Libyan War

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 20 Mar 2011 04:10

French draw first blood as allied forces intervene in Libya

Five French aircraft -- two Rafale multirole war planes, two Mirage fighter jets and an AWACS surveillance aircraft -- were involved, a French military source told Reuters.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 20 Mar 2011 04:36

Gaddafi's Forces In Crosshairs, Rafales Crank Up Op Experience Shiv Aroor blog

According to sources, two Rafales departed a French base in Corsica earlier on Saturday, and while one remained on combat patrol, the other engaged with ground targets outside the rebel stronghold town.

Hours after reports came in yesterday that Gaddafi had announced a cessation of all military operations against the rebels, I spoke to my Libyan contacts in Benghazi -- the people I've spent over two weeks with in Eastern Libya this month -- and all confirmed reports that military activity was far from over, and that Gaddafi's forces had laid siege just kilometers from the town.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Mar 2011 05:31

Two different aircraft on YouTube
This is a MiG 21

manum wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugmKcbM786E
the crashed Libya fighter...well no one is sure about the cause of crash...

This is a MiG 23/27

SaiK wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihA0bbN4C-8
A fighter being shot down!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Mar 2011 05:34

anishns wrote:Confirmed, its a Mig 23, from the wiki page :

Seems the pilot didn't survive....

The video in an earlier post above clearly shows the eject but that chute has not yet billowed - probably too late for the pilot.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 06:19

can anyone id the rafale weapons?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 06:23

Sky reporting RAF Tornados fired StormShadow after flying 3000m from RAF Marham - longest range RAF bombing since 1982.

--
good old RAF just logged in. must have returned to france or italy for next sorties...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 06:27

he has truck mounted bm21 units....

00:58 Al Jazeera English Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi had bombarded areas of Benghazi. Gaddafi’s forces fired from tanks and used rockets to strike the city. Some residents have sought refuge in mosques for safety

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 06:38

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42170704/ns ... tn_africa/

Here's a look at some of the international military assets in or heading to the region to help enforce the U.N.-sanctioned no-fly zone over Libya:

France

* Deployed eight Rafale and four Mirage jets to survey rebel-held Benghazi; one fired on a Libyan military vehicle in first military strike of operation; 20 French fighter jets carried out "several strikes" and returned to base. Officials denied a Libyan TV report that one had been hit.
* Six C-135 refueling tankers
* 1 AWACS surveillance plane
* Deploying the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier to the region Sunday from Toulon.
* Also envisages using anti-air frigates Jean-Bart and Forbin, anti-submarine frigate Dupleix, the Aconit frigate and a refueling ship La Meuse.

Canada

* Sent six F-18s to Italy base; 140 military personnel involved.
* Frigate HMCS Charlottetown is in Mediterranean for possible staging ground for Canadian forces.

United States

* Fired with Britain 112 Tomahawk cruise missiles on Libyan air defenses, chiefly targeting SA-5 surface-to-air missiles, which are considered a moderate threat to some allied aircraft. They were fired from the guided-missile destroyers USS Stout and USS Barry, and three submarines, USS Providence, USS Scranton and USS Florida.
* Has two guided-missile destroyers in the Mediterranean, the USS Barry and USS Stout, two amphibious warships, the USS Kearsarge and USS Ponce, and a command-and-control ship, the USS Mount Whitney. The submarine USS Providence was also in the Mediterranean.
* Witnesses reported five F-18s, two C-17s and a C-130 cargo plane arrived at U.S. air base at Aviano in northern Italy, which is home to the 31st Fighter Wing.

Denmark

* Six F-16s arrived at U.S. air base in Sigonella, Sicily and could be deployed as early as Sunday; 132 support staff.

Italy

* Offered use of seven military bases: U.S. air bases at Sigonella, Sicily and Aviano in northern Italy; Italian air bases in Amendola near Foggia, Decimomannu in Sardinia, Gioia del Colle near Bari, base on Sicilian island of Pantelleria, and the military airport of Trapani, Sicily.
* Proposed NATO base in Naples serve as coordination point for operation.
* Says it has four anti-radar and anti-missile Tornados and six other aircraft available to fly with 15 minutes notice.
* Aircraft carrier Giuseppe Garibaldi off Sicily with eight aircraft aboard.

Spain

* Sent four F-18s and a Boeing 707 refueling plane to Italy base.
* Deploying a submarine, naval frigate and a surveillance plane.
* Placed two bases at NATO's disposal, Rota and Moron de la Frontera, where several U.S. Air Force planes were seen Friday.

Britain

* Launched Tomahawk missiles from a Trafalgar Class submarine and Stormshadow missiles from Tornado GR4s. The fast jets flew 3,000 miles from RAF Marham and back making this the longest-range bombing mission conducted by the RAF since the Falklands conflict. This operation was supported by VC10 and Tristar air-to-air refuelling aircraft as well as E3D Sentry and Sentinel surveillance aircraft.
* HMS Westminster is off the coast of Libya and HMS Cumberland is in the region ready to support operations. Typhoon aircraft are also standing by to provide support.
* Britain's air base in southern Cyprus, RAF Akrotiri, supporting AWACS surveillance aircraft and has a team of personnel there to coordinate British aircraft movement.
* Two British frigates, HMS Westminster and HMS Cumberland, are in the Mediterranean off Libya's coast.

Norway

* Offered six F-16s, with around 100 support staff, but operational capabilities five-six days off.
* Considering contributing an Orion maritime surveillance plane.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 06:39

so far Rafale has shown its stripes - long range firepower, a2a, a2g
Typhoon is AWOL

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 06:54

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2882597.stm

fact file Storm Shadow...was fired to supplement RN Thawks in DEAD role.

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 20 Mar 2011 06:57

India should have at least added one vote - whichever way it went thereafter doesn't matter. Had I been involved I would have voted in favour of this action, I don't know why we abstained at all..........

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 07:03

we missed a good chance to practice a deployment of composite m2k n mki wing flying from egypt in A2g role...

would send a clear message we can reach out and both protect and punish

unless we 'test and demo' capabilities nobody will join our camp

even the Mi35 hinds depployed for UN in africa could be repurposed to provide some CAS for the 'rebels' in exchange for some rebuilding contracts.

negi · Post by **negi** » 20 Mar 2011 07:45

How I wish someone arm Gaddafi and his boys with a 10k range N tipped ICBM. We would have seen how strong is this ostensible cause for which faggots have come together.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Mar 2011 08:06

Singha, it is sad many don't cherish such ideas in desh.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 08:13

yeah people talk of gulf arabs 'looking' for new protectors to eventually replace their supine dependence on US.

but unless we form the part of the hunting party in these low risk plays, we are never going to even think about going it alone in a expeditionary war.

the thoughts of jingoes run far ahead of the timid folks who run indian foreign policy. this was a low risk play we could pull out of anytime and no vital economic interests at stake here if Qadhafi survives..the 2-3 addl terrorists he could bring to bear pales in significance to the 1000s already out in the field on anti-indian missions.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Mar 2011 09:43

Singha wrote:can anyone id the rafale weapons?

they have reported some 12 scalp being fired.

saip · Post by **saip** » 20 Mar 2011 09:50

Where is INS Jalaswa with marine commandos and helis and INS Mysore? Arent the in the Mediterranean?

SidGupta · Post by **SidGupta** » 20 Mar 2011 10:15

Confirmed, its a Mig 23, from the wiki page :

And the wiki is never wrong?

Im gonna wager thats a Su-24, not MiG.

The Su-24 wiki has been updated and now states my wager to be correct - still no official confirmation.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 10:45

does NOT speak well of the typhoon a2g maturity and wartime readiness *today* if user nations like spain sent F-18 and italy is using tornadoes, while UK has already used Tornado though stormshadow is apparently tested on the typhoon.

the french used rafale as the tip of the spear, flying a ultra long range mission - as it was designed to do, with those 3 huge addl tanks.

we cannot afford a 10 yr MKI project to bring the MRCA choice upto par and war readiness per our needs.

unless the typhoon appears on stage and dances well in all aspects in the next week or so, I suspect some (incl me) are going to "change sides" in the MRCA circus thread and go rafale.

better a 25 yr ripe curvy wife who can deliver your spawn as needed, vs a much younger lady who may or may not grow up into what you expect

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 20 Mar 2011 11:21

Video of the aircraft being downed : http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id- ... t-ned.html

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 20 Mar 2011 11:23

A twitter stream of spotters, journos covering the NFZ in Libya: http://bit.ly/evz7BJ

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 11:58

from above twitter stream details of the rafale d-day missions

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/03/ ... l?spref=tw

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 20 Mar 2011 12:25

I would have liked to see Tejas and Arihant (without nukes of course) in action for live practice. A very dashing way to induct ... we could always say they were in action but we did not participate actively.

wet dreams

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 20 Mar 2011 12:45

MoD would indeed be very impressed with the Rafale. I still remember Dassault entered the IAF technical evaluations Bangalore round at the last minute after being disqualified IIRC. At that point, nobody would've thought that this contender would come so far and further than all others.

Except for the Istres-LeTube airbase, all the other airbases are located either in Central or Northeastern Metropolitan France, which are the home-bases for the Rafale squadrons. Looks like the Armee de L'Air initially did schedule for relocation of all squadrons to Istres-LeTube (and perhaps Corsica) but then decided otherwise.

If I am not mistaken, the USAF does maintain an AFB in Sardinia as part of the 320th Air Expeditionary Mission Wing. So that airbase is an option if B-2's or Lancers need to be pressed into service.

Added later: Will have to watch the EA-18 Growler now. I'm already praying for a 50:50 Rafale-Growler split of the MRCA

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 12:56

apparently per that twitter stream usaf F-16CJ from germany were also in action last night and US's typical signature move - 3 x B2 flying direct from mainland and dropping 40 heavy bombs on some airbase.

Libya had fairly large nos of mothballed and derelict ac lying around per the updates...I suspect these will be bombarded and destroyed where they lie to make absolutely sure no a2a threat emerges later when action shifts to CAS.

the good thing is once the dust settles the Pakis will have no more used Mirage-III/V to buy and cannibalize for spare parts

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 13:01

the thing one can like about the political aspect of Rafale is the french have no confusion - no X vs Y of typhoon vs JSF, or gripen vs used F-solahs that other euros deal with. they only have the rafale and it has to work in all roles - so they sat down and made it work ; instead of wasting time fighting for workshares or domestic vs bideshi that JSF/F-solah introduces into mix.

and having their own complete family of weapons (mica, AASM, scalp) , optronic pods, radar and ECM makes it easier for them to bring WORKING solutions to the table quickly. may not be utterly best of breed but they work and are generally reliable , looking at the sturdiness of Mirages in service around the world.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 13:04

hope to see B52 and B1s making runs up and down the coastal roads shortly...

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 20 Mar 2011 13:10

Klaus wrote:MoD would indeed be very impressed with the Rafale. I still remember Dassault entered the IAF technical evaluations Bangalore round at the last minute after being disqualified IIRC. At that point, nobody would've thought that this contender would come so far and further than all others.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Rafales dealt the first blow. The other air forces waited till the tomahawks took out a majority of the air defences before they sent in their a/cs. Thats a few brownies scored for Rafale there.

Singha wrote:Libya had fairly large nos of mothballed and derelict ac lying around per the updates...I suspect these will be bombarded and destroyed where they lie to make absolutely sure no a2a threat emerges later when action shifts to CAS.

Once its all done and dusted and Gaddafi's been replaced by a US mole, Ombaba will sell them their mothballed F-16s to let them be independent and protect their so-virginity.

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 20 Mar 2011 13:13

Rafale B with Reco-NG pod for reconnaissance mission over Libya, at Saint the Dizier Air base, France.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Mar 2011 13:37

MiG 23

Su 24

negi · Post by **negi** » 20 Mar 2011 13:54

Damn the French look really desperate for the MRCA tender me thinks more than geopolitics it's all about Mullah Sarko trying to divert attention from his own s-exploits.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 20 Mar 2011 14:30

^^^
the main reason IS geopolitical more than anything else, because the French have already taken sides and recognized the rebels as the official representatives of Libya(when Gaddafi's fall seemed imminent).You can imagine their horror when government forces took back one city after another, reaching the outskirts of Benghazi.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 20 Mar 2011 14:53

<snip>

Go and post in the strategic issues forum.
Rahul.

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » 20 Mar 2011 15:05

Dmurphy wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Rafales dealt the first blow. The other air forces waited till the tomahawks took out a majority of the air defences before they sent in their a/cs. Thats a few brownies scored for Rafale there.

The French went for eastern Libya, which has no air defences to speak of and it was still in rebel hands. The Americans attacked the air defence installations, which were all located in western Libya and in and around Tripoli. Basically paving the way for Allied fighters in western, more dangerous part.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 15:17

does france M2k/rafale use HARM or depend on british and american for SEAD support?

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 20 Mar 2011 15:21

I knew I was missing something. Thanks Henril. But I still think its a lot braver than letting the cruise missiles take out a 'moderate' AD threat before one does some target practice.

Jeff Lira · Post by **Jeff Lira** » 20 Mar 2011 15:27

Recently Libyan armed men captured Italian ships comprising Crewmen among which 2 are Indians. Italian Ship Captured in Libya, Gaddafi Called West Barbarians; Full Speech The article also translated Gaddafi's recent speech, he says he has support of International community and that he will give weapons and open all weapon depot for the common public of libya including women and kids to fight against the west.

Henrik · Post by **Henrik** » 20 Mar 2011 15:44

Dmurphy wrote:I knew I was missing something. Thanks Henril. But I still think its a lot braver than letting the cruise missiles take out a 'moderate' AD threat before one does some target practice.

There's no need to take out air defence threats if there aren't any air defences, right? There are/were however air defences in the western parts that apparently needed to be taken out before ANY western aircrafts begin to fly over the area.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 15:56

would the western allies permit their commercial sat operators to sell 0.50m res sat photos to the media. that would reveal damage to mil sites. I suppose no real harm in doing that as the libyans already know.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Mar 2011 19:20

good explanation of yesterdays raids here:

http://cencio4.wordpress.com/2011/03/20 ... explained/

I am amazed people are able to use HF receivers to snoop on all the a/c moving in and out of theater, even B2s flying back over the atlantic!
nai dilli would have a heart attack if we did that in India.