India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Jan 2014 09:03

saip wrote:Even Canada puts India as hardship posting. I wonder what UK thinks.

Forget pansy diplomats, I recall the US Marines stationed in the US Embassy in Delhi having their own website and claiming it was a hardship posting where they had to fight poverty, heat, flies what-not as if they were made to live in some slum instead of the air conditioned Marines House. So much for their TFTAness

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 08 Jan 2014 09:08

If a country has no strip bars and lap dancers it is a hardship posting.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Jan 2014 09:10

US investigates Yemenis' charge that drone strike 'turned wedding into a funeral'

The Obama administration has launched an internal investigation into a Dec. 12 drone strike in Yemen that targeted an al Qaeda militant but which local villagers say ended up hitting a wedding party, killing 12 and injuring 14 others, U.S. officials tell NBC News.
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Baraa Shiban, a human rights activist who interviewed local villagers two days after the strike, said he saw no sign that Badani was anywhere near the village, noting that he was from another region of Yemen, and, as a “stranger” to the area, was unlikely to have been invited to a gathering celebrating the wedding between a groom and bride in two neighboring villages.

“There was clearly a wedding party,” said Shiban. He said he believes U.S. officials “may have been fed the wrong intel. They saw a group of people waiting in trucks for a convoy and they assumed they were militants, so the made the decision to strike.”

Shiban said he has compiled a list of the 12 men killed in the strike. They were shepherds and khat farmers, who ranged in age from 20 to 65, he said.

Al-Sane, the journalist who shot the video and also interviewed local villagers, acknowledged that the young men killed in the strike were carrying rifles. But he said this is not at all unusual for a wedding procession. “In an Arab wedding, it is a tradition for people to carry arms,” he said. “They shoot bullets in the air as a form of expression. That’s how they celebrate a wedding.”
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Another villager, Sheikh Salah Al-Taisy, is quoted as saying that there was no place to take cover.

“There was no way to run. It is a very remote area,” he said. “...We live in fear day and night. Our children and women cannot sleep.”

Nasser Al-Sane / Reprieve

A piece of one of the U.S. Hellfire missiles that villagers say hit the celebrants.

According to Shiban’s report, nine bodies were taken to the village of Radda for a mass burial. The photos and videos Shiban sent to Reprieve show a row of burned corpses lined up on the ground surrounded by local villagers, as well as a scorched truck purportedly destroyed in the attack. They also show villagers holding up a banner in Arabic saying, “America Spills the Blood,” as well as local residents playing with the remains of a Hellfire missile bearing the words “Warning -- two man lift” in English.

saip · Post by **saip** » 08 Jan 2014 09:22

CRamS wrote: The sheer presence of such large numbers of SDREs they have to be in the midst of turns them off .

Especially when they realize these SDREs are way above their IQ level.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 08 Jan 2014 09:22

ramana wrote:I think GOI stance is the arrest is illegal in the first place, so where for the plea bargain?

Ramanaji,
There are a few points I would like to mention:
1. In US to get a speedy trial, plea bargain is done. This is the rule not the exception. If you do not accept, and go for a jury trial, the book is thrown at you. I have seen people accepting a 10 year term because the alternative would have been a life term if convicted by a jury. In the case of Dr K, it is the question of keeping cool. This is easy to say than done. She had trouble with one strip search. If convicted and forced to do time even for a short time, she will go through the process everyday. Believe me, I could not stand being sentenced in prison, when I have spent 22 years there as staff. You can not blame her if she loses her nerve and accepts a guilty plea.
2. Unless very sure of being found innocent, lawyers will often recommend that accused go for plea and avoid the harsh sentence.
3. In BR I am hearing people say that Preet Bharwa is finished. How so? We under estimate him at our peril. He has his admirers. I just heard him speak about the Banks culpability in the ponzi scheme (JP Morgan and the Madof thing) on the NPR. He sounded very up beat.
4. US understands only one type of dand. That is Artha Dand. India should threaten to cancel large billion dollar contracts and see the reaction. On the other hand, I am worried about the loss of the the GE engines for he Tejas if we go that rout.
Gautam

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Jan 2014 09:24

Gates dings Obama's leadership, Biden's foreign policy chops

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In a new memoir, “Duty: Memoirs of a Secretary at War,” former Pentagon chief Robert Gates writes that Obama lacked commitment to the decisions he made about his strategy in Afghanistan, the New York Times reported Tuesday.

“As I sat there, I thought: The president doesn’t trust his commander, can’t stand Karzai, doesn’t believe in his own strategy and doesn’t consider the war to be his,” Gates writes in the new book. “For him, it’s all about getting out.”
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In an excerpt published in the Wall Street Journal, Gates wrote that Obama insisted the White House "tightly control every aspect of national security policy and even operations."

"His White House was by far the most centralized and controlling in national security of any I had seen since Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger ruled the roost," he wrote.

Gates' words for Vice President Joe Biden are even more harsh, the Times reported.

“I think he has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades,” Gates wrote of Biden, whom he also described as a “man of integrity.”
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While critical of Biden, Gates appears to favor former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The NYT writes that Gates has “especially high praise” for Clinton.

The Washington Post adds, however, that Gates says both Clinton and Obama admitted to basing their opposition to the 2007 "surge" in Iraq in part on political considerations.

"Hillary told the president that her opposition to the [2007] surge in Iraq had been political because she was facing him in the Iowa primary. . . . The president conceded vaguely that opposition to the Iraq surge had been political. To hear the two of them making these admissions, and in front of me, was as surprising as it was dismaying," Gates writes, according to the Post.
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rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 08 Jan 2014 09:27

Loss of GE 404, GE414IN and LM2500 which is used on IN capital ships.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jan 2014 09:28

CRamS wrote:On Modi, she repeated the same condescending crap. It was posted a while ago, I think in the NaMo thread.

If she was smart, she would have kept her mouth shut or did like Condi Rice if someone from the press was being annoying. Where the hell do these agencies get these people? Either they are incompetents or Ivy League charlatans.

saip · Post by **saip** » 08 Jan 2014 09:28

For whatever it is worth most of China is 30% hardship and most of India is 25% hardship. Only Hongkong is Zero. All of Pakistan is 25%. They must like Jayalalitha, Chennai is only 15%!

Link

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 08 Jan 2014 09:32

Altair wrote:If a country has no strip bars and lap dancers it is a hardship posting.

Yes, India does not offer the fun possibilities that are offered by Thailand and the Philippines. I will not elaborate further on this.
Gautam

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 08 Jan 2014 09:36

If the US thinks that they're gonna get away by sentencing a woman diplomat and by subjecting her to repeated cavity searches then let them live in a fools paradise. The US is testing us to know if after 20 years of strategic cooperation we have been emasculated enough to accept that US justice systems should apply to Indian diplomatic personnel who had full immunity. AFAIK DK is inside the UN building. If required we can hole her up inside the Indian consulate for life. I am sure no US pandu wants to enter that building. That would be declaring war. So just tell the americans to STFU. And no, DK going AWOL is not an option for a country like India. The US has to drop charges. Period. No plea bargain. No AWOL.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2014 09:44

Altair wrote:If a country has no strip bars and lap dancers it is a hardship posting.

we can arrange that in dharavi...

sorry for digression.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Jan 2014 09:45

India doesn't need to cancel existing contracts, only future ones.

1. First, close the American school, and revoke visas of all teachers in there.
2. Whoever is the head of commisary , arrest him for tax violations for selling liquor without license and not paying any tax
3. All other American staff other than the 16 who were allowed tax-exempt status should be arrested pending payment of taxes.
4. Pull up records of all current and previous US consular officers/staff in their school who has not paid taxes legally, and send a bill to US embassy for that amount along with penalty. Sieze vehicles/personal assets of any officers with no immunity pending clearance of amount.
5. Sign deal with Israel for spike missiles. Send out message that Javelin was rejected due to Devyani episode.
6. Put the Chinook and Apache agreements on hold pending resolution of Devyani episode to India's satisfaction
7. Announce that US arms firms will not be granted any contract going forward other than ones already done
8. Cancel all joint exercises with US.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Jan 2014 09:48

We are all focused on what is going on in the US. I think that angle has been explored in detail and has not yielded the expected results.

Sometimes offense is the best defense and that should begin now by filing charges and arresting some US diplomats in India who have broken the local law here. Now that US has arrested a diplomat on full immunity at the time of her arrest, as understood by India, we should arrest a US diplomat who has full immunity from the US embassy.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jan 2014 09:48

g.sarkar wrote: There are a few points I would like to mention:
1. In US to get a speedy trial, plea bargain is done. This is the rule not the exception. If you do not accept, and go for a jury trial, the book is thrown at you. I have seen people accepting a 10 year term because the alternative would have been a life term if convicted by a jury. In the case of Dr K, it is the question of keeping cool. This is easy to say than done. She had trouble with one strip search. If convicted and forced to do time even for a short time, she will go through the process everyday. Believe me, I could not stand being sentenced in prison, when I have spent 22 years there as staff. You can not blame her if she loses her nerve and accepts a guilty plea.
2. Unless very sure of being found innocent, lawyers will often recommend that accused go for plea and avoid the harsh sentence.
3. In BR I am hearing people say that Preet Bharwa is finished. How so? We under estimate him at our peril. He has his admirers. I just heard him speak about the Banks culpability in the ponzi scheme (JP Morgan and the Madof thing) on the NPR. He sounded very up beat.
4. US understands only one type of dand. That is Artha Dand. India should threaten to cancel large billion dollar contracts and see the reaction. On the other hand, I am worried about the loss of the the GE engines for he Tejas if we go that rout.
Gautam

The prosecution is going to try to force the judge to view the case very narrowly. That is strictly as perjury and visa fraud and not allow the defense to discuss the entire agreement between SR, DK, and GoI and terms of employment. In reality it is really not a criminal case and worst a civil case of contract violation or contract interpretation. It isn't clear as to what approach DK's attorneys are taking. People forget that DK's passport is issued by the GoI and they probably have already issued another one since the first was stolen by the US DoJ. She can easily leave the US at any time, but GoI will lose the bail money of $250K put up and she will be declared PNG.

No one is going to cancel large contracts over this. This is a case where the US government screwed up and not private businesses.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 08 Jan 2014 09:49

I suggest we haul some of Foggy Bottom's finest out to Tihar and get in some hijras to do "cavity search". Plausible deniability and post facto rule of law can then be applied. We can then all do "the law will follow its own course" song and dance.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2014 09:50

I don't see "strip and cavity search" in putnanja's list!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jan 2014 09:53

GSarkar, I know the system.
Yes Preet Bharara is a rising star of the US Justice system and will go places. No doubt about it. People forget he is not NY employee but Justice Dept so its all DC from SD to JD.

Right now it looks like GOI has not cast its full weight and is letting MEA carry the fight.

As for Root Cause and Corrective Action we can talk about India as in US there are too many hidden players.
And am working on it.

AmberG and matrimc glad its all OK.

Folks we dont know how far the mess is supported in US. Give it more time.

In 1992 it looked like it was supported all the way by WH. Turns out it was the ASS making and ass of herself.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Jan 2014 09:55

putnanja wrote:India doesn't need to cancel existing contracts, only future ones.

1. First, close the American school, and revoke visas of all teachers in there.
2. Whoever is the head of commisary , arrest him for tax violations for selling liquor without license and not paying any tax
3. All other American staff other than the 16 who were allowed tax-exempt status should be arrested pending payment of taxes.
4. Pull up records of all current and previous US consular officers/staff in their school who has not paid taxes legally, and send a bill to US embassy for that amount along with penalty. Sieze vehicles/personal assets of any officers with no immunity pending clearance of amount.
5. Sign deal with Israel for spike missiles. Send out message that Javelin was rejected due to Devyani episode.
6. Put the Chinook and Apache agreements on hold pending resolution of Devyani episode to India's satisfaction
7. Announce that US arms firms will not be granted any contract going forward other than ones already done
8. Cancel all joint exercises with US.

5,6,7,8 should not be announced rather all deals should be put through the babudom grinder. Deals that do not benefit India will be rejected as a matter of course just like in the MMRCA case. That will send send the appropriate message. No use cutting the nose to spite the face. This is a diplomatic dispute and let it remain in that domain as far as India is concerned. There is enough mischief done by the US diplomats in India to cover for DK, Kritikka, Dayal and one other diplomats treatment at the hands of uncle sam.

If the US chooses to cancel or delay any military hardware let them. That will ensure that their access to the Indian defense market will go down to zero for the next 20-30 years. They will reinforce the "unreliable" tag.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Jan 2014 10:02

SaiK wrote:I don't see "strip and cavity search" in putnanja's list!

We don't need to stoop to US level. However, US understands the value of money. Cancel/Put on hold some big contracts, especially defence, and the lobbyists for those companies and the congress/senators of that state will start putting pressure on WH/SD.

Otherwise, just reverting to reciprocity for US diplomats won't make them do anything. They are wily enough to just get free booze from their UK/European diplomats.

Now, shut down the school, and that will really hurt them. Where will they put their children for study? Families will need to be separated to ensure that children's studies is not interrupted in India, else they will need to spend big money to send their kids to "International schools". Anyway, US doesn't offer that kind of benefit to any country, why should India? That will be hitting them where it really hurts.

Closing the American club was one other good move. Now, close the American center. Why should India pay for security for a center which is involved in US propaganda and psy-warfare? what is the benefit of American center to Indians?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 08 Jan 2014 10:04

SaiK wrote:I don't see "strip and cavity search" in putnanja's list!

Yeah, and he forgot the dilli police red chili pepper in the rectum technique.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2014 10:14

shutting down schools is as good as telling everyone who has kids to leave India.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Jan 2014 10:16

SaiK wrote:shutting down schools is as good as telling everyone who has kids to leave India.

Enroll in local schools .. That's what Indian diplomats do when abroad no?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Jan 2014 10:20

putnanja wrote:Where will they put their children for study?

In Mumbai they can always fall back to the school run by who is that lady from Gujarat Teesta Setalwad? Sabrang or some such where they teach "1984"esque geography of Indian subcontinent where Pakistan is twice the size of India.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jan 2014 10:21

sure.. I am cool with that.. they will get to learn how to sing Indian national anthem too.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Jan 2014 10:22

SaiK wrote:shutting down schools is as good as telling everyone who has kids to leave India.

How many countries have their own schools in their embassies in Washington DC?

This is not 1973. There are quite a few good schools in India, especially Delhi. If they want, let them send their kids to those schools, else let them leave India. No loss. US will send some people without kids to India.

BTW, they have schools only in Chennai and New Delhi. where do those based in Mumbai, Kolkata and Hyderabad send their kids to?

Too much of a hassle regarding those schools. you need to provide it extra security, waive off tax for the staff. Why take that hit?

BTW, there was a report earlier in Economic times that Diplomats and NRIs shouldn't get subsidized LPG cylinders. Implement it pronto for US embassy and consulates. Why should they pay the subsidized rates meant for poor?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Jan 2014 10:23

matrimc wrote:Sahamat or some such where they teach "1984" geography of Pakistan being twice the size of India.

That's Sabrang, isn't it ?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Jan 2014 10:27

Devyani Khobragade: India orders closure of US embassy club for selling duty-free liquor on the sly

New Delhi: In an order conveying its strong displeasure, the Indian government has taken a step towards shutting down the club of American Community Support Association (ACSA) , popularly known as American Club in New Delhi, as part of measures to put pressure on the US in the Devyani Khobragade case.

Ministry of External Affairs officials said, duty-free liquor from the club was being sold on the sly by Americans, which was a violation of Indian customs and excise laws.

ACSA has a restaurant, a swimming pool, a soccer field besides a host of facilities which are used by American diplomats and US nationals in India.

It also has a tennis court the membership which is a privilege for few. To become a member, one has to be recommended by a US diplomat in India.

It is a second home to the American expatriate community in New Delhi.

Diplomatic note verbales have been sent by the Ministry of External Affairs ( MEA) to the US embassy asking US diplomats to shut down the club and stop sale of duty-free liquor immediately.

MEA officials said, the US commissary is making profits by selling duty-free liquor and other items to diplomats from other countries, in violation of customs and excise laws.

The US commissary sells duty-free liuor, wine and exotic foreign goods at cheap rates, without paying customs duty, to Western diplomats.

The American Club is located near Gate E of the huge US embassy compound.

It runs several restaurants named Delhi Diner Snack Bar, The Great Escape Bar, Windward Cafe Poolside bar, and Out of India restaurant.

Meanwhile, in New York, the US is yet to grant the G1 visa to Khobragade. According to reports a deadline of 10 days will be given to the US which will also mean that it now has to decide if it will issue a G1 visa giving immunity to Khobragade or face more Indian action to bring diplomatic protocol strictly at par with other countries.

So the stage has been set for the arrest. Didn't the US just preach to us you break local law you get arrested, handcuffed and strip searched?

It should force the closure of this Gate E to ensure that its orders are complied with. In accordance of strict reciprocity if the Indian embassy has one gate all gates barring one of the Us embassy should be sealed.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 08 Jan 2014 10:29

SSridhar wrote:
matrimc wrote:Sahamat or some such where they teach "1984" geography of Pakistan being twice the size of India.
That's Sabrang, isn't it ?

Yes thanks. correcting OP.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Jan 2014 10:36

pankajs wrote:Devyani Khobragade: India orders closure of US embassy club for selling duty-free liquor on the sly
. . . According to reports a deadline of 10 days will be given to the US which will also mean that it now has to decide if it will issue a G1 visa giving immunity to Khobragade or face more Indian action to bring diplomatic protocol strictly at par with other countries.

10 days from when ?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Jan 2014 10:40

Devyani Khobragade case: US embassy asked to stop commercial activities, their cars will have to follow traffic rules

India today stepped up its diplomatic offensive against the US, asking its embassy in New Delhi to stop all commercial activities on its premises by January 16.

The embassy has been told to shut down a club within their premises which includes a pool, restaurant and tennis court. The club, used by American diplomats and nationals in India, should not be open to outsiders under the Vienna Convention, but it is.

All US embassy and diplomatic cars will also be subjected to local traffic regulations, officials have said.

This comes on top of a slew of retaliatory measures taken by India to mount pressure on the US to drop charges against its senior diplomat Devyani Khobragade, who was arrested in New York last month for alleged visa fraud and subjected to a humiliating strip search.

US diplomats in consulates across India were ordered to give back identity cards that came with special privileges. American diplomats were also stripped off airport passes and import clearances. Barricades outside the sprawling US embassy in the capital were also removed.

India has sought an apology and asked the US to withdraw the charges against the 39-year-old diplomat.

Indian Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh on Monday reportedly told US Ambassador Nancy Powell that it cannot be "business as usual" between the two sides till the issue is resolved.

Ms Khobragade was transferred to India's Permanent Mission to the UN, but she is yet to receive a clearance from the US that would pave the way for full diplomatic immunity.

The IFS officer was arrested on charges of lying on the visa application for her maid Sangeeta Richard, and paying her far less wages than what was agreed upon.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 08 Jan 2014 10:44

[quote="pankajs"]Devyani Khobragade: India orders closure of US embassy club for selling duty-free liquor on the sly[quote]
This is actually good for the US diplomats. They will have time to spend with the natives instead to getting high on cheap alcohol.
Gautam

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Jan 2014 10:45

SSridhar wrote:[>>quote="pankajs"]Devyani Khobragade: India orders closure of US embassy club for selling duty-free liquor on the sly
. . . According to reports a deadline of 10 days will be given to the US which will also mean that it now has to decide if it will issue a G1 visa giving immunity to Khobragade or face more Indian action to bring diplomatic protocol strictly at par with other countries.[/quote<<]
10 days from when ?

This was reported in mail today as

The note verbale says that the US is violating diplomatic protocol by running a beauty salon, restaurant and other facilities, and should be shut within 10 days.

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/devy ... 34981.html

So close all such facilities by 16th Jan. The date is not directly for the G1.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 08 Jan 2014 10:51

Looks like we are mixing issues here. Economy and trade , cultural and political relations can go on without much worry if we keep to transactional level. Diplomatic relations are ll about how much reciprocal relations we enjoy in each others company. The channel of communication is diplomacy which keeps the relationships going one. By arresting and subjecting one Indian diplomat with consular immunity as well as diplomatic immunity at the time of arrest US has risked this channel of communication getting clogged. So what happens, we get back to 1971 level. SO be it.

However, if one can not respect diplomats of other country in your country you cant expect your diplomat be respected. That is the essence of Vienna convention for diplomatic and consular relations. It is not about local laws par se. If this case even goes to indictment Indian hand would be forced and enough mud can be raked up against someone from US Embassy.Rest assured.

Unlike MUTUs , we are not worried about Nisha , Preet or other assorted MUTUs populating the social media and spilling over here as well. Neither are we talking about Dk the individual. It is the DK , the Diplomat who is representing India in a foreign country that is what concerns us and the treatment meted out to her.

US does not have three or four options as made out in some paper.It has only one option in any scenario, i.e. , apologise and drop charges and respect Vienna convention. Period.

As regards Indian response , which is being termed as robust by some, is not a response at all. Indian option is still open. All actions are what US personnel enjoyed on non reciprocal basis and should have been revoked long back. They can not claim these privileges are their right. I blame Indian VIP culture for this but that is our problem to deal with it. If revoked, they should get used to do things in Lawful manner as well or be ready to see if VCCR hold true for them or if Indian Thulla SOP is bearable.

I don't expect Congi Govt to do much except symbolic reactions. Even these would be resented and not leave much choice to next govt which is not going to be Congi one.

On another note, DK would have asked for extension of Indictment date on advice of MEA so as to give chance to Back Channel Diplomacy.

As regards fact of the case, it seems they are pretty established and no case is made out. DK is innocent and SR is Green Card chaser followed by Maid Chasers in NYC. by any stretch of imagination SR was paid much more than what was agreed upon and above Minimum wages prevalent.

DK did claim immunity at the time of arrest . Her pleas were ignored by DSS agent and NYPD. DSS agent Mark Moron Smith(MMS) did mention in his brief charge summary that he consulted some State Dept Employee and ascertained that She had consular immunity which does not extend to criminality involved in the case. That is they were aware of the requirement of ascertaining diplomatic immunity before proceeding further. It is their fault that they did not ascertain if she had full diplomatic immunity on the date of charging her and arresting her. On this error of fact case would be thrown out. But we are not interested in US legal wrangles . Email exchanges , recently made public, indicates that USD was fully aware and in the know of things. It is for USD to sort it out as per our satisfaction or be sorted out.

PB and his office is guilty of illegally trafficking people out of India and are liable to be charged in India. The officer who helped them from US embassy would also be charged as well as the travel agent. Lets see if Congis have guts to proceed further.

If there are tax evasion charges or other fraud cases against US embassy personnel having consular immunity or no immunity should be proceeded separately.

Reciprocal arrangements for extending benefits on mutual basis should be worked out if feasible, at a later date to avoid such issues.

US Embassy should not be allowed exotic designations such as those held by Zia. Personnel should be employed on 1:1 basis. And they should be subjected to full security check at Airports on reciprocal basis.

It is surprising that two bit MUTUs could hold India US relations to ransom. That is inexplicable to me. It seems clear that US does not want warm relations and feeling of likeness to US people that generally pervade in India and Indians to get to the level of Strategic relations. Else this course of action among friendly nations is inexplicable. Hence, my suspicion of something underlying the whole issue which is not yet visible to us.

habal · Post by **habal** » 08 Jan 2014 10:54

As far as I read the American system, nothing we do with DoS will affect relations with DoD. So all trade relations and defence relations will remain unaffected by any spat or retaliatory action against DoS employees in India irrespective of assertions or fulminations to the contrary by americans elsewhere and on this forum. If Obama intervenes on DoS behalf, even that at most will be a temporary blip for nothing can and should come in the way of full-scale militarization.

If military deals are also affected in the remotest case, then that would also be the biggest blessing in disguise. Better now, than later when we are neck deep as a user of their multifarious military hardware both in service and in the pipeline.

Reciprocity, most probably will begin on Jan 13, and if by that time US does nothing concrete to resolve the issue, then message will go out that they are looking for a fight. And by all accounts, they should be provided with one.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 08 Jan 2014 11:04

Reciprocal response to an Indian diplomat being arrested, handcuffed, strip searched and cavity searched is to arrest, handcuff, strip-search and cavity search an American diplomat in India. No more no less. Lets not bring in other issues into this at this point of time.

Of course the non-reciprocal privileges enjoyed by US diplomats in India should be eliminated.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 08 Jan 2014 11:07

"US does not have three or four options as made out in some paper.It has only one option in any scenario, i.e. , apologise and drop charges and respect Vienna convention. Period."
Chaanakyaji, I am afraid US is not going to apologize and drop charges. First of all that does not go with its history/tradition. Secondly, Obama is a weak president and will not be able to face the consequence of that action. So, India will have to take some action to protect Dr. K. But with a lame duck PM MMS that is remote. On the other hand, I can not see Dr. K being completely abandoned at the US mercy. Her being a Dalit was brought up immediately in the parliament and Congress in the election period can not afford to go there. So, we are in a period of interesting times.
Gautam

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 08 Jan 2014 11:08

Following on from the latest GOI directives to cease operation of schools and cafes, I hope the GOI is looking into the possibility of US mounting a Tony Mendez type operation for key officers.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 08 Jan 2014 11:24

^^^Nothing will hurt US interests more if they actually did this. It would only mean that US diplomutts are/were guilty and they saw the Indian threat as a clear and present danger and had to take action. They may be able to extradite US diplomutts but would lose the psychological battle.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 08 Jan 2014 11:26

g.sarkar wrote:"US does not have three or four options as made out in some paper.It has only one option in any scenario, i.e. , apologise and drop charges and respect Vienna convention. Period."
Chaanakyaji, I am afraid US is not going to apologize and drop charges. First of all that does not go with its history/tradition. Secondly, Obama is a weak president and will not be able to face the consequence of that action. So, India will have to take some action to protect Dr. K. But with a lame duck PM MMS that is remote. On the other hand, I can not see Dr. K being completely abandoned at the US mercy. Her being a Dalit was brought up immediately in the parliament and Congress in the election period can not afford to go there. So, we are in a period of interesting times.
Gautam

So what about arresting some US consular lady officer in India?? Will US call for Drone strike?? How History informs us in these matters?