Bharat Rakshak

nachiket wrote:quote="Aditya_V"]

abhishek_sharma wrote:Raj Thackeray blames migrants for terror strikes, BSP calls him 'terrorist'/quote]

What a B**turd, hope he meets his 72 if he keeps this type of Politics.

Between the kangress and this ba$tard who are Mumbaikars supposed to vote for in the next elections if they want the security situation to improve?

Saar Raj Thackerey is a Congress Ally, comparing him with Balasaheb is like saying, Sonia, RG, Maneka and Varun all belong to the same party.

lets assume that the BRF hypothesis of ISI's traces will be hard to find on this one is true. What shape will the ongoing investigation take?

1. identification and arrests of india based operatives, perhaps from Ind. Muj, or Deccan Queens or whatever they are calling themselves - some hoo hah in press, "i told you so's!" from pakistan, silence from the world community. shouts of case closed

2. gradual unearthing of external linkages, perhaps via the gulf, or other saarc routes, maybe even some new outpost - but continuous shouts of case closed from isloo

3. D-company and other operatives and facilitators identified and perhaps some even arrested

or...

if india continues to show restraint, perhaps a ratcheting up of activity
a. another attack in india
b. attack on one of 700,000 indian consulates in afghanistan
c. hijacking of indian merchantman in the indian ocean

d. deliberate revelation of another cog in the planning machinery

the game plan i think is to keep india off balance. i suspect that even unkil might be telling pak to accept india's solution on cashmere, which might be yet another reason for the tspa to derail the talks

in the meantime, mango indians will do what mango indians love doing best - have loud arguements with each other and not actually get down to agreeing on any means of improving the security situation

all eez vell

Singha wrote:a guy with bomb in his turban killed 4 people in the funeral of hamid karzai's brother yesterday.

there could be people willing to even eat bombs and 'carry' them inside stomachs to kill a few more kafir.

The amerkhans are very worried about surgically implanted bombs with human carriers.

They have been warning everybody.

well, given the musharraf inserted gubo device (MiG) that was used to kill the saudi prince a while back, the soosai bummers are capable of anything - i suppose the first guy who ran onto that scene probably said "oh sh*t!"

americans can afford the PET type body scanners to see inside stomachs and musharaffs, but we really cannot.

so lubricated gloved agents pouncing on any paki coming into our domain seems to be the only way.

why lubricate? a true mujjie's musharaf will be well seasoned to two way traffic anyway (since juniyar madrassah)

Lalmohan wrote:lets assume that the BRF hypothesis of ISI's traces will be hard to find on this one is true. What shape will the ongoing investigation take?

1. identification and arrests of india based operatives, perhaps from Ind. Muj, or Deccan Queens or whatever they are calling themselves - some hoo hah in press, "i told you so's!" from pakistan, silence from the world community. shouts of case closed

2. gradual unearthing of external linkages, perhaps via the gulf, or other saarc routes, maybe even some new outpost - but continuous shouts of case closed from isloo

3. D-company and other operatives and facilitators identified and perhaps some even arrested

or...

if india continues to show restraint, perhaps a ratcheting up of activity
a. another attack in india
b. attack on one of 700,000 indian consulates in afghanistan
c. hijacking of indian merchantman in the indian ocean

d. deliberate revelation of another cog in the planning machinery

the game plan i think is to keep india off balance. i suspect that even unkil might be telling pak to accept india's solution on cashmere, which might be yet another reason for the tspa to derail the talks

in the meantime, mango indians will do what mango indians love doing best - have loud arguements with each other and not actually get down to agreeing on any means of improving the security situation

all eez vell

HM already said "ALL" terror groups are under the scanner. That should be hint enough. The safe bet is to blame the ISI and find excuses not to deal with the ISI. An even safer ploy is to look at saffron terror - that causes least takleef to all the foxes circling around. The Islamists can quietly clarfy to their own faithful that after all H&D is theirs onlee - people should not doubt that it was Islamic call. But outside for the formal media breakfast frenzy - cry about evil yindoo conspiracies. Yindus will lick p-sec salivations so no real opposition and no electoral costs onlee.

Singha wrote:americans can afford the PET type body scanners to see inside stomachs and musharaffs, but we really cannot.

so lubricated gloved agents pouncing on any paki coming into our domain seems to be the only way.

Surgically implanted meaning other than the cavities being discussed.

A lot of explosive (triggered by a radio device) can be easily be inserted into the thoracic or abdominal cavity. It will not set off any of the other alarms at any airport if the metallic object is claimed as a pacemaker to explain the surgical scars.

The amerkhans actually claim to have knowledge of such experiments by the bad guys.

@ singha saar. Saari to be a spoilt spaart. But full baady scanners are not based on PET scan tech nor are they all that sophisticated . In fact GUBO is ANY DAY more effective than full body scanners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_body_ ... ectiveness

nachiket wrote:

Aditya_V wrote:Raj Thackeray blames migrants for terror strikes, BSP calls him 'terrorist'

What a B**turd, hope he meets his 72 if he keeps this type of Politics.

Between the kangress and this ba$tard who are Mumbaikars supposed to vote for in the next elections if they want the security situation to improve?

kangress is in alliance with this guy.

JE Menon wrote:The sentiment towards Nidhi is understandable, but not entirely justified. Observations suggest the following environment within NDTV:

Nidhi is on the ascendant, while Barkha is on a downward gradient (only the steepness of it remains subject of uncertainty). The latter's growing unpopularity within the organisation, and in the online world is at least beginning to have an impact on her career. It is however being finessed through the age-old realities that no humans can avoid, namely: Barkha is a fat old cow (by media standards) while youngistan does not much care for her looks, and she has no specific "integrity" pillar to cling to (kargil reportage, 26/11 reportage, intercepted phone calls). Barkha has apparently been taking measures to reverse the trend, seemingly on a diet (crash), she has lost some weight, and tried to "feminise" herself a bit more. She remains fugly. There is no chance of this having any success against the looks of Nidhi, and her screen presence, or her chemistry with the talk-show crowds. Chances are, therefore, that Barkha will face the life-choice of stagnation in her frontline role, or being pushed upwards and increasingly out of sight.

Consequently, as Nidhi gains more relative power, and her sense of the public becomes more finely attuned, you will find her positions becoming more nuanced and reflecting a finer balance. She is a Kashmiri and probably has a better understanding of the situation there, and the fundamental issues involved, than most of us. But she has a job, and she needs to keep it. Undoubtedly, compromises will have to be made, and will be. We need to be a little more charitable.

Like I said, these are observations and could be entirely wrong. However, would appreciate if someone can tell me how wrong they are.

Disclaimer: I have already claimed somewhere in one of the threads in the fairly recent past that I find her to be attractive

Yes, Nidhi is on the rise, creating her own aura/charisma/chemistry but not sharp enough as B. She is working through though. The event referred by sum where she raised the question shows either her bereft of acuity or her bias. Job is not an excuse. If that is the case, even B can have that excuse.

OTOH B seems to raise critical question not typical of her against Delhi durbar. She even appeared with Sindhur/Kukum as traditional Hindu. But, she still appears to keep her habit of "cultivating" people and what she described that as "stringing along". Something cannot be changed.

Aditya_V wrote:

KLNMurthy wrote: That's a bit too fatalistic. There is a lot of routine, standard, boring, professional police work that could be done (which is done in major US cities) which is not being done, as noted by Kiran Bedi and others in the Sagarika Ghose Face the Nation show posted here earlier.

Linky

Others like shiv here have also noted the dysfunctionality of the system in Indian cities like Mumbai. Just to say, "one stone is bound to hit" veers into the intellectually bankrupt territory of DIE like Rahul Gandhi.

Also, using expressions like "let's not go overboard" (I hope thoughtlessly and not deliberately) in this context connotes a condescending and manipulative tone, as if people having and articulating concerns and developing ideas interactively through forums such as these, are unintelligent, irrational and emotional creatures without a sense of proportion(by implication, unlike the speaker himself)--again a favorite rhetorical trick of DIE types.

But US has got the defence of Geography, truth unless we hit the neighbour where it hurts say sink a submarine, stop the propaganda which falsly states that TSP/kashmir are only victims of everything but not perpatrators of nothing you will not get anywhere. And given India's geographic location, stuff like POTA which enable wiretapes, Interogations which today are not possible, you are never going to prevent enough terror attacks.

I don't want to make too much of the contrast with US; will just note that US is far more vulnerable than it appears, and yes, it could easily have been hit by a 'stone' (shahzad et al failed by sheer luck but were caught by a generally functional and responsive police system and community links--witness the muslim vendor in times square who reported the suspicious vehicle to police). But that's not the point--are we as a people, doing all we can, to defend ourselves, is the point here when it comes to terrorist attacks.

Having POTA, torture, mass roundups etc., don't help in themselves and may in fact hurt more than help; in a properly functioning police system, the beat constable and plainclotheswallahs are in touch with community informants, know who is who, who has moved into a particular mohalla, etc. Just touching back on what I know of the US system, a good deal is done in cities like L.A., in terms of developing this kind of routine intelligence, and doing some basic co-opting of 'communities of interest' all in a mundane, unobtrusive way, that has nothing to do with Gitmo or wiretaps etc. The point made is that Indian metro police are not doing this, are not trained to do this.

I am all for harming pakis when and where we can., but we need to separate the issues of aggressively going after the enemy from the issue of defending our people. Right now, it seems that both the jingoes and the WKK-ites conflate the two. Jingoes see bombing and sinking of subs as the solution to ending terrorism--which it is not, it is only a partial act of war that will demonstrably provoke more terrorism (witness paki jarnail's credible threat that we already have our people in place to do terrorism, post-abbotabad; so-called Karachi project 1 and Karachi project 2 referred to by Praveen Swami in the video linked earlier). WKK-ites point to this real consequence of carrying out acts of war and then jump into a fatalistic stance of "there is nothing we can do, some will get through only" when patently we are doing far far less than we can about defending ourselves.

Yes, the correct answer is destruction of TSP, but obviously there are feasibility issues there (not to speak of low traction for that answer in mainstream Indian circles) and while we are figuring out a way to accomplish this (and demolishing the false rhetoric of cashmeerees as victims only etc. is a basic low-hanging low-risk fruit that we can pick there and haven't done), we need to be defending ourselves in the best possible way we can. Again, this is NOT something we are doing today, probably in part because it is boring, painstaking, detailed professional type of work that doesn't have a satisfactory boom and bang to go with it.

No, the police in all metros do keep that "touch". But there are obstacles in mindsets and refusal to use such info in the higher up. Also penetrating Muslim circles becomes difficult. In both directions - willingness and reliability of those who can from the police side, and constant vigilance that info doesnt go out of the community from the other side. When powerful criminal networks get involved that becomes even more complicated. The lowest level police functionaries know a lot more than they are given credit for.

metro police in india are more deployed to VIP security and traffic control. crime branch focusses on the big crimes and bagging mafia criminals. they do have informers but only among fringe criminals. most indian people are conditioned by british era memories , media and bollywood to AVOID all contact with the police lest they be framed or caught in some mess. police == korrupt , brutal thugs in khaki.

the community police and informers every area thats needed just does not exist, except by chance events like some passing cop noticing something odd and deciding to look or getting a targeted tip.

IM ghettos build this 'wall' around themselves and outsiders are immediately noted and viewed with vague suspicion if found asking too many questions.

I used to get a lot of info from the lower officers, and members. The level of details that they maintained was astonishing. I still think we are underestimating the amount of surveillance thats carried out. Using that info is problematic.

brihaspati wrote:No, the police in all metros do keep that "touch". But there are obstacles in mindsets and refusal to use such info in the higher up. Also penetrating Muslim circles becomes difficult. In both directions - willingness and reliability of those who can from the police side, and constant vigilance that info doesnt go out of the community from the other side. When powerful criminal networks get involved that becomes even more complicated. The lowest level police functionaries know a lot more than they are given credit for.

retd. policewoman turned civil society activist Kiran Bedi's vehement assertion on the sagarika video is that the system to keep in touch with the community and use that information has completely broken down, is beyond repair and needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up (re-invented is the term she used).

abhishek_sharma wrote:Raj Thackeray blames migrants for terror strikes, BSP calls him 'terrorist'

Sensible comment from one of the readers: Where is the Royal Prince to stand up for the honour of UP and Bihar?

KLNMurthy wrote:

brihaspati wrote:No, the police in all metros do keep that "touch". But there are obstacles in mindsets and refusal to use such info in the higher up. Also penetrating Muslim circles becomes difficult. In both directions - willingness and reliability of those who can from the police side, and constant vigilance that info doesnt go out of the community from the other side. When powerful criminal networks get involved that becomes even more complicated. The lowest level police functionaries know a lot more than they are given credit for.

retd. policewoman turned civil society activist Kiran Bedi's vehement assertion on the sagarika video is that the system to keep in touch with the community and use that information has completely broken down, is beyond repair and needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up (re-invented is the term she used).

I too am saying that the use-bit has broken down. But its not that info is not automatically gathered. It is. it simply cannot be used because using that will face political obstacles of the highest order. Moreover what will you use it for ? to do what? as soon as links land up into "protected" territory - those links become untouchable. Politicians are also in a jam because they have publicly built up the images of certain groups in such a way that they are now hostage to their own public stance on this. Networks use this paralysis.

Raj Thackeray's is a diversionary tactic by INC - move the focus from itself and poak. The finger pointing starts among Hindus and bbc et al laps up and says "see we told you, Hindus are never capable of governing themselves".

Then again, just as many police officers enjoyed torturing the red captives, there were others who helped them escape or protect them. From what comes across of functionaries in the border districts on the "east", community affiliations appear be manifest only in case of one particular group. So info from that source will be highly unreliable, or deliberately misleading - even when they appear to be coming from genuine functionaries. That seems to be happening in Mumbai case. Though unlike the east, Mumbai seems to be getting punished repeatedly. Which means it is not yet seen as having GUBO'd enough compared to the eastern city. Possibly the tinge of saffron still left is the main khujlee. Also geo-strategic advantage - and needs of the Gulf and karachi. Guj has to be surrounded and isolated. Mumbai is the entreport for islamists from the upper coasts into Deccan.

From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ci ... population

Mumbai
Population 12,478,447
Population density per sq km 20,694

Delhi
Pop 12,565,901
Pop density per sqkm 29,149

Chennai
Pop 4,616,639
Pop density/sqkm 24,688

Kolkata
Pop 4,486,679
Pop density per sq km 24,252

How come the police of metros other than Mumbai are able to "reach out" to troublesome populations better than Mumbai? Mumbai actually has the lowest population density of the four and not even the highest population. It's not even the only port or the one with a high Muslim population. Mumbai is being mismanaged.

Very very graphic first hand image of explosion at opera house:

https://picasaweb.google.com/rohitvats2 ... directlink

This is the reality - which needs to hit every single Indian who walks on mother earth. This is what we are being subjected to.....and this is why pakistan needs to be wiped off the map of the earth.

Written with war in mind but includes CI - should be relevant for this thread too. Just wanted to clear up the name of the armed forces officers in general - who have been attributed in another thread with blindly pushing for "political solution" onlee:

On Matters of Principles
V K Shrivastava [Major General V K Shrivastava (Retd) is former Executive Editor of the Indian Defence Review and former Senior Fellow at IDSA, New Delhi.]
CLAWS Journal Winter 2009

These endeavours also reveal the nation’s core ideas on war. “Independent government of India...took the stubborn view, that security came from peace rather than peace from security”.13 In essence, therefore, the Indian policy has been that of war prevention. In consonance, it has never initiated a war. Even so, when a war was thrust upon the nation, the political leadership responded with steely resolve while trying simultaneously to restrict the scope of the conflict. During the Kargil War, for example, the hostilities were confined to the areas of intrusions and neither was the Line of Control (LoC) allowed to be crossed nor the air space to be violated. Further, successive Indian governments have repeatedly opted for an early conflict termination. Was it not India that took the Kashmir issue to the United Nations (UN) in December 1947? Similarly, in CI situations, the government was usually quick to order the army back to the barracks at the slightest hint of reconciliation from the insurgents.

In the light of the foregoing, some analytical observations are being made:

The Indian approach to wars enabled it to retain the moral high ground. The philosophy must be taken a note of since similar political assertions are likely to influence our future military undertakings.

Political disregard for the armed forces’ participation in the decision-making process was apparent in almost all our military ventures. As may be recalled, in 1951, Nehru is known to have told Gen Cariappa, “It is not the business of the commander-in chief to tell the prime minister who is going to attack us where. In fact, the Chinese will.”14. Such misplaced notions led to the debacle of 1962. Similar politico-military disconnect resulted in the infirmities of political directions and the Sri Lankan misadventure. When such advice was sought and heeded as in 1971, the armed forces created history.

In quest of peace, India always bargained for an early end of hostilities and in the promptitude, invariably failed to successfully stage the “end game” through politico-diplomatic initiatives. As a result, hard earned military gains were repeatedly squandered away – in the UN, in Tashkent and in Shimla. Not surprisingly, therefore, despite four wars, the J&K issue has remained unresolved. In CI, the insurgents in order to extricate and regroup themselves, routinely misused situations in similar inclinations of the government.

Our righteous intentions and actions were never capitalised on to mould the world opinion in our favour.

by never initiating a war, we surrendered the initiative to our adversaries. Our self-imposed restraints closed some of the offensive options. Weighed down by such disadvantages, the orchestration of tri-Service synergy within the short duration of the war became all the more difficult.

India’s defensive orientations have led to indifferent intelligence efforts and repeated fiascos. The consequences of the collective intelligence failures in Sri Lanka and in Kargil need no recounting. Our record on this count in dealing with insurgency and terrorism has been equally dismal.

All these, regrettably, project India as a soft state.

shiv wrote:From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ci ... population

Mumbai
Population 12,478,447
Population density per sq km 20,694

Delhi
Pop 12,565,901
Pop density per sqkm 29,149

Chennai
Pop 4,616,639
Pop density/sqkm 24,688

Kolkata
Pop 4,486,679
Pop density per sq km 24,252

How come the police of metros other than Mumbai are able to "reach out" to troublesome populations better than Mumbai? Mumbai actually has the lowest population density of the four and not even the highest population. It's not even the only port or the one with a high Muslim population. Mumbai is being mismanaged.

None of the other three metros had any political force seen as a real potential threat to "Muslims". In fact they did their best to show the opposite - other communities could be at the mercy of rashtryia or party sponsored violence but the muslims were always well-protected. Even these metros cannot penetrate the ghettos very much in terms of CI. They come to terms by agreeing defacto to partition the metro into domains of influence and mutual non-intervention. Buying peace - sort of.

Shivji I think you would want to look at the number of vehicles plying on the road in Mumbai as against any other city , I am sure it will be considerably more than any of the four metros. Also in present context 'Dadar' is as busy as a place can get, morning time there is always a jam in Dadar (siddhivinayak is near by ) and then since it's a junction lot of daily commuters use it as a hub.

Shivji is perhaps talking of "personal touch" and he is right in his angle. But penetration of such networks is nearly impossible in all the metros.

sanjeevpunj wrote:PM and others VIPs visiting creates logistic problems.CAUTION:It can be used to execute further attacks on the gathered crowd.Even the PM can be targetted in such situations.Security Advisors and agencies must note that such visit should be discouraged as much as possible,simply because a worse disaster could happen.

Unlikely. MMS is the greatest security blanket for TSP. He is worth a half a dozen TSPA corps. So dont worry about his security.

Worry about others in case he moves on. For now he has set the standard of showing sympathy/crocodile tears that will be demanded by media by his successors.

brihaspati wrote:
None of the other three metros had any political force seen as a real potential threat to "Muslims". In fact they did their best to show the opposite - other communities could be at the mercy of rashtryia or party sponsored violence but the muslims were always well-protected. Even these metros cannot penetrate the ghettos very much in terms of CI. They come to terms by agreeing defacto to partition the metro into domains of influence and mutual non-intervention. Buying peace - sort of.

Brihaspati - I think that "opposition to Muslims" in Mumbai is completely fraudulent and meant only for show. Akin to the fraudulent opposition to Biharis leading to some showpiece lynching once in a while. Down on the ground there is cooperation between the Muslim mafia and their political/non political rivals.

The governments of Karnataka and Gujarat - both with sizable Muslim communities and BJP in power seem to be doing alright. There is IMO a serious mismanagement at the state and municipal government level in Mumbai.

shiv wrote:From Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ci ... population

Mumbai
Population 12,478,447
Population density per sq km 20,694

Delhi
Pop 12,565,901
Pop density per sqkm 29,149

Chennai
Pop 4,616,639
Pop density/sqkm 24,688

Kolkata
Pop 4,486,679
Pop density per sq km 24,252

How come the police of metros other than Mumbai are able to "reach out" to troublesome populations better than Mumbai? Mumbai actually has the lowest population density of the four and not even the highest population. It's not even the only port or the one with a high Muslim population. Mumbai is being mismanaged.

That is because it is an apples and oranges comparision, core Mumbai will have a higher density than Chennai, in Chennai and Kolkota we are considering only 178 and 185 KM, which must be only 10% of the Metropolitian area whereas in Mumbai we are considering 603KM which must include some less populated areas as well. If we see the core 200KM of SOuth Mumbai, the population density will probably be much higher.

Singha wrote:a guy with bomb in his turban killed 4 people in the funeral of hamid karzai's brother yesterday.

there could be people willing to even eat bombs and 'carry' them inside stomachs to kill a few more kafir.

Already done. One ALQ/turnaround guy had a device inside him when he went to meet KASA minister. It exploded in the waiting room as the minister was heldup in another meeting.

KLN Murthy stop Equating POTA with Rape, thats a P-Sec argument which does not stand water. It allowed certain Police intercepts and certain types of evidence which made the fight against Terror easier but was Politicised and has become a causualty.

Aditya_V wrote: That is because it is an apples and oranges comparision, core Mumbai will have a higher density than Chennai, in Chennai and Kolkota we are considering only 178 and 185 KM, which must be only 10% of the Metropolitian area whereas in Mumbai we are considering 603KM which must include some less populated areas as well. If we see the core 200KM of SOuth Mumbai, the population density will probably be much higher.

So that is the excuse for municipal and state governmental mismanagement in Mumbai?

More than Delhi, Kolkata or Chennai, attacking Mumbai is symbolic of attacking India. The Parliament attack was the closest outside of Mumbai.
Bengaluru with its IT-vity is another fast emerging symbol of a resurgent India.

Mumbai has the highest population density in the World amongst Metor's. I think the data in Wiki is incorrect. Kolkatta is 2nd Delhi 13th.

http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/la ... y-125.html

Also Delhi has more cars than Mumbai and Kolkata combined.

Having grown up in Poona - I was a big Mumbai fan. Trips to Mumbai and stays there were frequent and I was always filled with excitement and never failed to have a whale of a time. For that reason I devoured Suketu Mehta's book on Mumbai with fascination. So much of it seemed real and relevant. I gifted a copy to my brother and was surprised at his reaction. Mumbai was as much part of his early life as it was mine - but it continued to be his transit city for decades - even as he visited India from abroad. His reaction to Mumbai now is "I try to avoid the place if I can. i never want to go there again. Nothing is pleasant any more."

I still think Mumbai is still exciting - but it has been screwed. It is not a dying city, it still remains a powerhouse of wealth, but it's not shining any more. The romance of "Zara hat ke zara bach ke, yeh hai Bombay meri jaan" has been quashed by a bunch of dour and unimaginative political groups and their uneasy marriage with the mafia and their pseudo-anti-Muslim face while cooperation goes on at grassroots level.

Mumbai I shed a tear for you. You need healing. I wish I could help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6INOamqU7xs

Atleast get a dozen teeshirts printed with "I am a Mumabikar!" and wear one and give them out to your patients.

ramana wrote:Atleast get a dozen teeshirts printed with "I am a Mumabikar!" and wear one and give them out to your patients.

Maybe this one with "Mumbaikar" instead of "Indian"?
Kelik on image

Shiv, The explosive property is called brisance. ANFO has high brisance power just as other high explosives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance

Relative Effectiveness factor shows ANFO is 80% on TNT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_e ... ess_factor

Yeah that teeshirt will do too. However wont show the Mumbai spirit.

i am against a mumbai spirit - it needs to always be an indian spirit

ramana wrote:Shiv, The explosive property is called brisance. ANFO has high brisance power just as other high explosives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brisance

Relative Effectiveness factor shows ANFO is 80% on TNT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_e ... ess_factor

Thanks ramana - but what I had in my mind was a vague recollection of the velocity of explosive. The velocity of ANFO is about 63% of RDX. But yes ANFO looks pretty deadly as it is.