Malaysian Airlines Flight MH-370 goes missing

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2014 07:40

perhaps a accomplice among the flight crew poisoned the beverage served to the pilots. or let in the faithfools into the cockpit during serving food.

by now atleast some floating wreckage should have been found....

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 11 Mar 2014 08:29

ramana wrote:With five passengers from India, GOI should join the search mission. And not offer platitiudes from Khurshi*.

Use those P-3 Orions purchased with so much fanfare from US. Get them some practice.

The IN received 3 of 8 P-8I aircraft from Boeing late last year. I seriously doubt the IN, or for that matter the USN, has completed all operational training on this aircraft. Operational training can take a very long time.

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Mar 2014 09:11

70 hours now. Flight MH370, where are you?

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 Mar 2014 09:11

SwamyG wrote:I am sure India knows a little more than what it is willing to reveal as well.

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May be this guy would know.

negi · Post by **negi** » 11 Mar 2014 10:29

Don't the modern civilian AC have GPS beacons in some kind of bullet proof casings ? Something which should go active as soon as the pilot initiates the emergency procedure ?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 11 Mar 2014 10:46

According to the latest Malaysian briefings they've expanded the search *west* of the Malay peninsula into the Malacca straight between Sumatra and peninsular Malaysia, effectively expanding upto the Andaman Sea. That's a pretty long way from the Gulf of Thailand, and is much less busier. The Aceh region is probably still a ghost town ever since it was devastated in the 2004 tsunami.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 11 Mar 2014 10:47

4 passengers not showing up for boarding after check-in is a big number. The check-in luggage in such cases is offloaded (which is a pretty standard routine in all the airlines after 9/11) and the passenger marked as offload. Noshow is different. Airlines try to avoid offloading pax because it leads to delay (upto couple of hours) in departure. The luggage is pulled out of the belly of aircraft and if it is a wide body aircraft, the ULD containing the luggage is pulled out, the luggage removed and then the remaining ULDs loaded again. It is a LIFO operation. If the ULD is farthest from the cargo door, then the delay will be more.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 11 Mar 2014 11:50

Looking on a map, the spot where the flight went off radar is equidistant from Malaysian waters off Sarawak, Kalimantan, Banda Aceh & the A&N islands.

Searching the Mallaca straits is a job straight out of hell.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 11 Mar 2014 12:27

Malacca straits is 24x7 full of traffic. Any debris falling out of the sky would be visually seen by hundreds of surface vessels. Anyone has the flight plans for the AC? Even these waters are crawling with fishing boats and nets 24 x 7..

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2014 13:36

the island of borneo - shared between malaysia, indonesia and brunei does have some thick vegetation and Mt.Kinabalu.
not sure how thickly the malaysian part is settled.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 11 Mar 2014 13:55

Malaysian officials non-committal on MH370 ACARS transmissions

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ns-396857/

Officials investigating the disappearance of a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777-200ER are tight-lipped about Aircraft Communications and Reporting System (ACARS) data reported by the aircraft.

Malaysia’s Department of Civil Aviation is examining ACARS data from the missing aircraft, but senior DCA officials declined to comment on their findings, if any. They also declined to say when ACARS data from flight MH370 will be released – or even if it will be.

In response to a question posed by Flightglobal about the aircraft’s ACARS data, one of the officials cited the “sensitivity of the investigations.”

The comments were made after a ministry of transport press conference scheduled for 1100 was cancelled, apparently indefinitely. According to the Twitter account of acting transport minister Hishamuddin Hussein, he instead embarked on one of the search and rescue flights looking for the aircraft in the Straits of Malacca on Malaysia’s west coast.

Media reports have said that no ACARS data was received from the aircraft when its transponder disappeared from radar at 0130 local time on Saturday 8 March. The aircraft mysteriously vanished halfway between the Malaysian town of Kota Bahru and the southern tip of Vietnam as it operated the Kuala Lumpur-Beijing route.

"All Malaysia Airlines aircraft are equipped with continuous data monitoring system called ACARS which transmits data automatically," says MAS. "Nevertheless, there were no distress calls and no information was relayed."

Presumably the aircraft would have transmitted ACARS data prior to its disappearance, but an industry source familiar with ACARS says this would be entirely dependent on the level of service enshrined in MAS’s ACARS contract with one of two ACARS service providers, ARINC or SITA.

Use of ACARS among carriers varies widely. Users of the service can have data transmitted at widely varying intervals, such as every minute to every thirty minutes.

When an aircraft is flying over land, ACARS data is transmitted via VHF to ground stations, but over water the data is transmitted to satellites.

Typically ACARS data has a narrow focus, with engine performance being the most widely monitored aspect of aircraft health. The flight crew can also deactivate ACARS transmissions if they elect to do so.

Nonetheless, ACARS data proved crucial for gaining an early understanding of Air France flight AF447, which crashed 1 June 2009. Within three days of this aircraft’s disappearance investigators released ACARS data, revealing that the aircraft had transmitted a number of failure reports for various aircraft systems.

It is far from clear, however, if ACARS data will be of similar use in the MH370 case.

The search for the missing aircraft, which carried 227 passengers and 12 crew, has entered its fourth day, with ships and aircraft scouring the Gulf of Thailand and the Straits of Malacca.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Mar 2014 13:56

If the debris is not in the sea, it must be on land no?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Mar 2014 14:32

If the aircraft had exploded,then debris would've been found over a wide area.Perhaps something catastrophic happened in the cockpit that pout the pilots out of action and the aircraft plummeted straight down.This should've been seen on ATC /mil/ radar.In such a case the aircraft would've nosedived into the sea intact ,why little or no debris has been discovered.

Many years ago,a TWA flight 800 taking off from JFK in the US cashed into the sea.The reason given after an inquiry was that the plane's fuel tanks had exploded.The actual truth suppressed was that it had been shot down by accident in a secret naval exercise.Burn marks ,residue on cushions were indicative of missile propellant and not aviation fuel.The allegation was that the USN was conducting a littoral warfare exercise in identifying air targets against the backdrop of the littoral coastline of an enemy,to avoid another Iranian airbus A-300 Flight 655 tragedy,accidentally shot down by the USN Vincennes in the Gulf. The Vincennes was actually in Iranian territorial waters at the time.

Former investigators 'break silence' about NTSB cover-up of TWA Flight 800 crash
A group of former NTSB investigators argue in an upcoming documentary that the crash, which occurred off the coast of Long Island in 1996 and killed 230 people, was not caused by a fuel tank explosion, as the agency said.

By Larry Mcshane / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Wednesday, June 19, 2013

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z2ve536rkZ

Did something similar happen to the KAL aircraft?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2014 14:33

true. but every land surrounding that region is thickly populated. a 777 crashing with tons of fuel on board would be noticed for tens of miles.

people are seriously throwing up alien abduction CT.

if it was a bomb had to be a full-caliber 20kg mil grade thing placed under the nose area to smash all the avionics and control systems.

and there are no loose wildcats like Noko in that region, shooting off random S300 missiles.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2014 14:41

Singha wrote:the island of borneo - shared between malaysia, indonesia and brunei does have some thick vegetation and Mt.Kinabalu.
not sure how thickly the malaysian part is settled.

settled along the coastal regions, but it is pretty sparse. the interior is very very dense jungle and steep huge mountains. locals in the interior still live in largely hunter-gatherer mode and include legendary tribes like the head-hunting dayaks. people go missing in these jungles and vanish, or are found after the most arduous survival stories. it is unlikely that something as big as a 777 can vanish in the jungle, but it is possible

as a guide to the jungle density - during the malaysian-indonesian war, sas troops working for malaysia used to set up patrol zones that were no more than a sq km or two and spent 6 months in that tiny location with barely any contact with indonesian troops that were clearly on the other side of the ridge/line (from radio traffic)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2014 14:49

khan need to deploy the heavy armour in terms of E-8 to sweep the forests in SAR mode and P-3 with MAD or other optic sensors. the vietnamese are using An-12 planes with people peering from windows using binoculars. even our CG Do-228 have better amosp optronics pods and radar.

Cheen is sending assets for sure.

member_28440 · Post by **member_28440** » 11 Mar 2014 14:51

Mohan Kumaramangalam's Grandson Confirmed on Missing Plane

Uma Mukherjee, who lives in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), is the daughter of the late Mohan Kumaramangalam, who was a minister in Indira Gandhi's cabinet. He was among the 48 people killed when an Indian Airlines plane crashed near New Delhi airport in 1973.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Mar 2014 15:53

ramana wrote:One thing I am not clear is if Interpol "lost passport" database is accessible for airlines or only police forces? If the later then the Interpol chief is talking through his hat and scoring cheap points at this time.

It is available to Immigration officials at the airports.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Mar 2014 15:54

ramana wrote:With five passengers from India, GOI should join the search mission. And not offer platitiudes from Khurshi*.

Use those P-3 Orions purchased with so much fanfare from US. Get them some practice.

Just because elections are annonuced doesn't mean give up governance.

yeah we can map south china sea as well.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2014 16:20

acars may not be of much use. it depends on the configuration - but mostly its used for routine maintenance status reporting and more specifically for out-off-on-in time clocking. carriers may opt not to use position reporting or access satellite comms over water (out of vhf range). if available at best it will indicate that x mins before dissapearance y was the health of onboard systems - may be useful, may be not

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 11 Mar 2014 16:27

Phones of MH370 passengers ringing, online accounts active, claim relatives

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Mar 2014 16:29

Live: Malaysia military says radar tracked plane near Malacca strait

Something fishy here. Malaysians are not coming clean.

4.00 pm: Malaysia military track plane to Malacca strait

Air Force chief Rodzali Daud has now confirmed that based on military radar readings from its station in Butterworth, the missing flight MH370 may have turned west after Kota Bahru and flew past the east coast and Kedah.

"The last time the plane was detected was near Pulau Perak, in the Straits of Malacca, at 2.40am," Berita Harian quotes Rodzali as saying.

This contradicts earlier reports that the aircraft had disappeared from radar screens 120 nautical miles off Kota Bharu and over the South China Sea, at 1.30am on 8 March.

The Utusan Malaysia newspaper reported that 20,000 fishermen nationwide have been roped in to help in the search-and-rescue operation. The newspaper quoted Agriculture and Agro-based Industries Minister Ismail Sabri Yaakob as saying that this would involve 1,788 fishing boats around the waters off Kelantan, Terengganu, Perlis, Perak and Penang.

The fishermen were roped in at the request of acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein.

3.45 pm: Malaysia to start searching Malacca strait for missing jet

Malaysia says it may have tracked the missing plane near the Malacca strait.

The Malaysian military has said that it believes that it has picked up radar signals from the plane off Malacca. The Airline had earlier said that the widened search included northern parts of the Malacca Strait, on the opposite side of the Malay Peninsula and far west of the plane's last known location.

According to the Telegraph, Malaysian civil aviation chief Azharuddin Abdul Rahman would not explain why crews were searching there, saying rather cryptically, "There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can't."

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 11 Mar 2014 16:48

If this was a terrorist operation, but no terrorist group has claimed credit, it must be that this was a test run for something bigger. They would want to try out their concept, and also make sure that little evidence survived.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 11 Mar 2014 16:50

Kalpakkam?

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 16:53

Sorry but I HAD to comment on this, however inappropriate it is at this time:

Chennai-based International Collective in Support of Fish Workers, was also travelling on the flight to attend a conference in Ulan Batore Mongolia

Tragic, but a conference on FISH WORKERS in Ulan Bator? Flood Control International Symposium in Ati, (Chad)?

The only way that a fire would have gone out by morning and the smoke been unremarkable, is if it was COMPLETELY out of fuel at impact. Then maybe there would not have been enough heat to start the aluminum burning. So one hypothesis is that it must have hit water, maybe landed gently enough to not set off a fire, but yes, break up the aircraft and make it sink. In which case there would still have been enough debris floating. Don't these much-acclaimed spy satellites that can read the tattoo on General Musharraf's Paul Courtright when he bees against his Mansion wall, solve this problem easily? I thought they could catch and record the thermal signature of submarine wakes from satellites, back in the 1970s, per James Bond (The Spy Who Loved Me)????

There must be many WW2 landing strips in that nbd, incl. in eastern SL. But also plenty of vegetation so by now the camouflage should be perfect. What's with the cellphone ringing? Won't that happen even if the phone is kaput? The ring tone is software generated electronic, not acoustic from the ringing phone, hain? Obviously if anyone could call out they would have by now, and I think several passengers probably had phones with global coverage (esp. in Asia) - but not satphones since the Pains have banned those at most customs points. So either the hijackers have searched and confiscated all cellphones ( a strip search would do that except for Pakis who prefer to carry their phones up their musharrafs) but would have had to be done while the plane was still in the air where few could reach any cell coverage.

Wonder what place around there has NO cellphone coverage of any sort... and has an airstrip. Worth considering at least as long as first door or half-burned seat cushion or toy duck has not been seen floating...

So did someone deliberately put down a 9-mile long oil slick I wonder (it bought a good 36 hours of misdirected search), or are those common there?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Mar 2014 17:04

my understanding is, generally - the callers phone does not get ring if receiver phone is not on or battery dead or out of network. it goes straight to voicemail or an 'unavailable' message. of course different phones and different networks may have different behavior.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 17:17

Well.. the authorities say that they did not get any ring tone "on one of the numbers provided". Man, the reporting is lousy. Why don't they tell us that either NONE of those worked, or actually get reliable reports? You'd think this is important evidence, hain?

Ramana:

Ok wiki says its a 6 hour flight from KLL to Beijing. The plane was two hours towards Gulf of Thailand when radar contact was lost. So to double back to Malaysia would take another two hours So 6-2-2 = 2 more hours of fuel left.Probably less due to low altitude.

Nope. Read the first reports when the plane went missing (Policy in Ulan Bator: ignore all reports that come after ppl have time to spin/twist facts). They said: "The plane had 7.5 hours of fuel left when it went off radar". At that point it was 12 hours after disappearance, which is why they said that. I can't say WHY they loaded that much fuel, but that's what the report said. Maybe full cargo/ baggage load did not come in.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2014 17:19

Asylum seekers wanted to hijack plane to Australia under radar cover maybe?
water south of Indonesia is very deep...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2014 17:46

Per Malaysia military plane was still at 29000ft at western end of malacca strait.
with arnd 6 hrs fuel still left speed arnd 800kmph, it could reach 4800km in any direction.
it did not come to land. Could have flown to middle of indian ocean well past Diego garcia and crashed.
maybe a failure of oxygen put everyone out nd plane flew on last heading.

has happened to a mig29 in India which flew 100s of km before fatal crash.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 11 Mar 2014 17:58

Plainly evident the Malaysians are not coming clean, 7.5 hours worth of fuel not enough for an Indian Ocean crossing to Somalia. Crossing to Oz also unlikely as their OTH would have raised the alarm as soon as flight crossed Indonesia.

Which brings us to a theory of re-emergence of pirates in atolls close to Maldives as a possible theory. Reports of stolen passport holders being of Iranian appearance.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 18:03

This is sad: Don’t rely on Google Maps to search for plane, says Google

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 11 Mar 2014 18:10

Depressurization might explain the "mumbled response, noisy transmission" comment from other pilots. I don't think oxygen deficiency at 29,000 feet will kill or knock out anyone that fast: people climb Everest without oxygen these days. If it leveled out and no response from cockpit, others would have tried to break down the door. Maybe with no success since they don't encourage flt attendants or passengers to carry axes etc. But since it disappeared from military radar (or did it go out of range, they won't say..) maybe it was descending under control, in which case they would have recovered from the oxygen deficiency. They could also predict the impact area better assuming it was not under control or autopilot, just descending at constant engine and controls settings.

Reports of stolen passport holders being of Iranian appearance.

Not issue any more: Iranian 19-year-old and 29-year-old trying to emigrate to Oirope. Confirmed.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 11 Mar 2014 18:11

UlanBatori wrote:Well.. the authorities say that they did not get any ring tone "on one of the numbers provided". Man, the reporting is lousy. Why don't they tell us that either NONE of those worked, or actually get reliable reports? You'd think this is important evidence, hain?

Ramana:
Ok wiki says its a 6 hour flight from KLL to Beijing. The plane was two hours towards Gulf of Thailand when radar contact was lost. So to double back to Malaysia would take another two hours So 6-2-2 = 2 more hours of fuel left.Probably less due to low altitude.
Nope. Read the first reports when the plane went missing (Policy in Ulan Bator: ignore all reports that come after ppl have time to spin/twist facts). They said: "The plane had 7.5 hours of fuel left when it went off radar". At that point it was 12 hours after disappearance, which is why they said that. I can't say WHY they loaded that much fuel, but that's what the report said. Maybe full cargo/ baggage load did not come in.

Many airlines have enough fuel for a return journey. I was once caught in a huge storm in the middle of Bay of Bengal when I was traveling from Singapore back to India. Chennai airport was flooded and instead of being diverted to another airport they flew back to Singapore and whn I asked about fuel they told me that they always ahd enough fuel for the return trip (Also fuel costs in India are terribly high !).That was the trip where my plane dropped nearlu 10000 feet and when the plane dropped things started to float ! I was thinking that was it!!Was stranded in Singapore for 3 days and we were daily shuttling from hotel to airport and back !!

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Mar 2014 18:11

A_Gupta wrote:If this was a terrorist operation, but no terrorist group has claimed credit, it must be that this was a test run for something bigger. They would want to try out their concept, and also make sure that little evidence survived.

A_GuptaJi, not all terrorists immediately claim credit. Many a times, terrorists maintain strict silence, while laughing their back sides off that the message has been sent to the intended recipients. Case in point is when Israel knocks off Arabs who it feels pose a threat to it. Or closer to home, the 100s of terror attacks inflicted on India by Paki ISI. How often have they taken credit? 26/11 was an out and out Paki ISI/military operation, but did they take credit? But they sure did send a message to India, those who matter that is. And in the case of ISI, they add insult to injury by "condemning" the very attack they executed, and then offer help and also UN investigate.

But on this one, I am not sure this was a terrorist attack. There don't seem to be any obvious motives or passengers with deep rooted grievance against any of the states of interest: Malaysia or China. But who knows.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 11 Mar 2014 18:19

Its cruel on my part to bring in politics when 240 people are dead and still no answers, but as I watch the Malaysians struggle with the investigation, I shudder to think what would be the western, Chinese, and DDM reaction had this been an Indian plane that went missing. Can you imagine the racist contempt that would have been hurled by the likes of NYT etc on India's incompetence and the chorus taken up by self flagellating DDM with their pet peeves on India not being able to fly an aircraft but wastes money on space launches and the like.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2014 18:50

the chinese have been berating the malaysians already

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Mar 2014 18:59

CRs, A general rule is if you feel uncomfortable bringing up something then don't!

UB maye the Bermuda Triangle shifted to Indian Ocean!

Malaysians are holding back.

The minister should be dismissed for calling those stolen passport travellers as being from Africa.
And he should get a mental checkup along with his eyes.

How come there are no protests from African countries about the gross fingerpointing?

---
LM ture but China has issues with Malays already.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 11 Mar 2014 19:01

yes and the name calling is in line with the historical issues, no surprises there

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Mar 2014 19:14

people do get to everest summit without O2 bottles but onlee after 2 months of camping at 18,000ft and making repeated forays up and down to advance camps to acclamatise and get ready for the good day.
plus they wear warm clothing to cope with the temp.

if it had continued flying level at 29,000ft with a gap in the roof, people would not cope once the limited O2 supply on board got exhausted.

I think pilots train to make rapid descents down to around 10,000ft in such cases...whare is thick and warm enough.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Mar 2014 19:21

As time goes, it is possible we may never find the aircraft. It is a big planet and the oceans are deep. Debris scatters and the waters are full of trash and floats already. Things become harder and harder to trace without telemetry and after 2+ days have gone by now. I remember that Balloon guy, Steve Fossett’s plane went missing and was not found for 2 years. And this over land and in an area with 1000’s of climbers and campers scattered around. No one saw anything.

There are many Aircraft that have gone missing and never found but usually not a commercial flight. There a few missing commercial planes from the 1950-1960’s apparently.