Discussion on Indian Special Forces

ksmahesh · Post by **ksmahesh** » 04 Mar 2009 16:21

somnath wrote:^^^ ok, so its 72 hours..thats understandable..You might want to change one of your earlier posts, where you said 72 days..

Very clearly common sense is not common......

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Mar 2009 16:39

RayC wrote:
Rahul M wrote:they carry food for 3 days, they can stay much longer.
How?

Also one must understand that ammunition is based on one operation!

I would also like to mention that 'living off the land' is easier said than done.

In a semi urban area, where are they to find fruits, berries or edible stuff unless of course they will resort to stealing and looting, which will only alienate the people.

The Para Bde does not operate in isolation unless there is special operation in a 'friendly force' environment!

The airborne troops once the establish themselves including securing an airfield, the follow up forces could be air transported troops!

don't shoot the messenger !

this is what I got from interviews etc. while they didn't mention exact durations, the impression one got was that they could manage much longer than 3 days by living off the land.

valid points about ammo but my point wasn't that they could fight for many days w/o re-supply, but that they could stay.

again very practical points about living off the land in semi-urban environment. no argument against that.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 04 Mar 2009 16:45

Rahul,

I asked since I thought some new stuff could have been implemented and so I asked.

Trilangaswami went without food and water for a month or so I was told when the British imprisoned him for walking nude as a Swami would in those days! But that is the exception.

Food is not the main issue in a paradrop. Ammunition is the factor that decides the staying power.

I was replying to not only your post, but others too.

Since quotes are limited, it is not possible to do multiple quotes as it is feasible in some other fora.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Mar 2009 17:07

what amount of ammo would a Para SF soldier normally carry ?
I felt the many days comment was made in the context of a small SF team surviving off the land on their way to the target, avoiding enemy contact on the way.(and thus preserving ammo)

just curious, I suppose in your time too you must have been involved in operations that could not have had full fledged cooking facilities and must have depended on pre-cooked/dry food.
what might these have been ?
Do today's soldiers get better food ? perhaps with improvements in tech they may be able to carry food/food supplements that last more than three days but weigh as much the older stuff ?

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 04 Mar 2009 21:23

Rahul M wrote:what amount of ammo would a Para SF soldier normally carry ?
I felt the many days comment was made in the context of a small SF team surviving off the land on their way to the target, avoiding enemy contact on the way.(and thus preserving ammo)

just curious, I suppose in your time too you must have been involved in operations that could not have had full fledged cooking facilities and must have depended on pre-cooked/dry food.
what might these have been ?
Do today's soldiers get better food ? perhaps with improvements in tech they may be able to carry food/food supplements that last more than three days but weigh as much the older stuff ?

The SF must not be taken to be supermen. They continue to be soldiers and better skilled in certain areas of operations than the average. As far as my memory goes, the first line scale is the same.

SF alone does not avoid the enemy which are not material to the task. All do so. Battle procedures and battle drills take care of that.

The SF would normally use HAHO, HALO or Ram Air parachute for air insertion ad thus would anyway not expend ammunition and bypass the enemy who maybe in between the DZ and the objective.

As far as food is concerned, we have haversack food which is cooked at the base, then there is compo rations and then there is the sakarpara (or survival rations). This is for one days march or three days. The difference is the quantity of cooked food. Is that palatable? We get used to eating cold parothas and such like. I prefered to go hungry and would instead carry chana and gur and bombil (dry Bombay
duck - a fvourite of my troops) with a bottle of hydrogenated oil.

Even our Officers Mess cook seem to have come out from Mars. Their skill and the ration quality has made many an officer capable of going without food at least once a day i.e. dinner since it is awful. Maybe because of this inadvertent training, officers can go without food longer than the 72 hours parameter.

The calorific value and the scale is good. However, because of the low rates, usually the stuff is junk and much of it is wasted since it has to be peeled off. A Lady Professor from PAU, commissioned during Gen Vaidya's time, had given an excellent summary on the IA rations and the calorific intake. The cooks are total freaks who were possibly barbers, but got enrolled as cooks. There is the Catering School that teaches them, but when they come to the unit, they are as good as cobblers on loose. The Indian Navy Chefs are real good and I had to visit INS Hamla on an official visit.

There has been no such food technology advancement (to the best of my knowledge) wherein more food can be carried with the weight having been brought down. The only thing that has been done is that instead of the WW II Compo ration, it has been Indianised.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 04 Mar 2009 21:32

The cooks are total freaks who were possibly barbers, but got enrolled as cooks. There is the Catering School that teaches them, but when they come to the unit, they are as good as cobblers on loose.

I know its hard on the soldiers but that description is hilarious !

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 04 Mar 2009 22:20

What is the rationale behind this?

ITBP to guard Ajmal

Mumbai: Personnel of the elite Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) will guard the arrested terrorist Mohammad Ajmal Amir ‘Kasab’ in the high-security Arthur Road jail round-the-clock, a senior Crime Branch official said here on Tuesday.

“The ITBP personnel will take charge of guarding Kasab very soon. The Mumbai police have sent a requisition to the State government which forwarded it to the Central government. The Central government has accepted it,” Joint Police Commissioner Rakesh Maria said.

“In our request, which was sent two weeks ago, we mentioned the names of two or three paramilitary forces with commandos, including the ITBP. The ITBP was approved for the job,” Mr. Maria said.

“They will guard Kasab round-the-clock till his trial is over.”

Ajmal Amir is the lone terrorist arrested after the attack on Mumbai on November 26 last.

He has not been produced in court on any of the scheduled dates due to security concerns and is kept isolated from other prisoners in the jail as well. — PTI

Wikipedia tells me "The ITBP is trained in mountaineering, disaster management, and nuclear, biological and chemical disasters." Never seen 'guarding piglets' as a part of job description for ITBP et al. Why not use a specialised security force like CISF instead?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Mar 2009 08:41

ITBP (may not be all units) are trained in such things. In fact even during IG's time, they were part of her security detail and were responsible for nabbing Satwant and Beant Singh after they gunned her down.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Mar 2009 08:42

RayC wrote:Their skill and the ration quality has made many an officer capable of going without food at least once a day i.e. dinner since it is awful. Maybe because of this inadvertent training, officers can go without food longer than the 72 hours parameter.

Invaluable on-the-job survival training IA style!

kaangeya · Post by **kaangeya** » 05 Mar 2009 09:06

The calorific value and the scale is good. However, because of the low rates, usually the stuff is junk and much of it is wasted since it has to be peeled off. A Lady Professor from PAU, commissioned during Gen Vaidya's time, had given an excellent summary on the IA rations and the calorific intake. The cooks are total freaks who were possibly barbers, but got enrolled as cooks. There is the Catering School that teaches them, but when they come to the unit, they are as good as cobblers on loose. The Indian Navy Chefs are real good and I had to visit INS Hamla on an official visit.

The IN serves outstanding food. The IAF doesn't rise to great heights but neither does it sink. The iA swings wildly. I remember a passout I attended at OTA many years back (Lt.Gen.Ravi Iype presided) where at the reception they served curry puffs (not bad), pastries (OK), and coffee (that's a polite term for bilge in small cups). The place was crawling with military/naval/air attaches (Gp.Capt. Farhat, PAF, for instance) and none of them seemed to mind the coffee! Practice!

k prasad · Post by **k prasad** » 05 Mar 2009 09:53

kaangeya wrote:
The calorific value and the scale is good. However, because of the low rates, usually the stuff is junk and much of it is wasted since it has to be peeled off. A Lady Professor from PAU, commissioned during Gen Vaidya's time, had given an excellent summary on the IA rations and the calorific intake. The cooks are total freaks who were possibly barbers, but got enrolled as cooks. There is the Catering School that teaches them, but when they come to the unit, they are as good as cobblers on loose. The Indian Navy Chefs are real good and I had to visit INS Hamla on an official visit.
The IN serves outstanding food. The IAF doesn't rise to great heights but neither does it sink. The iA swings wildly. I remember a passout I attended at OTA many years back (Lt.Gen.Ravi Iype presided) where at the reception they served curry puffs (not bad), pastries (OK), and coffee (that's a polite term for bilge in small cups). The place was crawling with military/naval/air attaches (Gp.Capt. Farhat, PAF, for instance) and none of them seemed to mind the coffee! Practice!

I'm not so sure about Navy either.... from what I do know, ship food after a week out at sea would make most seamen prefer shipwreck - you wouldn't imagine the way they torture food - anybody who's eater Naval mess Stuffed apples will know, and then, I guess there is a certain time limit before people start disliking (to use a mild word) potatoes.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 05 Mar 2009 15:04

kaangeya wrote:
The calorific value and the scale is good. However, because of the low rates, usually the stuff is junk and much of it is wasted since it has to be peeled off. A Lady Professor from PAU, commissioned during Gen Vaidya's time, had given an excellent summary on the IA rations and the calorific intake. The cooks are total freaks who were possibly barbers, but got enrolled as cooks. There is the Catering School that teaches them, but when they come to the unit, they are as good as cobblers on loose. The Indian Navy Chefs are real good and I had to visit INS Hamla on an official visit.
The IN serves outstanding food. The IAF doesn't rise to great heights but neither does it sink. The iA swings wildly. I remember a passout I attended at OTA many years back (Lt.Gen.Ravi Iype presided) where at the reception they served curry puffs (not bad), pastries (OK), and coffee (that's a polite term for bilge in small cups). The place was crawling with military/naval/air attaches (Gp.Capt. Farhat, PAF, for instance) and none of them seemed to mind the coffee! Practice!

NDA, IMA and OTA Dinner Nights are totally a different commentary.

The cooks there are trained and the scale of ration much higher than the Forces since the calorific intake required of cadets is much higher than that of others.

These are prestigious organisations.

Prasad,

Tell the navy guys to join the Army and see how they run!

They won't requires the farmer's wife to cut off their tails - as the nursery rhyme goes!

They would then love to be man Friday to Robinson Crusoe!

As youngsters in the Army, we used to fish for invitation to a meal at our married officers house. I enjoyed eating at Maj Gavand's house with his Maharastrian masala food! I still salivate thinking of the food. He still sends me the Maharastrian masala! Heavenly!

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 05 Mar 2009 15:42

Interesting, probably because:

a) ITBP personnel being outsiders are beyond influence and hence trustworthy
b) They are reputed for physical fitness and have the 'commando' image
c) High threat requries heavily armed guard

The himveers have been previously sent to Sri Lanka to guard the mission and nowadays to Afghanistan - sign of good professional reputation.

Dmurphy wrote:What is the rationale behind this?

ITBP to guard Ajmal
Mumbai: Personnel of the elite Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) will guard the arrested terrorist Mohammad Ajmal Amir ‘Kasab’ in the high-security Arthur Road jail round-the-clock, a senior Crime Branch official said here on Tuesday.

“The ITBP personnel will take charge of guarding Kasab very soon. The Mumbai police have sent a requisition to the State government which forwarded it to the Central government. The Central government has accepted it,” Joint Police Commissioner Rakesh Maria said.

“In our request, which was sent two weeks ago, we mentioned the names of two or three paramilitary forces with commandos, including the ITBP. The ITBP was approved for the job,” Mr. Maria said.

“They will guard Kasab round-the-clock till his trial is over.”

Ajmal Amir is the lone terrorist arrested after the attack on Mumbai on November 26 last.

He has not been produced in court on any of the scheduled dates due to security concerns and is kept isolated from other prisoners in the jail as well. — PTI
Wikipedia tells me "The ITBP is trained in mountaineering, disaster management, and nuclear, biological and chemical disasters." Never seen 'guarding piglets' as a part of job description for ITBP et al. Why not use a specialised security force like CISF instead?

vishal · Post by **vishal** » 05 Mar 2009 18:52

Aditya G wrote:Interesting, probably because:

a) ITBP personnel being outsiders are beyond influence and hence trustworthy
b) They are reputed for physical fitness and have the 'commando' image
c) High threat requries heavily armed guard

The himveers have been previously sent to Sri Lanka to guard the mission and nowadays to Afghanistan - sign of good professional reputation.

[/quote]

Almost 10 years ago I had to 'escort' TN Seshan to a function. So I went to meet the great man in the Circuit House in pUne opposite the RSI. The place was awash with ITBP jawans and to this day I am yet to come across a more fearsome looking and business-like set of people. I was a student back then and walking into a building guarded by rough looking men toting AK-47 assault rifles was umm..., a novel experience for me. I tried not to look too hard at them but they were everywhere. On the terrace, in the garden, hallways..... The bodyguard detail radiated deterrence and if appearences alone could keep a person safe then TN Seshan was surely the safest man in India at that time.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 05 Mar 2009 21:56

In the 1971 War, the ITBP guarded our Jeep H.

I didn't think much of them and was more concerned of their safety.

I was proved wrong. There could not have been more fine troops than the ITBP.

It was a privilege and honour to have them by our side!

KiranM · Post by **KiranM** » 05 Mar 2009 23:14

RayC wrote:In the 1971 War, the ITBP guarded our Jeep H.

I didn't think much of them and was more concerned of their safety.

I was proved wrong. There could not have been more fine troops than the ITBP.

It was a privilege and honour to have them by our side!

Hello Sir, can you talk (if possible to do so) about what specifically they did to change your mind about them? Just curious..

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 05 Mar 2009 23:20

KiranM wrote:
RayC wrote:In the 1971 War, the ITBP guarded our Jeep H.

I didn't think much of them and was more concerned of their safety.

I was proved wrong. There could not have been more fine troops than the ITBP.

It was a privilege and honour to have them by our side!
Hello Sir, can you talk (if possible to do so) about what specifically they did to change your mind about them? Just curious..

They were below my post at the Jeep H and they could have been attacked and they were only a section. There was hardly any fortification there. They hung around without grouse and they did a great job, even though the enemy tried to infiltrate. Our worry was that the enemy was trying hard to infiltrate and they did attack one of our isolated section post and they failed and so since ITBP was not the Army, our worries were more. They did not belie our faith in them!

Dmurphy · Post by **Dmurphy** » 05 Mar 2009 23:36

RayC wrote:They were below my post at the Jeep H and they could have been attacked and they were only a section. There was hardly any fortification there. They hung around without grouse and they did a great job, even though the enemy tried to infiltrate. Our worry was that the enemy was trying hard to infiltrate and they did attack one of our isolated section post and they failed and so since ITBP was not the Army, our worries were more. They did not belie our faith in them!

Now now...we don't mind listening to more such anecdotes at all! Could you perhaps share some instances of bravery/battle during your tenure. Reading then will surely give me some goose bumps.

They hung around without grouse and they did a great job, even though the enemy tried to infiltrate.

And that would explain why they want the ITBP to guard the piggy.

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 10 Mar 2009 11:44

Here's some news about weapons upgrades and acquisitions for the NSG after the Mumbai attacks.

NSG learns from 26/11, to upgrade its firepower

Apart from the oft talked about gun mounted night vision/image intensifier devices, body worn mikes and cameras, there is also talk of acquiring x-ray viewing devices and mini ROV's (maybe like Daksh by DRDO). They also want a laser based audio monitoring system - I thought we already have that, since it's been a mainstream surveillance tool for a long time now. There is one interesting snippet at the end of the article.

As for the light support weapons, the NSG is scouting for 5.56mm x 45mm and 7.62mm x 51mm weapons having a minimum effective range of 1,000 metres and minimum recoil. "Simply put, we want light guns that can incapacitate a person at a distance of 1,000 metres," the official added.

This is pretty much a sniper rifle specification. NSG already has the HK PSG-1, often termed as the urban sniper rifle with an effective range of 800m. Guess they want more standoff distance, but how will that help/matter in a urban environment like the Mumbai ops?

Ajay K · Post by **Ajay K** » 10 Mar 2009 12:55

ChandraS
Post subject: Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces
Here's some news about weapons upgrades and acquisitions for the NSG after the Mumbai attacks.
NSG learns from 26/11, to upgrade its firepower........................

More interesting is that they are planning to go for SIG series assult rifles used by the Navy Marcos.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 10 Mar 2009 13:33

NSG has SIG rifles in its inventory....there are pics of it in use with them. Probably they are increasing numbers or doing some upgrades to existing stock.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 10 Mar 2009 14:07

Here is an interesting piece on the "CIA solution",on Special Ops and the CIA's style.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsf/a ... 90309.aspx

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 10 Mar 2009 14:38

This is pretty much a sniper rifle specification. NSG already has the HK PSG-1, often termed as the urban sniper rifle with an effective range of 800m. Guess they want more standoff distance, but how will that help/matter in a urban environment like the Mumbai ops?

Rather than more fancy gear IMO the NSG needs a budget increase for the basics. Better body armour , more money for Target Shooting. From what i was told in the late 90s early 2000s an NSG operator on rotation shot upto 300+ Rounds a week. It has reduced from that numbers. Also would love to see greater interaction with Foriegn HRT units (GSG-9, GIGN , Koreans , etc). Problem with developing tactics in a vacum is that sometimes you have to learn the hard way. Also after the Mumbai Op every CT/HRT unit in the world would like an insight into what went down. So it would be agood trade.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 10 Mar 2009 22:19

It is the man behind the machine which matters and not the shiny new gizmos alone!

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 11 Mar 2009 03:47

It is the man behind the machine which matters and not the shiny new gizmos alone!

Exactly. Expand budget for better training. More Ammo for Training . Better kill houses. More Real Life Situations at certain "high value" targets through out the country.
Probably more cross training with other HRT units. Lastly better body armour. NSG doesnt even have ballistic shields for their entry guys.

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 11 Mar 2009 11:24

Regarding the SIG series assault rifles, we already id'ed a SIG 550/552 Commando rifle with the NSG during the Mumbai ops. The news item was talking about acquiring night sight devices for mounting on these rifles. The need for such devices was apparent from the debriefing per the report. Also IIRC, a SIG rifle was ID'ed with an operator from the Gujarat Commando Force, who was part of Modi's security detail. So maybe there was an order of SIG rifles which were purchased and distributed among agencies.

Re: sniper rifle - I remember reading a news item/article saying the NSG had gotten the SIG SSG3000 sniper rifle. If true, it does fire the 7.62x51mm round and has a range of more than 1000 metres, similar to the one on the shortlist

Re: equipment - NSG does have the Raksha Kavach body armour designed to stop a 7.62 AK round at point blank range (~10ft). But it is said to be bulky and restricting easy movement. This is especially critical in urban ops in close spaces and hence there is an urgent need to get better body armour which will be lighter allowing easier movement while offering better protection. Also needed are ballistic helmets with visors and ballistic shields capable of with standing a grenade blast. They will also need to look at some of the homegrown technologies such this one Clicky

Another important thing is the establishment of a chain of command and a mechanism to coordinate between different agencies for conducting such operations and an effective media & PR policy to inform and harness public opinion whilst not giving away operational details.

Also totally agree on cross training with different CT/HRT units of the world. Media portrayal notwithstanding, every such unit knows that the job would as hard as it was for the Indian forces. Cross training and knowledge and tactics sharing will only serve to improve each other's skills to put forth an effective response to the newer evolving threats.

Ajay K · Post by **Ajay K** » 11 Mar 2009 11:44

ChandraS
Post subject: Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Regarding the SIG series assault rifles, we already id'ed a SIG 550/552 Commando rifle with the NSG during the Mumbai ops.

I thought only the Marcos were identified as carrying SIG series from the Mumbai operations.

ChandraS · Post by **ChandraS** » 11 Mar 2009 11:55

^ check out this post in the archives Clicky

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 11 Mar 2009 12:06

Ajay K, there was positive id of NSG with SIG rifles in GJ's photo thread during 26/11.

I really hope NSG starts cross-training with foreign units. Army, AF, Navy (incld. MARCOS to some extent) cross-train with other countries, wonder why NSG never took that initiative. So far they had only sent operators for training to Israel and such but never undertook cross-training exercises.

ssmitra · Post by **ssmitra** » 11 Mar 2009 19:15

So does that mean they are going to stick with the MP5 as their primary assault weapon. Me no expert but wouldn't this be a good time to go to a higher caliber like the HK UMP or the HK7. The key idea behind the UMP was to ceate lightweight and powerful submachine gun, that also will be cheaper than the MP-5. The UMP firing the .45ACP and .40SW. The MP7 has the 4.6x30mm ammunition is loaded with pointed all-steel bullets with brass jacket. Bullet weight is 1.6 gram (25 grains) and the muzzle velocity is 725 m/s (ca. 2400 fps). Manufacturer claims the 100% penetration of the CRISAT body armor (1.6mm of Titanium plus 20 layers of Kevlar) at the distance of 200 meters.

Disclaimer: all technical details from worldguns.ru

One new weapon which they should consider might be the CBJ-MS PDW manufactured by saab-bofors.

The core of the CBJ-MS system is its special ammunition, nominally marked as 6,5x25, which fires a variety of high-velocity projectiles. The primary loading is a saboted sub-caliber tungsten projectile, with caliber of 4mm (0.16") and weight of 2 gram (31 grain). This armor-piercing projectile is enclosed into lightweight polymer sabot, and when fired from 200mm (8") submachine gun barrel, muzzle velocity is as high as 830 m/s (2723 fps). This provides significant armor penetration, defeating standard CRISAT target at 230 meters or 7mm rolled steel armor at 50 meters. For use against unprotected targets, CBJ offers a spoon-tipped sub-caliber 4mm bullets, which will readily tumble upon impact with the body, to cause significant wound cavity. Same cartridge case also can be loaded with full-caliber 6.5mm bullets of various design. It must be noted that 6.5x25 CBJ ammunition can be used in a variety of weapons, originally chambered for 9x19 ammunition, with just replacement of the barrel and return springs, as the CBJ case is based on 9x19 cartridge case stretched forward and necked down to 6.5mm.

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg101-e.htm

Ques for the Guru's is there any cross training between the NSG and SPG. I know the outer ring for SPG is formed by the NSG but they seems to be little in common in terms of equipment.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 12 Mar 2009 00:14

ssmitra wrote: I know the outer ring for SPG is formed by the NSG but they seems to be little in common in terms of equipment.

Where did you get that?

ssmitra · Post by **ssmitra** » 12 Mar 2009 00:30

Raja Bose wrote:
ssmitra wrote: I know the outer ring for SPG is formed by the NSG but they seems to be little in common in terms of equipment.
Where did you get that?

whoops I thought that was SOP. That was my impression as that is what I have seen most of the time but it could be because of the presence of other VIPs. So is there no connection b/w SPG and SRG. I may be guessing here again but arn't the SPG personnel mainly recruited from the CPD-SRG folks.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 12 Mar 2009 01:13

SPG might have folks who were previously in SRG or vice versa (since NSG is purely deputation-based) - entirely possible. SPG is a self-contained unit with its own air assets and area security. They usually take over an area 'temporarily' when there charges are present and do not rely on other units/police except for crowd control or outer-outer-outer security. However, as per your experience, it seems they might work with other security units such as SRG if for example, you have a meeting of leaders which PM is attending but they will typically be in charge of command and control.

Ofcourse the fact that SPG owns air assets and NSG still doesn't gives you an idea of how much our netas care about their own backsides as opposed to the public's.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 12 Mar 2009 02:20

AFAIK, When my uncle was in SPG he knew a few people who served in NSG (SRG) and moved to SPG, this was during Rajiv Gandhi's time as PM.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Mar 2009 22:15

Dunno who is right here:

NSG boss should be from IPS: Ex-chief

The top post of country's elite commando force NSG should be held by an IPS officer rather than by a Lieutenant General as suggested by the Army, a former head of the organisation has said.

"The NSG chief should be from the police service. After the NSG finishes an operation, the message that goes to the world is that the elite commandos of India executed the job. But if it is an Army officer heading the NSG, it would look like the Army had to be called in for a Mumbai-like operation," said former NSG Director J K Dutt in New Delhi.

The NSG, a hundred per cent deputationist force, has a ratio of 47 per cent paramilitary and police component and 53 per cent Army component till now. The Army component is likely to increase with the establishment of new regional hubs

"We have a motto at the NSG – no OG (olive green uniform of the Army), no Khaki (the police and paramilitary uniform) only NSG (the black nomex uniforms)...the commandos are best trained in the business," Dutt said.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 13 Mar 2009 00:14

sum wrote: "The NSG chief should be from the police service. After the NSG finishes an operation, the message that goes to the world is that the elite commandos of India executed the job. But if it is an Army officer heading the NSG, it would look like the Army had to be called in for a Mumbai-like operation," said former NSG Director J K Dutt in New Delhi.

[/quote]

This is an idiotic comment from JK Dutt to say the least. In fact, the message did go to the world that some police SWAT units of India executed the job...so much for his statement.

And yes, the Army was called in for Mumbai...not just the SAG of NSG but also the line units...who's he kidding. In the end, this police/army tussle may only matter on broad issues since at unit level all commanders in SAG are army men anyways.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 13 Mar 2009 07:59

Which RR is a Commando Bn?

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 13 Mar 2009 08:16

RayC,
Have you read Lt Gen Vijay Oberoi tratise on the Indian SF scene?
Interesting to say the least..
If interested let me know and I will email to you.
regs
Kanbargimath

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 13 Mar 2009 08:31

ks_sachin,

^^^If it is not inconvenient, can you mail it to me also? let me know and I will provide by bijli-mail address here.

RayC · Post by **RayC** » 13 Mar 2009 08:43

ks_sachin wrote:RayC,
Have you read Lt Gen Vijay Oberoi tratise on the Indian SF scene?
Interesting to say the least..
If interested let me know and I will email to you.
regs
Kanbargimath

No.

I would love to get it.

Do e mail

Thanks.