The Trash Thread in the Trash Can (Use 4545 to Merge Posts)

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 23 Sep 2009 19:48

kaangeya wrote:
Is it possible to do a halal under...
Admins, can Gagan be warned and his comments be expunged?

Kaangeya,
Sorry if you felt this was a little crass. I did not mean to offend or to ruffle feathers.

peace OK?
G

kaangeya · Post by **kaangeya** » 23 Sep 2009 21:07

Gagan,

It is not only crude and offensive, which is what it would be if one mocked a person for his tendency to limp or squint, but worse. It is offensive and ignores the fact that we here on BR or Indophiles and the institution we discuss - the Indian uniformed forces - explicitly reject this attitude. I cannot make you change your mind, but I can tell you how offensive your comments are.

No. Stick around longer and you'll see certain words/phrases are commonly used on BRF. We do not wish to kill humor on BRF and our standards of acceptance (of creative writing) are kept generally lax as long as the terminology is within reason.

Mod, thanks. I have been around on BRF for quite some time, a v.v.long time. The comment in question is neither within reason, nor humorous.

AshokS · Post by **AshokS** » 23 Sep 2009 21:54

dude...who invited kaangeya to the party...what a buzz kill

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 26 Sep 2009 23:20

DELETED: POSTED IN NEWBIE SECTION.

George J · Post by **George J** » 27 Sep 2009 00:03

How do I delete my own post?

Admins could you please delete?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 27 Sep 2009 00:23

Sir, I have re posted my previous post in the newbie forum.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Sep 2009 06:31

George J wrote:How do I delete my own post?

Admins could you please delete?

Sorry buddy, you can no longer delete your post after someone else has posted. Voice vote not allowed on BR.

You can, however, edit your own post and then delete the content. But, it does leave an audit trail at the bottom of your post.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 01 Oct 2009 01:56

Learning from our past history. Every time the political leadership of India has been defensive it has withered away. Case in point is the three defending battles at Panipat.

Just like at this critical moment in time and assuming that India politicians and political will be the same for next 50-100 years how many of you are optimistic about India.
--- edited after Vikas Raina's Quote below ---

I am saying that "will the current state of India disintegrate in next 50-100 years". Off course Indians will continue to live outside India or in "former India as Dhimmis".

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 01 Oct 2009 02:04

Sbajwa,
The idea that is India has been there since time immorial and that idea is not going to fade away any time soon.
As far India the physical entity, there is a definate risk that we might lose some more of the periphery the way we are not preparing ourselves for wolves sitting in Bejing and Isloo sharpening their knives.
But bottomline is that I am more than hopeful that when we pass this country on to nanha-mujhahid of Gen-Z, India will be intact and in better shape.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 01 Oct 2009 02:19

Why be so pessimistic? India could gain more territory in the next 50-100 years too ...

archan · Post by **archan** » 01 Oct 2009 02:21

Really ....why?
Do we want to make this forum more "hot air" forum by posting thread after thread with things like "xyz scenario.." "what would happen if..." "I got a wild thought...".

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 02 Oct 2009 04:07

rajeshks wrote:
Arun_S wrote:I'm unsure about the actual meaning of Gopalkrishnan's statement, but "international experts" could/might very well mean INTERNATIONAL-CLASS experts (or WORLD-CLASS EXPERTS) from India. Surely, nobody in their right senses (and with Gopalkrishnan's experience) would:

1. Suggest that Indian data be reviewed by non-Indians, or Indians with interests outside India.
2. Label RC, SKS, APJK,.... as international-class experts.

Perhaps this might clear up the matter for some people.
Arun you are right. Till now india very well hid our strengths and weakness in nuclear program. That ambiguity gave us a lot of advantage. Once we bring international experts or INTERNATIONAL-CLASS experts with interests outside India our nuclear program will be an open book.

Wow!! Just read the implication of the bolded part. As I understand it, Webmaster Arun_S in effect is saying:

People would have to take leave of their senses before saying that RC, SKS and APJK are international class experts

Firstly I presume that Webmaster Arun_S means R Chidambaram for RC, S K Sikka for SKS and APJ Kalam for APJK.

If the initials are indeed the people in question, then I presume that Webmaster Arun_S is saying that R Chidambaram and S K Sikka who designed India's detergent are not world class experts. I presume the disclipine of expertise is "bomb designing".

So the question to ask is is Webmaster Arun_S either:

1. Stanislaw Ulam
2. Edward Teller

or

3. Andrei Sakharov

or indeed Homi bhaba that he can casually question bomb designing skills. Because my assumption is that only an existing international class expert (whatever that means) in this very arcane area would be able to judge another international class expert (again whatever that means). Or does Webmaster Arun_S consider himself in the same company as Ulam, Teller and Sakharov?

PS: Was the original post deleted by the author?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 02 Oct 2009 04:18

ldev wrote: does Webmaster Arun_S consider himself in the same company as Ulam, Teller and Sakharov?

Ldev, no where did Arun state so. Was your post intended to provoke a flame war? Lets keep the discussion to the topic. Do not attribute words unless stated so.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 02 Oct 2009 04:24

Jagan,

Please read the bolded part. Casual insolence towards India's scientific community has been the hallmark of this thread often hidden behind such remarks, very often posted and then withdrawn. Is this behaviour acceptable? For my part I am challenging the assumption that:

R Chidambaram and S K Sikka are not world class experts.

My presumption is that "anybody" who has managed to design a bum is indeed a world class expert including R Chidambaram and Sikka. Clearly nobody that I am aware off on BRF has bomb designing skills including Webmaster Arun_S. So how can he pass judgment on something as generic as who is a "world class expert".

PS: In your opinion is is allright for Arun_S to question R Chidambaram and Sikka's credentials as world class experts but not OK of us posters to question as to where Arun_S ranks himself in the bomb designing leagues?

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 02 Oct 2009 04:28

ldev wrote:Jagan,

Please read the bolded part. Casual insolence towards India's scientific community has been the hallmark of this thread often hidden behind such remarks, very often posted and then withdrawn. Is this behaviour acceptable? For my part I am challenging the assumption that:

R Chidambaram and S K Sikka are not world class experts.
My presumption is that "anybody" who has managed to design a bum is indeed is a world class expert including R Chidambaram and Sikka. Clearly nobody that I am aware off on BRF has bomb designing skills including Webmaster Arun_S. So how can he pass judgment on something as generic as who is a "world class expert".

ldev, counter the argument. Write what makes them the leaders in their field. I will certainly read it. and so will a lot of others. But "So you think you are better than them" makes a poor response.

This is not the time to needle and prick the other guy. and this goes for all sides in this discussion. I would do the same thing if Arun had questioned you on the same lines.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 02 Oct 2009 04:35

Jagan,

Thanks. Time permitting I will do something. And frankly, all that I am asking for is something similar from Webmaster Arun_S.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 04 Oct 2009 09:04

India's next lunar-landing site to be named after Bapu

Does his name have to be on everything?

It's become more than a little pretentious - like AfAms naming everything after Martin Luther King jr.

{deleted}

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 04 Oct 2009 09:53

Sanjay M wrote:India's next lunar-landing site to be named after Bapu

Oh man, does that guy's name have to be on everything?

at least it is better than naming everything after nehru gandhi family ... thank god for small mercies

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 04 Oct 2009 10:18

arunsrinivasan wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:India's next lunar-landing site to be named after Bapu

Oh man, does that guy's name have to be on everything?
at least it is better than naming everything after nehru gandhi family ... thank god for small mercies

Hear, hear! And moreover, maybe the "guy's name" (tch.. tch.. he is more respected outside of our country than here) will promote international non-violent space cooperation .

animesharma · Post by **animesharma** » 04 Oct 2009 14:26

may be its a personal choice, but i am not comfortable with political figures name with science discoveries. Father of nation does deserve an exception, but down the year, there would be many candidate of mother,sister, brother of nation.

Why not revisit ancient indian scientists. Brahmagupta, brahmadeva, or C.V.raman, Bose etc. its suits to reward teacher of nation.

at least it is better than naming everything after nehru gandhi family ... thank god for small mercies

They are saving better things for their family name..

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 04 Oct 2009 18:22

animesharma wrote:---
Why not revisit ancient indian scientists. Brahmagupta, brahmadeva, or C.V.raman, Bose etc. its suits to reward teacher of nation.
...

Nice idea, and very rational, and that should take care of a few sites. Correct me if i am wrong, but won't we run out of such names quite soon? How many of our scientists (ancient/modern) are famous enough? (a serious non-sarcastic query)

BTW, anyone in the know as to what exactly happened that took Chandrayaan offline? Was it really the heat factor -- they had already raised the orbit? Any investigations from ISRO regarding this? Are these national dailies our only source of information about ISRO?

How come the ISRO scientists were not aware of the exact heat output of the moon, while at the same time they achieved monumental success in celestial mechanics through a very very precise Lunar Transfer?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 04 Oct 2009 18:43

Correct me if i am wrong, but won't we run out of such names quite soon?

I feel very put off by these kind of sentiments. It shows us that we haven't educated ourselves on so many innumerable personalities that have contributed so much to where we have come so far. In short. No we won't run short of names if we were to do that.

BTW, anyone in the know as to what exactly happened that took Chandrayaan offline? Was it really the heat factor -- they had already raised the orbit? Any investigations from ISRO regarding this? Are these national dailies our only source of information about ISRO?

Even if you follow this thread, as early as Nov 2008, ISRO mentioned having heat problems due to radiation. The reason being CY was operating just 100 km from the Moons surface in polar orbit. The Chinese, Japanese, Clementine missions operated from 200 kms. CY assumed radiation would cause heating till 75c. Unfortunately it was more than that. By the time they raised the orbit to reduce thermal effects, a power bus and star sensor had already failed. All this info is here and given by ISRO itself.

How come the ISRO scientists were not aware of the exact heat output of the moon, while at the same time they achieved monumental success in celestial mechanics through a very very precise Lunar Transfer?

After discovering water on the Moon, i am sure there are things the US and other space agencies do not know and/or may not share. But both the above cel mechanics and radiation monitoring of lunar surface are different fields of expertize. ISRO has learnt a lesson and it's seldom they repeat such errors.

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 04 Oct 2009 21:10

harbans wrote:...
I feel very put off by these kind of sentiments. It shows us that we haven't educated ourselves on so many innumerable personalities that have contributed so much to where we have come so far. In short. No we won't run short of names if we were to do that.

I humbly accept that ignorant aspect of my education, and hey, it is nice to know that there are a lot of worthies in our history-line.

harbans wrote:...
Even if you follow this thread, as early as Nov 2008, ISRO mentioned having heat problems due to radiation. The reason being CY was operating just 100 km from the Moons surface in polar orbit. The Chinese, Japanese, Clementine missions operated from 200 kms. CY assumed radiation would cause heating till 75c. Unfortunately it was more than that. By the time they raised the orbit to reduce thermal effects, a power bus and star sensor had already failed. All this info is here and given by ISRO itself.
...
After discovering water on the Moon, i am sure there are things the US and other space agencies do not know and/or may not share. But both the above cel mechanics and radiation monitoring of lunar surface are different fields of expertize. ISRO has learnt a lesson and it's seldom they repeat such errors.

Thanks for the above info-- the thread has become too large to trawl and I had been out of the loop for some time. But what really is pi**ing me off is the unavailabilty of further lunar images. Why this moratorium? They did upload little somethings initially, but then a full stop. Are they playing second fiddle to NASA. Look how NASA has stolen the thunder w.r.t. water, with the international press making hardly a mention of ISRO, when in fact the MIP had detected water a lot earlier.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 04 Oct 2009 21:30

Indeed, look around and it's there to see how many are really worthy of recognition, but often we (me included) fail to do so. Our education system teaches us worthies are those that have the stamp of approval abroad only.

But what really is pi**ing me off is the unavailabilty of further lunar images. Why this moratorium?

I came to know there is some sort of moratorium for a year. That expires in November. I do not know what that moratorium exists but it's an agreement between ISRO and mission experiment developers/ agencies. ISRO did release many photographs and they are on the ISRO site including 2 fly by videos. Information also is being collated and will be made public once that is done. Agencies that collate the info take time and CY sent in tons of data. But ISRO is committed to making images and maps public. Thats been stated many times. Like you i also have information from open sources. Look at the Chinese program..just 3 pics of low resolution released to the public. ISRO is miles ahead in that regard. Lets give them some time. My guess in around November lots of info should start coming up. Hope that helps.

with the international press making hardly a mention of ISRO, when in fact the MIP had detected water a lot earlier.

Ok just do 2 things on Bing or Google:

Type: India discovers water on the Moon or CY finds water on moon..see how many international sites have given coverage. Almost all. While the Mapper was Browns, it was Indeed the Indian mission that did the job..

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 04 Oct 2009 21:44

harbans wrote:... Our education system teaches us worthies are those that have the stamp of approval abroad only. ...

boy, how right u r ! That is one of the deepest statements in the Indian context that I have come across lately.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 04 Oct 2009 22:03

animesharma wrote: Why not revisit ancient indian scientists. Brahmagupta, brahmadeva, or C.V.raman, Bose etc. its suits to reward teacher of nation.

Brahmgupta and brahmadeva names are missing but Raman, Bose (and there is a crater named Bhabha near its rim), saha, Mitra, Sarabhai named craters are there on the moon.

Also other greats (Not necessary from current history) like Sita and Krishna..

One suggestion though - instead of just complaining why not suggest it to those who 'discover' the new features ...the guide lines are posted before at:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... ha#p567058

Namely:
Large craters: Famous deceased scientists, scholars and artists;
Small craters: Common first names.
Catenae, Dorsa, Rimae: : Feature names derived from nearby craters.
Lacus, Maria, Paludes, Sinus: Latin terms describing weather and other abstract concepts.
Montes: Terrestrial mountain ranges or nearby craters.
Rupes: Name of nearby mountain ranges (terrestrial names).
Vallis: Names derived from nearby features.

.... No reason to quibble with names like Bapu ... Heck as I mentioned before there is even a crater named 'Osama' (named because it was a common name which the discoverer liked ) on the moon

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 04 Oct 2009 22:20

Also:

but won't we run out of such names quite soon?

One of my favorite poet said:

भूमि के रज कण,
सितारे भी सभी आकाश के,
बून्दियाँ बरसात की ,
कोई कभी गिन भी सके,
किन्तु भारत के सपूतों की यशोगाथा बरी,
है आपर्मित , अंतहीन, अनंत मणियों की लड़ी

Rough translation: (One may be able to count all dust particles on earth, or rain drops, or stars in the sky.. but good sons/daughters of Bharats ??? One will never run out of those. names:)

So there you have it!

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 04 Oct 2009 22:42

Amber G. wrote:...
One of my favorite poet said:
भूमि के रज कण,
सितारे भी सभी आकाश के,
बून्दियाँ बरसात की ,
कोई कभी गिन भी सके,
किन्तु भारत के सपूतों की यशोगाथा बरी,
है आपर्मित , अंतहीन, अनंत मणियों की लड़ी
Rough translation: (One may be able to count all dust particles on earth, or rain drops, or stars in the sky.. but good sons/daughters of Bharats ??? One will never run out of those. names:)...

My salutations to the poet -- such sentiments do swell the heart with nationalistic pride.

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 04 Oct 2009 22:49

Cross post from Pok-II thread.

Arun_S wrote:Dear friends, please note that I stand by my statements on BR, and time will reveal the self evident truth. Interesting times lie ahead, and matters will become clearer as major events unfold.

It is sad to note that BRF no longer represent "Bharat" and has become a propaganda media for GoI official line; an echo-chamber lead by Shiv.

I hereby withdraw from BR and BRF.

My thanks to everybody for your support, discussions and bearing with me.

There is a real "Bharat" out there to serve, and I urge my friends to look up to it.

I ask the powers to be on BRF to leave my last post intact.

Thank you
Arun_S

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 05 Oct 2009 11:05

arunsrinivasan wrote:
Sanjay M wrote:India's next lunar-landing site to be named after Bapu

Oh man, does that guy's name have to be on everything?
at least it is better than naming everything after nehru gandhi family ... thank god for small mercies

And then Tharoor will ask the same on his Twitter.. CNN-IBN/Timesnow will spend 30mins debating if the tweet was appropriate..

disha · Post by **disha** » 05 Oct 2009 11:18

Arun_S wrote:Cross post from Pok-II thread.
Arun_S wrote:Dear friends, please note that I stand by my statements on BR, and time will reveal the self evident truth. Interesting times lie ahead, and matters will become clearer as major events unfold.

It is sad to note that BRF no longer represent "Bharat" and has become a propaganda media for GoI official line; an echo-chamber lead by Shiv.

I hereby withdraw from BR and BRF.

My thanks to everybody for your support, discussions and bearing with me.

There is a real "Bharat" out there to serve, and I urge my friends to look up to it.

I ask the powers to be on BRF to leave my last post intact.

Thank you
Arun_S

It is indeed a sad decision. Your contributions have been immense. You should revisit the above decision, it is okay to see once own in disagreement, it causes much frustration and angst but again are we not all argumentative Indians?

disha · Post by **disha** » 05 Oct 2009 11:22

sumishi wrote:Thanks for the above info-- the thread has become too large to trawl and I had been out of the loop for some time. But what really is pi**ing me off is the unavailabilty of further lunar images. Why this moratorium? They did upload little somethings initially, but then a full stop. Are they playing second fiddle to NASA. Look how NASA has stolen the thunder w.r.t. water, with the international press making hardly a mention of ISRO, when in fact the MIP had detected water a lot earlier.

I am pi**ed off that you are finding the thread too large to trawl and are pi**ed off at ISRO for not quickly trawling through reams of data and producing quality research. Regarding the "NASA stealing the thunder" (which did not happen BTW), just go back one previous page and do the reading. You will find the answers. Unless you are pi**ed of even trawling through a page. (Sorry I am not charitable to juvenile posts like yours as other forum members are).

sumishi · Post by **sumishi** » 05 Oct 2009 12:10

disha wrote:... (Sorry I am not charitable to juvenile posts like yours as other forum members are).

Perish the thought! My posts are juvenile compared those of a lot many here as my domain is entirely different, but your statement above has furthered my gratitude towards those who took time and patience to respond.

And yes, Arun_S will be missed for I had found his posts illuminating.

M Kumar · Post by **M Kumar** » 12 Oct 2009 15:48

Hello All,

Please let us know which you think is the loudest combat aircraft you have heard.
My list is in order mentioned Su30MKI

, EF, F-16IN.

Has anyone staying close to Mig25 base heard it? I wonder how those massive Tumansky turbo jets might sound

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Oct 2009 20:48

We can do many things if we have will. IAF is acting as if they have no resposibility towards production of a world class fighter. Look at the Navy. how hard they are trying to something be it subs, Air defenceship, destroyers and what not. But IAF and IA are behaving as it they are bosses of every one and can order something which have to be given to them irespective of the cost to the nation. This kind of behaviour can be seen in respect of Arjun also. We are not simply ready to try and get some weapons produced here in India. Lack of will and lack of involvment in production of weapon systoms by IAF and IA is the biggest security rrelated issue we have in long term.

sanjaychoudhry · Post by **sanjaychoudhry** » 12 Oct 2009 21:48

We can do many things if we have will. IAF is acting as if they have no resposibility towards production of a world class fighter. Look at the Navy. how hard they are trying to something be it subs, Air defenceship, destroyers and what not. But IAF and IA are behaving as it they are bosses of every one and can order something which have to be given to them irespective of the cost to the nation. This kind of behaviour can be seen in respect of Arjun also.

It does seem that army and air force have no long term vision for the nation. They cannot think beyond contracts and commissions and do not mind keeping the country dependant on imported arms for the next fifty years. These are very strange kind of armed forces officers who do not want to produce their own arms. In no other country is this kind of behaviour seen by the armed forces. What do we call these Indian officers? A cadre of compulsive shoppers of imported goods? This shows they have absolutely no vision of dominating Asia and expanding their military influence beyond India.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 12 Oct 2009 22:28

sanjaychoudhry wrote:
What do we call these Indian officers? A cadre of compulsive shoppers of imported goods? This shows they have absolutely no vision of dominating Asia and expanding their military influence beyond India.

Cool down my friend...!!!

jai · Post by **jai** » 13 Oct 2009 01:48

IMHO its time to privatize HAL and others. Trust the TATA's, Godrej's and L&T's to do a better job....extend to all defence PSU's...create a list of friendly countries that these companies can sell their vares to;allow them to collaborate with anyone they want...Israeli companies,The French, US co's, swedes, Europeans, mig, sukhoi etc etc and pull back..define specs, buy from the private Indian industry what meets our needs and move on...this is needed if we need our own EADS, Lockheed, Boing, Sukhoi, IAI and the like..The way US runs defence seems to be a good idea...retain DRDO though...make them semi private with govt calling the shots in directing research along national priorities but allowing them to sell tech to Indian defence companies .....

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 13 Oct 2009 02:07

sanjaychoudhry wrote:These are very strange kind of armed forces officers who do not want to produce their own arms. In no other country is this kind of behaviour seen by the armed forces. What do we call these Indian officers? A cadre of compulsive shoppers of imported goods? This shows they have absolutely no vision of dominating Asia and expanding their military influence beyond India.

Well is it in the IA or IAF doctrine to dominate Asia ?

It is the political elite who decide the Vision for military in India and or military itself ?

No other country is as Democratic and its military leadership as downgraded in the overall protocol of seniority ? We are in a country where 3 service chiefs hardly have any say on national security decisions and their opinion or recommendations are sidelined in favor of alliance politics!!!

"What is to be bought finally" is decided by babus and politicians not Military officers... as users of equipment they can only pen down their requirement, test the various equipment and give their remarks!!! final decision is not in their hands!!

veerav · Post by **veerav** » 15 Oct 2009 01:03

I have read enough of this garbage on BRF

farting regularly on this forum

Chill down Karthik! You do not have to take the high seat of calling someones comments as garbage and 'XXXXing'.

The point here is that can we push the IOC and FOC dates with an expectation that LCA initally runs on Ge 404? If the uncertainitiy of engine is taken out of the equation, what else is preventing to expand the testign envelop at higher pace and acheive the IOC early.

Admins - I requst you to take note of this bad language and issue warnings.....