about Tibet which we captured, and the leader fled to the very country you are giving opinions against?" or simply "Do you want happiness like the Tibetans?"

[Bart S]

China seem to have virtually occupied POK, potential threat to us? Make it so much harder to recover POK.

On other hand quite impressive infra structure. Wish we had such things in India.

If you are referring to the highway, we have plenty of such stuff in India and it's only going to grow at an exponential rate. There is still much to be done but such 'broad brush' statements are a tad unfair I think.

This was built 20 years ago, BTW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGrqk8c5Fa4

Also, that infrastructure in POK is limited to that one highway that the Chinese have built, the rest of the areas are in pathetic condition, without even a single civilian airport of note or any kind of useful train services. The infrastructure for the general public on our side is much better, and that was done despite the odds, facing terrorism and a hostile, ungrateful populace.

Somethings like seeing 8-lane roads in the city are just not widely possible in India due to the existing congestion and the difficulty of moving people out mixed with politicians and judiciary creating obstacles - something that China and Porkistan can just bulldoze through as they are police/army states.

[UlanBatori]

the event was marked more informally, with both sides' troops exchanging sweets at several places, including the Doklam area, where the stand-off has lasted almost two months.

That settles the dispute. Chinese come as tourists into Indian territory and celebrate I-Day with our own. EXCELLENT!! Hope they also joined in singing and dancing:

Bhalat ka lahnewara hum
Bhalat ki raddoo khata hum!

Beloveds! We need a video showing the above! In their Mao jackets they will cut quite a sharp round image!

Next step: a (tennis ball... don't want to start a war here) cricket match, to teach elementary rules of sportsmanship to these iklaute munne.

[UlanBatori]

Dang! What is the MEA doing, not publishing those pics of Chinese with cheeks full of laddoos! That should go viral worldwide!

[Karthik S]

So will the ITBP be issued pellet guns now?

[sum]

New York Times on India China standoff

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/worl ... reath.html

One wonders if it is one of the drawbacks of India not being forceful in putting her points across in world forums . NYT is toeing the typical Chinese line of a “dominating” India “suffocating” Bhutan in not allowing them independent foreign policy and hinting as much Indian troops prevented Chinese army without any ‘explicit” request from Bhutanese govt , conveniently ignoring the land grabbing that Chinese typically employ before playing victims.

MEA should work out a very enticing offer with Bhutan. In fact we should have done it long back given how critical Chickens neck area is to us. Now with the controversy, it would be difficult for Bhutan to do a swap with India if China vehemently opposes it. Such a deal should be kept under wraps until it is concluded legally.

Is the chicken neck really in such a bad state as we always seem to portray?
From all accounts,that area is a literal fortress and doubt any power can do any mischief in that tract due to the sheer weight of forces in that vicinity

[yensoy]

^^^^ The alleged weakness of the Chickens neck also assumes that the folks on the Eastern side somehow are going to give a hero's welcome to their lizard liberators. And somehow lizard's long logistic lines from Lhasa will provide the necessities of life to the 40 or so million people resident there.

Taking control is one thing, holding on to it is something entirely different. And of course we know even taking control of the fortress isn't going to be the cakewalk gobar times is making it out to be.

[KLNMurthy]

China seem to have virtually occupied POK, potential threat to us? Make it so much harder to recover POK.

...

On other hand quite impressive infra structure. Wish we had such things in India.

China owns and exploits everything we have vs. TFTA infra which only China is capable of...

Tough choice, what to do, what to do?

[sampat]

Chinese Australians in supercars protest India on its 70th Independence day

[kancha]

Cross posted from the Middle Kingdom Positive News Thread

Just finished reading this book. Highly recommended for the good folks on this forum as well.
The authors were white expats who stayed in China for a long time and published this book after first hand observation of the Chinese society. A brutal commentary on the warts that the CCP tries hard to hide.

[nam]

Chinese Australians in supercars protest India on its 70th Independence day

Despite our decades of fight with Pakis never heard of Pakis doing this in anywhere outside Pakiland. Nor is there is a known case of Indian employees being fired just because of issues between governments.

These lot do not dare to do ti against Americans. There will no protest nor firing of American employees. The pain seems to be that lowly 1/5 of their GDP , SDRE dare to show eyes to TFTA China. Fundamentally a racist and arrogant attitude.

If the Chinis attack, we might face causalities, but need to make sure lot of single son families receive their future caretaker in body bags. The bullies need to be fought hard.

[kancha]

Chinese Australians in supercars protest India on its 70th Independence day

A grand total of TEN cars protested and how!

The cars revved their engines loudly outside the Consulate General of India in Sydney, to protest against India

[yensoy]

^^^^ The Huawei/Iran sacking employees story comes to us from a single source and isn't corroborated elsewhere. The article refers to a twitter post from an account which belongs to a Congress party worker. There is an embedded image with the alleged firings at twitter posts, but can't click into it - someone with more knowledge of twitter can maybe try. This doesn't smell right to me - probably another instance of fake news.

If Huawei were to target and fire Indians, I can imagine it would be bad PR for them within India.

[Mukesh.Kumar]

Chinese Australians in supercars protest India on its 70th Independence day

A grand total of TEN cars protested and how!

The cars revved their engines loudly outside the Consulate General of India in Sydney, to protest against India

Pool Pee Ell See citizens could only hire ten super cars at a go.

[shiv]

A grand total of TEN cars protested and how!

The cars revved their engines loudly outside the Consulate General of India in Sydney, to protest against India

This is scary..

[shiv]

China seem to have virtually occupied POK, potential threat to us? Make it so much harder to recover POK.

One thing about the Chinese. They do not believe in living in jhopdis, or in using bad roads. If they build stuff they built good looking stuff even if build quality is bad. I say this in the context of looking for Chinese occupation of Gilgit-Baltistan. There is very little evidence of general occupation. Typically you will see evidence of Chines activity along the Karakoram highway. I have not seen much outside that. The Chinese like separate gated communities even when they are in Chinese occupied land like Tibet. just a few Km into Xinjiang just past the Karakoram pass is a typical Chinese military base. Walled - and with defensive trenches and all.

But I invite people to explore satellite imagery freely available to us to provide visible proof of Chinese occupation

[tandav]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0u0W5 ... VDM3c/view

An Indian attempt to understand Chinese Culture. May be of some value. It's a PDF

[Suraj]

These Chinese actions are like bad caricatures from a Rajinikanth movie. Random middle aged women wagging umbrellas at India. Spoiled princelings being told to wake up before noon and go rev their Lambo engine in front of Indian consulate, before heading back home to sniff another line of crack and booze themselves silly. What's next ? Some China thambi going to run over my toes with his shopping cart at Costco while I'm reaching for a box of Haldiram dhokla ?

[sanjaykumar]

Mostly Bentleys.

[nam]

I am checking out some GE images of Lhasa airport and the PLAAF part.

Does these airbase even have RCC pens? Where do the Chinis store their aircraft in Lhasa. For all the bravado of bombing our airbased with rockets, Lhasa airport does not seem to have a blast pen.

[UlanBatori]

What the heck is a supel cal? Sounds like Falt Cal.

[UlanBatori]

Retaliation will be swift and fragrant - against the wall of the Chinese embassy. Or Consulate if there is one in Kolkotta. Like what happened to US Embassy some time back.

[Shankas]

Chinese Australians in supercars protest India on its 70th Independence day

A grand total of TEN cars protested and how!

The cars revved their engines loudly outside the Consulate General of India in Sydney, to protest against India

Can some Indian Charted Accountant in Sydney look up the number plates, trace ownership, then list out the business dealings and alert the tax man. We can help bring some excitement into the life of these princelings. We Indians need to start applying the "tedi ungli" to reach the ghee.

[TKiran]

Shiv sir, even though we Indians sometimes go to China and mix with ordinary Hans, Hans don't get to see the first hand information about India or for that matter in Pakistan or any other countries they are building infrastructure. They strictly use prisoners for infrastructure building. That's the reason why you would never see Hans in India (the general Middle class/ business class type).

Whatever little population that goes to western countries are RAPE types, from western countries they may come here on some specific assignments. For example, Bombardier supplied rolling stocks for Tibet railway, but I never saw any Han engineers coming to Derby UK, or Crespin France, or Meinham Germany or Winterthur Switzerland, where they got the design done. You will be surprised that more than 70 % of design work was done by Indian engineers. (Ofcourse ultimately copied and precious intellectual property was lost, when Hans re-engineered, bombardier lost a lot due to a few euros of profit, but that's a different story)
The point I was trying to make is that there are no Hans who can survive in a foreign country on their own (the ordinary ones, not the RAPE types).

Whatever little they learn about India is shere propaganda, and if you can understand what I mean by India is in the blind spot for Hans, that would be the best explanation I could give about Han attitude towards Indians

[tandav]

There are many parallels between Islamists and Sinicists in how the devout individuals professing such faith act in the defence thier Islamic or Chinese ideology.
0) They have been brainwashed by their respective mullahs or CPC propogandu from childhood.
1) They will never extend freedoms that they take for granted outside their Dar-ul-Islam or Dar-ul-Sina to outsiders inside their territory.
2) They will not respect or tolerate other thought processes.
3) They will form radical cells to undertake offensive operations outside borders.
4) The supercar driving radicalized Chinese who threaten to kill Indians for standing against China are no different from Islamists wanting to kill anybody they believe is insulting Islam for Blasphemy.
5) Continually try to extend their borders by either religious conversion (Islam) or land acquisition (China)

[nam]

Looked at Golmud as well. There is some structure but has no short link to the runaway. It also does not look like have any serious blast pens either here.

So we wait for Chinis to build the blast pens. let it dry and then they will attack?

[shiv]

Scary. Scaaaaaaaary as hell..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbF6WFpsXOU

[Deans]

I am checking out some GE images of Lhasa airport and the PLAAF part.

Does these airbase even have RCC pens? Where do the Chinis store their aircraft in Lhasa. For all the bravado of bombing our airbased with rockets, Lhasa airport does not seem to have a blast pen.

There are no aircraft pens of any kind in Lhasa. The J11's on the tarmac have no place to hide.
Compare that with our forward bases in Gorakhpur or Hashimara. More reinforced concrete pens than the aircraft normally stationed at these bases.

[kancha]

Had posted a blog on PLA - Calling The Bluff last weekend, basically on how the PLA peacekeepers ran away for dear life when they came under fire in Juba, South Sudan.

One of the replies by someone who has apparently served at Nathu La. Says a lot!

That Chinese troops could be soft would be apparent by the fact that at Nathu La in 1992, they would do anything to obtain a ‘ ‘Tashy’. These were playing cards having Nude Models displayed on each. They would even give their Coat Parka in return. During Flag meetings they would concentrate more on the eats being served. During the leaner months from February to May they would beg for water that was normally available on our side of the Sikkim watershed. At times resorting to begging for a bucket or two. They would not go down to their side of the border because it had forced to lugged up to higher altitudes. They are soft and Cheekoo enough to blush before our burly troops.

[Singha]

Cough cough

http://m.timesofindia.com/business/indi ... 078128.cms

[Suraj]

It really pleases me to see GoI being proactive at restricting and imposing duties on Chinese goods. This is exactly the line of response I had favored in my earlier posts a week ago. It is easy to implement, effective and demonstrates directly that GoI can hurt Chinese economic interests in India on demand, at will.

[Karthik S]

China seem to have virtually occupied POK, potential threat to us? Make it so much harder to recover POK.

One thing about the Chinese. They do not believe in living in jhopdis, or in using bad roads. If they build stuff they built good looking stuff even if build quality is bad. I say this in the context of looking for Chinese occupation of Gilgit-Baltistan. There is very little evidence of general occupation. Typically you will see evidence of Chines activity along the Karakoram highway. I have not seen much outside that. The Chinese like separate gated communities even when they are in Chinese occupied land like Tibet. just a few Km into Xinjiang just past the Karakoram pass is a typical Chinese military base. Walled - and with defensive trenches and all.

But I invite people to explore satellite imagery freely available to us to provide visible proof of Chinese occupation

For one true god's sake take PoK back already, apart from many other things it will give direct access to Afghanistan and Central Asia. All our energy needs will be met. Wish someone is on the drawing board regarding this.

[samirdiw]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07465TYH6?_e ... UTF8&psc=1

A new book has been released on Chinese Spying into India.

Some highlights

- The intelligence details gathered by the Chinese on Bhutan /India NE is very high (China intelligence of SU is higher than what US got of SU at its peak by 78 its )
- Such level of details cannot just be gathered by spies scouting the area but by insiders including folks at high level in the corps level HQ or in Delhi
- China has low-level plans for attack on Tezpur/4th Army corps HQ/AF HQ and the Kalibhmora bridge crossing brahmaputra
- Plans for disrupting communication links between the NE troops - Again some of these info available only by inside information
- Chinese modus operand: They first send grazers; if not objected to, the grazers visit every year; then a small patrol is sent; the following year a tent (representing the Civil Administration) is planted. After a few years, it becomes 'Chinese territory administrated by China since immemorial times.'
- Bhutanese should have sent the 'nomads' rolling down the hill the first time they got there.
- In case of attack on Bhutan the first target is the Kings location in Bhutan. They have exact number of people guarding, low-level details - leaked out probably by Bhutanese insider
- Have defense plans of defense of Tawang (circular structure which is similar to defence of Kohima against japan in ww2) - leaked out by Indian insider
- They know exactly what regiments are assigned including the reserves to each battalion, the number of troops, the weaponry etc -leaked out by some Indian insider
- Attack on Chicken neck via Sikkim is impossible (they aren't even planning it for now meaning 2007) due to many reasons not least the push back in 67 and now in 2017. If you give them something they start thinking how to get more (Seems like not too different from our Paki brothers)
- The Chinese army knows what the facts are but insists on cheating and lying to grab more territory from India and Bhutan
- The Chinese language and methods used within the govt dept is different from everyday language and difficult for folks learning Chinese from training schools to understand
- Indian departments should aggressively go after the spies who are selling military secrets to China and Pakistan
- Xi and some folks are the gangsters. There are many in China including in the PLA and CPC who resent this attitude.
- On the long term China or India will dominate Asia. While China has its advantage in 2017 it is upto the people of India to go and take the initiative. The more dedicated nation will win.

[vasu raya]

The Sydney incident with the engine revving is reminiscent of 'fast and furious' type Juvenile games, probably their comfort zone. Though their "border is the baseline" message espouses a maximalist position

and their PLA brethren aren't too far either throwing stones first and pulling a paki by denying it officially and do some lecturing on peace

if IA or CRPF had used those tennis ball throwing machines suitably modded for stones in J&K, it probably would have set a different SOP; In any case LeT or HM inspired/trained PLA tactics should be the phrase used referring to the Ladakh incident.

[ArjunPandit]

Chinese Australians in supercars protest India on its 70th Independence day

At least it takes care of DrRatandip's concern that two nook powers fighting with stones. They are showing their money. Wish we had some more haans in india, who could be given a quick tour of Haryana asola village or their flagbearers in sahara mall for their trainings of next round of jostling/pushing/shoving