Bharat Rakshak

vic wrote:I want to point out that a Trial is a pretty long multiple year process....

Sirji,
Trials here do not take this long. This is not a complicated murder trial or white collar crime that needs long investigation.
Gautam
PS
"Theo, I think it is going to come down to Dr. DK's personal preference. I am not sure what I would do if I were to be in her shoes. Would I sacrifice my family or my country's honor? A heartbreaking choice anyway but lose."
Yes. Dr. K will face her accuser alone, flanked by just her lawyer. Then she has to respond to the judge who will ask her if she accepts the plea. Again, lets hope it will not come to that yet.

For Half-bright, Secretary of State under President Bill Clinton, the pinnacle of success in defense of human rights worldwide and one of US government's crowning glory was having forced the death of 500,000+ innocent children from starvation brought upon by sanctions imposed on Iraq by the US.

g.sarkar wrote:

vic wrote:I want to point out that a Trial is a pretty long multiple year process....

Sirji,
Trials here do not take this long. This is not a complicated murder trial or white collar crime that needs long investigation.
Gautam
PS
"Theo, I think it is going to come down to Dr. DK's personal preference. I am not sure what I would do if I were to be in her shoes. Would I sacrifice my family or my country's honor? A heartbreaking choice anyway but lose."
Yes. Dr. K will face her accuser alone, flanked by just her lawyer. Then she has to respond to the judge who will ask her if she accepts the plea. Again, lets hope it will not come to that yet.

Let me say, I am talking with pretty good knowledge of the subject. DK is not a six month old baby who will get frightened in Court. With adequate legal muscle power one force make even simple issues very complicated in trials. Incidentally, it seems that DK legal firm is pretty light weight, we need a way more powerful law firm behind her. Legal system is mix of old boys network, nepotism and golf partners.

IE has pulled this article..no doubt under some threat

In anticipation of shut down, US Embassy had disabled ACSA website days ago
Indian Express ‎- 1 day ago
With reports abounding that New Delhi was likely to further tighten screws as a fallout of the Devyani Khobragade incident, the US Embassy in ...

place even had a posh beauty parlor
http://www.geetanjalisalon.com/network/chanakyapuri.htm

the delhi wine club must have a lot of members there...
http://www.delhiwineclub.com/EVENTS/ACS ... Dinner.asp
http://www.delhiwineclub.com/EVENTS/ACS ... nner_2.asp
http://www.delhiwineclub.com/GALLERY/acsa.asp

How about this ASCA web site:
http://acsanewdelhi.aeaportal.com/

So the Delhi wine club has lots of ASCA members in it. I'm wondering if they get tax free booze and sell it to the Delhi wine club - it looks suspicious where US personnel may be engaged in a private liquor smuggling/business within India? Alcohol tax in the US varies by state, some states are very low and others up to 25% including sales tax. India has 100% tax on imported alcohol.

I'd be disappointed if MEA is thinking of booking foggy bottom diplomutts under some easily bailable excise laws. Non bailable sections of the IPC should be applied to these mutts and their lawyers and ass-is-tant secretaries should go scurrying around applying for bail.

Mort Walker wrote:How about this ASCA web site:
http://acsanewdelhi.aeaportal.com/

So the Delhi wine club has lots of ASCA members in it. I'm wondering if they get tax free booze and sell it to the Delhi wine club - it looks suspicious where US personnel may be engaged in a private liquor smuggling/business within India? Alcohol tax in the US varies by state, some states are very low and others up to 25% including sales tax. India has 100% tax on imported alcohol.

I am a member of the Bangalore Wine Club. I hasten to add, that it has no such connections to any consulate and we do not have any members from the gora class. In fact, some of our dinners get postponed because the wines from overseas get stuck at customs. And a fair percentage of our dinners have wines from Indian Wineries. (And Indian wines are bloody good, not for the Macaulayites though)

Having said that, what could be easily happening is that, the wines are imported by the US Embassy and then delivered for the Wine Club Dinners. In my opinion, if such is the case (pun unintended), it is a case (pun intended) for the Indian Customs to come down on them. Like an effing ton of bricks!

Now on the sale of liquor, my personal viewpoint is that yes, some of this liquor would be finding its way to us SDREs as bribes/gifts/or cheaper than booze shop prices!

^^^
Singha-saar, see the gallery of pics...
a lot of desi or NRI MUTUs with fake smiles and wine-glass in hand, thinking themselves a cut above the rest.....

drinking wine makes them MUTU...?

sorry, that's not what I meant...it was about that bar/club...

Kati wrote:^^^
Singha-saar, see the gallery of pics...
a lot of desi or NRI MUTUs with fake smiles and wine-glass in hand, thinking themselves a cut above the rest.....

The first line item on that list in the F&B says "outdoor catering". Does that mean duty free stuff like beluga caviar, Norwegian Pink Salmon finds it way outside the hallowed hollowed territory of the fast turning toothless Uncle Sam?

If true, time to throw the effing book at them and show them as the carpetbaggers they are!

rajanb,

Does anyone in desh actually drink wine? Most daaru shops carry whiskey, beer and rum though they may have sign board which says "wine shop". Even all of readily available Indian whiskeys have clear rum in them.

I wish I knew the US PX in dilli was selling tax free daaru. Would have picked up quite a bit as relatives and friends want daaru from the duty free shop at IGI as I arrive. Videsh daaru is a very potent bribe in many parts of India, more than money in some cases.

desi wine is very good and getting better
moet & chandon have just launched a made in india methode champagnoise labelled with their brand too

Didn't DK's husband write a book on desi wine?

^^^He bills himself as a "wine philosopher"

Looks like everyone's forgotten about DK and moved to the next thing to argue about.

Mort Walker wrote:How about this ASCA web site:
http://acsanewdelhi.aeaportal.com/

So the Delhi wine club has lots of ASCA members in it. I'm wondering if they get tax free booze and sell it to the Delhi wine club - it looks suspicious where US personnel may be engaged in a private liquor smuggling/business within India? Alcohol tax in the US varies by state, some states are very low and others up to 25% including sales tax. India has 100% tax on imported alcohol.

rajanb wrote:
Now on the sale of liquor, my personal viewpoint is that yes, some of this liquor would be finding its way to us SDREs as bribes/gifts/or cheaper than booze shop prices!

If this is true, it explains why the first target of the Bhaarath sarkaar was this issue. Thats means the sarkaar knew what was happening but allowed it to go on. So, its just liquor smuggling and then bribing.

----
The way amirkhans have run their wars in the past or even regime changes using See Eye A, it generally tactically brilliant but strategically stupid(bakis seem to have been trained by amirkhan in this art). And when the things get really messy, they just cut and run. Maybe their diplomatic dealings are also similar. They start off with a lot of bluster and tactical brilliance and end up with an egg on their face, riling up hostility unnecessarily by making enemies of neutrals and strategic stupidity. Then, they simply cut and run which means they start to behave as if it never happened.

Maybe they will behave in the same manner on this issue as well...

A more intelligent and responsible power/country would acknowledge if it made a mistake(because after all, anyone can make a mistake) and then rectify it. Initially, Obama's allure(during his campaigning) was that he was going to acknowledge any mistakes in amirkhan policy and rectify them(even apologize if need be). To his credit, it seems like he did try the soft approach but with wrong people like Saudis and Chinis. There were some softness towards Russia as well in the first term.

But, the tone seems to have hardened and back to GI Joe approach in the second term.

Very sad situation. Obama administration is to be blamed for this mess. He had appointed Kerry who is out right Paki apologist and Obama let this happen. He is turning out to be a very pathetic President

Mort Walker wrote:rajanb,

Does anyone in desh actually drink wine? Most daaru shops carry whiskey, beer and rum though they may have sign board which says "wine shop". Even all of readily available Indian whiskeys have clear rum in them.

I wish I knew the US PX in dilli was selling tax free daaru. Would have picked up quite a bit as relatives and friends want daaru from the duty free shop at IGI as I arrive. Videsh daaru is a very potent bribe in many parts of India, more than money in some cases.

You bet. wine sales are growing at 20% pa.

Mort Walker wrote:rajanb,

Does anyone in desh actually drink wine?

many do, but its expensive & to be had with dinner etc. regular tipplers managed with desi daru, and the best of the breed stand in antique armor & with broadsword in hand ready to defend the honor and dignity of the famed "old monk" against all pretenders

There is a huge racket in Delhi involving sale of embassy liquor though I don't have any idea if US Embassy is involved or not.

g.sarkar wrote: This was to be expected. In normal trials, the judge is paid by the state, the prosecutor is paid by the state and the public defender is paid by the state. All work hand in glove to come up with pleas that send blacks, Asian and Hispanics to long prison sentences. More backward the County, more disproportionate is the sentence. That is the reason the prisons are full of minorities quite disproportionate ratio from the population. In the case of Dr K, there is a private lawyer, but Preet Bharwa and the judge will still work hand in hand. They will pressurize Dr. K to plead guilty for a lenient sentence. They will paint a picture such as ten years if she goes for a jury trial. Some will remember the trial of OJ Simpson. He got away by using a group of very successful lawyers called the Dream Team. I hope the MEA has employed successful lawyers to defend Dr K. Otherwise expect a very one sided judgement.
Gautam

Here is where we need to learn a lesson or two from the Chinese.

1) We should constitute our own Worldwide Human Rights commission that publishes annual reports about how racial minorities are ill-treated in the U.S, how the jails are filled with them, how the system is biased against them (Treyvon Martin case), how felony-disenfranchisement is used to prevent blacks from voting etc.

2) We should similarly constitute a Worldwide Religious Rights commission that lambasts the U.S about how the country is 99% Christian, non-inclusive of other religions, how non-Christians are harassed like the Koran-burning incident, how pastors condemn Diwali as a celebration of darkness, how you cannot even get a Presidential nomination ticket if you don't swear by the bible, how bibles are present in all hotel rooms, how soldiers paint verses from the bible on bombs which they drop on Muslim children etc

3) A third report should be about International War Crimes, featuring prominently US initiated wars all around the world, the corresponding genocide, destruction of countries & the livelihoods of people, how the US has been at war for more than 90% of its existence, a prominent highlighting of war criminals like Kissinger, Bush & Obama etc

Throw these reports in the face of any American when he/she talks about our caste system

pankajs wrote:Same as Russian or China deal with US. We should arrest an American diplomat and grant him/her the experience of Indian SOP.
Here I agree with the US/SD in that I do not think arresting and fingering a couple of US diplomat in Delhi will have any impact in trade, etc.

The Russian deal matters because of Russias presence in Europe. The USA has numerous military commitments in EU and a single Russian move can cause a cascade of problems. Nothing similar is true of India. USA will probably let any diplomat India fingers to twist in the wind as the court of public opinion in USA goes to work on India. Indians don’t get this sort of hard ball.

Don’t forget we are still SDRE not blond blue eyed Teutonic. I can’t stress this enough. The optics will work against us.

The USA has to merely suspend issuing visa’s from India consulates for one week and all our Babu’ & their green card progeny will line up to ‘solve the issue’.
-------------------------------

There is no ‘India honor’ tied up in this. What Bunk! I’d use stronger language if I could.
DK should extricate herself and end the whole thing. USA DoJ can then go twist in the wind.
There is no way the DoJ will let her go if she tries to stay in USA or get a green card.
DK will have to pay one way or another for her actions and now for India responses as well.

the whole thing is like watching a train wreck in slow motion... and no one can stop it

Is this mea-culpa?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ind ... story.html

The State Department’s Office of Inspector General had pointed out in a 2005 report that the use of the commissary at the club by people other than U.S. diplomats must stop.
One American woman who used the club said it would be sorely missed if it were shut down or its activities limited.

“The biggest attraction is the swimming pool. What will we do in the summer?” she said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the diplomatic controversy. She said she also bought brands at the club that were difficult to find in India, for products such as whole-wheat flour and wine.

[quote=Prem Kumar]Here is where we need to learn a lesson or two from the Chinese.[/quote]
(added later: quote reference)

^^ To even start of with any of your suggestions (I incidentally had similar thoughts on publishing from an Indian Human Rights Watch), we need a GoI that is aware of the current western narrative of 3rd world-poverty-India-poor-unsafe-violent and prepared to counter it. Second, we need an equivalent to RT, or BBC, France24, etc., broadcasting news 24x7 worldwide. DD does not cut it, with its limited visibility. Thirdly, this will take a long time, if at all, to change the current western narrative. But, at least, we will have the means to share our thoughts and outlook.

Most importantly, fellow Indians need to increase awareness about this - most Indians I talk to don't believe me when I argue that the DK incident is not a simple law and order and is a calculated snub to us. They quickly fall into the trap of 'oh she violated the law', 'sarakari babus don't need maids', 'why does India need space program when there are so many poor', and other gems. Macaulay did a good job, and we have done a better job in carrying forward his ideas.

No one reads China's human rights report, but at least those in the know are aware that China will respond.

NDTV is on a lot of satellite and cable providers, but it is still for a domestic audience

pankajs wrote:U.S.-India dispute: A diplomat and a double-standard laid bare

[/u] India should restore full protection to the U.S. embassy and diplomats. This unnecessary conflict must be resolved quickly, or the real losers will be the citizens of the United States and India alike.

On the last highlighted part, the author is plain wrong. India should provide as much protection to the US diplomats as the US is willing to provide to Indian diplomats and this should not be based on some verbal understanding but on signed agreements between the governments.

This sir, is the problem with not responding with alacrity when an incident occurs. Had we quietly removed the barriers right after the parking lot change in DC, this would have gone under the scanner. At least, we would have had better control over the narrative. Now, no one realizes that this is in response to the earlier incident (heck, even I didn't believe it initially, and thought this was response to DK). Similarly, for APJ/MS/KB incidents, that would have prevented DK's.

I hope this serves as a lesson to MEA to not extend unreciprocated privileges to anyone in the future.

Kati wrote:Is this mea-culpa?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ind ... story.html

The State Department’s Office of Inspector General had pointed out in a 2005 report that the use of the commissary at the club by people other than U.S. diplomats must stop.
One American woman who used the club said it would be sorely missed if it were shut down or its activities limited.

“The biggest attraction is the swimming pool. What will we do in the summer?” she said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the diplomatic controversy. She said she also bought brands at the club that were difficult to find in India, for products such as whole-wheat flour and wine.

She can take the trouble of importing it herself, if she has a diplomatic passport. Not the swimming pool, ofcourse!

She is not a diplomat but uses the facilities and hence the gripe.

Most of the atta in India is whole wheat and wine is there from local producers with Napa and French expertise.
She should buy local and not be hung up on duty free largesse.

In a place like Dilli swarming with posh shops, these places probably existed to provide sasta stuff, ie US stuff at concessionary prices.

ramana wrote:She is not a diplomat but uses the facilities and hence the gripe.

Most of the atta in India is whole wheat and wine is there from local producers with Napa and French expertise.
She should buy local and not be hung up on duty free largesse.

She can probably get wheat and get it milled herself and it would still work out cheaper! What all these people cry about

These are all sideshows. Govt has not yet taken a singlereal step to resolve the issue on the basis of reciprocal relations. If this doesn't get solved the sword will be hanging on others in MEA. Of course by not taking immediate action MEA has postponed the inevitable i.e. to test he mantle of MEA and that of outgoing govt.

Many are suggesting US to stop visa to see babuz solve the problem .I say it would be welcome step as we don't want many useless MUTUs good for nothing.

ASCA seems to be a city within embassy providing all comforts to diplomutts and non diplomutts alike sparing them the pain of going outside for real world experience. Most likely these would be see eyeA recruiting grounds. School inside is another comfort. Once these are to be extended only on reciprocal basis. Stopping them does not mean we are reacting to DK issue. It is only sidestepping .

DK reciprocity would be either solve it or get one inside.

Lalmohan wrote:the whole thing is like watching a train wreck in slow motion... and no one can stop it

Stock up on popcorn.

Nnadu, What exactly is done by stocking up on popcorn?

Theo_Fidel wrote:Don’t forget we are still SDRE not blond blue eyed Teutonic. I can’t stress this enough. The optics will work against us.

The USA has to merely suspend issuing visa’s from India consulates for one week and all our Babu’ & their green card progeny will line up to ‘solve the issue’.

In my opinion that reveals perhaps your mentality rather than anything else. If the US takes the extremely stupid step of suspending visa issuance at the Delhi consulate, then it means the consular employees are not carrying out their functions. Why are they sitting in India if they are not busy stamping those visas. India should move into the US embassy ('sovereign US territory'), arrest them for disrupting services, and expel them if the suspension is not lifted.

Furthermore, India should suspend all travel services and visa status for the many thousands of US citizens present in India at any given time, who will not be allowed to leave the country. This can be done if the government and its employees have a spine. On Jan 4 I personally witnessed an American being interrogated harshly by two immigration officers at IGIA and not allowed to leave the country. The idiot had stayed in India beyond 6 months and failed to register himself with the police.

Meanwhile, visa-seeking Indians should learn to accept some 'hardship' in the event of such an occurrence. India will be better off retaining these people anyway.

Where is our Ram Narayan of India-US Friendship Forum?
He has been off the screen completely for the last two years; that means
the so called much vaunted "strategic dialogue" was abandoned two years ago?

KLP Dubey wrote:

Meanwhile, visa-seeking Indians should learn to accept some 'hardship' in the event of such an occurrence. India will be better off retaining these people anyway.

Well said.

firstpost is saying india postpones meeting.

hundi is saying "US puts off meeting".

ramana, It was a flippant remark, and I apologize if you feel it doesn't meet the seriousness of the issue.

However, it was also prompted by a feeling I've had for a while that irrespective of how the individual case of DK proceeds or is settled, the long term effects of India insisting on reciprocity with the US on consular relations is what is more important. So, if Foggy Bottom wrecks the train, then so be it.