Terror Attacks in Mumbai - IV

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 07 Dec 2008 21:08

chillax dudes and dudettes:

i am 400% sure that pakistan is heading towards 3rd partition
(2nd happened in 1971) after 2 weeks of anger i can see the following very clearly.

india / usa have a long term plan to snuff the oxygen
out of paki military and then repo the nukes then redraw
the boundries by respecting the rights of ethnic minorities

only two conditions to make it happen are:

- afghanistan is rid of taliban (then paki whore is not needed by usa),

- afghanistan is a stable democracy supported by india / usa.

after which baluchistan, sindhistan, pakjabistan will be added to UN list of emerging democracies. (waziristan and north waste funkier province will be merged into afghanistan)

lets start designing the flags of the new countries. i am already looking to set up chain of udupi restaurants in those
places.

they need new tv stations, new restaurants, new movie theatres, new malls, new schools, everything.

opportunities galore!

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 07 Dec 2008 21:10

Rye wrote:The Russians are more intent on causing NATO pain, since they are intruding in Russia's backyard. A war with pakistan will help NATO, and the pakis are looking for their next paying customer. They have calculated that Russia has use for their ability to create chaos within Paki territory. Their ability to foil NATO is an asset to Russia.

Does Bear have short memory? The humiliating defeat that destroyed the CCCP was caused in part by Pakis facilitating the Pathans.
Confusing signals from Bear to India... They are ready to sell us Uranium, Reactors and Arms, but they don't want it's enemy to be destroyed.
Is it a charade to extract more honey from India?

Only definite thing is that Bear is in conversation with Pakis, probably thru dragon.
It also confirms that US is out to implement its Greater Middle East plan.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 07 Dec 2008 21:11

chain of udupi restaurants

BTW, has anyone seen pictures of the "bombs" recovered by the Kerala Police from the "Yindoo terrorists" in Kannore District? Must be my yearning for Udipi food, but those looked EXACTLY like idlis.

archan · Post by **archan** » 07 Dec 2008 21:13

LoL. Talk about jumping the gun. Like they say in Punjabi, "Thand rakh". Wait/hope for the Indian establishment to actually get aggressive instead of just reactionary. Nothing is gonna happen until then IMO.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 07 Dec 2008 21:14

I only mean Pakistan's ability to be a PITA is useful to Russia -- not Pakistan itself. Pakistan is not useful to any country in a constructive way.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 07 Dec 2008 21:16

kobe, in 1971, Mrs IG had balls,
Now in Delhi we have imported leader who does not have balls
Thats a huge difference

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 07 Dec 2008 21:25

More Than 160 U.S. and NATO Vehicles Burned in Pakistan

milindc · Post by **milindc** » 07 Dec 2008 21:46

Image of burned Humvees from Fox News. Hopefully they are replaying this every hour. What say you, Mr. O'Reilly. ?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 07 Dec 2008 21:59

its all about getting unkil out of afghanistan, mumbai was just 'collateral damage'
the hamid gul thing is interesting... love to see how it evolves
meanwhile, what happens wonce the 48 ghanta has dhung dhung?

Ujjal · Post by **Ujjal** » 07 Dec 2008 22:09

EDIT : Re-post

To all the "flase-flag" nutcases, Alex-Jones retards and Pig lurkers, here you go -

Mumbai terrorist came from Pakistan, local villagers confirm

* Saeed Shah in Faridkot, near Depalpur
* The Observer, Sunday December 7 2008
* Article history

An Observer investigation has established that the lone surviving gunman caught by Indian police during last week's terrorist attacks on Mumbai came from a village in the Okara district of the Pakistani Punjab.

Ajmal Amir Kasab, interrogated in custody after last month's attacks, which killed 163 people, reportedly told Indian security officials that he came from a place called Faridkot in the Punjab province. His father was named as Mohammed Amir, married to a woman named Noor. During the past week, Pakistani sources have cast doubt on the authenticity of the leaked information, which has had a predictably explosive impact on relations between the two countries.

The Observer has obtained electoral lists for Faridkot showing 478 registered voters, including a Mohammed Amir, married to Noor Elahi. Amir's and Noor's national identity card numbers have also been obtained. At the address identified in the list, a man identifying himself as Sultan said he was the father-in-law of Mohammed Amir.

A villager, who cannot be named for his own protection, said the village was an active recruiting ground for the banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba. 'We know that boy [caught in Mumbai] is from Faridkot,' he said. 'We knew from the first night [of the attack]. They brainwash our youth about jihad, there are people who do it in this village. It is so wrong,' he added.

According to the villager and other locals, Ajmal has not lived in Faridkot for about four years but would return to see his family once a year and frequently talked of freeing Kashmir from Indian rule.

The truth about Ajmal's origins are key to the ongoing investigation of where the attackers came from and will have a profound impact on relations between India and Pakistan. Islamabad has repeatedly said that no proof has been provided to back Indian accusations that all the gunmen came from Pakistan. The terrorist outrage has pushed the two nuclear-armed countries to the brink of confrontation but, until now, there had been no solid evidence that any of the militants were from Pakistan.

On Friday, police arrested two Indian men accused of illegally buying mobile phone cards used by the gunmen in the Mumbai attacks, in the first known arrests since the bloody siege ended. Security officials demanded the release of one of them, Mukhtar Ahmed, yesterday, claiming he was a counter-insurgency police officer who may have been on an undercover mission.

Police said another Indian citizen, Faheem Ansari, who was arrested in February in northern India carrying sketches of hotels, the train terminus and other sites that were later attacked, was being brought to Mumbai for renewed questioning.

Rakesh Maria, a senior Mumbai police officer, said he believed there was a connection between Ansari and the Mumbai attacks. 'Ansari was trained by Lashkar and sent to do reconnaissance,' Maria said.

One of the arrested men, Tauseef Rahman, allegedly bought Sim cards by providing fake documents, including identification cards of dead people, senior police official Rajeev Kumar said yesterday in the eastern city of Calcutta. Rahman, of West Bengal state, later sold them to Ahmed, Kumar said. Both men were arrested on Friday and charged with fraud and conspiracy.

Police said they were still investigating how the 10 gunmen obtained the Sim cards. Most large Indian cities, including Calcutta, where the Sim cards were purchased, have thriving black markets for Sim cards and cheap phones.

Ahmed was from the Indian portion of Kashmir, the disputed Himalayan region at the root of much of the tension between India and Pakistan, Kumar said. According to an unnamed police official in Srinagar, Kashmir's biggest city, Ahmed was a local police officer.

Raj Malhotra · Post by **Raj Malhotra** » 07 Dec 2008 22:13

Such Russian statements and burning of trucks indicates a slow but tetonic change in Regional power arrangemnts, Russia may cut a deal with Pakistan to keep NATO on slow burn which will keep Pakistan western aid flowing while the Region slowly falls back into Russian grip

milindc wrote:
Vipul wrote:What the **** are Russians upto? Seems they are still not out of the of the high price oil intoxication.

Cautioning against a unilateral Indian military strike against Pakistan, Russia on Saturday said New Delhi should seek the support of the international community and present its case to the UN after collecting "concrete evidence" of the complicity of elements in Pakistan in the Mumbai attacks.
Pakis and the Bear are having conversations.
* Russians were let go during the killing spree
* Russians knows about the US plans

But why save Pakis

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Dec 2008 22:16

Amber G. wrote:More Than 160 U.S. and NATO Vehicles Burned in Pakistan

Every time we talk to the Pakis and think they have it right and we can trust them, they do something that disproves us all.

Time has come for an "international" force to take over that entire region, starting with a corridor.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 07 Dec 2008 22:23

Oh, now the Russians have advice to dole out too, eh? Chicom has her NSG. US has her own compulsions. Note that all of them act whenever they please (Russia did not involve the US in Georgia).

At the very least India needs to declare a state of emmergency and clean up. I think India missed her great chance during this attack.

The more I think, the more I seem to be convinced the problem is at home.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 07 Dec 2008 22:35

Absolutely the problem is home front.
No sense of honor in leadership, nor sense of duty in people to go the PMs house and start Hunger strike.
We need a cindy sheenan to bring the suffering to the Rajmata

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 Dec 2008 23:05

Lalmohan wrote:its all about getting unkil out of afghanistan, mumbai was just 'collateral damage'
the hamid gul thing is interesting... love to see how it evolves
meanwhile, what happens wonce the 48 ghanta has dhung dhung?

I wanted to write a post on these lines and some one has already written.

I am extremely convinced the Mumbai attack is actually a panga with US and nothing to do with India. period. All the connected dots are pointing to this angle. They wanted to use attacks on India that includes future nuke attack as colleteral damage and nothing else. The bigger beards (Talibs), the shorter beards (TSPA) and GOP are all together in this game changer of Afghan conflict.

We have to see how US will respond and the end game of this episode.

munna · Post by **munna** » 07 Dec 2008 23:23

I would highly recommend the forumites to read the strategy used by Sikh court of Lahore to finish off the Sikh commonwealth army by forcing it into a conflict with British forces. The Sikh army was an overwhelming force in the Lahore Kingdom and was the primary factor stopping the courtiers from surrendering the state to the British. The army was instigated to fight and be defeated by the British thus paving the way for the corrupt generals and ministers to do their own things. I wonder IF pak army is being led down the same garden path in an implicit agreement between USA, Zardari and India. No need to taunt the Mardanagi bit for our leadership even BD war of 1971 took some time to materialize. Let us have patience.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Dec 2008 23:34

Amber G. wrote:More Than 160 U.S. and NATO Vehicles Burned in Pakistan

Shouldnt eh headline say destroyed by 'militants'. burned implies there could be spontaneous combustion.
Is NYT also supporting terrorists?

venkat_r · Post by **venkat_r** » 07 Dec 2008 23:38

US would never risk its boots in Pakistan, Even India is in no position to do that. Either we bomb from up above or outsource the fight to some group in Pakistan.

This is going to be the US strategy and it has to be Indian strategy also for some time. All the pressure that is being brought out is good, as Paskistani civilian leadership (toothless ofcourse) but would be asked to do the bidding of US and India against Pakistani Army. The pressure would mean that Civilian leadership is not going to wait till the Kashmir is resolved to act.

enqyoob · Post by **enqyoob** » 07 Dec 2008 23:43

My take is that the Russians are enjoying the spectacle, and NATO's discomfiture. If the US/NATO "prevent" India from doing the needed jhapad, then Russia comes out looking much better, in India and outside, as the only power that treats terrorists as they should be treated.

The terrorists letting Russians go, is the CLEAREST indication that they were acting under orders of the PAKISTAN GOVERNMENT AND ARMY, not any "Al Qaida". The Pakis know that messing with Russians can be very hazardous to the health. In 1980 the US discouraged them from finishing off TSP, but today they would be glad to have an excuse, any excuse.

The Russians didn't oppose Indian action, they just said: "Hey, show this to the UN, we want to join the party too".

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 07 Dec 2008 23:52

ramana wrote:
Amber G. wrote:More Than 160 U.S. and NATO Vehicles Burned in Pakistan
Shouldnt eh headline say destroyed by 'militants'. burned implies there could be spontaneous combustion.
Is NYT also supporting terrorists?

thou mean miscreants?

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 07 Dec 2008 23:58

Has any follow-up action happened regardiung the relatively low-hanging fruit post Mumbai attcks?

Media regulations and code-of-conduct, new gear and training to police forces, heck even the FIA announced seems nebulous. NSG to be stationed in major metros.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2008 00:03

Ramana - Even more peculiar was the last paragraph of the story which was something like (paraphrasing from memory):
"Recent Mumbai events in which India blames separatist from disputed state of Kasmir which is raising tension between two nations and hampering and diverting Pakistan's efforts to fight terrorism [in western front] "

No I am not making that up.(Little mention of the carnage. no mention that they are being 'blamed" not only by India but others etc ... and the tone was "only if those yidoos will not unnecessary blame others") .. looks like that paragraph is no longer in NY Times story. I am sure, somebody must have told NYtimes how ridiculous that para looked, but was still pleasantly surprised that that para is gone now!! (or I am missing it..)

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 08 Dec 2008 00:07

Muppalla wrote:I am extremely convinced the Mumbai attack is actually a panga with US and nothing to do with India. period. All the connected dots are pointing to this angle. They wanted to use attacks on India that includes future nuke attack as colleteral damage and nothing else. The bigger beards (Talibs), the shorter beards (TSPA) and GOP are all together in this game changer of Afghan conflict.

We have to see how US will respond and the end game of this episode.

Very very incisive muppalla. My thoughts exactly - there had to be a WMD angle and a message sending angle to this whole affair.
Please elaborate further.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Dec 2008 00:07

Amberji, So to use Shiv's reasoning the destruction of those trucks is a sample of what happens to US/NATO transport convoys if the TSPA moves East due to tensions after Mumbai terrorist attack. These guys don't want to die with honor. They leave no option but to use koota yuddha.

kobe · Post by **kobe** » 08 Dec 2008 00:08

for those conspiracy theorists claiming that russia will collude with pakistan to punish NATO.

I had to dig this up for you and think if russians will ever trust paki / islamists /madrassa mullahs who have trained chechnya terrorists on suicide missions

(AP) A French reporter who questioned the Kremlin's war in Chechnya provoked an angry outburst from Russian President Vladimir Putin, who challenged him to convert to Islam and come to Moscow for circumcision.

During a post-European Union summit news conference, Putin also said Chechen rebels want to kill all non-Muslims and establish an Islamic state in Russia. (sound familiar?)

Putin became agitated Monday after a reporter from the French newspaper Le Monde questioned his troops' use of heavy weapons against civilians in the war in Chechnya. Chechnya is predominantly Muslim.

"If you want to become an Islamic radical and have yourself circumcised, I invite you to come to Moscow," Putin said.

"I would recommend that he who does the surgery does it so you'll have nothing growing back, afterward," he added. Circumcision is a tenet of Islam for all males.

reference:
putin's remarks

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Dec 2008 00:16

Muppalla wrote:I wanted to write a post on these lines and some one has already written.

I am extremely convinced the Mumbai attack is actually a panga with US and nothing to do with India. period. All the connected dots are pointing to this angle. They wanted to use attacks on India that includes future nuke attack as colleteral damage and nothing else. The bigger beards (Talibs), the shorter beards (TSPA) and GOP are all together in this game changer of Afghan conflict.

We have to see how US will respond and the end game of this episode.

Mumbai has everything to do with India and is a part of the puzzle. Pakis hate Indians more than they hate unkil. Paki army wont stand by idly while the talibunnies acquire these kind of capabilities *and* fight against the army.

Maybe a new agreement with Talibunnies by Paki Army. Paki Army rules bakistan, talibunnies and fundoos get to take over India and stop fighting paki army in paki territory. In return they get training, protection, domestic and international fundraising. Think talibunny, Al-Q relationship.

This whole "Baitullah is a patriot" nonsense that is coming out points in that direction.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Dec 2008 00:22

munna wrote:I would highly recommend the forumites to read the strategy used by Sikh court of Lahore to finish off the Sikh commonwealth army by forcing it into a conflict with British forces.

This has been done by the pakis before. Think ZAB and Yahya. The only question is who is instigating who to fight to get a jhappad. The civvies instigating the army to fight or the army instigating the civvies to fight ?

As a background, I personally believe that Mushy had political ambitions all along. Kargil was planned with one of two objectives.
A. The paki army succeeds in which case mushy takes all the credit and turns his popularity into political power
B. The paki army fails in which case mushy blames the civvies, convinces his buddies that the army has to take over to protect their H&D and takes over.

I dont for a second believe "the airplane didnt land, I have been thrust in the line of phyrr to protect bakistan so have to take over" line from mushy. So the strategy of getting into a fight to finish off the other side, has been used by the bakis atleast once, most probably twice.

The whole Mumbai thing might be the army protecting its turf by showing how week kneed the civvies are.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2008 00:26

Just watched F. Zakaria on CNN/GPS , worth watching if you can see transcripts/video on web.

munna · Post by **munna** » 08 Dec 2008 00:34

lakshmic wrote:
munna wrote:I would highly recommend the forumites to read the strategy used by Sikh court of Lahore to finish off the Sikh commonwealth army by forcing it into a conflict with British forces.
The whole Mumbai thing might be the army protecting its turf by showing how week kneed the civvies are.

Exactly Lakshmic, the civvies know that if they side with TSPA they are toast and if they side with YYY (Yindoo, yahudi yamrika alliance) they are burnt toasts. There only hope of survival is to somehow get a massive H&D loss or jhapad delivered on the TSPA face. The TSPA is desperate to avoid that and will do all sort of things to get civvies damaged. In short a perfect power struggle that is waiting to be exploited!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 08 Dec 2008 00:36

Rye wrote:The Russians are more intent on causing NATO pain, since they are intruding in Russia's backyard. A war with pakistan will help NATO, and the pakis are looking for their next paying customer. They have calculated that Russia has use for their ability to create chaos within Paki territory. Their ability to foil NATO is an asset to Russia.

The mood in Russia is against NATO. USA saw to it that Soviet Union sinks in the mountains of Afghanistan. Now Russia wants to ensure that NATO is buried in the same cemetery as the Soviet Union.

India picks the bill for the funeral.

The Chinese Lobby in Russia is spreading out. India has lost a very valuable lobby. I think the Russians must have been disgusted to see how Shivshanker Menon was rushed to Washington to brief the two Administrations. The more weakness we Indians show in this regard (TSP), the more contempt we will have to face.

India needs to show sooner rather than later, that the Indian Subcontinent is the INDIAN Subcontinent, and if you want anything done in this region of the world, you should know who to turn to.

After our investigation is finished, and we the ultimatum to Pakistan has run out, then we should attack the places in TSP mentioned by narayanan.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 08 Dec 2008 00:51

Can we consider putting some biological elements in the rivers that flow into pukiland ? not some deadly agents, some which could cause genetic disaster , and check the womb terror ? we can take help from discovery channel ... winning the war without firing a shot ...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Dec 2008 00:56

durgesh, there is no such thing exists nor plausible. one definitely hurt them by dumping dead pigs, pork and ham industry wastes. you don't need military or Indian govt to do this. You can pick or hire a few people to do this, videograph them, and youtube it., especially hightlighting what they are drinking.

but, they would counter by killing more cows [big deal, as if they don't normally]. i still think we should do this., and only say, it we have being doing this for years now.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 08 Dec 2008 01:01

The Chinese Lobby in Russia is spreading out. India has lost a very valuable lobby. I think the Russians must have been disgusted to see how Shivshanker Menon was rushed to Washington to brief the two Administrations. The more weakness we Indians show in this regard (TSP), the more contempt we will have to face.

RA,

Russia ain't the USSR. Russia wasn't willing to break the NSG to support India despite the Georgia crisis boiling over. No doubt the China lobby is active in Russia, much as it is in Dilli. Dilli's weakness is there for the whole world to see. Only hope is that the said weakness be restricted only to this governing dispensation and that the next set of polls produce a more hardline ruling coalition that will be less willing to take jhapads and might actually proactively stoke some fires in TSP to achieve desired aims. Sadly, the decision making paralysis likely might be systemic to a large extent and there maybe no getting around that.

JMTPs onlee.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 08 Dec 2008 01:16

Saik , there are plenty of water borne diseases , virus that thrive in water , we just need to put them in water . Putting dead pigs or their bones is not a viable idea. They donot hate pigs as much as we think . Forget ordinary muslims, even arab Sheikhs eat pork.I have seen many south indian(keralite) hindus eating beef . Religion is a personal thing.You believe some and you disbelieve some part of it.
I saw on discovery , many american kids dying of drinking a pond water in which there was some horse $**t.it contains deadly bacteria/virus . There are so many things that can be done.

p_saggu · Post by **p_saggu** » 08 Dec 2008 01:16

Cross post:

Has anyone noticed that the videshi media has changed tone and tenor in these past 24 hours into a decisively foreboding premonition against Pakistan? Suddenly, there are dire warnings emnating from the Unlikeliest of entities - the CNNs, the BBCs of the world sense blood.

Desi Dork Media as usual the dhimmis that they are haven't yet caught on, they will probably by tomorrow morning's news bulliteins. Then the fun will begin - 'India issues a stark Warning to Pakistan' and the sort.

And the Pakistanis, for all their tactical brilliance, Kiyani warned Condi that Pakistan is indispensable for the US in Afghanistan, and less than 24 hours later he orders the torching off of the NATO supply base. The turning point might already have been crossed.

Bad bad news for pakistan...

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2008 01:24

Fox news says that sky news said that Wajid Shamsul Hassan, Paki High Commissioner in London oinked that 'India Was Ready to Strike Pakistan' . And the "The senior diplomat alerted the Pakistani government and President Asif Ali Zardari to the threat." which in turn " urgently contacted high level British and American officials who intervened to calm the situation." ...

On the day of the Mumbai attacks, I got some information in London that India was going to act very drastically against Pakistan in retaliation to what happened," Hassan told Sky News.

...

Also mentioned in the report:

An Indian intelligence report seen by The Sunday Times claims the 10 terrorist commandos involved in the Mumbai attacks were among 500 trained to elite standards by Pakistan army and navy instructors.

Details were leaked as Indian officials accused Pakistan’s powerful Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) of directly supporting the attack. They claimed to have the names of the gunmen’s ISI trainers and handlers and to have intercepted internet phone calls between them, the Times reported.

The Indian intelligence report claims the Mumbai gunmen were among a large group of volunteer “fedayeen” trained in commando tactics by Pakistan army and navy instructors over 18 months from December 2006.

“The training of these 500 men was in three phases. The first was basic physical fitness and firearms training. The second was marine navigation and swimming. The third involved training to sabotage underwater installations such as oil rigs, ships and submarines,” one official said.

“They were trained to a level of U.S. Seals or Pakistani marine commandos. They were elite. Ten of these men were the ones who attacked Mumbai.”

Luxtor · Post by **Luxtor** » 08 Dec 2008 01:25

milindc wrote:

Image of burned Humvees from Fox News. Hopefully they are replaying this every hour. What say you, Mr. O'Reilly. ?

Ahhh!, this indeed looks like a destruction caused by "short circuit in air vacuum"

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 08 Dec 2008 01:29

if russia is taking pig's side then the pig's days are definitely over.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Dec 2008 01:42

There was a news blip, now alos in TOI, sorry if already posted.
Pakistan cracks down on LeT camp

SLAMABAD: Pakistani security forces took over a camp used by Lashkar-e-Taiba militants in Pakistani Kashmir on Sunday, a witness and an official from a charity linked to Lashkar said.

"This happened this afternoon, security forces took over the camp," said an official with Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity.

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 08 Dec 2008 01:48

Amber G. wrote:There was a news blip, now alos in TOI, sorry if already posted.
Pakistan cracks down on LeT camp
SLAMABAD: Pakistani security forces took over a camp used by Lashkar-e-Taiba militants in Pakistani Kashmir on Sunday, a witness and an official from a charity linked to Lashkar said.

"This happened this afternoon, security forces took over the camp," said an official with Jamaat-ud-Dawa charity.

who took over whom? isnt Let == Security Forces == ISI?