shiv wrote:Johann wrote:Shiv,
It takes money to put out a message. It takes money to sustain organisations.
Johann you have provided a secular explanation for a religious issue and have tippy-toed around one vital aspect
Two things here
1. Message
2. Money
If the money goes the message will not go. It may just become dormant.
Now please tell me what the message is. it is just as important that everyone knows and understands the message that all this money is spreading and what message it is that can lead to bestial killing provided the money is there.
Would you be able to say something about the message that is being spread with money. What is the message? What are the origins of the message? Will the message disappear or merely hide if there is no money. Would the message restart murder once money becomes available. is there any chance that the message will lead to more war and more killing of people? Can anything be done about the message? If so, what can be done?
'Absolute power corrupts absolutely' is the famous quote. But I think its not true. Its not the power that corrupts. Power only enhances the ability to carry out the intentions. Money, power, technology, tools, skills, ...etc increase the abilities. How those abilities will be used are determined by two factors:
a) needs - circumstances
b) intentions - nature of the person using it.
Intentions/nature of a person are determined by the company(Sangam) he keeps. If he keeps good company(Sath Sangam), then he is likely to become a person with good intentions. If he keeps bad company, then he likely to become a person with bad intentions.
How to define 'good' and 'bad'?
Bhagavadh Geetha gives a very simple but powerful definition of Sath i.e. good. 'Sath' or 'good' are those who think of others as similar to themselves. Bhagavadh Geetha is only repeating the classical Hindhu belief that Secret to Dharmic life is:
atmavat sarva-bhutesu yah pasyati sa panditah
One who sees all beings as similar to oneself is a pandita.
i.e. A pandita(the exact translation is 'a person who is ripe with knowledge') thinks in following manner: "all beings are like me. Just as I crave for pleasure and avoid pain, similarly other beings crave for pleasure and avoid pain. Just as I want good things to happen to me, others also want good things to happen to them. I like to be respected and appreciated, others want the same. I don't like to be insulted or harassed, others have similar feelings. So, don't do to others what you don't want others(all beings) to do to you and do to others(all beings) as you would have them do to you."
This outlook forms the basis of Dharmic i.e. good conduct. When you put yourself in others' shoes and feel for them, you are bound not to harm them. Because no one harms self.
Dharma or 'good conduct' has been summarized by Vyasa thus:
Paropakaraya Punyaya, Papaya Para Peedanam.
'Helping others is punya(merit/Dharma) and harming others is papa(sin/Adharma)'
This in short is the definition of 'good' and 'bad': If one helps others, then one is 'good'. If one harms others, one is 'bad'.
If one helps others without expecting anything in return, then one is really good.
If one helps others expecting something in return(including conversions), then it is a sort of a business transaction.
If one harms others in self-defence, then its not wrong. *
If one harms others as part of duty to punish the wrong doing, then its not wrong. #
If one harms others generally, then one is bad.
*When is harming in self-defence justified?
Bhagavadh Geetha lists people who can be harmed/punished. Such people are called Athathayinas i.e. 'terrorists' or 'miscreants'. Athathayinas are those people
a) who steal land/property and/or
b) who steal/rape women(human trafficking), and/or
c) who cause fire accidents and/or
d) who try to kill people.
These 4 crimes deserve death sentence according to Bhagavadh Geetha. In general, tit for tat behaviour is not considered wrong. If the other person is trying to harm 'you', then 'you' are allowed tit for tat according to this definition of 'good' or 'bad'.
#When is harming as part of duty justified?
People who have the responsibility to save the populace have the duty of punishing those who do crimes against populace. The 4 major crimes have been described above. There are other moral crimes and many minor crimes. Anyone who performs these crimes have to be punished by the Govt. The authority figure that implements the punishment is not 'bad' as long as the authority figure implements the justice without any favor or bias. Similarly, a soldier killing an enemy soldier in battle is not at wrong. However, one needs to be careful here because many groups form into militias and start killing people by claiming to be soldiers. So, its important to understand that a soldier can kill enemy soldier only on battlefield. Killing citizens by the soldier is not correct. If a soldier kills citizens, then he becomes a terrorist. Soldiers cannot harm citizens. Soldiers can only harm enemy soldiers and that too only on battlefield. These definitions of 'good' and 'bad' help people in making proper judgements.
Blaming tools, money, power, skills, technology, ...etc is like trying to cure the symptoms instead of treating disease. If the intentions of a person/group are good, then money, power, tools, skills, tech, ...etc will increase their ability to do good. If the intentions of a person/group are bad, then money, power, tools, skills, tech, ...etc will increase their ability to do bad.
What are good ideologies, average ideologies and bad ideologies?
Good ideologies are those that preach that all creatures are similar or same same. If all are similar, then they are less likely to hate each other.
Average ideologies are those that are ambivalent on the issue. But, average ideologies have lots of intellectual and artistic components to keep its adherents occupied in some non-destructive activity.
Bad ideologies are those that preach 'us' are different from 'them'. 'us vs them' theme leads to hatred.
Worst ideologies are those that preach 'us' are different from 'them' And also lack any intellectual/artistic components. So, its adherents are wholly occupied in 'us vs them' theme which leads to hatred and eventual violence.
johneeG wrote:So, what can the preacher do?
Well, preacher turns to the only other topic that never fails to engage people: 'us vs them'.
There are several variations of 'us vs them' theme that preachers of different ideologies can indulge in. Eg: men vs women, boys vs men, infants vs old men, animals vs humans, liberal vs conservative, traditional vs modern, faithful vs unfaithful, ...etc.
Regardless of that particular variation, the larger them is always 'us vs them'. Obviously, in such a theme, the 'other' is dissed and cussed. This is why 'hate' gets propagated. Basically, this means that even if the present 'enemy' or 'other' is removed, the preacher/ideology will find some other 'enemy' or 'other' to stay relevant. The preacher or ideology needs the 'other' because they depend on 'us vs them' theme to stay relevant to their audience.
That means any ideology that wants to avoid ending up in such negative 'us vs them' theme should develop intellectual/philosophical or artistic/creative components within their ideology.
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Sunni vs Shia is just one variation of 'us vs them' theme. It could easily be muhajirs vs pakjabis or bengalis vs pakjabis or ...etc. It is not even limited to only malsI. Even if all Shias succeed in eliminating Sunnis or Sunnis succeed in eliminating the shias, the essential situation is not going to change much.
So, to avoid hatred and then consequent violence, ideologies have to come to the agreement that all creatures are essentially same same or similar.
If that is not possible, then the ideologies will have to develop intellectual/creative pursuits to keep the people occupied in some other activities.
johneeG wrote:Creative pursuits would mean arts like music, dance, acting, poetry, writing, acting, even fighting(or martial arts), games...etc. These activities also have lot of scope for exploration that a preacher can use to preach to his audience without boring them.
Both creative and intellectual pursuits have a common thing: In these activities, a person is competing with self. It is a sort of self-improvement mechanism. In a way, the activity becomes just a tool or method to improve oneself.
One finds that Bhaarathiya religions have a huge amount of philosophy and arts department. This allows the practitioners and preachers to engage themselves in lots of activity that involves philosophy or arts without boring themselves. Getting bored seems to be the biggest worry in the world. Mind craves some activity...any activity. An empty mind is a devil's workshop. If the mind is not constructively engaged, it will turn to destructive activities/thoughts. The same applies to ideologies.
Ideologies that lack philosophy and arts component provide a challenge to the preacher to come up with something engaging to his audience. This is a very difficult job. Almost any topic becomes stale after it is repeated sometimes. But a preacher has to live all his life preaching something or the other! If there are no preachers, then the ideology will die.
johneeG wrote:But, there is a negative in this aspect for the preacher or the ideology:
If the people start seriously practicing intellectual/philosophical or artistic/creative components, then they are less likely to listen the regular preaches of the preacher. As I said, people are likely to look at their own intellectual/artistic pursuits as a self-improvement mechanism. So, they will give greater importance to it and the importance of the preacher(or even the ideology) gets reduced. Why would a preacher/ideology want to encourage a component that is likely to reduce his/her own power?
Another danger for the preacher or ideology from intellectual/artistic pursuits is that those pursuits can be decoupled from the ideology and pursued independently by the people. If people start following intellectual/artistic pursuits after decoupling it from the ideology, the ideology becomes completely sidelined and faced extinction.
But, generally, the reason these intellectual/artistic components are not developed by all ideologies is because it is not easy to develop them. It requires a certain amount of talent, dedication, skill, technology, money, free-time, ...etc. And its not possible for a single person to do that suddenly. Its built over time gradually or passed down from previous generations. For both such activities to occur, there needs to be a relative peace or stability. If there is a lot of instability in the society, then it is unlikely for such components to develop.
People who practice intellectual/artistic pursuits would need patrons. That means some people would need to be ready to give money to these people. That means there needs to be respect for intellectuals or artists. Only in an environment where the intellectuals/artists are respected, can the intellectual/artistic pursuits possible.
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