If you compare with off-the-shelf foreign products, new indigenously developed products will always be more expensive. With this criterion, the indigenous products will never see the light of day.
Resident Cheeni troll is trolling here over tank prices when all of their tanks and an overwhelming majority of their weapons are direct ripoffs of Russian stuff. Dude R&D is not same us revvrse engineering and stealing designs.Are Sir, maaf kar dijiye. In fact we should buy more Arjun to reduce the cost. No intention of being part of anti-Arjun brigade or someone who tries to take advantage of a simple calculation.Kakkaji wrote:If you compare with off-the-shelf foreign products, new indigenously developed products will always be more expensive. With this criterion, the indigenous products will never see the light of day
Jaao maaf kiya.dhiraj wrote:Are Sir, maaf kar dijiye.
Phir kabhi humaarey pyaarey Arjun ko badnaam mat karna.Kakkaji wrote:The fact that Liu showed up on this thread just after the news for the Arjun Mark2 order came out, shows that the adversaries are feeling 'mirchi' up their a$$e$ on the news.
And boo to Dhiraj for cribbing about costs of Arjun.
And they managed to develop, test and validate the Arjun MkII in three months after taking office! #acchedinAditya_V wrote:Anther intresting fact, it was the NDA govt which ordered 124 Arjun-1's and now ordering the Arjun MK-II.
Aditya V: In this jingo battle of Services Vs. Scientists, the real culprits always get spared. So your views on the matter are nice for change. One will see that almost all indigenous programmes have moved as per the Governments of the time and the GOI's wishes. A careful time vs. development vs. achievement vs. financial support study will also bring about this conclusion for all defence related programmes.Aditya_V wrote:Anther intresting fact, it was the NDA govt which ordered 124 Arjun-1's and now ordering the Arjun MK-II.
What did the UPA Govt do for 10 years, they cancelled the Denel anti material rifle deal since it was causing too many Pakistani casualties, delayed Barak-1 and triedto cancel the indegenious manufacture of 155 mm shells, turned the M-2000-5 order into the MMRCA contest which they did not sign in 10 years.
Only Italian Baretta SMG's, C-130 J, C-17 and luckily P-8I got priority. Also they did good job of ordering Akash.
It seems the whole philosphy was we should not buy offensive weapons.
China sent T96a for recent competition in RUssia.chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
+10 to these points. Hopefully the govt. is looking at areas mentioned by Aditya_V ji too. Guns need ammunition too to be effective, for example.dhiraj wrote:Are Sir, maaf kar dijiye. In fact we should buy more Arjun to reduce the cost. No intention of being part of anti-Arjun brigade or someone who tries to take advantage of a simple calculation.Kakkaji wrote:If you compare with off-the-shelf foreign products, new indigenously developed products will always be more expensive. With this criterion, the indigenous products will never see the light of day
Chacko any idea how many Arjun MkI have been delivered to Army out of total 124+124 ordered.chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
mr liu from 50 cent party wants to tell that ,they have sent an under powered tank to a competition where mobility is a prime factor. now that arjun have come online ,his desperation is quite understandable.Liu wrote:China sent T96a for recent competition in RUssia.chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
T96a is just the low-end MBT of PLA,which costs only 1/3 of T99a.
In order to control the unit cost of T96a, Chinese have to put one cheap small engine into T96 while give T96a decent cannon, FCS and armor .
Thus, T96a have a poorer mobility ,but better cannon ,FCS and armor than T72.
Just having a look at the video of the competition in Russia ,we can see that moving T96a can lock and destroy the target much more efficiently than T72, while T72 has much better mobility than T96a....
in a word, CHinese engineers pay much more attention to FCS,cannon and armor than mobility while Russians pay more attention to mobility....
Mr Chairman is not impressed !!NRao wrote:This Chinese tank failed to function.
Nice insight, Arjun MBT giving lots of burns to Cheap-panda and their cheap-panda tanks! Mogambo khush hua.....negi wrote:You have to give to the Chipanda drones they never felt the heat when India bought more expensive systems like C-17 or even the MKIs however we build and commission an MBT ourselves and they show this concern for the tank being expensive. Not that they need to be be responded to but fact of the matter is a 10 million $ Arjun MKII is still cheaper than a 1 million $ T-90 , a major chunk of the 10 million $ price tag is leak(corruption) .....
Very funny reply. Now the tank is a cheap tank built by Chinese with so called decent stuff into it. Get yourself some chinese audience who will appreciate your incomprehensible logic.Liu wrote: China sent T96a for recent competition in RUssia.
T96a is just the low-end MBT of PLA,which costs only 1/3 of T99a.
In order to control the unit cost of T96a, Chinese have to put one cheap small engine into T96 while give T96a decent cannon, FCS and armor .
Thus, T96a have a poorer mobility ,but better cannon ,FCS and armor than T72.
Just having a look at the video of the competition in Russia ,we can see that moving T96a can lock and destroy the target much more efficiently than T72, while T72 has much better mobility than T96a....
in a word, CHinese engineers pay much more attention to FCS,cannon and armor than mobility while Russians pay more attention to mobility....
Actually there were reports last year that the the production was at fag end. I suppose the factory must be idling by now to make govt sit up and pass mk II with 10 odd less improvements originally desired.hecky wrote:Chacko any idea how many Arjun MkI have been delivered to Army out of total 124+124 ordered.chackojoseph wrote:All new Arjun inductions come with associated infrastructure as its a new tank. Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of cost. Also Liu has ridiculous argument in terms of Chinese tanks. They failed in recent competition in Russia. Tracks came off from their best maintained tank which they sent to Russia for competition. I don't think Chinese tanks will pass the test with Indian Army GSQR.
uddu wrote:Chaco, is it possible for you to ask the PM or the DM during any media event, why there is no huge orders for the Arjun in the thousand and only a mere order of 100?
Hopefully they are aware of the matter and would like to know the govt response to tide over the situation of low rate production of this great tank.
I have already mentioned MK III a year back. Its not going to be radically different. It will be iterations. There is no scope of downgrading tank weight in significant levels.Could you get some updates on this Mark III variant. Is this going to be the three men crew tank? a lighter version of Arjun tank?
There was no second 124 order for Mk.1 variant. That second order became 118 for Mk.2 variant, which was approved just recently. So the total Arjun orders/deliveries up to this point is 124 Mk.1 (delivered) and 118 Mk.2 (orders approved). Expect 2 years for the first lot delivery.chackojoseph wrote:Actually there were reports last year that the the production was at fag end. I suppose the factory must be idling by now to make govt sit up and pass mk II with 10 odd less improvements originally desired.hecky wrote:...
Chacko any idea how many Arjun MkI have been delivered to Army out of total 124+124 ordered.
Correct. the second order is going to be executed.srai wrote:There was no second 124 order for Mk.1 variant. That second order became 118 for Mk.2 variant, which was approved just recently. So the total Arjun orders/deliveries up to this point is 124 Mk.1 (delivered) and 118 Mk.2 (orders approved). Expect 2 years for the first lot delivery.hecky wrote:..
Chacko any idea how many Arjun MkI have been delivered to Army out of total 124+124 ordered.
Do you know that there is a FICV program under-way under the 'Make India' category where Indian firms in partnership with foreign players have been asked to submit their designs? And the fact that while 2 designs will be short-listed and R&D funded mostly by MOD (80:20 Public Private), one design will be short-listed? And not only that, the losing party will get order to manufacture certain percentage of winning design as well?Rien wrote:^^^^
Above makes sense. But Army needs to place order for thousands. When will they give Tata the order?
I wonder what was the real reason for stalling the original 2009 proposal? Were the bids not realistic in terms of design and indigenous content? Or some other reason?rohitvats wrote:Do you know that there is a FICV program under-way under the 'Make India' category where Indian firms in partnership with foreign players have been asked to submit their designs? And the fact that while 2 designs will be short-listed and R&D funded mostly by MOD (80:20 Public Private), one design will be short-listed? And not only that, the losing party will get order to manufacture certain percentage of winning design as well?Rien wrote:^^^^
Above makes sense. But Army needs to place order for thousands. When will they give Tata the order?
Read this: http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... le-Program
There was some stupid bureaucratic issue with the RFP released by MOD! And in glorious tradition of Saint Antony, the process got stuck for a prolonged period.merlin wrote:I wonder what was the real reason for stalling the original 2009 proposal? Were the bids not realistic in terms of design and indigenous content? Or some other reason?rohitvats wrote: Do you know that there is a FICV program under-way under the 'Make India' category where Indian firms in partnership with foreign players have been asked to submit their designs? And the fact that while 2 designs will be short-listed and R&D funded mostly by MOD (80:20 Public Private), one design will be short-listed? And not only that, the losing party will get order to manufacture certain percentage of winning design as well?
Read this: http://www.defensenews.com/article/2014 ... le-Program
But the MoD’s Acquisitions Wing, which must make the short list, now complains that the tender (called an Expression of Interest, or EoI) did not define the criteria by which the winners would be selected. It wants a fresh EoI to be issued, with the criteria specified.
The wing cites the Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) of 2008, where Para 22 of the “Make” category, covering the FICV project, says: “The EoI should also lay down the broad parameters of the evaluation process and acceptance criterion for the system under development.”