Blasts in delhi

Kritavarman · Post by **Kritavarman** » 13 Sep 2008 21:30

Need a firm response from GoI.

Talk for Talk and Bomb for Bomb.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 21:32

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:In India extremism has not only been a muslim concept. How about 'hindu extemism'??

1) Responsible for Gujarat Riots 1000s muslims dead
2) Member of sect Killed Gandhi
3) Destroyed Mosque Babri Masjid, again more riots god knows how many dead
4) Countless other activities too long to list, such as fighting christians, forcing conversions, shooting other convertes etc etc etc.

Lets not pretend that extremism is a 'muslim only' phenemenon. These guys are TERRORISTS who 'happened' to be muslim. Their religion is NOT IMPORTANT. They need to be hunted down and brought to justice.

BTW i am an athiest but my parents are Hindus, and i was brought up as a hindu. I have no bias against any religion.

Who in your view caused at least 18 deaths in Delhi today.

Hindu extremists or Muslim extremists?

I put it to you that your secular upbringing is squirming at the accusations being made on here prompting you to put up your message to attempt to repair the secular fabric of the nation.

A pathetic attempt in my view in the face of terror prompted by Islamic ideology.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:33

Brilliant timing Vivek

Now let me deal with your posts about Hindu extremism. I will go point by point
1) Gandhi was not killed by nor the responsibility claimed by any Hindu organization not even the Government of India said this.
2) Babri Masjid had no right to exist as it was made by breaking my mandir. It had to go!
3) Gujarat riots were a 2 way affair in which people from both communities died hence they were secular riots onlee.

By the way I am Hindu (sharam) and brought up as such and I am heavily biased communal person

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 13 Sep 2008 21:34

Keep religion out of this guys, honestly its a massive dead end, not only that its morally wrong.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:36

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 13 Sep 2008 21:37

Mr. Vivek Sreenivasan sir,
I guess, if you were braught up as hindu but today you dont believe in it of course makes you a anti-hindu. I guess you have not yet completed your journey, please join either religion of peace or religion of ...whatever. Then please enlighten us heathens. I am waiting for your gospel on how this blast, today is because of Hindus, VHP, RSS etc. My small mind and intellect cannot fanthom it- I am still a hindu just like my parents, yes I have not mordenised like you, neither I have evolved, so please help me out with your intelect. Please lay out the reasons.
Thanks,
fanne

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 21:37

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:Keep religion out of this guys, honestly its a massive dead end, not only that its morally wrong.

That is handing a walkover to Islamic terrorists. They too want to keep religion out. And they KNOW Hindus will react like you.

I am not accusing you of being a sympathiser. But I think you have to open your eyes the way people have opened their eyes on here.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 13 Sep 2008 21:37

BTW i am an athiest but my parents are Hindus

As I said before in a post, nobody stabs Hindus worse than atheists "whose parents were Hindus."

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 13 Sep 2008 21:38

We have become like the villagers who made peace with bakasur by making monthly offerings of human sacrifices at the cave of terror.

Calls for maintaining communal harmonry are fine, but beyond that, what steps GoI will take, that people will see for themselves, NOW, not 30 years from now, that will put an end to this. The first 'transistor' bombs went off in Delhi 25 years ago.

Have no doubt on Pakistan’s involvement in this one though, this Indian Mujahideen crap doesn't fool me.
There is only one ultimate source of terror - Pakistan.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 21:39

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
BTW i am an athiest but my parents are Hindus
As I said before in a post, nobody stabs Hindus worse than atheists "whose parents were Hindus."

To an extent that only shows the weakness and idiocy (naive ignorance) of Hinduism that allows atheism to coexist. Try that in Islam.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 13 Sep 2008 21:41

Vivek,
now I have to take issues with you, please do not insult our intelligence. I guess you braougfht religion in this discussion and then how dare you suggest that we do not discuss it, only you have the right? Why? Are you Rahul Gandhi or Jesus or Mohammed? Why you would have the right to bring religion into the discussion and then advice others not to?
Are you also TFTA?
thanks,
fanne

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Sep 2008 21:42

3 live bombs are defused, one from India gate. NSG brought a vehicle with a black metal cylinder
that has a bank safe type round door, put the bomb in it and took it away.

Kritavarman · Post by **Kritavarman** » 13 Sep 2008 21:43

Why Hindu's need to be secular and protect the rights of Muslim's? Time to rise above Hindu and Muslim violence. It's now Terrorist Vs India.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 13 Sep 2008 21:43

Munna i hope you were joking because they were some of the dumbest responses ive come across in a long time.

1) Gandhi WAS killed by a HINDU EXTREMIST weather you like it or not.
2) Despite all the claims to the contrary there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that a hindu temple was destroyed to build the mosque. There are no foundations or anything. Knocking down the Mosque was an EVIL ACT, just as it would be if the temples at Madurai were knocked down to build a massive mosque.
3) Gujurat riots were not a secular affair

. It was the hindu community victimizing the Muslim one in response to the hindus being burnt on the train. This again should not have been done. It was flamed by Hindu Extremism.
4) I presume that all other acts of hindu extermism such as forced conversions, fighting buddhists for converting indians, fighting christians, stopping interreligious marriage can just be conveintly forgotten heh?

Hindu extermism is just as bad as muslim extermism and in India i see no evidence that muslims have a monopoly on extermism. If you can think before spewing out garbage it would be good for you.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:43

Relax guys dont jump on him as he knows the truth

. On a serious note let us reinvent the wheel we know the facts now the question is what are the doable actions that can be undertaken.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 13 Sep 2008 21:44

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:In India extremism has not only been a muslim concept. How about 'hindu extemism'??

1) Responsible for Gujarat Riots 1000s muslims dead
2) Member of sect Killed Gandhi
3) Destroyed Mosque Babri Masjid, again more riots god knows how many dead
4) Countless other activities too long to list, such as fighting christians, forcing conversions, shooting other convertes etc etc etc.

1) figure is wrong the official figure is 780 including more than 250 hindus
2) pointless obfuscation of the issue
3) Riots killed people from both communities
4) countless other counterpoints, too long to list

PS I am a scientologist,

amitmas · Post by **amitmas** » 13 Sep 2008 21:45

shiv wrote:
amitmas wrote:I think we all need to wake up and somewhere down the line accept the fact that Indian Muslims and India terror outfits are diffrent. Yes some people may be hardliners and they should be dealt with without any reason but stereotyping communities is certainly not the way.
Yes Yes Yes.

But on the topic of waking up, you refer to certain people as "hardliners" and "terror outfits ".

Can you categorically state on here that it is your belief that the ideology of Islam has nothing to do with the motivation and actions of these "hardliners" and "terror outfits" that you mention.

I ask because I know what I think. I just want to know what you think.

Shivji,
I think Islam and the ideology has a lot to do with what happened today am no supporter of that however why use the same paintbrush and paint even Hardliners as Indian Muslims for all we know they could have been trained anywhere.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 13 Sep 2008 21:48

Sridhar Sir

NCERT was the tool the kangress and commies devised to keep successive generations of young indians away from learning about the troubled history of their motherland. I still remember those history classes where my commie history teacher was praising Babur for the golden period of Indian history.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 13 Sep 2008 21:48

So Sanjay choudry your saying that i have to choose to be a hindu or i stab hindus in the back heh? I have no right to choose my religion. I should be forced to choose an ideology that i dont believe in. Right dude i think you sound like a Hindu extermist. I have absolutely NOTHING against hinduism in particular i just think that ALL religions, are not that helpful. Look at the problems that india seems to be having, just a case in point.

sorry shiv my apoligies.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 21:49

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:Munna i hope you were joking because they were some of the dumbest responses ive come across in a long time.

1) Gandhi WAS killed by a HINDU EXTREMIST weather you like it or not.
2) Despite all the claims to the contrary there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that a hindu temple was destroyed to build the mosque. There are no foundations or anything. Knocking down the Mosque was an EVIL ACT, just as it would be if the temples at Madurai were knocked down to build a massive mosque.
3) Gujurat riots were not a secular affair . It was the hindu community victimizing the Muslim one in response to the hindus being burnt on the train. This again should not have been done. It was flamed by Hindu Extremism.
4) I presume that all other acts of hindu extermism such as forced conversions, fighting buddhists for converting indians, fighting christians, stopping interreligious marriage can just be conveintly forgotten heh?

Hindu extermism is just as bad as muslim extermism and in India i see no evidence that muslims have a monopoly on extermism. If you can think before spewing out garbage it would be good for you.

And who told you these universal god given facts! The NCERT propaganda or the fake Marxist history of India. Stop making allegations. Yes all the things that you state are nothing but convenient utterances of Commie fellow travellers with no proofs attached. When did Gandhi's killer say that he killed Gandhi to establish Dar Ul Hindu

or you want to say that just because he was Hindu all Hindus are condemned to being killers and murderers in perpetuity by your logic very dangerous conclusions can be arrived at, would you like that to happen? And yes the Mandir was there no commie can fight my beliefs.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 21:49

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote: Hindu extermism is just as bad as muslim extermism and in India i see no evidence that muslims have a monopoly on extermism. If you can think before spewing out garbage it would be good for you.

Please.

May I ask you why you speak of Hindu extremism on a day when Islamic extremists who call themselves "Indian Mujahiddeen" have murdered 18 people in Delhi?

Your secular upbringing does not want you to face facts. You want to make a wild counter accusation and admit Hindu guilt within a few hours of an Islamic group murdering people in India. That would be laughable if it was not tragic. Stockholm syndrome.

I believe you have a problem facing reality. We tend to call it cognitive dissonance on here., I also believe you will change - over months or years when the truth sinks in.

Till then spare us your misplaced "righteous anger".

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 13 Sep 2008 21:51

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:In India extremism has not only been a muslim concept. How about 'hindu extemism'??

I was waiting for somebody to post this, thank you for not disappointing me. I guess Shiv's first post passed you by.

1) Responsible for Gujarat Riots 1000s muslims dead

You fail to mention the poor hindus killed in the Godhra train that started it all. You also conveniently fail to mention the thousands of Hindus and policement who were also killed in the same riots.

2) Member of sect Killed Gandhi

You should read Godse's own words on why. Please get his statement read in court by him, that was never allowed the light of day, but is now available in the form of a book 'Why I assassinated the Mahatma".

3) Destroyed Mosque Babri Masjid, again more riots god knows how many dead.

Again, read about how the 'secular' leadership of UP killed hundreds of hindus before the Masjid came down, in the pretext of 'keeping the peace'.

4) Countless other activities too long to list, such as fighting christians, forcing conversions, shooting other convertes etc etc etc.

Man, you've really been lapping up the English press in India. Please read Arun Shouri's book on Indian Missionaries.

Lets not pretend that extremism is a 'muslim only' phenemenon. These guys are TERRORISTS who 'happened' to be muslim. Their religion is NOT IMPORTANT. They need to be hunted down and brought to justice.

Hindus are just fighting to protect their own against the juggernaut (ironical if you look at the origins of that word) of iconoclastic Islam. Read what the Lord says in the Gita.

But I forgot, you are not a Hindu, just a convenient 'atheist'. Good for you.

BTW i am an athiest but my parents are Hindus, and i was brought up as a hindu. I have no bias against any religion.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Sep 2008 21:53

any chance he is a highly educated technorati SAJA or FOIL member who did grad school in US after a
elite schooling in India?

Vikramaditya · Post by **Vikramaditya** » 13 Sep 2008 21:54

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
Shivji,
The point is that I have my neighbours from other communities who I dont see being influenced by Hardline Islamic thoughts (they were one of the first to call and ensure we are safe) what do I do start hating them?
I have noticed this phenomenon in many Hindus, including my own relatives. This phenomenon is of the Hindus giving more importance to their own personal experiences than the collective experience of their race. So if a Hindu has a good Muslim neighbour, he will declare Islam to be good and peaceful. If he has a bad Muslim neighbour, he will declare Islam to be violent and full of hatred. This is the only reference point they use.

Same thing happens to the Hindus who go to Pakistan and come back to India and declare that Pakistan is a good country because a chai-walla refused to take money from them when he got to know they were from India. It doesn't matter one bit to them that the same Pakis will go and donate money to lakshar e Toiba to send more terrorists crawling under the fence to Kashmir and the same Pakis will rejoice that entire Kahsmir has been depopulated of Hindus.

This is a major itch Hindus have of interpreting the whole world around them not from history or what is happening in other parts of the country, but by strictly personal experiences. Usually such Hindus are quite bad at history and have never read it. They only have a vague idea about it. My mother-in-law, a school teacher is an expert at this. Everytime I mention Muslims triggering bomb blasts or killing Hindu Pandits in Kashmir, she will immediately say: "But I have a Muslim colleage in our school, and she is so modern and nice. I don't believe these things I am hearing about Muslims." That is the end of the discussion. I know that one day if that same "nice colleague" turns around and slaps her, her views about Muslims will abruptly change and she will declare Muslims to be violent, unpredictable people.

very good observations there Sanjay ...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 21:55

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:So Shive your saying that i have to choose to be a hindu or i stab hindus in the back heh?

Wrong. You are the one who is harping on Hindus. This is a clear cut case of Islamic extremism and you are choose to talk about Hindus. Why accuse me of implying things I did not say? Go back and check the posts that have been made.

Islamic extremism occurs and you come on here first asking that religion should not be discussed. Then you change tack and say Hindus are to blame. Then you say that I am saying things that I have not said.

But hey - just look back at the one thing YOU positively refuse to say.

You refuse to face the truth that we have had yet another case of Islamic extremism. This is what Indian secularism and dhimmitude has done to millions of "atheist" Hindus like you. Please Google for that word.

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 13 Sep 2008 21:59

All im saying is lets not makes this a 'religious problem' it does not get us anywhere and is morally wrong. Lets focus on smashing this 'Indian Mujahideen', these guys are not true muslims. These guys are practicing a highly perverted form of islam which i cant even call islam. Lets just call it perversion. Its just as extermist hindus are practicing perversion.

Back to the point. Focus on finding and bringing to justice culprits, not muslim bashing.
Yes i am athiest and proud to be so. You guys can choose hinduism, its your right, just as i have a right to choose athiesm, attacking me for it makes you an extermist.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 22:00

PradeepB wrote:
Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:In India extremism has not only been a muslim concept. How about 'hindu extemism'??

I was waiting for somebody to post this, thank you for not disappointing me. I guess Shiv's first post passed you by.

Indeed Pradeep. I made that first post in a fit of anguished sarcasm to pre empt the Vivek Sreenivasans of the world whom I expected would come in soon to chide us. It will be our home ministers turn to mouth the same meaningless platitudes tomorrow I repeat my post below:

shiv wrote:Please do not say anything to harm the secular fabric of the country. Terrorists have no religion. Terrorists come from any religion. I have reason to suspect that "a certain neighboring country" has ill will towards India. But we believe in peace and friendship. Our secular credentials are second to none. I am sure it is the RSS or BJP who have done this in the name of "Indian Mujahiddeen" just to give a bad name to a certain community

This is a time for love. Remember Babri Masjid. Remember Gujarat. We cannot blame any community for violence until we clean our own hearts.

I am sure the government will set up a panel to enquire into these blasts. Our anti terrorism laws are draconian. They will simply arrest innocent people of a certain community.

I am not sure we need a new thread. There are so many blasts in the world. Let us talk about riots in Orissa and inflation. I appeal to forum members finer senses from my heart's bottom.

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 Sep 2008 22:02

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote: 2) Despite all the claims to the contrary there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE that a hindu temple was destroyed to build the mosque. There are no foundations or anything. Knocking down the Mosque was an EVIL ACT, just as it would be if the temples at Madurai were knocked down to build a massive mosque.

I wouldn't go down that route of arguing on "evidence" if I were you. What are you going to do in clear cases where evidence exists right in front of your eyes,like it does in Kash Viswanath /Gyan Vapi and in Mathura? . You can dig up evidence and that is what they tried doing when during Vajpayee's administration they tried getting the ground penetrating radar picture mapping and then the "evidence wallahs" moved goal posts to saying. it should not be just "any temple", but that there must be proof it was a Ram Temple and that babur had got it demolished.

Coming to Madurai, there is a mosque on the top of the rock in whose cave, one of the most famous Murugan (Skanda) temples is ! . Now dont go and put a JNUesque Sekoolar spin on that Mosque on top of on of the most hallowed shrines in TN , the Mosque in Kashi having a wall which is clearly that of a temple and the Mosque in right at the vicinity of Krishna's birth place as "Peaceful coexistence" / "Celebration of composite.. whatever" .. and not as a direct in your face challenge to the Hinduism and an attempt to supplant one religion with another.

Point is , that is "evidence" business is a lose lose argument. These hindu muslim problem is complex, there is close to 700 years of strife, conflict and bad blood and will take a long time to die down , that will require deep changes and evolution and ., modernization and development in Indian society and most importantly within the Muslim populace with modernism replacing some vision stuck in the 6th or 9th century. This global jihad and islamic terrorism buisness is just going to make that lot longer and more difficult.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Sep 2008 22:03

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:All im saying is lets not makes this a 'religious problem' it does not get us anywhere and is morally wrong. Lets focus on smashing this 'Indian Mujahideen', these guys are not true muslims.

You don't really know the meaning of "true Muslim" because you have not done the required reading. You will find it difficult to live this post down. You are putting your foot in your mouth I am afraid and I'm not kidding. I do not want to be harsh - but I do believe you are as wrong as I used to be 6 or 7 years ago. You could be me 7 years ago.

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 22:04

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:All im saying is lets not makes this a 'religious problem' it does not get us anywhere and is morally wrong. Lets focus on smashing this 'Indian Mujahideen', these guys are not true muslims. These guys are practicing a highly perverted form of islam which i cant even call islam. Lets just call it perversion. Its just as extermist hindus are practicing perversion.

Back to the point. Focus on finding and bringing to justice culprits, not muslim bashing.
Yes i am athiest and proud to be so. You guys can choose hinduism, its your right, just as i have a right to choose athiesm, attacking me for it makes you an extermist.

And now you would claim that anybody professing to be Hindu is a extremist. Hint: As per unmentionable religion any godless person should either be converted or killed quite unlike the extremist Hindu religion. Hence by your logic all of the followers of unmentionable religion are extremists

Vikramaditya · Post by **Vikramaditya** » 13 Sep 2008 22:05

All im saying is lets not makes this a 'religious problem' it does not get us anywhere and is morally wrong.

with due respect I beg to differ .... It is a religious problem and refusing to accept that is morally wrong.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 13 Sep 2008 22:06

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:All im saying is lets not makes this a 'religious problem' it does not get us anywhere and is morally wrong. Lets focus on smashing this 'Indian Mujahideen', these guys are not true muslims. These guys are practicing a highly perverted form of islam which i cant even call islam. Lets just call it perversion. Its just as extermist hindus are practicing perversion.

Back to the point. Focus on finding and bringing to justice culprits, not muslim bashing.
Yes i am athiest and proud to be so. You guys can choose hinduism, its your right, just as i have a right to choose athiesm, attacking me for it makes you an extermist.

Vivek, I believe you are seriously misinformed. You need to do a bit more reading. For starters, I would suggest you read the fount of all knowledge, The Book - The Quran itself. There is no such thing as a 'highly perverted form of Islam', what these guys are doing is the 'purest form of the religion'.

There are no 'extremist hindus practising perversion'. Show me one incident where Hindus have bombed innocent people in the name of Hinduism.

Atheism is good, if you truly believe it. You are unfortunately a self-styled 'elite' who thinks he doesn't want any part of the temple going, prayer chanting, tilak toting rag-tag crowd, believing Hinduism to be as evil as Islam in terms of terrorism is one of the requirements of belonging to your clique.

I also suggest you read Ibn Warraq's book on 'Why I am not a Muslim' - he too is a self proclaimed atheist and the the book is published by a well known publsher that supports atheist causes. Being atheist does not mean being blind and brainless, which is how you come across, unfortunately.

BSR Murthy · Post by **BSR Murthy** » 13 Sep 2008 22:07

Vivek Sreenivasan wrote:All im saying is lets not makes this a 'religious problem' it does not get us anywhere and is morally wrong. Lets focus on smashing this 'Indian Mujahideen', these guys are not true muslims. These guys are practicing a highly perverted form of islam which i cant even call islam. Lets just call it perversion. Its just as extermist hindus are practicing perversion.

An atheist figuring out who is a true muslim. Interesting. If one looks at Islam from a dispassionate atheistic point of view, I would think, the conclusion would be the muslim terror groups if anything are the true believers.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 13 Sep 2008 22:09

Another seies of bomb blasts another paroxysmal catharsis, let us resolve never to examine the fount of Islamism. Let noble thoughts bloom. Let us appeal to dharma which teaches that the Muslims are only following the precepts of their religion. Let us respect the other as all paths lead to god including the ones that require santcification by the blood of the kafir.

Om shanti omm ommm ommmmm

Vivek Sreenivasan · Post by **Vivek Sreenivasan** » 13 Sep 2008 22:11

Go to your muslim neighbour and give him a hug. Best thing you can do.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 13 Sep 2008 22:12

Who is responsible 4 this
Acc. to me

1 we himself [Ignorance]
2 government [Policy]
3 mujaheddin [Fu*ker]
4 Muslim [Ideology]

Why why why

Vikramaditya · Post by **Vikramaditya** » 13 Sep 2008 22:12

for Vivek ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

munna · Post by **munna** » 13 Sep 2008 22:14

Go to a Hindu and call him evil, extremist, rioter and murderer for not being either an atheist or a convert. The best thing you can do.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Sep 2008 22:16

I am feeling sick of this guy.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 13 Sep 2008 22:17

Vivek,
Now that you have proclaimed your faith, may I suggest please do not be a bigot and do not attack my religion (which also does not happen to be yours). Please feel free to criticise athiests, I believe Godhra was done by people like you, athiest, in my religion, we hold any form of life very dear, it can be even ant, we do not go and kill it. People like you, who have left this faith and thus do not consider life to be sacrosant have been taking part in riots and assasinations. You should be ashamed of yourself, please do not post your 'paap' at somebody else doorsteps.
Thanks,
fanne