Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

[Prasad]

British immigration
You’re welcome

An open letter to the citizens of Bulgaria and Romania
http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/2 ... w_app_ipad

Read the comments too.

[Haresh]

Government accused of 'social engineering' over WW1 plans

The government is hit by another row over its plans for the First World War centenary, amid accusations it is "whitewashing" the contributions of Australians and New Zealanders, in favour of those of black and Asian servicemen

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/worl ... plans.html

Check the comments out as well.

[g.sarkar]

http://www.samachar.com/Operation-Blues ... fbdde.html
"British PM orders probe into Thatcher link to Operation Bluestar
PTI | Jan 14, 2014, 06.40 AM IST
LONDON: British Prime Minister David Cameron has directed his cabinet secretary to establish the facts behind claims that Margaret Thatcher's government may have helped Indira Gandhi plan Operation Bluestar in 1984.
Labour MP Tom Watson and Lord Indarjit Singh had demanded an explanation after recently declassified documents indicated that Britain's Special Air Service (SAS) officials had been dispatched to help India on the planning on the raid of the Golden Temple to flush out militants from the shrine, an operation left more than 1,000 people dead.
"These events led to a tragic loss of life and we understand the very legitimate concerns that these papers will raise. The Prime Minister has asked the cabinet secretary to look into this case urgently and establish the facts," a UK government spokesperson said in a statement issued here yesterday night.
"The PM and the foreign secretary were unaware of these papers prior to publication. Any requests today for advice from foreign governments are always evaluated carefully with full ministerial oversight and appropriate legal advice," he added.
The documents being referenced were released by the National Archives in London under the 30-year declassification rule as part of a series over the New Year.
A letter marked "top secret and personal" dated February 23, 1984, nearly four months before the incident in Amritsar, titled 'Sikh Community', reads: "The Indian authorities recently sought British advice over a plan to remove Sikh extremists from the Golden Temple in Amritsar........"
______________________________________________________________________
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01pqybl
"British involvement in Golden Temple raid?
Duration: 02:48
A Labour MP has told BBC Asian Network he has seen documents that show Margaret Thatcher's government assisted the Indian government in the controversial raid on the golden temple in Amritsar in 1984."

Gautam

[member_27987]

To UK based readers, has there been any critical commentary at all, in the UK media, about the recent jaunt of the Indian MLA's, to foreign countries? In India, many people see it as a shameless waste of public money.

Are the Brits upset and angry that their aid to India is being used to fund Indian politicians' excursions to Turkey and other places?

Or do the Brits just hyper-ventilate when India actually achieves something impressive, like a satellite launch, a missile launch or the activation of a nuclear reactor on board a submarine?

Why don't the ever caring and compassionate Brits spell out how much money India wastes in foreign trips, corruption, scams, import of luxury goods, and funds stashed away in Swiss banks. Doesn't India have other priorities besides these activities? That money could go to alleviate poverty.

1) The official government press releases are basically silent on everything India except when there is an actual interaction with India

2) BBC / Al-Guardian / Daily Rant are, as usual, condescending, demeaning and insulting to anything Indian. They simply cannot seem to digest positives from India. A good example of it is the recent coverage of Jaguar-Land Rover profits and Tata Motors

3) From my travels around, I have found a few things: Scots love India. They understand the differences between India and TSP (including Bangladesh). Joes in England whom I interact with in my day to day life seem to sympathise with many things in India. Well travelled Brits don't seem to hold the kind of pompous attitude that the ones that infest the Daily Mail newsroom and boards. Their perception of Hinduism is very skewed. I correct them when I can, but some of them are plain dumb and do not want to change.

All, of course, IMHO

[Philip]

Blue Star redux! But what is the point of it all? BWale and his Khalistanis were terrorists.Today both India and a number of countries cooperate in anti-terror intel and ops if required.The US too is supposedly sending experts to help the Russians with the Sochi Winter Olympics.Cameron's gambit seems to me an appeasement of the Khalistani terror outfits in the UK with an eye on the votebank! What hypocrisy.If he is genuinely concerned about Amritsar,he should reopen the secret files if any on the Jallianwallah Bagh massacre and other human rights atrocities that the British committed in India during the Raj.

Let's put the issue in proper perspective.What if St.Paul's Cathedral had been taken over by militants/terrorists demanding the immediate independence of Scotland? The Real IRA demanding that N.Ireland become part of the Republic? If a friendly nation sent ONE anti-terror advisor,what would that amount too? Last year,the cathedral was the focus of squatters,etc.,which took some time in their peaceful removal.It was a huge issue.This is a Cameron PR stunt to ingratiate himself with the Khalistanis and in the process he will lose huge support from patriotic Indians .Is there also a devious timing to this inquiry,just before an Indian general election?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/j ... attack-sas

Cameron orders inquiry into claims of British role in 1984 Amritsar attack

David Cameron has asked the cabinet secretary, Sir Jeremy Heywood, to conduct an urgent investigation into a decision by the government of Margaret Thatcher to send an SAS officer to Delhi in 1984 to advise the Indian government on the expulsion of militants from the Golden Temple in Amritsar.

Amid calls from Sikh groups for an inquiry into the alleged British involvement in planning the operation, the prime minister's spokesman said that the investigation would examine two issues: the British action in 1984 and the decision to release such a sensitive government papers.

Heywood will want to examine why the papers were not marked sensitive and held back when papers from 1984 were released under the annual 30-year-rule.

The prime minister intervened after the recent explosive release of papers from 1984 which showed that the then foreign secretary, Sir Geoffrey Howe, responded "favourably" to a request from Delhi for help in drawing up plans to launch a military operation to remove militants from the Golden Temple in Amritsar, the holiest site in the Sikh faith.

The Indian government said around 400 people were killed when the Indian prime minister, Indira Gandhi, sent troops into the temple in June 1984 in an operation that lasted six days.

The general who led the assault in the temple, Lieutenant General KS Brar, said on Tuesday the allegation the British government secretly helped Indira Gandhi plan the mission was "fictitious" and that "all the plans [for Operation Bluestar] were laid and executed by Indian military commanders".

"There was no question of getting help from the British government and no suggestion or mention at any stage of a British officer who had come and advised.

"It was a last-minute operation because the prime minister was negotiating with the Sikh leaders to arrive at an amicable solution. As a last resort, she ordered the operation," Brar told the Guardian.
David Cameron visiting the Golden Temple at Amritsar last year David Cameron visiting the Golden Temple at Amritsar last year. Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/PA

But Sikh groups, which have called for an inquiry into the British role in "one of the darkest episodes in Sikh history", put the death toll in the thousands, including many pilgrims.

Cameron's spokesman said that Heywood would conduct his enquiry as quickly as possible. "The cabinet secretary has been asked by the prime minister to look into what may have happened in 1984 with regard to papers that have been recently released. The prime minister has asked the cabinet secretary to lead an investigation on that subject. The important thing is to establish all the facts as quickly as possible. That work is underway."

The spokesman added: "The reasons behind it [the investigation] is that issues have been raised around the decisions both to release papers and also to consider the facts contained within the papers. So there are two aspects to it."

Downing Street acted after Stop Deportations published a letter, dated 23 February 1984, from Howe's private secretary, Brian Fall, to Hugh Taylor, his counterpart under the home secretary of the time, Leon Brittan. It warned about "the possibility of repercussions among the Sikh community in this country" over a possible military operation to remove from the Golden Temple Sikh militants, who had seized it several years earlier.

Fall wrote that India had sought British advice over a plan to remove the militants from the complex. "The foreign secretary decided to respond favourably to the Indian request and, with the prime minister's agreement, an SAD officer has visited India and drawn up a plan which has been approved by Mrs Gandhi," he wrote. "The foreign secretary believes that the Indian government may put the plan into operation shortly." The reference to SAD is understood to be a typographical error for SAS, which is referred to later in the letter.

Fall wrote that Britain's involvement in advising the Indian authorities should be kept secret to avoid inflaming tensions within the Indian community in Britain. He wrote: "We have impressed upon the Indians the need for security; and knowledge of the SAS officer's visit and of his plan has been tightly held in India and in London. The foreign secretary would be grateful if the contents of this letter could be very strictly limited to those who need to consider the possible domestic implications."

The other letter released is from Robin Butler, Thatcher's private secretary, who later became the cabinet secretary. On 6 February 1984 he wrote to Fall saying Thatcher was content for Howe to allow India to receive help, and that Brittan expected to be warned if India looked likely to go ahead with a raid. Butler wrote on 6 February 1984: "The prime minister is content that the foreign secretary should proceed as he proposes."

According to the Stop Deportations blog, three other letters in the sequence between Butler and Fall were not released, nor was any other file from after March that year.

The decision is likely to inflict severe damage on the government's relations with the Sikh community. Cameron reached out to Sikhs last year when he visited the Golden Temple last year and the nearby Jallianwala Bagh where he wrote of the "deeply shameful" Amritsar massacre of 1919 when at least 379 innocent Indians died after British troops opened fire.

The head of the Sikh Council UK, Gurmel Singh said he was "shocked and disappointed" at the idea the government of Margaret Thatcher may have been involved. The Labour MP Tom Watson, whose West Bromwich constituency is home to many Sikhs, has demanded that the Foreign Office release further papers about any British role.

Move comes after government papers appear to show SAS role in planning fatal Indian military attack on Golden Temple

[chaanakya]

Are they trying to rekindle the Khalistani fire?

[Singha]

Could be playing to some local khalistani gallery there for funds and votes.

[Singha]

Could be playing to some local khalistani gallery there for funds and votes.

if sas or martians came its their local issue and goi should be quiet. Whether anyone came to help or not India had to what it was forced to do.

[Jarita]

Why on earth would Indira G invite the SAS for the Golden Temple invasion

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/si ... 04010.html

Amritsar: Outraged Sikh organisations and leaders on Tuesday demanded a thorough probe into reports that the British government colluded with former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi over Operation Blue Star, when Indian security forces entered the holy Sikh shrine, the Golden Temple in 1984, to flush out militants.

[svinayak]

Why on earth would Indira G invite the SAS for the Golden Temple invasion

Every foriegn govt has assisted India in tracking all kinds of terr*ts

[sanjaykumar]

Amritsar: Outraged Sikh organisations and leaders on Tuesday demanded a thorough probe into reports that the British government colluded with former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi over Operation Blue Star, when Indian security forces entered the holy Sikh shrine, the Golden Temple in 1984, to flush out militants.

That's the funniest fcuking thing I have read this month.

[Jarita]

Why on earth would Indira G invite the SAS for the Golden Temple invasion

Every foriegn govt has assisted India in tracking all kinds of terr*ts

But why in India? the indian army should be enough

[JE Menon]

Britain supports Modi

[g.sarkar]

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/opera ... 140114.htm
Rediff.com » News » Operation Bluestar hero K S Brar trashes talk of UK help
Operation Bluestar hero K S Brar trashes talk of UK help
January 14, 2014 20:47 IST
Amid the raging row over claims that Margaret Thatcher's government had aided India in the Operation Bluestar to flush out militants from the Golden Temple in 1984, Lt Gen (Retd) K S Brar, who led the offensive, on Tuesday said it was planned and executed by Indian military commanders.
"I am quite dumbfounded because the operation was planned and executed by military commanders in India. There is no question...we never saw anyone from UK coming in here and telling us how to plan the operation," Brar told a TV news channel.
Maintaining that there was no involvement of British agencies in the operation that left over 1000 dead and led to revenge assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, he said the authenticity of the documents that have surfaced suggesting England's assistance should be checked.
"I am not a politician. I don't know what are the political motives of these letters coming out. I am a straightforward soldier and therefore cannot give any view besides the soldier's view.”
"I conducted the operation and no aid came in. This is the first time I am hearing all this. It is obviously some mischief at some stage or the other. There was no aid given to us, no advice given to us, there was no representative from the UK government who came and met us to help us plan the operation," the 79-year-old former general said........"
Gautam
PS Did not Khalistani outfits such as the Babbar Khalsa receive US (CIA?) finances through Pukeland?

[wig]

No hallmarks of ‘special ops’— Indian or foreign

While reports based on archival documents suggest that India sought help of the UK's Special Air Service (SAS), the actual conduct of Operation Bluestar in June 1984 had none of the hallmarks of a surgical stealth operation that special forces the world over are famous for.

Two letters dated February 6 and 23, 1984, written by Principal Private Secretary to the British Foreign Secretary and by the Principal Private Secretary to the then PM, Margaret Thatcher, have surfaced. They indicate that the UK collaborated with the Indian Government in planning military action in the Golden Temple. Reports suggest that at least three more letters, exchanged between the Indian and UK Governments and between UK officials, have not been declassified. Back home, except for the White Paper released by the Indian Government after the operation, no documents on the issue have been made public. Unless the complete set of documents on the issue are declassified, the questions raised by the documents will remain unanswered.

While the documents do prove that the military action was in the offing for some weeks, if not months, contrary to what the government and the military commanders made us believe, the moot question is: at what level, if at all, was the interaction of the British SAS with Indian officials?

The assaulting troops under Major General KS Brar (later Lt Gen), GOC of 9 Infantry Division, did include powerful detachments of 1 Para Commandos and Special Frontier Force (SFF), both Special Forces. However, both were used in frontal attacks, along with troops of other infantry battalions. While SFF was tasked to take the Akal Takht from the militants led by Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, the Para Commandos were to ensure this by wresting control of the structures around the Akal Takht, including the Darshani Deodi just in front of it.

There is no confirmation of SAS interaction having taken place at the operational military level. Lt Gen Brar has categorically refuted that UK's SAS had any role in the planning and conduct of the Operation, which was planned at the senior commanders’ level. In any case, he came into the picture only in end-May, 1984. Even officers of 1 Para and SFF deny any knowledge. Col Mahendra Pratap Choudhary, then Commanding Officer of SFF Group which was a part of the assault, said they had no contact with any foreign special forces outfit, including SAS. "The only foreign connection to our conduct were the specially designed Kevlar-plated bullet-proof helmets from Israel which were got on the eve of the Operation," he told The Tribune over the telephone.

Col Choudhary discounted suggestions that the gas canisters used by the SFF during the final phase of the Operation may have been provided by SAS, which uses "stun grenades". "We had been using these things even earlier," he added.

An officer of 1 Para Commandos said. "The CS gas canister cartridges were so indigenous that they had a marking "Made in Takenpur" with an expiry date of 1977!"

In fact, various reports had suggested that contingency plans had been made for an assault by the SFF in the weeks prior to the Operation on a model of the Golden Temple at its headquarters in Chakrata in Uttarakhand. Lt Gen Brar, too, makes a mention of this in his book, stating that this had been told to him by the commander of a sub-group of SFF during the operation. However, Col Choudhary denied that any such plan was made. SFF, which is also known as Establishment 22, is a para-military special force of India which was raised in 1962 for covert operations behind the Chinese lines in the event of a war. "Being a part of the Cabinet Secretariat, we were keeping a watch on the situation in Punjab and no more," he added.

Lt Gen PC Katoch (retd), who as a Major led a detachment of 1 Para Commandos into the Temple where he was wounded, also expressed surprise over reports of SAS advice to Indian Government. "The Special Group boys of SFF came to Amritsar at the last minute. Had they done reconnaissance on ground with or without SAS accompanying them, they would have not only been better prepared but also shared the information with us. Why would the Government of India contact SAS and not rely on its own Special Operations capability is beyond me," he said.

However, the documents which have now been declassified in UK do reinforce earlier reports that some senior officers of Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), which works under the Cabinet Secretariat, were in touch with the British counter-terrorism experts in the weeks prior to the operation and were regularly visiting UK. One such report had appeared in a prominent British newspaper on June 10, 1984. In fact, one of the two Indian intelligence officers named later became the Governor of a state.

Incidentally, three key figures, the then Army chief Gen AS Vaidya, Army Commander Gen K Sundarji and then Chief of Staff, Western Command, Lt Gen RS Dyal, are all now dead. Retired intelligence officers then posted in Punjab feel that what may have prompted the government to seek help of the UK counter-terrorism agencies was the fact that the political and law and order situation in Punjab was slipping from bad to worse from January 1984 onwards. "It looked like a cloak-and-dagger policy - to prepare for an assault and yet continue negotiations. The negotiations with Akali leaders in jail continued till one week before the operation," one of them said.

A senior intelligence officer said with the situation in Punjab deteriorating, they would often discuss the spectre of a bloody operation in the Golden Temple on the lines of the one in the Grand Mosque in Mecca in Saudi Arabia in 1979. Over 400 people had lost their lives and about 1,000 had been injured when Saudi National Security Guards and the Army had secured the Mecca mosque from armed occupiers.

He recalled that starting with December 31, 1983, a number of disturbing developments were noticeable. On New Year eve, Bhindranwale, while addressing the customary congregation at the Golden Temple, had talked of rejecting peaceful struggle. In the following week of January, there were indications of a confrontation building up between armed supporters of the two Sants - Harchand Singh Longowal, the dictator of the Akali Morcha and Bhindranwale, head of the Dam Dami Taksal. On January 27, 1984, the Akali Dal leaders sought amendment in Article 25 of the Constitution in order to press for separate identity of Sikhs and threatened to tear the "article". The Akali Dal also announced a "Panth Azad" agitation from April 2, if their demands were not met. While sporadic incidents of violence were reported almost daily from Punjab, on January 28, two railways stations were also burnt down in separate incidents in Sangrur and Mansa areas.

Irrespective of whether the advice tendered was accepted or not, at this juncture the very fact that the UK Government may have colluded in the military action is sure to raise hackles of a lot of Sikhs, especially those living abroad

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2014/20140115/main2.htm

[Karan M]

If the Indian side had any guile, they should have played up the role of the SAS. All the attempts to make this an India bad vs UK good argument that the Khalis do, would have flopped.

[Philip]

Britain 'backstabbed' Sikhs by advising India on 1984 Golden Temple raid
Britain betrayed us by advising Indira Gandhi on her fatal raid against militants barricaded in Amritsar's GoldenTemple, say Sikh leaders
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -raid.html

So now will we have a Khalistani fatwa against the Tory dispensation? Another can or worms opened by the Brits!

[Dilbu]

Britain supports Modi

Or this is only an opening salvo for something more sinister. I usually never trust UKstan (or its massa) on anything.

[JE Menon]

It was a joke Dilbu...

Pre-election Uncle and Aunty usually go into overdrive with this kind of crap in the hope (or expectation) that somehow or other it will influence towards an outcome they consider to be in their favour... And usually, they are about as accurate about the way in which incoming governments behave as the rest of us in India are.

Look at these Americans for example, how they went and cocked it up for absolutely nothing - basically, it appears the US was gamed by Sangeeta Richard and family... and whatever information they are going to provide, the Americans could probably have got over an informal dinner conversation or two, and will almost certainly become outdated in 2 months. And in the process they've alienated a country that could have been a genuine long-term friend. It's a setback. Not permanent, or even long-term, but a setback nevertheless - completely avoidable. Idiocy.

Look at their equally subservient media - hardly an even-handed observation to be found there. Mostly it is of the "India over-reacted" variety. One wonders how they would have reacted had the Indian police done exactly the same to one of their deputy consul generals - over an alleged payment dispute.

[Lalmohan]

the transcript actually says "an officer of SAD..." which is then reported as a typo and it was 'meant to be SAS'
will be interesting to see what the enquiry comes up with - probably the UK mil attache dropped by for whiskey with his father's old regiment and had a convivial chat with brother officers about how they might do it and some mid grade civil servant in whitehall spun the story for his own career enhancement...

[Anand K]

Bharat Karnad has entered the Harmandir Sahib

[Karan M]

Karnad's article is balanced, and one of the rare few which states IGs hand in the genesis of the entire issue and covers most of the points. However, it does not mention the state of affairs in Punjab at the time, which was literally at a boil and forced IGs hand (as much as she was responsible in it reaching that state).

[Anand K]

I wonder how Karnad is so sure that IG did indeed call up Ms. Thatcher and begged for help from the Great White Commando. He doesn't specify THAT does he?

Like,

With Sinha and the army brass wary about involving the Service in any such adventure, Indira looked to London — much as her father Jawaharlal Nehru had done after independence and right up to the Fifties when in a tight corner (such as accepting Mountbatten’s advice to take the Kashmir issue to the UN and about the best ways to spend the accumulated sterling balance in equipping the Indian military). In Thatcher, she discovered another “Iron Lady” and kindred soul who had successfully mounted a war to keep the Falklands Islands in the southern Atlantic as British territory. The Brit PM, in turn, would have instructed the SAS to go to New Delhi and suggest a plan of action to Indira.

... doesn't really specify. But if he is correct and the Briturd MP really got the documentation.... well, kinda embarrassing for the GoI and the Indian security establishment.

[munna]

... doesn't really specify. But if he is correct and the Briturd MP really got the documentation.... well, kinda embarrassing for the GoI and the Indian security establishment.

It is of no consequence to the GOI or the security establishment. However this disclosure has completely shattered the moral standpoint of some Khalis who were hell bent on laying the blame of violence solely at the doorsteps of the GOI. Wonder will they have the guts to sputter anything against the "Angrez".



Watch these fools holler against GOI, hope they do the same against HMG.

[chaanakya]

How does it matter to Indian establishment or security agencies?? If any, it is UK which should be worried about possible fallout. They are the "champions" of Human rights and Khalistanins. How their Govt agreed to collaborate with Indian agencies, if at all, is for them to answer. India achieved its target and that matters for us.

[Anand K]

I'm no fan of the Akalkhalistanis but if it is true that we sought help from..... of all the people the British...... then IMHO it doesn't reflect so good on us. It shows how the magnitude of the Golden temple problem, no matter who caused it. On that note IIRC, SS always used to say the Khalistani Movement was the biggest existential threat to India and the current Paki Pigs/Kashmiri/IMs doesn't come close to that.

Anyway, the question should be, WHY bring in the SAS Bwana? Tactical advice after a detailed study of plans/models of the Temple? Because of their greater capability/experience vis-a-vis Indian Special Forces?

Another possibility is they flew down someone who had a handle on Khalistani terrorists holed inside.... perhaps negotiate on the GoI's behalf? Or maybe an interlocutor for the other SAD/Panthic leaders trapped inside, on behalf of powerful Sikh leaders or their British well-wishers? Again, this extraordinary inclusion, if it ever happened, IMO points out to the desperation of our establishment.

Yet another possibility is the "Dad's Old regiment" theory from a few posts above. Quite possible, DDMitis and self-aggrandizing being a global phenomenon.

Ram Jaane.

[Singha]

How does it matter to Indian establishment or security agencies?? If any, it is UK which should be worried about possible fallout. They are the "champions" of Human rights and Khalistanins. How their Govt agreed to collaborate with Indian agencies, if at all, is for them to answer. India achieved its target and that matters for us.

yes I mentioned it a yesterday in a older post. its their problem and their local political issue. india did what it had to do, and the matter is long over for us. we dont need to probe deeper or ask for clarifications because its no skin off our nose for sure.

khujli will for khalistani supporters living in UK who can protest infront of whitehall all they want.

[Lalmohan]

it is very much a local british problem now and should be allowed to stew accordingly

[rohitvats]

Well, the Iran Embassy siege happened in 1980 and the world saw dramatic pics of SAS in action. And the successful rescue. That could have sent a brainwave through someone's head in terms of taking consultancy for such CQB scenario. If anyone could have come in touch with SAS, it would be the Special Group which operates directly under Cabinet Secretariat.

But the use of special forces was done in a very haphazard matter leading to high casualties. They were simply not given time to make appropriate plans but the restrictions put on them added their woes.

[Virupaksha]

Well, the Iran Embassy siege happened in 1980 and the world saw dramatic pics of SAS in action. And the successful rescue. That could have sent a brainwave through someone's head in terms of taking consultancy for such CQB scenario. If anyone could have come in touch with SAS, it would be the Special Group which operates directly under Cabinet Secretariat.

But the use of special forces was done in a very haphazard matter leading to high casualties. They were simply not given time to make appropriate plans but the restrictions put on them added their woes.

Most possibly it was on the likes of giving intelligence on a particular agent with ties to UK.

[Lalmohan]

SAD = shiromani akali dal?
could be a misreporting

[Anand K]

Blog: Margaret Thatcher's interest in aiding Operation Bluestar

[LakshO]

Why on earth would Indira G invite the SAS for the Golden Temple invasion

<hunch>Since terrorism was new to India in 1984, a cautious GoI wanted a second opinion on how to handle the situation. So, IG may have requested an "expert" in these things to come & have a look. Discreetly, of course. The "expert" may have adviced against any action to prevent precipitating matters. Weeks/months later, events may have forced GoI/IG's hands and the IA was called in to flush out the terrorists.</hunch>

But why in India? the indian army should be enough

Yes, true that the IA was capable enough to complete the task. But, in hind sight, it was not the best tool in the draw to complete the job (the draw did not have much in those days). These kinds of threats to the State were best handled by special forces. The biggest takeaway from Operation Bluestar was to raise special forces that can handle these in future. Those were the NSG/Black cats and they earned their spurs soon after in Operation Blackthunder II in May 1988.

[Philip]

Rohit has a point-about the Iranian embassy seige,SAS action etc. At that time the Brits were supposed to have developed some special munitions,also used in anti-hijacking ops.There may have been some enquiries about the same.But even sending just ONE individual to India as alleged does not indicate that the Brits played any role in the affair.
RK Dhawan interviewed today on TV said that he was well acquainted with the events of that operation and that no Brits were involved.In fact he blamed the babus around Mrs. G for misleading her about casualties and said that they told her that there would be no casualties and that she finally,reluctantly,after even Gen.Vaidya said much the same gave the OK to go in.When she heard of the loss of life on both sides and damage,she regretted her decision.

I distinctly remember that tragic period ,train stations set ablaze,Punjab appeared on the brink.BWale seizing the temple seemed to me a full Paki supported plot which either way would be tragic for the GOI,to go after BW enter the temple and wound Sikh sentiments,or not go into the temple and allow BW to become a magnet for extremists all over Punjab to converge upon Amritsar and cause utter mayhem while the rest of the nation begged for action.Funny how the Brits and Amritsar are entwined in controversy,the ghosts of Jallianwallah Bagh?

This letter at least shows that Mrs.T was fully behind India and its unity.The letter showed that she was completely behind India in the matter,would not allow misuse of Britain ...."not allow traditional freedoms abused...",police investigating anti-India statements,protection for Indian govt. personnel,premises,etc. Full txt of letter in link.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/intera ... l-document

Margaret Thatcher's letter to Indira Gandhi over Golden Temple raid – full document

Margaret Thatcher's letter to Indira Gandhi over Golden Temple raid – full document
Letter reveals former British prime minister's support for raid on Golden Temple in Amritsar, which left hundreds dead

[Hitesh]

This explains why Rajiv Gandhi didn't go too hard against Margaret Thatcher in the Commonwealth meeting back in the 80s when discussing sanctions against South Africa.

[Gerard]

Britain 'backstabbed' Sikhs by advising India on 1984 Golden Temple raid
Britain betrayed us by advising Indira Gandhi on her fatal raid against militants barricaded in Amritsar's GoldenTemple, say Sikh leaders
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -raid.html

So they are admitting that the UK nurtured separatism and encouraged the terrorists in Punjab?

[manjgu]

G.Parathasarthy explained the things very well. a) there was no SAS help in planning or execution of the operations. it was a IA show all the way and operations planned in haste b) some brit intel officers had indeed come ( quite possibly at behest of Mr Kao) to present their analysis of the situation which is a normal intelligence sharing practice as the Khalistanis were closely linked to UK for their funding. The brit intel officers actually advised indians against assaulting GT. c) NS and his brother SS and gen Zia were neck deep in fostering sikh militancy.

Dont quite understand what the hullabullo is about?

[Anand K]

G.Parathasarthy explained the things very well. a) there was no SAS help in planning or execution of the operations. it was a IA show all the way and operations planned in haste b) some brit intel officers had indeed come ( quite possibly at behest of Mr Kao) to present their analysis of the situation which is a normal intelligence sharing practice as the Khalistanis were closely linked to UK for their funding. The brit intel officers actually advised indians against assaulting GT. c) NS and his brother SS and gen Zia were neck deep in fostering sikh militancy.

Dont quite understand what the hullabullo is about?

AHA!
Wonder what we should have done, Oh Former Masters? Should we have waited for the Allied Gaul tribes to come and break out Sant Shri Vercingetorix from the double circumvallation of Amritsar-Alesia? Maybe let it fester a little more till the Vilayat can weigh in with sage advice and strong-arm tactics?
As BK also notes in the article I linked to previously, there were efforts to arouse the aam Sikh janata with some insidious propaganda and send multiple jathas to the Golden Temple and wreck havoc in the countryside. I remember stories of hundreds of tractors with bullhorns and PAS and cries of "The new Afghans are going to defile the Holiest of Holies. Save your Sant and your Panth!". Wonder why a horror like Op Woodrose was launched right after the immensely painful action like Bluestar? It was to flush out the fifth column and hardcore operators peppered all over the countryside. Too bad many innocents, Sikh innocents, were caught in the Woodrose crossfire.

[manjgu]

as per G.partha...even the indian govt was not in favour of attacking GT. but things got out of hand subsequently and IA had to go in. He said that maybe even IG was not aware of arrival of Brit intel officers. and surely RK Dhawan didnt know abt it as Kao reported directly to IG.

[Neshant]

Next time don't wait.

Just go in and get the job done.

Indecision under those circumstances is dangerous.