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Pakjabi Jernail's first thought will be where is Arora when you need one.Raymond wrote:The Beast.enqyoob wrote:
What if the Pakjabi General officer corps suddenly find themselves alone on the Waziri rock slopes ..... with the vultures circling above, and a hundred pairs of eyes peering at them over the ridges around them, and a hundred flashes of knives in the setting sun?
Helicopter cover is no good at night in the canyons. F-16s are even less useful.
OK, bed time.... with that sweet dream for the health of the Pakjabi Fauj.
harbans wrote:In real world there is nothing like humane THINK SELF INTEREST and then how to justify it with nice words like above when writing about them.
I'm sorry but your loud tone here reflects thinking based out of typically a shortage culture. Grab before the next guy to you does so. You translate that into serving self interest or now National Interest. Surprising you know so little about self preservation.
Your type of thinking may not be very hard to beat. But it's ugliness is very easy to disrespect.
Amen.
Especially Chinese made weapons or the weapons confiscated in Kosmir .vinayak_d wrote:still nothing would beat supplying some weapons to the pashtoons to make life miserable for PA.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2007_pg3_1ramana wrote: North and South Waziristan - out of control.
Bajaur and Mohmand agencies - getting out of control
Tank and Dera Ismail Khan in trouble.
A parallel government is already functioning in South Waziristan with effective outreach into such settled areas of the NWFP as DI Khan, Kohat-Bannu and the provincially administered tribal area of Swat, where the police is either under pressure or has simply run away from the fight. Those who want to negotiate with Baitullah Mehsud, the ruler of South Waziristan and an indirect "controller" of the NWFP, will have to consider a number of factors. The territory they think they can repossess through talks is already "lost" and these talks will have to face tough Al Qaeda conditionalities.
With Swat, Bannu, Kohat out of TSP coverage area, effectively TSP has no control this entire region.A parallel government is already functioning in South Waziristan with effective outreach into such settled areas of the NWFP as DI Khan, Kohat-Bannu and the provincially administered tribal area of Swat, where the police is either under pressure or has simply run away from the fight.
Time to issue a new stampSanjay M wrote:Wow, Musharraf criticizes Pakistani soldiers for being captured:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7042078.stm
I opened that site and clicked on the "Whats Up" Tab. This is what I get :SwamyG wrote:Here is FATA's homepage: http://fata.gov.pk/
WHATS UP!!!
NO NEWS FOUND
} Eric Margolis may have been posting images on that websiteSome of the locals look like Punjabis, others can pass for Europeans.
That piece of land has been ruled / influenced by diverse folks, including Greeks.parshu wrote:Interesting pictures on the FATA website. Some of the locals look like Punjabis, others can pass for Europeans. Pathans are not part of our Hindustani composite culture which the Punjabi Paks and Sindhis are. They have more in common with Iranians and Central Asians. Certainly if the time comes back to retake the lost bits of Aryavarta ( only a possibility in a post-nuclear Armageddon scenario) we should allow the FATAs to reintegrate with their homeland Afghanistan and manage their own future
(AP) Pakistani aircraft bombed a village bazaar packed with shoppers near the Afghan border Tuesday, pushing the death toll to 250 in four days of fighting _ the deadliest clashes since Pakistan threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on terror in 2001.
The attack on Epi village in North Waziristan tribal region killed dozens of militants and civilians _ deaths that are likely to harden domestic opposition to President Gen. Pervez Musharraf's alliance with Washington.
The bazaar was crowded with people buying food to break their daylong Ramadan fast when it was rocked by a dozen explosions that destroyed shops and nearby homes, residents said. Abdul Sattar, a grocery shop owner, said he counted more than 60 dead and more than 150 wounded, including many civilians. Many of the victims were mutilated.
"Some did not have heads, hands or legs. Some people were searching for their children and women," Sattar told The Associated Press by telephone from Epi.
Army spokesman Maj. Gen. Waheed Arshad said military aircraft targeting militant hideouts struck "one or two places" near the town of Mir Ali _ located about 2 1/2 miles from Epi _ and local tribesmen reported about 50 militants were killed.
He said the airstrikes might have killed some civilians who were living in the areas where militant hideouts were targeted, but he had no exact numbers.
"We had confirmed reports about the presence of militants, and the air power was used to target those militant hideouts," he told the AP.
Another resident, Noor Hassan, said both militants and civilians were killed and that he was fleeing the area. He said the nearby village of Hader Khel also was bombed.
The fighting broke out in North Waziristan on Saturday after a roadside bomb hit a truckload of paramilitary troops, sparking bitter clashes. The bodies of dozens of soldiers, many with their throats slit, have been recovered from deserted areas of the region, fleeing residents said.
The violence comes as Musharraf tries to secure another term as president, vowing to shore up Pakistan's effort against Islamic extremism, particularly in its border regions where Osama bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahri are suspected to hide.
Pakistani troops have suffered mounting losses as they try to reassert state authority in a swath of mountainous territory where warlords supportive of the Taliban and al-Qaida have seized control. Now the army appears to be resorting to heavy firepower.
Sattar, the shop owner, accused the army of "oppressing" the local Pashtun tribespeople. He said journalists should visit the area so they could see that the "miscreants" _ a byword in Pakistan for militants _ targeted by security forces were in fact women and children.
Pakistan struck a controversial cease-fire deal with militants in North Waziristan last year. U.S. officials criticized the pact, claiming it gave a safe haven for al-Qaida and provided a rear base for Taliban guerrillas fighting NATO troops in Afghanistan.
In July, Pakistan's army redeployed troops at key checkpoints in the region, sparking fresh hostilities. Security forces have since suffered more than 250 casualties, many of them in suicide bombings, and more than 230 soldiers have been kidnapped.
The escalating clashes have sparked debate in Pakistan on whether military action _ widely perceived as done at the bidding of the United States despite Musharraf's insistence it is in the national interest _ can curb Islamic extremism or only serves to enflame it.
"Rather than losing soldiers and killing civilians in indiscriminate bombings (the government) should revive the peace agreements with tribesmen and devise an effective strategy to flush out foreign militants," an editorial in The Nation daily said Tuesday.
Prior to Tuesday's airstrikes, the army reported that battles have killed 150 militant fighters and 45 soldiers since Saturday, wile about 12-15 troops were missing.
It is the most intense episode of fighting on the Pakistan side of the border since Musharraf first sent troops to its lawless tribal regions in late 2001.
The army said in a statement it had rejected a cease-fire proposed by the militants and will "continue punitive action until complete peace is restored."
On Sunday, about 300 militants ambushed an army convoy traveling to the scene of a roadside bombing, killing 22 troops and wounding 11, an intelligence official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to journalists.
One resident of Isu Khel village said three soldiers came to his home asking for protection but he refused, fearing he might be targeted by militants. Others said they saw the bodies of soldiers in deserted areas and on the side of the road between the region's two main towns, Mir Ali and Miran Shah.
Many victims' throats were slit, they said.
A woman, who fled to Miran Shah, said she saw eight soldiers who had been shot dead. The bodies were covered in dust and one was mutilated, she said.
The villagers spoke to the AP on condition their names not be used because they feared reprisals.
On Monday, the army used artillery and fighter jets against militant targets in Isu Khel and nearby Melagan village, where announcements were being made from mosques urging authorities not to target civilian areas, residents said.
The intelligence official also said Monday that a dozen civilians had died when a shell struck their home in Mir Ali. It was unclear who fired the shell.
Arshad said some houses had been targeted that were being used for attacks on security forces and some residents may have died.
___
Associated Press writer Sadaqat Jan in Islamabad contributed to this report.
But this thread and the Baluchistan Genocide thread are absolutely vital. vsudhir: You are mixing the Pathans for the Baluchis. Karachi is where the Baluchis are in good numbers. You can google for the exact percentages. Quetta is in Baluchistan. The FATA has 7 areas (Where Waziristan is)which straddle between NWFP and Balushistan. To the north of NWFP is Chitral, which acts as a buffer between the Tajik region in Afghanistan and the NA of India, illegally occupied by TSP.vsudhir wrote:Anybody have any info on how many pushtus there are in the major nontribal urban centers of TSP?
I read somewhere that Karachi has as many as 25% pushtu popn. The TSPA itself is sopme 25%+ pushtu. No?
Can anyone confirm? Also, they make something like half of Quetta and all of Peshawar. But what about the critical hubs like LaWhore and Izloo?
This group in the plains is what will hopefully take the civil war into where it hurts TSP.
TIA.
They certainly will fight but in the end the folks getting slaughtered will be the Pashtuns. Do not get me wrong, the Pashtuns and tribals will give it good to the PA but without external support, these folks stand no chance, against the PA.JCage wrote:As long as tribalism and Islam remain, they will continue to murder and plunder. It is in our interest that they, as a group, are so shattered by conflict and mayhem that they are happy enough to survive and not wage war on others.
BTW I believe if they join Afghanistan then they will be the majority in greater Afghanistan and eventually can turn around once the ME becomes Nestorian.
The best way to do that is to be able to pay the TSP in its own coin by ensuring the PA is engaged in a long term struggle with the Pashtuns, supported by Afghanistan, who in turn are supported by India.Ramana, you are talking of centuries here. This long term view is good, but frankly, its best to speak softly and carry a big stick and show the neighbourhood mongrels who is boss.
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Gaieties of Eid
After a month of fasting, prayers and abstinence comes the blissful day of Eidul Fitr for the faithful to rejoice and share their rejoicings. A day of gaiety, frolicking jovial children in their new dresses and their sisters with henna painted on their hands and with bangles on their arms make it a colourful occasion. Their mothers cook special foods to treat them to a feast. The festivity cuts across the spectrum; even the poor fathers somehow manage for the family to celebrate. Nonetheless, sadly enough, the faithful have, apart from their piety, not much to rejoice about this time round. The national landscape is cluttered with too many uncertainties, too many concerns and too many worries to make for a happy day. The reigning general is given to accusing the media of spreading despondency. But it is the street which is saying loudly that it is not at all happy. The media are just reflecting its screams over its being bitten unbearably by spiraling cost of living, joblessness and insecurity of life and property. Yet more sadly, from the north are coming out doleful cries from our tribal compatriots, pitched in a predicament they had not asked for and had not deserved at all. In a military operation, they have lost many a loved one; their children have been orphaned and women widowed; their homes and villages have been ruined; they have fled in thousands for their lives, becoming homeless and refugees in their own homeland. Their grief is colossal; their sorrow is tragic; their plight is unenviable. Out there, there indeed is too much of gloom, percolating in every nook and corner of this blessed land. We do not want to add to it by speaking out the saddening realities swarming the ground. Marring the gaiety of the august day is far from our thought; we abhor it as a profanity. Enlivening the festivity of the day is very much our craving {exactly the same as ours at PeeAref}, even though we find it an uphill task in the given depressing conditions holding the nation in their vicious clutches. We humbly pray that each one of our compatriot would make it his day. And we do hope that our affluent homes would do all for their poor neighbours to partake in the happiness of the occasion. For once, let this cliché become a reality on this land. And to all our patrons, we say, Eid Mubarak.
DERA BUGTI- 24 inch dia gas pipeline Inflated
QUETTA: (PPI): (Mujaheddin) (inflated) 24 inch dia gas pipeline near Dera Bugti last night. According to details, (Mujaheddin) planted (celebratory) device with 24 inch dia gas pipeline some 1 Km from Dera Bugti. The pipeline supplies gas from Pirkoh to Sui plant. Due to (inflation) a five feet piece of the pipeline was blown. In another incident another pipeline was blown by (celebratory) material in Zafar Colony Sui. The pipeline supplies gas to Compressor plant form Well No 66. Similarly two poles were destroyed by (celebration). These poles were (imbroved) and bent aside. But supply continued despite partial (imbrovement). (Mujaheddin) also fired 5 rockets in Sui area. There was no report of any loss.
Operation in Waziristan
Sajjad Sajjada987@wmconnect.com
Living in Mandi Bahauddin you are very far far away from Waziristan. How could you feel their pain and the sins which they were involved in against Pakistan? Did you ever visit North Waziristan? Did you live there because Mandi is in the Punjab? How, tell me, you are suddenly concerned for the Pakhtun belt? You have always been belittling them and putting the down since 1947. I refrain from accusing the Punjabis because there are great men there, who have vision and I know many as well. I understand that there is chaos there, but tell all, was not the Punjab a great contributor to the injustice among all. How can one forget Balochistan and Sindh? That will be an injustice and sin, Muslims will feel a pain to live with, but not for long. All four provinces must amend themselves and use Qurans justice as the criteria, its one country Pakistan. When the Punjab discriminates because it is the main bread basket or industrialized, such a behavior means that it will result in many off shoots of Pakistan. This is exactly what Europe and India is looking forward to. Do not contribute to such animosity against the aims of the great Quaid, Allama Iqbal and their sacrificers for the cause of Pakistan. Millions have been killed for freedom. Not exclusively for the Punjab. Sindh was a great Host to the immigrants, include Baloch, Punjabi and also NWFP. Punjab, it is time that it must stop erecting its Dildo because others may display a far bigger one. That will be big surprise for the pride ridden.
