Indian Military Aviation

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 17 Apr 2009 03:44

Rafale Kicked out ; France wants 12000 cr for 51 Mirage upgrade contract

Incidentally, India and France are also yet to settle their bitter differences for the upgrade of the 51 Mirage-2000s in IAF's combat fleet despite being locked in negotiations for over two years now. Sources said French fighter manufacturer Dassault Aviation wants well over Rs 12,000 crore for the project, but India is not prepared to pay a penny over Rs 10,000 crore.

Works out to be nearly $50 million a piece!!

LINK

“As a result, the IAF will have a coherent platform-system combination for the next 20 years at a significantly lower cost than the acquisition of new-build aircraft with equivalent performance,” Thales VP - Quentin added.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Apr 2009 09:00

This arm-twisting over even M-2000 upgrades might have led to the Rafale getting the boot....

I find it hard to believe that Rafale couldnt meet technical specs of IAF.

b_patel · Post by **b_patel** » 17 Apr 2009 09:45

WOW! I honestly expected Dassault to give into India's demands so they could secure the MRCA order. An export order of 120+ planes would have done wonders for the Rafale in future competitions. I wonder why the French are arm-twisting the M-2000 upgrade deal? Is Dasault the only one that could upgrade the M-2000? OR would Israel be allowed to upgrade the Mirages.

Ajay K · Post by **Ajay K** » 17 Apr 2009 11:23

French were giving all the goodies to Puki while milking us. Time to set things rite and think Mig-35 or F-16IN would win the race again its more of a political decision. The dark horse being Typhoon although IAF like SH and Grippen in that order.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 17 Apr 2009 15:31

Whats wrong with the French? Their one big chance to make an export breakthrough for Rafale was India and its now gone.They look more serious in trying to secure the Brazilian and UAE contracts.Hope they get screwed out of both.

Does Israel have any upgrade kit for Mirage 2000?

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Apr 2009 09:07

Gohar Ayub Khan confirms that IAF MiG 25 R’s did indeed break the sound barrier over Islamabad

:

Pakistan would have attacked India in 1998

Saturday, April 18, 2009
By Tariq Butt

………… Yet another episode noted in the book is that India had four MIG-25Rs for high altitude reconnaissance. These aircraft could climb up to 81,000 ft. Pakistan had no fighter interceptor to climb to such height nor any ground-to- air anti-aircraft missiles to shoot such a plane down. These MIG-25Rs had a free run over Pakistan’s vital installations. The PAF had the F-104 Star Fighter which were designed to intercept high-flying Soviet bombers. They could go up to a height of 81,000 ft. These fighters had been phased out some years ago. The PAF knew that the Indian Air Force (IAF) had the MIG-25Rs and as such should have maintained some F-104 Star Fighter to be used as interceptors. The high-cost to maintain them should have been overruled as some could have been cannibalized for parts. In any case, spare parts for the F104 were easily available from some friendly countries.

“We were busy in a parliamentary party meeting in the National Assembly presided over by the prime minister when a messenger informed me that Air Chief Marshal Farooq Feroze wanted to speak to me. I went to the green line telephone (phone which scrambles conversations). He informed me that his fighters were ready to take off and enter India from three directions in retaliation to the IAF MIG-25Rs flight over Islamabad breaking the sound barrier at 72,000 ft a few days ago. He wanted the prime minister’s approval. Which areas of India will you fly over, I asked and found that there was no population in their flight path. I told the air marshal that no Indian except that radar and some senior air force officers would know about these intrusions. I suggested we must fly over Delhi. Get me the permission, said the air marshal. I went back to the committee room and informed the prime minister about the air marshal’s suggested flight path and my suggestions that we fly over Delhi. No need to do either, said the prime minister. I went back and informed the air marshal to stand down.” ………….

The News

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 18 Apr 2009 09:48

"He wanted the prime minister’s approval. Which areas of India will you fly over, I asked and found that there was no population in their flight path. I told the air marshal that no Indian except that radar and some senior air force officers would know about these intrusions. I suggested we must fly over Delhi. Get me the permission, said the air marshal. I went back to the committee room and informed the prime minister about the air marshal’s suggested flight path and my suggestions that we fly over Delhi. No need to do either, said the prime minister. I went back and informed the air marshal to stand down.” ………….

More cock-a-hoop from the son of the self declared field marshal. PAF hasnt dared fly over New Delhi during wartime and the poop head is dreaming of doing this in peace time and provoke the yindoos.

sum · Post by **sum** » 18 Apr 2009 10:27

Which aircraft did the "tactically brilliant" PAF chief plan to overfly over Delhi?

Also,

Foreign intelligence agents were successful in placing an electronic sensing device shaped like a boulder with fibre covering close to the perimeter fence of Kahuta nuclear site, reveals the just launched book.

Indian or Yahudi?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Apr 2009 00:36

Wrong thread

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 19 Apr 2009 00:50

sum wrote:
Foreign intelligence agents were successful in placing an electronic sensing device shaped like a boulder with fibre covering close to the perimeter fence of Kahuta nuclear site, reveals the just launched book.
Indian or Yahudi?

Perhaps Limey?

Spy scandal rocks Russia

Russia's state security service, the FSB, has accused British diplomats of spying in Moscow with the help of hi-tech electronic rocks.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 19 Apr 2009 02:31

Gerard wrote:
Perhaps Limey?

Spy scandal rocks Russia
Russia's state security service, the FSB, has accused British diplomats of spying in Moscow with the help of hi-tech electronic rocks.

CIA, this episode is mentioned in 'Deception' by Adrian Levy and Catherine Scott-Clark. AS I recall, the device was accidently recovered by a Pakistani patrol!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 21 Apr 2009 05:38

NGO: India to keep buying Russian jets

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 21 Apr 2009 06:47

From Roopinder Singh's blog.

On Arjan Singh DFC

How tall he stands

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 21 Apr 2009 13:46

From Russia with Love

"Sukhoi" and "Mig" will remain major suppliers combat aircraft Indian Air Force

MOSCOW, 20 April. (ARMS-TASS). For nearest 10-15 years old India will retain the status of the largest foreign recipient of Russian battle aviation technology. Till 2015-2016 gg. This guarantee contracts on supply the indian AIR FORCE of fighters Su-30МКИ and MiГ-29К. Such forecast of development militari-technical cooperation between two countries will lend the experts of The center of the analysis of strategies and technologies (TSAST). In period till 2020 g., As to them this, India will purchase till 80-90 Su-30МКИ or their variants as direct buyings.

On the arms-TASS up to 2015 for licensing program in India on this capability will be made of 98 fighters Su-30MKI from the General Orders for 140 machines (42 machines will agreement has been made). In addition, 34 Su-30MKI will be placed in direct procurement. In general, this would amount to $132 million worth machines (without taking into account possible new contracts).

As regards MIG-29K, then, under the arms-TASS, in addition to 16 used machines, the Navy India, most likely, will become the second instalment in number 29 machines. In the long term Navy India are planning to restore the strength Park MIG-29K to 50 units.

Major ongoing programmes procurement India on fixed-wing aircraft for technology are the purchase and build heavy multifunctional fighter Su-30MKI and modernization fighter-bombers MIG-27мл and fighters MiG-29.

Analysts цаст believe in term it useful progress in India double option new Su-35 or use of its systems (including radar, engines 117с and so forth) to new modifications proposed India Su-30MKI. This is true of the programme possible deep modernization of aircraft.
The main ambition Air Force fighter India now is the acquisition on the draft mmrca (average multifunctional Fighter plane). It covers the purchase 126 aircraft provisional value of $10, 6 billion. 1. The tender involved six candidates, including, and the Russian MiG-35.

Future prospects Indian combat aircraft are related to, first and foremost with the formal accession India to the Russian draft a fifth-generation fighter aircraft, which is being developed in the company "Sukhoi".

On the цаст, in the Air Force aircraft fleet India at the end 2008. 90 was Su-30MKI, manufactured in 2002-2008, and also about 470 fighter "Mig" different modifications.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 21 Apr 2009 20:45

Re: PAF intercepting Mig25's... i don't think that regular F104's could climb to 80,000ft. i seem to recall a special rocket assisted one that NASA used for experiments which did, but certainly not PAF ones!

samsher · Post by **samsher** » 22 Apr 2009 01:25

Deleted

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 22 Apr 2009 01:51

this is a thread on Indian military aviation, not PAF. kindly post in relevant thread and delete the above post.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 23 Apr 2009 17:10

First Phalcon to arrive on May 18

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 23 Apr 2009 21:29

Mirage-2000 Vs Mig-29

Scans courtesy Vayu

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 23 Apr 2009 21:43

thank you very much Nayak for the great scans !

Anurag · Post by **Anurag** » 23 Apr 2009 22:53

Great Vayu article!

HariC · Post by **HariC** » 23 Apr 2009 22:54

Nayak Post subject: Re: Indian Military AviationPosted: 23 Apr 2009 03:59 pm
BRF Oldie
Joined: 10 Jun 2006 10:18 pm
Posts: 3030
Location: Registered Smilie Molestor and Offender under BRF Higher Standards Enforcement Act

Hilarious

Ari Samir · Post by **Ari Samir** » 23 Apr 2009 22:56

k prasad wrote:
Nirmal wrote:Could it be that IAF has floated a new RFP for trainers because of following reasons:

1. IAF probably will retain Hawk as its' trainer, hence thier re-tendering Bae again but want to extract following:
a) Price Advange and 'Freebies'.
b) 30-50% 'Offset' which the original contract was not subjected to and the same terms would have been applicable to ' follow-on' order similar to 40 SU30MKi order.
c) Advantage of choosing a new upgraded version for no additional cost.
just my 2 cents.
K Mehta and I discussed this when we met... the options that we closed on, apart from the freebie thing are:

1. They are genuinely looking for a new type - however, this seems very wierd. Additionally, the spares issue didnt seem severe at all when i spoke to ppl from HAL, AF and BAe - they said that it was just handing over issues between HAL and BAe, and could be fixed.

2. Trying to drive down the follow on order cost + offsets.

3. The IAF is looking for a genuine LIFT capability, with a lot more weapons training options, which the present hawk doesn't really have - hence, the follow on order, with the contract thingy meant to prevent allegations of corruption etc etc... the problem being that training pilots on fighter aircraft would be problematic, especially when our numbers are down, and plus, it is quite expensive.

IMHO, Alenia Aermacchi M 346 is a much superior trainer to prepare for 4.5G aircrafts (MMRCA, Su 30 MKI) and 5G birds (FGFA). RFP went to Alenia as well....will be a good idea to go for Italians or Koreans....

Jagan · Post by **Jagan** » 24 Apr 2009 05:00

Thats a great article by AM Masand. Thanks Nayak for sharing (doesnt get you off the offender registry though

)

Nayak · Post by **Nayak** » 24 Apr 2009 08:13

I am going to report your post for unnecessarily using a smilie and you are insulting me as a person by indicating one's superiority of intellect. And that too hogging the thread with single posts running into a large lot with imaginative obtuseness.

BTW: I have some more articles to be scanned from Vayu, if the mods are okay with it, can I start dumping the scans in appropriate threads ?

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 24 Apr 2009 12:30

Nayak, Thanks for the great article. Keep them coming.

Cheers....

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 24 Apr 2009 23:47

Nayak,

Awesome article. Thanks for sharing.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 25 Apr 2009 02:20

Now its off, now its on. The latest on the MTA
Russia launches military transport project with India

April 24 2009,
MOSCOW: The Russian government allocated $64 million in 2009 to part finance a project with India to develop a new military transport plane.

Russia and India signed an intergovernmental agreement on the joint development of a multi-role transport aircraft (MTA) in 2007. The cost of the $600-mln project is being equally shared by the two countries.

"The Russian government has signed a directive to launch the Russian-Indian project for the development of the MTA military transport plane, 2.156 billion rubles ($64 mln) has been allocated from the federal budget for this project in 2009," said Viktor Livanov, general director of the Ilyushin design bureau.

The transport plane, with a 20-ton cargo capacity, is expected to go in service with the Russian and Indian air forces in about eight years, the official said.

kidoman · Post by **kidoman** » 30 Apr 2009 12:22

IAF plane crashes in Rajasthan, pilot dead

NEW DELHI: An Indian Air Force fighter jet crashed on Thursday at Rajmathai, near Pokhran, in
Rajasthan.
One IAF pilot was killed in the accident.
Further details are awaited.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 30 Apr 2009 13:16

kidoman wrote:IAF plane crashes in Rajasthan, pilot dead

NEW DELHI: An Indian Air Force fighter jet crashed on Thursday at Rajmathai, near Pokhran, in
Rajasthan.
One IAF pilot was killed in the accident.
Further details are awaited.

its Official now,it was SU-30MKI

.so sad
IAF's SU-30 MKI crashes, one pilot dead

This is the first time that a Sukhoi-30 MKI, a frontline fighter plane, has crashed.

The incident occurred at around 1020 hours near Rajmathai village, about 70 kms from here, when the plane, the squadron of which is based in Pune, was on a routine exercise, Defence PRO Lt. Col N N Joshi said.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Apr 2009 13:22

this is what I feared when I heard pokhran !

blot on mki's unblemished record so far. condolences to the deceased's family.

SKrishna · Post by **SKrishna** » 30 Apr 2009 13:38

Very Sad News

Condolences to the bereaved.

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Apr 2009 13:38

Dammit....

RIP to the IAF jock...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Apr 2009 13:38

One pilot ejected safely but the other was killed.

We have to wait for more news if he couldn't eject or he was killed in spite of ejecting.

Very sad news indeed.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 30 Apr 2009 13:40

$hit , a wing commander lost in our front line fighter . Heartfelt condolences to the family of the wing commander.

The other pilot who ejected safely would be able to give many details about the events leading up to the crash.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 30 Apr 2009 13:55

prying eyes of DDM looking for fault in made in india
IAF Sukhoi fighter jet crashes; navigator killed

This is the first crash of a Su-30MKI, which was inducted into the IAF in 1997. The IAF operates three squadrons (approximately 55 aircraft) of the jet, which is being manufactured under license in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

It was not immediately clear whether the aircraft that crashed was among those purchased in fly away condition or had been manufactured in India

More info on accident

The two-man crew ejected before the jet crashed. The pilot, Wing Commander S V Munje, survived but the navigator, Wing Commander P.S. Narah, succumbed to his injuries, the spokesperson added.

There were no reports of damage to property on the ground.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Apr 2009 14:00

so he got injured even though he had ejected. sad, russian seats are usually good enough to save the lives in the worst of situations.

guys, plz cross-post in flight safety thread if possible.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 30 Apr 2009 14:05

May be the Poor Guy hit the canopy while ejecting, as it happened with Late Sqn Ldr P K Bundela VM,who was famous for shooting down the Paki Atlantique.

Deepest Condolences

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Apr 2009 14:18

bundela didn't hit the canopy, he damaged his spinal column during landing.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 30 Apr 2009 14:49

Rahul M wrote:bundela didn't hit the canopy, he damaged his spinal column during landing.

No,Rahul,if my memory serves right he hit the canopy and damaged head and neck (maybe spine) and was in hospital for many days before he succumbed.

MiGs are not flying coffins: Air chief

In one case, Squadron Leader Bundela, the man who shot down the Pakistani Atlantique aircraft in 1999, had sustained serious head injuries while ejecting. He later died.