Internal Security Watch

[Jarita]

^^^ The British designed it. The congress with it';s foreign supporters have finessed it to a fine art

[RomeshT]

Found on the web: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=2212357

Basically, the theory proposed in this paper is that to neutralize Muslim radicalism and to address the Muslim socio-economic backwardness, one needs to bring down the standing of sharia in such communities.

Abstract: While the consensus view is that the Islamization process started in the 1970s and that the hosting of the anti-Soviet insurgency has led to radicalization of Pakistan, including the formation of transnational militant groups, scholars have made little headway in understanding the role of ideological narratives of sharia and those who propagate them. This article addresses these shortcomings by comparing the evolution of Muslim-majority Pakistan and Hindu-majority India and their respective immigrations to Britain in the context of clerical influence, most notably through the platform of sharia. This paper advances the premise that, thanks to an all-embracing narrative of sharia, clerical influence in Pakistan has acted as the main medium of violent radicalization.

[svinayak]

^^^ The British designed it. The congress with it';s foreign supporters have finessed it to a fine art

It is not simple.
The sociology studies started in 60s , 70, 80s and continued in 90s when the mass media was also put to pursue the same socio-political goals is what gives them the power to do this.

There is constant discussion within the leftist, marxist circles in the west and India. Entire generation has been led to beleive that what they are doing is the right thing for India and Indians! This is the largest hidden socio-political experiment going on in history

[Prem]

ILicensed firearms of Jats have been confiscated by police, Jats dont have illegal firearms, few they have are desi kattas while pissfuls have AK47There is a lot of mistrust and situation is worse than 1947, in 47 rural areas were not affected.There has been retaliation...not much though.
Adminstration is gone from favouring pissful to working agianst Jats.
Modes pls delete post if this is agianst forum guidelines. These are my views based on telephonic conversation.

All i can say, lets pray and hope when the new administration take charge in 2014, the new Internal security force of Half a Million must have 25% quota for Jaats. Todays blood sacfrifices shall only add to the determination for the xtermination of the vermins and termites of all varieties.I forsee the collapse of law and order as well economy around NCR.

[vishvak]

It is important to show sanghatan for Jat today - any which way. If Jat samaaj gets no sympathy then what is the message?

By this time help and aid should be pouring in for Jat - on the scale of floods in Uttaranchal probably.

[RamaY]

It is important to show sanghatan for Jat today - any which way. If Jat samaaj gets no sympathy then what is the message?

By this time help and aid should be pouring in for Jat - on the scale of floods in Uttaranchal probably.

Please post how one could help them? I hope RSS creates a separate account for this.

[kittoo]

It is important to show sanghatan for Jat today - any which way. If Jat samaaj gets no sympathy then what is the message?

By this time help and aid should be pouring in for Jat - on the scale of floods in Uttaranchal probably.

Any way in which we can contribute? Can we create a platform where we can send monetary help to the Jats, especially riot hit Hindu Jat families?

[member_23365]

I am Jat myself, sorry but it was not my intention at all to paint it as Jat vs muslim. I am in Canada not at the ground ,info I had is based on talking to my Jat friends in Delhi. Jats are fighting alone excepts few Gujjars no other community is with them today. These are ground realties as per my info. Let alone other communities even Jat politician are not coming out in their support.
Another thing I like to point out is media is trying to blame on Modi and Amit Shah, no modi factor here. Rural folk may know modi but they have never heard of Amit Shah.

[vishvak]

Can't find much on the net though I am sure Hindu sanghatan sansthaa must be working 24/7.

Plus during clampdown and arrests it becomes much more difficult at the time when it is needed the most. This is why much efforts are always needed.

[Anindya]

From Sept 2...

BSP MP, 2 MLAs booked for provocative speech

The Uttar Pradesh Police Sunday registered an FIR against BSP MP Kadir Rana and two party MLAs for their alleged inflammatory speeches at a public meeting organised in the wake of a triple murder, which took place in Kawal village of the Muzaffarnagar district on August 27.

The FIR comes a day after the police arrested former minister and Rashtriya Lok Dal leader Dharamvir Baliyan, party's district president Ajit Rathi and 10 other political activists, when they tried to visit Kawal village where two from Hindu community and one from the minority community had died in a communal flare-up.

The police booked Rana and MLAs Noor Saleem Rana of Charthawal and Jameel Ahmed of Meerapur, both in Muzaffarnagar, under Section 341, 153-A and violation of section 144 of the CrPC.

Also see Class IX student raped in Shamli; minor gang raped in Sambhal

A Class IX student was allegedly raped by a youth at Lilon village in Uttar Pradesh’s Shamli district, police said in Muzzafarnagar on Saturday. On Friday, the 13-year-old girl was intercepted by the accused when she was on her way to school. The youth Dilshad falsely told the girl that her father is ill, took her to a nearby house where he raped her, Deputy Superintendent of Police Prakash Kumar told reporters.

Irate people gheraoed the police station in protest against the incident, he added.

Meanwhile, a minor girl was gang raped in Asmoli area in Uttar Pradesh's Sanbhal allegedly by three youths, police said today. The incident took place on Aug 13 when the 16-year-old girl was allegedly raped by Alim, Kayyum and Tabarak of the same village, they said.

[nawabs]

It is from today's conference where akhilesh was wearing that topi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zH8oU_xBd4

And hear first line of this video.

"Garib, Muslim, Navjawano ki, aur khas kar garibon ki awaz wali sarkar Samajwadi Party Hi hai"

[Prem Kumar]

^^^ The British designed it. The congress with it';s foreign supporters have finessed it to a fine art

It is not simple.
The sociology studies started in 60s , 70, 80s and continued in 90s when the mass media was also put to pursue the same socio-political goals is what gives them the power to do this.

There is constant discussion within the leftist, marxist circles in the west and India. Entire generation has been led to beleive that what they are doing is the right thing for India and Indians! This is the largest hidden socio-political experiment going on in history

Acharya: can you elaborate?

[svinayak]

Acharya: can you elaborate?

Read the book Breaking India by Rajiv Malhotra, Arvindan Neelakandan

http://www.breakingindia.com/

[Prem Kumar]

I have the book but have only skimmed through it. Mainly because it makes for depressing reading. I thought it dealt more with South India - Dravidian fault lines

[Hari Seldon]

Some faultlines once breached tend to simmer for years - the Bodo-BD riots in Kokrajhar are one such example. The Bodos will *never* trust, side with or otherwise help the BD illegals in any way now on. The riots came and went months ago but their consequences and the internal partition they spawned exist on the ground and shall continue to do so for a generation at least.

I imagine the same will happen with West UP as well. As the realization dawns amongst all infidel castes and communities that the RoP has the largest non-state uscle in the region and is frothing for a fight against *everybody* else, what option but to polarize, whether silently or openly?

[Muppalla]

^^^ We has lost so much territory. We were in Afganistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh and on the eastern borders indic civilization taken over by China and western hegemony

If there is no area between Pak and W.UP, it is definitely part of Pak and Delhi would be new disputed area.

[svinayak]

Has anybody seen this

[habal]

@Tilak Vihar
that is a bit old news. Some Congress councillor or MLA was behind it.

regarding Jats being all alone in this, it is not accurate to think in that fashion because it is the question of some muslim youth harassing a girl. Today it is a Jat girl, tomorrow the same guy or similar guy can harass girl from any other community. This will be the underlined theme in the subconscious for all Hindus. This is what will aid consolidation. This much is obvious and very clear. There is not going to be any split from this, nor are Jats going to be left alone to defend themselves.

Before UP elections, I was thinking to myself that for vote consolidation, some reactionary group will have to take on the Muslim vote bank for polarisation to occur. So this is entirely the fault of Akhilesh and his crony gang to allow exactly this equation to build up. In my simulation of UP polarisation, I had also speculated Jats against Muslims, for not seeing any better alternatives, but my local knowledge is poor. So quite surprised at the turn of events happening so close to my random speculation. That this event has been allowed to simmer is also Akhilesh's handiwork because he could have stopped this entirely within 2 days of the incident. But he allowed elements to run riot.

Dismiss UP govt and arrest all males 16-40 from the village where the incident took place. Do some preventive policing, rest will fall in place for short term. Though social fault lines once cleaved cannot be wedged together, that is permanent. Akhilesh is doing this with full knowledge that polarisation will take place. And very likely he is doing it in connivance with another party.

[Dipanker]

<youtube>H2ocRvJY_VA</youtube>

Has anybody seen this

May I ask you why are you posting this now? Obviously you searched for this material on the internet so you must have a purpose in posting this.

[Dipanker]

@Tilak Vihar
that is a bit old news. Some Congress councillor or MLA was behind it.

regarding Jats being all alone in this, it is not accurate to think in that fashion because it is the question of some muslim youth harassing a girl. Today it is a Jat girl, tomorrow the same guy or similar guy can harass girl from any other community. This will be the underlined theme in the subconscious for all Hindus. This is what will aid consolidation. This much is obvious and very clear. There is not going to be any split from this, nor are Jats going to be left alone to defend themselves.

Before UP elections, I was thinking to myself that for vote consolidation, some reactionary group will have to take on the Muslim vote bank for polarisation to occur. So this is entirely the fault of Akhilesh and his crony gang to allow exactly this equation to build up. In my simulation of UP polarisation, I had also speculated Jats against Muslims, for not seeing any better alternatives, but my local knowledge is poor. So quite surprised at the turn of events happening so close to my random speculation. That this event has been allowed to simmer is also Akhilesh's handiwork because he could have stopped this entirely within 2 days of the incident. But he allowed elements to run riot.

Dismiss UP govt and arrest all males 16-40 from the village where the incident took place. Do some preventive policing, rest will fall in place for short term. Though social fault lines once cleaved cannot be wedged together, that is permanent. Akhilesh is doing this with full knowledge that polarisation will take place. And very likely he is doing it in connivance with another party.

The issue was couple of sikh kids drving their mobike rashly thorugh the neighboring Dalit colony, which escalated into stone pelting from both side, you can read more here:
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Del ... 028503.ece

[habal]

Dipankar, your source may well be accurate regarding trigger, and you also know there is old animosity between Valmikis & Sikhs in Tilak Vihar region stretching from 84, when Valmikis were hand-in-glove with Congress goons and formed a major part of it along with muslim butchers, and sundry acolytes. Congress role should be seen in that context. It has no relation to recent events in UP.

[Lilo]

+ Habal ji,
you are on dot - and the fact is many people in Tilak nagar are hand to mouth people easily forced to do the communal bidding of congressis.

In an unrelated news item to above, another set of internal pakis are revealing their true colors.

Muslim mob hoists Pakistan flag in Hyderabad's Exhibition Grounds

Pakistan's 65th Independence Day celebrations were illegally organized by a group of Muslims at Exhibition Grounds, in Hyderabad.

A GROUP of Muslims illegally organized Pakistan’s 65th Independence Day celebrations at Exhibition grounds, Hyderabad on August 15 - leading to communal tension there

Knowing that the Independence day celebrations of an 'enemy country' was going on - an 'enemy' country's flag was hoisted in Exhibition grounds, Nampally, Hyderabad.
The Vishwa Hindu Parishad rushed into action to stop this flag hosting. They said it was unethical to host an 'enemy' country's national flag. Police also responded, and took the control of Exhibition grounds - sending away both the groups from the grounds.
Still, as far as latest reports go, the police has not taken any action against those who hoisted Pakistan's flag, and tried to create communal tension. There has been no further action from the Police for any future action against the perperators of this incident.

[Prem]

Muzaffarnagar – Where Riots Turned into Pathology From Anatomy
http://centreright.in/2013/09/muzaffarn ... m-anatomy/

A dozen daily wage farm workers and simple village folk were travelling in a tractor as usual from Mod Khurd village to Munjhera in the hope that they could get a better deal for their labor next day. At the entrance to Munjhera is a mosque on the roadside which everyone has to pass through to enter the village. Hiding within the mosque were some 50-60 heavily armed men waiting in darkness to pounce upon any ‘Kafirs‘ who were unlucky enough to pass through on that fateful Friday evening.At the outskirts of the village, the driver and the leader of the farm workers realized that there was something really horrifying about the eerie silence in this minority dominated village, but he was too late. As the tractor ambled across the mosque road, it was met with scores of flying stones, which took them by surprise. This stone pelting continued for some time, even as the men tried to find cover in the trolley. Some industrious folk managed to jump ship and escape into the wilderness, but others weren’t so lucky.

The mob from the mosque then surrounded the tractor and pulled down some 6 men and threw them on the roadside. What happened over the next 30 minutes is too graphic to print – “it was the worst nightmare one could ever have” as per one of the survivors who is grievously injured and may not live long. The farm workers were first beaten up mercilessly and were then attacked with sharp weapons by a gang of 50 odd “mushtandey“. Finally, they were shot at pointblank range, so that they had no chance of surviving.Meanwhile, those who had escaped the stone pelting reached the local police station and complained about the attack, but to their utter frustration, the police refused to budge from their seats. For more than an hour the police refused to visit the mosque to rescue the victims and when they finally did reach the spot, they found three bodies lying in a pool of blood. Two of the dead were simply identified as that of Pappu and Joginder, while one other victim was still breathing. Three other farm workers are still missing, 3 days after the incident, and are presumed dead for all practical purposes. The Mosque Mob? By the time police reached the spot, all of them had returned back to their homes after their evening hunting expedition and were probably sleeping peacefully.This is not a one-off incident, this is what is happening across Muzaffarnagar district. These villages have been turned into killing fields even as rumors fly thick in the air. Nobody knows for certain how many people have died in the violence. Till late Monday night, the official tally still stood at around 31, but nobody believes that tally; not the ordinary folks, not local newspaper men, not political netas and not even the cops themselves. Everybody talks in whispers, some suggest “it’s more than a hundred“, while others presume “at least 250 dead in 10 days“. When official arithmetic marries political convenience, it begets rumor – an illegitimate child of conscience. It is indeed ironic that more than 65 years after independence we cannot even count our dead. (For instance, we are none the wiser about the actual death toll in the neighbouring Uttarakhand even after 3 months).
Muzaffarnagar district in particular and Western Uttar Pradesh in general has been a communal tinderbox for ages, yet these riots are unprecedented for one major reason. Riots in India are largely an urban phenomenon, for in the cities anonymous men fight and kill other anonymous men and women – or at least that is what was always postulated by ‘great’ secular social scientists till now. In our villages there was supposed to be just ‘communal tension’ not ‘communal rioting’, for everyone knows everyone else. This idyllic narrative of our villages where ‘communal tension’ is sorted out by community elders and village panchayats has been turned upside down.At the height of Babri Masjid conflict of 91-92-93, 90% of all rioting was centred around the cities. Even in India’s worst communal conflagration of the 1947 partition, violence was largely an urban phenomenon and the villages were mostly untouched – both in Punjab and Bengal. What has changed in 2013? Is this just a logical corollary of the neo-rurbanization phenomenon? Are there any external catalysts to this process of riot-flow from urban to rural?Yes our villages are no longer isolated from the world and news spreads at lightening speeds here too. News is no longer a two-dimensional phenomenon, for it has acquired an audio-visual element to it. What is more, news is now an interactive medium in the world of mobile telephony, internet and social media. Thus villages can react with violence as a legitimate tool. But there are other catalysts too. For instance, visit any village in Muzaffarnagar and you are likely to find new settlements of outsiders – a euphemism for “Bangladeshis” – who have now become part of the village political-economy. Add to this, the growing reach of the global Ummah philosophy combined with the fanaticism angle of “Islam Katre mein hai” and you have a potent mixture for disaster. In this concoction, when you add a large haul of “sophisticated arms, like hand grenades and AK 47s” smuggled from the Nepal border, you get a deadly syrup of violent riots.
Over the last few months there have been numerous reports of deadly weapons being circulated in UP, but the government has taken absolutely no action till date. There have been rumours that a powerful minister of the region belonging to the minority community is hand-in-glove with this whole exercise of arming a community to the teeth. In fact, quite a few vehicles have been raided by the police with large quantities of illegal weapons, but the state administration has adopted a “blind eye” policy towards this whole phenomenon. Finally, on Sunday, when the army conducted flag marches in various villages, some of the villagers actually fired back at the army, which eventually led to army ceasing a large haul of illegal arms.
When the riots began, the Jats of western UP did not know what hit them. Usually the farming community of western UP is highly organized and has a strongly militant outlook to any sort of perceived injustice, but they were totally underprepared to face this systematic attack. Jats and Muslims have had a longstanding alliance in this region, so it came as a big surprise to many of them that the idea of anti-Kafirism had entered into Western UP with such violence. The first few days were a complete surprise for the Jats as they faced these relentless attacks by organized mobs with unheard of weapons.Four days after the riots began, on the 31st of August, the Jats first called a Panchayat at Jaansaath Tehsil, but even after trying to organize themselves, they were hopelessly outmaneuvered. It was only after Narendra Tikait and Rakesh Tikait – both sons of the legendary farmer leader, Mahendra Singh Tikait – entered the scene that the fight back began in earnest. This is where the politics of UP underwent a radical shift in the span of just a fortnight.
First, BSP MP Kadir Rana, Congress leader Saiduzzaman and Samajwadi Party leader Rashid Siddiqui made a highly charged communal speech at Khaalapur on the 30th of August, which was attended by more than 15 thousand people, despite of prohibitory orders under section 144. Then the Mahapanchayat of 7th September was attended by Hukum Singh, Sangeet Som and Suresh Rana of BJP, former Congress MP Harinder Malik and the Tikait brothers of the BKU. This is the familiar pattern of the early 90′s when Muslim and Hindu leaders cutting across political parties joined forces to fight their battles. Thus Uttar Pradesh now stands polarized in totality, right from the villages up to the netas.
It is in this polarized state that the vultures landed 10 days after the riots started. It is natural for the vultures to feed on the dead and thus began a process of selective feeding based on their favored ideological positioning. The same Dilli News Media which was almost totally absent for 10 days when the violence was one-sided, went to Muzaffarnagar to create tales of minority victimhood. On Monday, suddenly our television screens were filled with skullcaps. Then Dilli media’s favorite whipping boy was brought out into open. Thus Muzaffarnagar riots found salvation in Amit Shah’s visit to Ayodhya and Narendra Modi’s ability to “polarize” the voters.This is the underlying pathology of the Muzaffarnagar riots, wherein reality is twisted by the media vultures to suit their own ideological convenience. Instead of blaming the real culprit, Samajwadi Party government of Uttar Pradesh, MSM blames every known adversary of Dilli-news media – Social Media, Modi, BJP, Amit Shah etc. In the real world, communal fire is spreading from the cities to villages, but media is busy peddling victimhood.

[Virendra]

Doing it's sickular duty, today's ToI was showing a small lonely muslim boy on the front page, like a poster refugee.
I wonder what they want it to look like .. riot or pogrom?
Is it so hard to see that this was atleast not a majority kills minority .. if not otherwise (for sake of political correctness).
Why are there clear and deliberate efforts to alter the story and overview that public consumes?
Too much BS lately. I think our community is always and subtly kept on a drug called intellectual delusion; a sophisticated and luxurious looking ahimsa complex that emanates a forged smell of peace and prosperity.

[habal]

it seems after Army took over operations in Muzaffarabad, a crackdown on an SP apparatchik in Khala Par has yielded 5 AK-47s and 13 hand grenades. Also 4 Bangladeshi sharp shooters have been held from this house as well.

It seems, as if some JMB cadre are being given shelter by groups in UP.

[vishvak]

it seems after Army took over operations in Muzaffarabad, a crackdown on an SP apparatchik in Khala Par has yielded 5 AK-47s and 13 hand grenades. Also 4 Bangladeshi sharp shooters have been held from this house as well.

It seems, as if some JMB cadre are being given shelter by groups in UP.

Its tragic how no one asks questions about assault weapons, hand grenades, sharpshooters, infiltrators, attacks on farmers returning by Muslims, firing from masjids, missing people, murders, riots and pillage.

Just like attacks on Hindus in Jammu the state CM talks of Gujarat CM NaMo!

For 10 days media didn't even investigate. Sonia is in US, PM is in Delhi or may be still in Europe, dilli billi are as usual silent during riots. Jat only have Mahapanchaayat to discuss this but people going over and coming back from Mahapamchaayat were attacked too. This is state of security situation especially during first 10 days.

Assault rifles, grenades were given to Muslims and no one knew - hard to believe- but may be that is secularism.

[darshhan]

it seems after Army took over operations in Muzaffarabad, a crackdown on an SP apparatchik in Khala Par has yielded 5 AK-47s and 13 hand grenades. Also 4 Bangladeshi sharp shooters have been held from this house as well.

It seems, as if some JMB cadre are being given shelter by groups in UP.

I am not surprised at all. Just because Hindus are being nice(Dhimmis actually) doesn't mean jihad monkeys will also be nice. Their agenda and objectives are crystal clear. One only has to refer to the nearest Quran or its translation at hand. There is absolutely no ambiguity on their part when it comes to dealing with Kafirs.

Oh by the way in Moradabad, one teenage girl was burnt alive(85% burns) by three islamists when she resisted them. The identity of the girl is not known(whether Hindu or Muslim). The media was hiding the names of perpetrators too. However the girl blurted out one of the names(sarfaraz) during video interview. The journalist interviewing her was not very comfortable

[darshhan]

The most far reaching implication of a fast rising islamic population and their even faster rising audacity will be felt by non muslim women including hindus. In large parts of India, they will not be able live, dress and move as they please, due to Jihadi actions (stalking, Molestation, Rape, Kafir meat etc). In last 30 - 40 years girls/women have made lot of progress in education and other fields. Parents are spending lakhs of Rs on a girl child's education. They can pursue their interests in whatever fields they want (Engineering, Medical, Fashion etc)This progress is now under serious threat of being rolled back. Parents will start calculating if their daughter have extremely limited career opportunities due to persistent insecurity driven in large part beacuse of Islamist proclivity of targetting Kafir women, then will they expend similar time and resources on their daughter's education.

Who knows even Purdah(veil) system might make a comeback ?

Does Hindu society have any answers to these questions?

[member_27444]

Pardeh Mein Rehne Do Parda Na Uthao

Pardeh Mein Rehne Do Parda Na Uthao

Parda Jo Uth Gaya To Bhedh Khul Jayega

Allah Meri Tauba Allah Meri Tauba

Allah Meri Tauba Allah Meri Tauba


From (aptly named movie) Shikar

[kittoo]

The most far reaching implication of a fast rising islamic population and their even faster rising audacity will be felt by non muslim women including hindus. In large parts of India, they will not be able live, dress and move as they please, due to Jihadi actions (stalking, Molestation, Rape, Kafir meat etc). In last 30 - 40 years girls/women have made lot of progress in education and other fields. Parents are spending lakhs of Rs on a girl child's education. They can pursue their interests in whatever fields they want (Engineering, Medical, Fashion etc)This progress is now under serious threat of being rolled back. Parents will start calculating if their daughter have extremely limited career opportunities due to persistent insecurity driven in large part beacuse of Islamist proclivity of targetting Kafir women, then will they expend similar time and resources on their daughter's education.

Who knows even Purdah(veil) system might make a comeback ?

Does Hindu society have any answers to these questions?

So basically the history of medieval India being repeated, when all the open and free culture of Hindu society was sucked away because women folk were constantly on radars of Jehadis and hiding them, marrying them early and feeling they were a problem took root. As the saying goes- those who dont learn from history...

[harbans]

The UPA and MSM are trying best to show that Social Media is the root cause of the riots and trying to hide the fact that adminstrative communal partisanship in failing to bring molesters and murderers to book may have been the root cause of any retributive violence from the Jats

[RamaY]

The most far reaching implication of a fast rising islamic population and their even faster rising audacity will be felt by non muslim women including hindus. In large parts of India, they will not be able live, dress and move as they please, due to Jihadi actions (stalking, Molestation, Rape, Kafir meat etc). In last 30 - 40 years girls/women have made lot of progress in education and other fields. Parents are spending lakhs of Rs on a girl child's education. They can pursue their interests in whatever fields they want (Engineering, Medical, Fashion etc)This progress is now under serious threat of being rolled back. Parents will start calculating if their daughter have extremely limited career opportunities due to persistent insecurity driven in large part beacuse of Islamist proclivity of targetting Kafir women, then will they expend similar time and resources on their daughter's education.

Who knows even Purdah(veil) system might make a comeback ?

Does Hindu society have any answers to these questions?

Darshan garu,

Welcome to the club. We have been saying this for a long long time. Yet S.TN vadis (a.k.a Secular, Macaulite Dhimmis) still insist that all the ills of Bharat are to do with evil Yinduism only.

Our own Bji wrote wonderful set of posts on this topic. Please read the following thread when you have some time. Also forward it to as many people as you can...

How Islam Came To India ...

[arminius]

Media is way off the mark when it claims, that jats indulged in widespread violence. In fact jats never had chance to retaliate properly. Jats don't have access to automatic weapons. All they have licensed weapons or country made revolvers while downtrodden seculars have kalashnikovs at their disposal. As soon as jats realized what were they up against adminstration was in full swing. There is a genral despair among jats and they have realized that they have missed the train demographically and otherwise. Western UP is now for all practical purposes dar-ul-islam.
These riots were organized to break the will of a major community which was still somewhat militirastic. It is, as I see, downhill hereon. Another interesting development is slow increase in the population of seculars in Haryana. As of now it is limited to big towns.

[Sanku]

it seems after Army took over operations in Muzaffarabad, a crackdown on an SP apparatchik in Khala Par has yielded 5 AK-47s and 13 hand grenades. Also 4 Bangladeshi sharp shooters have been held from this house as well.

It seems, as if some JMB cadre are being given shelter by groups in UP.

Habal ji, any links I can share outside will be most welcome.

[darshhan]

Media is way off the mark when it claims, that jats indulged in widespread violence. In fact jats never had chance to retaliate properly. Jats don't have access to automatic weapons. All they have licensed weapons or country made revolvers while downtrodden seculars have kalashnikovs at their disposal. As soon as jats realized what were they up against adminstration was in full swing. There is a genral despair among jats and they have realized that they have missed the train demographically and otherwise. Western UP is now for all practical purposes dar-ul-islam.
These riots were organized to break the will of a major community which was still somewhat militirastic. It is, as I see, downhill hereon. Another interesting development is slow increase in the population of seculars in Haryana. As of now it is limited to big towns.

Even the licensed weapons of hindus are being cancelled and seized. What is the point of issuing a license if the govt will rescind it in times of need?

One thing I have observed in recent riots. The group which attacks first generally carries the day. Because by the time other group organises itself, administration would have have pretty much stepped in and the opposing group will never get a chance to retaliate.This is where Hindus are laggards. They do not believe in being proactive. Always in reactive mode.

Another thing I have seen is that Hindus seriously lack tactical sense. Case in point. Going to Mahapanchayat totally unprepared for islamic ambush. It is like they were going to a picnic. As I said earlier Hindus need to raise their game.

[habal]

having seen a few 'mahapanchayats' near dehli suburbs .. it's not 'like a picnic' .. it is a picnic .. for folks to saunter in and amble out.

Sanku, wait & watch if mai-baap sarkaar releases this info to media.

[vinod]

One thing I have observed in recent riots. The group which attacks first generally carries the day. Because by the time other group organises itself, administration would have have pretty much stepped in and the opposing group will never get a chance to retaliate.This is where Hindus are laggards. They do not believe in being proactive. Always in reactive mode.

wasn't it proactive in Godhra? And see the pressure still on after a decade? You can't blame Hindus for being laggards, if they are going to get hammered later on! Need to build a solid support group before anything is possible - for that political unity and media support is required. Till then, it will be all reactive!

[darshhan]

Not all is lost for Hindus in Western UP though. They do have some inherent strengths. In such situations their foremost advantage is that high percentage of Western UP Hindus serve in Indian Army/Paramilitary. As a result there are huge numbers of Ex servicemen in West UP with miltary training. Since most of them retire in their 30's, there is still a lot of fight left in them. They are practically present in every village. Naib Subedar Yogender Singh Yadav PVC belongs to this region. These Ex servicemen can be of great assistance in such situations.

Additionally Hindus of west UP are very well off economically. Funds or rather lack of it should not be an issue.

However unity of Western UP hindus leaves a lot to be desired. They are not a cohesive force. Here every major group (Jats, Gujjars, Tyagis, Yadavs, Brahmins, Dalits etc) has a strong sub identity and this sub identity often trumps the Larger Hindu identity. Lot of effort has to be made in order to make Hindus cohesive in the most minimal manner.

In words of Benjamin Franklin

"We must hang together, gentlemen...else, we shall most assuredly hang separately."

[brihaspati]

One thing I have observed in recent riots. The group which attacks first generally carries the day. Because by the time other group organises itself, administration would have have pretty much stepped in and the opposing group will never get a chance to retaliate.This is where Hindus are laggards. They do not believe in being proactive. Always in reactive mode.

No, if the group which attacked first are Muslims - then they carry the day. The reason is because the state will not step in to prevent the buildup and the attack itself if it is coming from Muslims. Every arms flow, foot-soldier movement is tracked by the undercover/sources of the local police. This gets collated with independent IB and other intel sources. Every Muslim attack is known by the admin and the state from before - but nothing is done because of political considerations from the top about potential electoral consequences and I suspect larger transnational and big-funding consequences. They step in only when they think there is going to be retaliation, which in turn will anger their Islamist patrons - not because they want to stop the attack. They calculatedly wait until non-Muslim reaction starts so that the retribution does not proceed. This is the explanation of the delay.

The fine tuning of the timing should tell you that the Indian state quietly observes and keeps a tab on things as they develop and has much more detailed knowledge than is pretended outside.

They are trying to disarm the non-Muslims in anticipation of larger and more consistent attacks by the Islamist networks in UP as part of a general combined strategy between the established pro-Islamist groups among Hindu politicians - to pre-empt a potential Hindu consolidation which they fear will go the BJP way.

The SP+Congress+BSP cannot stay on UP politics now unless the Islamist supports them. This is perhaps a real time modern social experiment we can closely observe to understand how the "north" actually fell to the Islamics in the first place.

Hindus have fallen back on the reactive mode because - any preparation they took as you suggest even going to the mahapanchayat - would be reported by the local intel and the state would have pounced on them from before, so that the mahapanchayat could be itself banned or postponed on law-and-order excuse. I think you are underestimating the people who called for the mahapanchayat. They had to take the risk, to show or at least try to show the other party as the aggressor - for they know that the entire Indian federal state structure and the local admins - babus+police-toffs+paramilitary when they are unleashed - will toe the Islamophile line currently simply put a face on now by Akhilesh, but is a common core of the well-entrenched network of traffickers of women and boys+drugs+arms+Islamists who span both the state and biz and politics of that zone - and that which also keeps the Congress/SP/BSP afloat.

You cannot fight a well organized modern state with full resources behind its coercive machinery which has decided to support Islamics in every possible way to gain territory and political power - in a face to face fight with arms. That is madness and strategically suicidal. Atrocity-> consolidation -> political cohesions -> provocation -> atrocity -> greater consolidation -> greater political cohesions -> provocation -> create the justifications that neutralizes and paralyzes world opinion otherwise supporting Islamists to ensure no outside interventiona nd support to the state in its pro-Islamic moves -> take on the source of power of Islamists that then has hijacked the state into doing its bidding and eliminate completely. If needed stones dug from the base of the foundation - figuratively - as a Sufi did in Kashmir for Hindu temples literally.

Why cannot you guys look lovingly at the Syrian freedom fighters and learn from them? look at how these innocent children started off!

[darshhan]

Hindus have fallen back on the reactive mode because - any preparation they took as you suggest even going to the mahapanchayat - would be reported by the local intel and the state would have pounced on them from before, so that the mahapanchayat could be itself banned or postponed on law-and-order excuse. I think you are underestimating the people who called for the mahapanchayat. They had to take the risk, to show or at least try to show the other party as the aggressor - for they know that the entire Indian federal state structure and the local admins - babus+police-toffs+paramilitary when they are unleashed - will toe the Islamophile line currently simply put a face on now by Akhilesh, but is a common core of the well-entrenched network of traffickers of women and boys+drugs+arms+Islamists who span both the state and biz and politics of that zone - and that which also keeps the Congress/SP/BSP afloat.

Brihaspati ji, Lack of cohesion, Opportunism, and extremely strong sub identities are reasons for the reactive mode. This is in addition to macaulized education. This will be true even if state is supporting Hindus completely.

You cannot fight a well organized modern state with full resources behind its coercive machinery which has decided to support Islamics in every possible way to gain territory and political power - in a face to face fight with arms. That is madness and strategically suicidal. Atrocity-> consolidation -> political cohesions -> provocation -> atrocity -> greater consolidation -> greater political cohesions -> provocation -> create the justifications that neutralizes and paralyzes world opinion otherwise supporting Islamists to ensure no outside interventiona nd support to the state in its pro-Islamic moves -> take on the source of power of Islamists that then has hijacked the state into doing its bidding and eliminate completely. If needed stones dug from the base of the foundation - figuratively - as a Sufi did in Kashmir for Hindu temples literally.

Why cannot you guys look lovingly at the Syrian freedom fighters and learn from them? look at how these innocent children started off!

I never said or implied that Hindus should start fighting against state and its instruments through the use of Arms. That is indeed madness. Infact coming to think of it even if someone distributes arms to Hindus, they wouldn't be very effective since the mindset and warrior spirit is simply not there. The dhimmification process of Hindus is almost complete. Atleast Syrian rebels have shown stamina by fighting Assad for more than one year. I do not think Hindus can replicate it. So I think there is a disconnect between What I am saying and what you are infering.

Having said that every Hindu has think for himself on how he is going to save his own and his family's life. What and how he chooses to defend himself with is his decision.

By the way what do you suggest? Any solutions.