Re: A look back at the partition
Posted: 28 Apr 2010 00:49
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My parents told many heart wrenching stories like this and i could see many of my uncle's/elder's face expressions hardning in seconds at the mention of 47. Our whole exteneded family moved out of Sialkot area at the time of partition. One of my Grandfather's brother made the mistake of trying to pick his fallen "Pugg" and was decapitated by the Muslim servant hiding behind the door. Different story that few of the relatives went back in September to take care of the unfinished business with the Maulvi . One of them is still alive and kicking in Delhi.
What he really meant was social engineering of Islam and culture which will be controlled from south asia.Brad Goodman wrote: Who the hell is wants to see renaissance of Islam what ever we have seen till now is enough.
JS looses all the plot with his "rennaisance" hope and wish. He ought to know that Qaddoo cant become Tarbooz by adding sugar and crow dont become Swan by washing with Sau Munn Soap.Brad Goodman wrote:I had a very high regard for Jaswant Singh especially after reading Strobe Talbott's book but I am really not able to understand what he is trying to say with “ real renaissance of Islam "is it some kind of chanakiyan thing? Who the hell is wants to see renaissance of Islam what ever we have seen till now is enough.
The topic is already very nearly forgotten. It would be completely so in another twenty years when the people, who saw it all happen, die away. I did not see it happen, but at some stage of my life formed an abiding interest in my roots, and therefore in the subject. The subject is the persecution, partly state-sponsored, qualifying as human rights violation, and the resultant exodus of Hindus from what was once known as Eastern Bengal. This ‘Eastern Bengal’ later came to be known as East Pakistan, and is now known as Bangladesh. This exodus began with the independence and the partition of India and that of the province of Bengal, became a flood during the East Pakistan days and continues, though to a lesser extent, to this day.
The stated purpose of this book is to put on record this major case of human rights violation ; and also to trigger further research on the subject ; and further to point out the extent to which it has been concealed. To restate the same on a different plane, the purpose is to tell the post-1960 generation of Bangladeshi Muslims on the one hand and of Indian Bengali Hindus with East Bengali roots on the other, what their ancestors did, the former to the latter, and how the latter swallowed and concealed it.
Sorry Acharya Ji but my pea sized brain is not able to fathom your wisdom. Only social engineering we have seen till now is discussion about the length of beard & trousers. How many marriages how many stones to use to cleanup etc etc.Acharya wrote:What he really meant was social engineering of Islam and culture which will be controlled from south asia.Brad Goodman wrote: Who the hell is wants to see renaissance of Islam what ever we have seen till now is enough.
The only reason salafi thaought have not taken roots in India is because IM are scared of hindu majority and cannot openly follow the commandments in their hadits especially about dealing with kuffar. If we had a 50-50 ratio or anything in their favor we would have seen partition style violence every dayramana wrote:Its the hiving off of TSP from India that allowed the Salafi strain fo Islam to make headway in TSP. What he says is had the Partition not happened this might not be the future of Islam but under Indian influence. The Salafi school is a derivative school. Deobandi school is a primary school among the major schools of thought. By brining in Salafi ideas the TSP Deobandi had to become more hardline.
Try to read the message and not get turned off by the messenger or the superficial level of the message.
Prem,Prem wrote:My parents told many heart wrenching stories like this and i could see many of my uncle's/elder's face expressions hardning in seconds at the mention of 47. Our whole exteneded family moved out of Sialkot area at the time of partition. One of my Grandfather's brother made the mistake of trying to pick his fallen "Pugg" and was decapitated by the Muslim servant hiding behind the door. Different story that few of the relatives went back in September to take care of the unfinished business with the Maulvi . One of them is still alive and kicking in Delhi.
Most of the violence in the sub continent are similar even now. The Mumbai attack on Indian and attack on Indians in Afghanistan are similar. They know those attacks but stay behind the scenes, invisible and unseen, and let others do the crime in the opensurinder wrote:
Partition violance fits in the British way of things to the T---stay behind the scenes, invisible and unseen, and let others do the crime in the open; direct the crime and shape its contours so that it of strategic and tactical use to the British.
surinder wrote:Prem,Prem wrote:My parents told many heart wrenching stories like this and i could see many of my uncle's/elder's face expressions hardning in seconds at the mention of 47. Our whole exteneded family moved out of Sialkot area at the time of partition. One of my Grandfather's brother made the mistake of trying to pick his fallen "Pugg" and was decapitated by the Muslim servant hiding behind the door. Different story that few of the relatives went back in September to take care of the unfinished business with the Maulvi . One of them is still alive and kicking in Delhi.
I would request you to write that story in detail here. Also I am curious about that "unfinished business with the Maulvi". If you are do not wish to write here, you can write to my email address --- t a r t h a l l i attherateof hotmail bindi company.
No wonder the RAPE on Dish Network TV pretend to be living in a la la land cooking Continental and saying gratituously saying inshallah every other sentence.Pakistan is a very gloomy place., 95% of people wear Brown or Sky blue color salwar kameez., and all women wear black. So you only see three colors and urdu everywhere (very very few signs in english). The sewer system runs through the middle of the road (instead of on both sides of the road) and thus it stinks a lot., with brackish/greenish sewer pond every couple of KMs (from Lahore to Shaikhupura and then to Gujranwala). You will also notice that lots of people spit phelgum every few minutes on street, scratching their privates, though they will squat to pee near a wall.
There was a study on the % of population and its behavior on the net somewhere. The study seems accurate if we compare it with current islamic nations.Brad Goodman wrote: The only reason salafi thaought have not taken roots in India is because IM are scared of hindu majority and cannot openly follow the commandments in their hadits especially about dealing with kuffar. If we had a 50-50 ratio or anything in their favor we would have seen partition style violence every day
Jinnah was in secret communication with Churchill1. It was in British interest to create a state which remains their perpetual "whore" so that they can maintain their strategic presence in middle-east and central asia vis-a-vis the "Great Game" with Russia. Without these interests, Pakistan won't exist then and now and in future. The geopolitical "JOB" of pakistan is to act as a rental state for the British Empire (and now USA, britain's political successor) and increasingly China. Pakistan also serves purpose that of Military arm of Saudi Arabia against Iran (and possibly Turkey in future). All these players (but prima-facie, the british) made sure that Pakistan exists in space and times, in spite of all odds (read desire of Hindus to unify India).
Churchill had to hide behind a skirt to talk with Jinnah secretly.The letters reveal Jinnah saw Churchill as an ally against caste Hindus
Sir Martin Gilbert, the British biographer of Winston Churchill revealed that Churchill had asked Jinnah to dispatch secret letters to him by addressing them to a lady, Elizabeth Giliat, who had been Churchill’s secretary. This secret interaction continued for years. Jinnah’s key decisions between 1940 and 1946, including the demand for Pakistan in 1940, were taken after getting the nod from Churchill or Lord Linlithgow and Wavell, both Churchill’s admirers.
Atri!Atri wrote:Most of these things are known to members of this board. This is the gist of the arguments I have been putting forth on another board to make people understand the reasons behind partition. Very few people think from the perspective of great-game and pan-islamism, an understanding which is so elementarily seen in all the discussions of BRF. I have been propagating this line of thought on various boards. Please to read it and suggest additional points.
....
Hence, how justified is it to call an institution, an ideology and a man (or group of men) who refuse to believe in concept of nation as nationalists?
Atri wrote:Most of these things are known to members of this board. This is the gist of the arguments I have been putting forth on another board to make people understand the reasons behind partition. Very few people think from the perspective of great-game and pan-islamism, an understanding which is so elementarily seen in all the discussions of BRF. I have been propagating this line of thought on various boards. Please to read it and suggest additional points.
....
Hence, how justified is it to call an institution, an ideology and a man (or group of men) who refuse to believe in concept of nation as nationalists?
Thank you bringing this up - most Indian youth of today and certainly most young Bengalis do not know, what our parents and grand-parents had to go through in 1946, in the Great Calcutta Killings and how Calcutta was eventually saved.It was the butchers of Kolkata which saved Kolkata from going to Pakistan. Gopal Butcher was the local Hindu Goonda of Kolkata who became quite popular (or infamous) for his terror
The answer to this is that even after the British partitioned Bombay Presidency to carve out a separate Sindh province, the pervasive influence and fame of Gandhi and the Congress in the region did not decrease. While Hindus were systematically targeted by Islamic terrorists in the name of Islam (Pir Pagara is one example), the pacifist approach advocated by Gandhi lulled the people into a false sense of belief and trust.Curiously, it was riots which sparked off negotiations. There was a huge Hindu population in Sindh. But it was not burning like Bengal and Punjab, hence no negotiations and entire Sindh went to Pakistan. Sindh should have been partitioned too, like Punjab and Bengal. It is the people who indulged in riots forced policy makers to take their notice and redraw.
One of the well written books on the subject of people being forced from one part of their motherland to another (calling them refugees would be an insult IMHO) due to the violence of the Partition is :surinder wrote:The treatment of refugees in India was remarkably efficient and fair, an uncharacteristic trait, which aided in more coming in.
Apologies, no link. Here its is:RamaY wrote:There was a study on the % of population and its behavior on the net somewhere. The study seems accurate if we compare it with current islamic nations.Brad Goodman wrote: The only reason salafi thaought have not taken roots in India is because IM are scared of hindu majority and cannot openly follow the commandments in their hadits especially about dealing with kuffar. If we had a 50-50 ratio or anything in their favor we would have seen partition style violence every day
When Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be
regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone:
United States -- 1.0%
Australia -- 1.5%
Canada -- 1.9%
China -- 1%-2%
Italy -- 1.5%
Norway -- 1.8%*
At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and
disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street
gangs:
Denmark -- 2%
Germany -- 3.7%
United Kingdom -- 2.7%
Spain -- 4%
Thailand -- 4.6%
From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their
percentage of the population.
They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards)
food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase
pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with
threats for failure to comply. At this point, they will work to get the
ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic
Law.
France -- 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- 5%
Switzerland -- 4.3%
The Netherlands -- 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- 5.8%
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as
a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris -- car-burnings) . Any
non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (
Amsterdam -- Mohammed cartoons).
Guyana -- 10%
India -- 13.4%
Israel -- 16%
Kenya -- 10%
Russia -- 10-15%
After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations,
sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia -- 32.8%
At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and
ongoing militia warfare:
Bosnia -- 40%
Chad -- 53.1%
Lebanon -- 59.7%
From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other
religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a
weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
Albania -- 70%
Malaysia -- 60.4%
Qatar -- 77.5%
Sudan -- 70%
After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
Bangladesh -- 83%
Egypt -- 90%
Gaza -- 98.7%
Indonesia -- 86.1%
Iran -- 98%
Iraq -- 97%
Jordan -- 92%
Morocco -- 98.7%
Pakistan -- 97%
Palestine -- 99%
Syria -- 90%
Tajikistan -- 90%
Turkey -- 99.8%
100% will usher in the peace because everybody is a Muslim:
Afghanistan -- 100%
Saudi Arabia -- 100%
Somalia -- 100%
Yemen -- 99.9%
Of course, that's not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then
start killing each other for a variety of reasons.
AjayKK: Thank you very much for posting this. I am one of those, who always wanted to do the exact same thing this author has done. Document the stories of the partition time of Sindhis, especially in Mumbai, being raised there and a Hindu Sindhi myself. But like many others, with good intentions, life takes over and never made it a priority. Thanks again.AjayKK wrote: http://sindhireflections.blogspot.com/2 ... tions.html
(One might want contact her to post here if there is immunity from the Chankian Pink Chaddi Secularists Brigade)
I have a question with a minority population of India in range of 30 crores how could we have become strong? I mean how many hindu / sikh / parsee/ jews/ christians have died in post 1947 India under the pretex of koran and shariah law? The only reason being 80% vs 13% logic now if you raise stakes to 60% vs 40% you do not need to imagine our friend AjayKK has provided us with real data to see the carnage that would have been unleashed.jambudvipa wrote:Bji,I agree with your analysis.What we have ended up with POWI is a modern day version of the mediveal sultanates which were the blight of India.A dagger pointed straight at our heart.It keep arming itself,all ills are blamed on India and the impoverished population eager to go on a jihad.
Even with a population of the minority crossing 30 crores, unfied India would still have the strength to crush any insurrection.We would not have been left with this ambiguity and the senseless massacre of millions of hindus/sikhs.
Only an "akhand bharat" can realise its true potential.
Ashok Mitra, ICS and pink, is a lot more charitable. While admitting that he came to appreciate Patel immensely upon observing his performance as the Union Home Minister, and observing that India's internal administration would have been much more firm and focused, he still insists that Patel was a man of limited capabilities. He did not have the quality that Nehru had, of being a helmsman acceptable to all and sundry[xliii]. But in the end he concurs in all that has been said about Nehru by the others. He particularly mentions the defeat of the Congress in a by-election in Calcutta in 1949 at the hands of Sarat Bose. According to Mitra this defeat made Nehru lose his balance completely and he declared that Calcutta and West Bengal were both plagued by factionalism and intrigue, and Dr. B.C.Roy was unequal to the situation. A defeat in a by-election, and that too at the hands of a stalwart like Sarat Bose, according to Mitra, should not have unnerved Nehru so badly, but it did! This also reminded Mitra of the childish state to which he had been reduced upon not being able to control the riots at Delhi, which was taken full advantage of by Mountbatten who acted like the boss after India had won its independence[xliv].
Those who lived close to the border walked down from their villages and crossed on foot. In the process many were looted and left with nothing except the clothes on their backs. Innumerable women were snatched away by roving Muslim gangs of whom a mention has already been made. Uniformed East Pakistani civil defence personnel, known as Ansars, participated in this looting and snatching of women. Malakshmi and Rajlakshmi Pal, two young sisters, were trying to cross the border on foot, and met fate such as described above. An account of their misfortune, as made in a statement they later made to Ananda Bazar Patrika is as follows : “ Just when we were about to cross the border we were accosted by four men who started asking us questions and then forced us to accompany them. They then told us to give everything that we had on us. We gave them Ten Rupees (a very large sum in those days). But they did not let us go. They first forcibly stripped us, squeezed our breasts, touched us between the legs, and finally raped us”[xiv].
Dr. B.C.Roy made a statement on April 2, 1950 that in East Bengal non-Muslims were being forced to observe Islamic rites. Hundreds of Hindus were killed, their houses set on fire, their crops destroyed, and of course, their womenfolk taken away. Thousands were made to convert to Islam. Ananda Bazar Patrika of April 3 reported that widespread torching and looting of Hindus had taken place in Khulna. At the Benapol border between Khulna and Calcutta two unmarried girls called Meera and Dheera, and a married woman called Bakulrani Mitra were snatched away while they were on their way to India[xv].
As mentioned earlier, trains going towards India, or otherwise carrying a large number of Hindus were a particular target of the roving loot-murder-and-rape gangs, including the Ansars. A train was found to have steamed into a border station in India with a few of the compartments empty, except for a few bloodstained dhotis, saris and broken conchshell bangles that Bengali Hindu married women wear on their wrists[xvi]. Benapol, the last East Pakistani station between Khulna and Calcutta was a favourite haunt of these gangs.
Read Urvashi Butalia's book on Partition and the Silence associated with it. The events of 47 were traumatic, too traumatic to automatically recall and preserve them, especially in a society that does not even bother to show the least amount of curiousity in those events (because their province was not partitioned). There are no monuments to partition, there was no white papter on partition by GOI, the talkative JLN went silent on what really happened, the 'experiments with truth' MKG never bothered to speak out about behind the scenes conversation which would have allowed us to join the points and find out the truth. If you from a province that did not suffer partition, all you see when you see descendents of 47 trauma is "greedy, pushy, aggressive Punjabis", or "communist, crazy, useless, treasonous, inefficient Bengalis". (please add the adjective "Khalistani" to their descriptions of Punjabi Sikhs.) Regarding Sindhis, most of our countrymen ask "what is Sind? Where is Sind?" We do not have an ethose which will think of all us as parts of the same bodies. We do not think that if your lever bleeds, then your hands cannot laugh and make fun of it, if your left leg hurts, the right one cannot just continue to live like before. We lack the empathy required treat each on of *us*.Most Sikh and Hindu families whose ancestors suffered in 47, should keep this alive as a fundamental part of their tradition and handed down over generations until the full debt is paid off.