Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 21, 2010

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jun 2010 07:27

A lot of WKK wax eloquent about how Abdus Salam should have been accommodated at BARC. When the guy is a fundoo if different hue it doesn't matter.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jun 2010 08:10

A_Gupta wrote:http://www.agrihunt.com/livestock.php

More statistics. It contains the statement
Various studies indicates that per capita meat availability (kg/annum/head) has decreased from 16.26 in 1994 to 14.30 in 2003, which is far below the normal requirement of healthy individual, 28 kg/head/year (Bilal, 2004).
Not clear - production and stocks both appear to be growing faster than population, but per capita availability is down?

The FAO has to employ Pakis to give them the figures. So we need to think if FAO figures are off. If production and stocks are high, the owners are making losses if they are selling at high prices - beyond the reach of the average consumer. Unsold goats need to be fed and they will still die of old age. Either meat prices are not as high as advertised, or meat availability is not as high as advertised.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 08 Jun 2010 08:13

Sorry if posted before

Ex-major's loyalties embody Pakistan's jihad woes

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... QD9G5SGN80

The case of Ahsanul Haq shines a light on a murky side of the militancy infecting Pakistan: the extent to which retired members of the security agencies allegedly support or tolerate Islamist militants they once nurtured for foreign policy aims.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Jun 2010 08:21

Pak-EU talks meet failure

BRUSSELS: A Pakistani national member in UK parliament and the head of Friends of Pakistan (FoP) in UK parliament Sajjad Karim has said the talks held between Pakistan and European Union (EU) have failed to meet expectations, Geo news reported.

Talking to Geo news in Brussels, he said I am very sorry to unveil that Pakistan has failed on many fronts during dialogue with EU because of poor homework and owing to failure in meeting responsibilities.

Holding Pakistani delegation responsible for failure of talks, Sajjad said such meetings need months of preparations or even a complete year’s homework but Pakistani delegates had made preparations hurriedly in a day or a week for such important event.

No sincere efforts were seen for the talks from Pakistani side, which led to failure besides this, neither did Pakistan complete homework to effectively work with European ministers, members European parliament and nor did Pak-EU ties extend any help in this wake, he added

Watch how the spin-meisters in porkiland try the "the west is biased and out to get us because we are pious muslims" strategy.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 08 Jun 2010 08:30

ramana wrote:A lot of WKK wax eloquent about how Abdus Salam should have been accommodated at BARC. When the guy is a fundoo if different hue it doesn't matter.

Why do you say he was a fundoo?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Jun 2010 08:35

US seeks to build trade with Pakistan

Working on the premise that economic growth and political stability are inextricably linked, U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan Anne W. Patterson will lead a delegation of Pakistani business leaders to the U.S. this week to showcase the country's investment opportunities as part of a widening engagement between the two countries.

She will be partnered in this initiative by Pakistan's Minister of State for Investment Saleem H. Mandviwalla. This is the third delegation of Pakistani business leaders visiting the U.S. since April 2009 {and yet, no investments ?} as part of the Pakistan Business Ambassadors Programme.

The US is under wrong illusions if it seriously thinks that trade can lead to disappearance of terrorism emanating from Pakistani soil. Pakistani terrorism has its roots in ideology. Pakistani terrorists are not only from the poor strata of the society but also from the middle and upper-middle class of well educated people. They are also from the Pakistani disapora well settled in various corners of the world. Pakistan has to be disabused of its ideological frenzy. Having deliberately nurtured it, the political class of Pakistan has neither power nor a desire to get rid of it because it pays them dividends. It is therefore that the world has a huge problem with Pakistan. We, in India, are the immediate and huge sufferers of the Pakistani monster but the rest of the world is not immune either as events have shown. The US cannot unilaterally achieve anything in Pakistan. This is one more instance where the tail is now wagging the dog and the dog is unaware of or unwilling to accept that fact. The Brits and the Americans must shed their false pride and work with India to solve Pakistan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jun 2010 08:46

Carl_T wrote:
ramana wrote:A lot of WKK wax eloquent about how Abdus Salam should have been accommodated at BARC. When the guy is a fundoo if different hue it doesn't matter.
Why do you say he was a fundoo?

Carl_T at a basic level he hated Hindus for their religion.

Read the post linked here:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 65#p884265

Yet India honored him and he felt good for he thought it was his achievements that merited the honor and not because his hosts were broadminded and enlightened.

Aksa hota hain where the honoree thinks he is getting honored due to his own worth and not not because the host is magnanimous. That why the ancients caution about "Apatra danam!"

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 Jun 2010 09:26

‘Almost resolved Pak issue through back channels’

Vice-president Hamid Ansari’s East European tour acquired political overtones Monday when he spelt out the pending areas of disagreement with Pakistan and elaborated on how “a series of back channel discussions” almost resolved problems when Pervez Musharraf was Pakistan President.

He said, “We have had a similar problem with our Eastern neighbour (Bangladesh) for several years but managed to resolve that a few months ago when a new government was formed.”

...
...
He then talked about former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s historic bus ride to Lahore and recalled how, known to few, India was engaged in a “successful back channel dialogue which was a roller coaster of sorts. “We almost got there and solved the problem,” he said. He was quick to clarify how the back channel dialogue was “on the premise that any agreement had to be on existing realities and looking to the future and not the past, that redrawing boundaries was out of question. I am not pessimistic on Pakistan though people tell me I should not be optimistic. We will get there... we South Asians have a strange way of solving our problems.”
...
...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jun 2010 09:42

Mr Ansari should let the executive branch make the political statements and keep the dignity of his position as the Vice president.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Jun 2010 10:05

The demand for Pakistan and Islam
Lays bare how Islam was used in creating Pakistan. Jinnah is again implicated.

Jinnah wrote in November 1945 a letter to Pir Manki Sharif in which he promised that the Shariat would apply to the affairs of the Muslim majority. He wrote:

“It is needless to emphasise that the Constituent Assembly, which would be predominantly Muslim in its composition, would be able to enact laws for Muslims, not inconsistent with the Shariat laws and the Muslims will no longer be obliged to abide by the un-Islamic laws” (Constituent Assembly of Pakistan Debates, Volume 5, 1949, pg 46).

The Muslim League’s propaganda struck terror in the hearts of the Hindus and Sikhs who were told that they would be paying jazya and Islamic law will prevail in all sectors of individual and collective life. The minority Shia and Ahmediyya communities were also fearful that it would result in Sunni domination. This is obvious from the correspondence between the Shia leader Syed Ali Zaheer and Jinnah in July 1944 (G Allana, 1977: 375-9).

In a meeting in May 1947 sponsored by Lord Mountbatten to help the Muslims and Sikhs reach an agreement on keeping Punjab united, Jinnah offered the Sikhs all the safeguards they wanted if they agreed to support Pakistan. Only in March 1947 some 2,000-10,000 Sikhs — depending on who you cite — were butchered in the Rawalpindi rural areas so the Sikhs were very wary of Jinnah’s overtures. Chief Minister of Patiala Hardit Singh Malik writes he had an inspiration and asked Jinnah: “Sir you are making all the promises but God forbid if something happens to you, what will happen then?” The exact words Jinnah used in reply will be revealed in my forthcoming book, but the reasoning was that his followers will treat his words as sacred.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 Jun 2010 13:44

The more I read the more I am convinced ---

Pakistanis are India's best friend against Pakistan -- otherwise the entire Dhimmi WKK brigade would have sold us down the Indus if the Pakis were slightly less Paki.

We are truly protected by Dharma of good Indians....

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 08 Jun 2010 14:03

ramana wrote:Mr Ansari should let the executive branch make the political statements and keep the dignity of his position as the Vice president.

Whenever India says that they can solve the problem with TSP (or were close to), they are doing two things:

(1) Telling the do-gooders to keep their hands off the sub-continent
(2) Diffusing the fear about the whole sub-continent going up in a mushroom crowd

As long as nothing is given away, have some chai-biskut.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 08 Jun 2010 14:44

The failure of land reforms in Pakistan

Nothing new here but it captures the complete essence of why land reforms were a farce in Pakistan. In the end, they have now been found to be unIslamic as well ! An important point to note is that the Zamindari system was abolished in East Pakistan as early as circa 1950 and yet West Pakistan could do little in that direction. It comes from the basic belief that 'Land was Power'. The British used that technique to reward the soldiers in the Potohar region and the PA has continued the tradition expanding it to South & Central Punjab, Sind and even portions of Balochistan.

The land reforms of 1972, like the land reforms of 1959, also failed to affect the power of big landlords significantly. Most of the 1972 reforms were an extension of the 1959 reforms; perhaps the only difference was the lowering of the land ceiling

The first attempt at land reforms was undertaken by the military regime of Ayub Khan back in 1959. This attempt aimed to fix the ceiling on the private ownership of land at 500 acres irrigated and 1,000 acres un-irrigated. Since the ceiling on ownership was fixed in terms of individual rather than family holdings, it enabled most of the big landlords to circumvent the ceiling by transferring their excess land to various real and fictitious family members. Moreover, a number of additional provisions in the 1959 land reforms allowed landlords to retain land far in excess of the ceiling even on an individual basis. For example, a provision that enabled landlords to retain land above the ceiling was that an additional area was allowed for orchards. {The author forgets to mention that another provision allowed landlords to retain more lands if their productivity was high}

It is interesting however that even out of the land declared in excess of the ceiling, only 35 percent could be resumed by the government. Also, of the land resumed, as much as 57 percent was uncultivated land. Most of this area needed considerable land improvement before it could be cultivated. Yet the government paid millions of rupees to the former owners as ‘compensation’ for surrendering land that was producing nothing.

The 1972 land reforms shared with the 1959 land reforms the essential feature of specifying the ceiling in terms of individual rather than family holdings. But the ceiling in the 1972 land reforms was lower, being 150 acres for irrigated and 300 acres for un-irrigated lands. Development economists have calculated that if an owner also took advantage of the provision for intra-family transfers, the ceiling came to 932 acres irrigated in Punjab and 1,120 acres in Sindh. Of the land that was declared above the ceiling by landlords after they had made use of the provisions for circumventing the ceiling, only 42 percent was resumed in Punjab and 59 percent in Sindh. Most of the resumed land was again uncultivable.

Nonetheless, the very principle of surplus land acquisition was questioned in the Federal Shariat Court (FSC) on the grounds that it was contrary to Islamic injunctions. The FSC ruled that land reforms were unconstitutional in 1980. This decision was upheld by the Supreme Court in 1989. {The Supreme Court also allowed corporate entities from exemption to land celings and feudal landlords have conveniently used that simple ruse to retain their holdings} The court declared that the mandatory acquisition of private land by the use of state force was against the principles of Islamic law, effectively closing the chapter on further land reforms of this type. {How can the Taliban resort to land reforms then ?}

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 08 Jun 2010 15:08

Cause Tabliban is more Islamic than the Supreme Court which is following Gheir Kanoon which is not Islamic and they are not Islamic enough

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 08 Jun 2010 16:31

There are two reasons for posting this news article: Defence claims Rs442bn

1. The sorry lot of the porkis as a whole.

The adverse effects (of W.O.T.) include a decline in GDP growth, reduction in investment, lost exports, damaged and destroyed physical infrastructure, loss of employment and incomes, diversion of budgetary resources to military and security-related spending, cutbacks in public sector development spending, flight of capital and human capital, reduction in capital and wealth stock, exchange rate depreciation and inflation.

2. This photo. Now I am not an expert on weapons but this below photo accompanies the above article but to me it seems to show SDRE-type soldiers with "Insas rifles" (the usual trademark orange colored polymer furniture). Are the porkis now using photos of Indian soldiers to pass off as their own? Will the esteemed members of BRF please confirm if I am mistaken? Apologies in advance.

An Insas rifle:

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 08 Jun 2010 16:40

^^good catch. That's INSAS alright

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 08 Jun 2010 17:28

Interesting read about two Paki army commandos who opposed Lal Masjid operations and who have since been punished, tortured, court-martialed and more.

Lal Masjid commandos seek Supreme Court’s intervention
http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=29350

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Jun 2010 17:53

ramana wrote:
ramana wrote:A lot of WKK wax eloquent about how Abdus Salam should have been accommodated at BARC. When the guy is a fundoo if different hue it doesn't matter.
Carl_T at a basic level he hated Hindus for their religion.

Read the post linked here:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 65#p884265

Yet India honored him and he felt good for he thought it was his achievements that merited the honor and not because his hosts were broadminded and enlightened.

Aksa hota hain where the honoree thinks he is getting honored due to his own worth and not not because the host is magnanimous. That why the ancients caution about "Apatra danam!"

not sure if that can be extrapolated to assume he was a fundoo. even that article mentions his attitude towards India did change over time. I've read of a number of his personal interactions with people of other religions, including a very detailed one on when he came to India to pay respects to his highschool science teacher(a hindu). in none of the anecdotes he comes across as a fundoo, even evidences of wearing his religion on his sleeve are mostly absent.
in hindsight, perhaps offering salam a place at one of institutes would have been a wise thing to do. it would have destroyed once and for all pakistan's claim to be a modern country.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Jun 2010 18:01

ramana wrote: Carl_T at a basic level he hated Hindus for their religion.

Read the post linked here:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 65#p884265

Yet India honored him and he felt good for he thought it was his achievements that merited the honor and not because his hosts were broadminded and enlightened.

Aksa hota hain where the honoree thinks he is getting honored due to his own worth and not not because the host is magnanimous. That why the ancients caution about "Apatra danam!"

Ramanaji, the gini would have come out of PH's bottle if Ahmedis were not declared non-muslims. His opinions changed only after Ahmedis were declared non-muslims in 1974 and he was cut out of TSP's JDAM program. This cannot be seen as true transformation of heart.

Appeasement cannot be state policy. People who feel Indians are enough to take Indian Interests forward.

I don't understand why some people just can't see the truth.

Suppiah · Post by **Suppiah** » 08 Jun 2010 18:52

Pure Pakbarian animals kill a less pure animal thru public execution...under laws of ROP...in Miramshah....is this an area 'conquered' by the brave TSP army in announcement-ware?

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw ... shah-ss-02

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 08 Jun 2010 19:34

1. The reports of Abdus Salam's fundamentalism arise from Pervez Hoodbhoy, who is not a reliable source.

2. In any case, we should judge people mostly by their deeds and less by their beliefs.

3. Abdus Salam would have been teaching, researching physics, where his religious beliefs would be in abeyance.

4. Proof is in the pudding - as far as I know, Indian scientists have always been welcome at Abdus Salam's ICTP (International Centre for Theoretical Physics) in Trieste, Italy, while Abdus Salam ran it.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 08 Jun 2010 20:06

From the Associated Press:

Indian paramilitary soldiers stand guard outside their post in Srinagar, India, Sunday, June 6, 2010. Security has been heightened in the Valley ahead of the two-day visit of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that begins Monday.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Jun 2010 20:07

A_Gupta-ji

I do not have any problem with AS's beliefs, preferences and orientation.

My problem is with those Indians who think that these people are OK to make love with, have they been in India. These gentlemen chose to live-in, support and live TSP way-of-life. And they deserve the karma-phala that they got/get.

What would be AS's actions if he was accepted by TSP? Even AQK criticized TSP establishment when he became a used condom.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 08 Jun 2010 20:09

Don't compare AQK -xerox khan - who is a thief and opportunist, with Abdus Salam, please!

Accepted, don't support TSP-way-of-life. But do put in the effort to wean geniuses and talented folks - scientists, musicians, artists - from TSP-way-of-life; it is worth it.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 08 Jun 2010 20:18

Carl_T wrote:
ramana wrote:A lot of WKK wax eloquent about how Abdus Salam should have been accommodated at BARC. When the guy is a fundoo if different hue it doesn't matter.
Why do you say he was a fundoo?

carl, while I cannot speak for AS but the ahmediya community was more rabidly pro pakistan in pre 1947 than the rest of east punjab muslim peasantry.

In the 1947-48 Kashmir campain they had a separate Ahmediya unit staffed with volunteers and paid for from community money. They lost out becuz the someone else turned out to be better than them at the Anti India game. The Ahrars who till 1947 were aginst partition were at the fore front of the 1953 anti ahmediya riots. They are, if you may the first generation if the Punjabi taliban.

AS cannot be separate from this cancer affliciting his community.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Jun 2010 20:30

A_Gupta wrote:Don't compare AQK -xerox khan - who is a thief and opportunist, with Abdus Salam, please!

Accepted, don't support TSP-way-of-life. But do put in the effort to wean geniuses and talented folks - scientists, musicians, artists - from TSP-way-of-life; it is worth it.

Nope sir, cant do that.

If you make such distinction, majority of RAPEs, TSPA and ISI fall in to your love-making group.

My litmus test is, did s/he support Indic cause at both their best and worst times?

P.S: We are talking about TSPians here.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 08 Jun 2010 20:31

ramana wrote:Mr Ansari should let the executive branch make the political statements and keep the dignity of his position as the Vice president.

Some jokers in similar constitutional positions have always undermined India and her interests.

CJIs and presidents included.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 08 Jun 2010 20:54

Paul wrote:
In the 1947-48 Kashmir campain they had a separate Ahmediya unit staffed with volunteers and paid for from community money. They lost out becuz the someone else turned out to be better than them at the Anti India game. The Ahrars who till 1947 were aginst partition were at the fore front of the 1953 anti ahmediya riots. They are, if you may the first generation if the Punjabi taliban.

AS cannot be separate from this cancer affliciting his community.

People without knowing the history have lot of opinion. Lot of communities during the partition took the opportunity to support partition for gaining power and money.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 08 Jun 2010 21:04

Meanwhile ...
Pak promote Defence ties with another superpower

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 08 Jun 2010 21:16

RamaY wrote: If you make such distinction, majority of RAPEs, TSPA and ISI fall in to your love-making group.

So majority of RAPEs, TSPA, ISI are geniuses - talented in science, mathematics, the arts? Since when?

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 08 Jun 2010 21:35

A_Gupta wrote:Don't compare AQK -xerox khan - who is a thief and opportunist, with Abdus Salam, please!

Accepted, don't support TSP-way-of-life. But do put in the effort to wean geniuses and talented folks - scientists, musicians, artists - from TSP-way-of-life; it is worth it.

and they all share one common philosophy 'haske liya pakistan, ladke lenge hindustan'. Every TSPian worth his salt has a wound of 1971 deep in his heart. Cant heal it, really.

saip · Post by **saip** » 08 Jun 2010 22:45

Amber G. wrote:Meanwhile ...
Pak promote Defence ties with another superpower

Later, the two countries signed Memorandum of Undersigned (MoU) to enhance defence collaboration.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 08 Jun 2010 22:45

I dont care what Ahmedias did during pre-partition politics. Neither do I care what purer breed of faithfuls are doing to them now. For me any one who opted to stay or migrate to what constitutes TSP is guilty of severing our motherland. There is no need to suddenly develop love fest to give these guys visas or citizenships to come here. As for the case of Mr Salam even if he was offered research position in India with all honors I doubt he would have come. We have few Indian nobel laureates who are welcome to come back but never do. The reason is not that they dont love India its just that west offers a lot more in terms of facilities, environment and money which is conducive to research. So we need to channel our energies to develop our infrastructure and knowledgebase rather than emulating stupid WKK losers

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 08 Jun 2010 23:02

Regarding meat., Pakistanis eat all parts of the animal while Indians do not.

The poor people in Pakistan use animal fat to cook pulses or vegetables., even using animal fat instead of Ghee for stuff like Pakora's Jalebis, etc. BTW.. naPakistanis do eat Halwa, Jalebis, Puris, Chana, etc., which, if you buy from any average restaurant, is most likely cooked in Animal Fat.

Regarding Ahmadias!! they were involved in large scale rioting and arson in 1947 before 15th August to influence Radcliff so that district of Gurdaspur is included into Pakistan (City of Qadiya is in Gurdaspur and majority of Ahmadias lived in around the city of Batala in Gurdaspur district). After 15th August they had to run away to Pakistan.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 08 Jun 2010 23:18

Bajwa ji I saw that youtube link to Lahore's slaughter house and it was repulsive to state is mildly especially to a vegetarian SDRE. I wanna see the face of the bengali reporter who was singing praises for paki food & cuisine. I know in India we make milk from urea and detergents but pakis have taken it to the higher level of recycling where skin flesh bones blood everything is recycled. YUCK I dred if I ever have to visit paki lands

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 08 Jun 2010 23:27

What is wrong with using animal fat in cooking if your are not a veggie? In UK they use it in pies, in pureland it is halwa whereas in west it is all ground up into hot dogs. Nothing wrong.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 08 Jun 2010 23:31

I guess you need to see Mangal Pandey!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 08 Jun 2010 23:38

Well if you are traveling to naPakistan then only food for you to eat is Fruits!! even a common Chana Dal is cooked with beef Fat (sometimes there are bits of meat in Dal too).

For me Halwa (Karah Prasad) is a "Sacred" food which is to be distributed among all common folks!!!! And Traditional Indian Halwa is always cooked with Desi Ghee (and not Beef Fat)., just like Puris are fried in Desi/Vegetable Ghee and Ladoos are made with Desi/Vegetable Ghee.

Pakistanis have indeed taken the meat eating to another level along with their taller and deeper friends! eating all parts of anything that moved., including instestines, stomachs, eyes, brains, skin, etc.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 08 Jun 2010 23:50

I have no problem with people eating food cooked in animal fat. The only concern is that what we assume is vegetarian food like halwa or jalebi is laced with animal fats that we cannot consume. Other problem is the way the fat is extracted from dead rats donkeys as well as out of bones of animals consumed at resturants which are recycled in these slaughterhouses to extract fat. Same time blood is heated to convert it to powder and then used as additive to chicken / animal feed now thats what caused Mad Cow disease isnt it? Veggies will be consuming milk from cows that eat this feed same time perhaps some will consume eggs laced with these kinds of experiemental hazardous bio chemicals.

Carl_T · Post by **Carl_T** » 08 Jun 2010 23:51

While you really cannot use vegetarian standards to judge nonveg cooking, especially because they have no prasad etc, but I see what you mean now. Although in western countries random parts are not eaten separately, but in the American south, some people do eat intestines. I have never had the inclination to try it. We are half-hearted non-vegetarians onlee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offal