India-US Strategic News and Discussion

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Philip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

What can be more provocative than this?! The message is being sent out loud and clear to the Dragon that if it continues its mischief in the Himalayas,India can also move the game right upto its front door.

However,the reliability of the US as an ally is open to Q,as it has betrayed innumerable "allies" in the past.Just ask,Saddam,the Shah,Marcos,Noriega,Zia,Bhutto,Yayha..the list goes on.Let's sincerely hope that India is not added to the list in the future as MMS is merely looking towards his footnote in history and accolades from Uncle Sam similar to what Tony BLiar has received!

MoD clears joint amphibious exercise at US base near China
http://news.in.msn.com/international/ar ... 875&page=4

Xcpts:
New Delhi: A year after the Defence Ministry backed out of a military exercise at a US base near China at the last minute, a go-ahead has been given for a joint amphibious exercise at the US Marines base in Okinawa, Japan. The war game, which will involve senior officers of the Indian Navy and Army is scheduled to start later this week and will continue till October.

The same exercise, under the Habu Nag series of war games, was cancelled at the final stage in 2009 when 12 officers who had been earmarked were sent back to their formations days before they were scheduled to depart.
....

This also brings out the increasing military exercises that are being carried out by Indian forces with their US counterparts. A US official said that India is conducting more exercises with American forces than any other nation in the world. While a brigade-level exercise will take place in Alaska next month where 200 army personnel are expected to participate, a special forces exercise is already under way at Belgaum.

However, military relations with China have chilled after the recent denial of a visa to Northern Army Commander Lt Gen BS Jaswal who was to lead a military delegation to Beijing on the grounds that he commanded troops in a "disputed area". Sources say that it is too soon to comment on whether a joint exercise with the Chinese army scheduled for next year will go ahead following this.

Source: Indian Express
Last edited by Philip on 22 Sep 2010 12:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Venkarl »

post deleted----Wrong thread
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vera_k »

On 1984 Sikh Riots, Lawsuits Proceed in India and the U.S
Earlier this year Sikhs for Justice and two riot survivors accused Mr. Nath of leading rioters against a Sikh temple after Mrs. Gandhi was assassinated by Sikh bodyguards.

A U.S. judge earlier this month ordered the parties involved to meet on Sept. 22 to appear for a pre-trial conference for discussing “settlement, exploring contemplated motions, stipulating facts, arranging a plan and schedule for all discovery and setting a time for trial,” according to a statement from the Sikh group.

According to a scan of the court document made available by another Sikh activist group, counsel for the parties are to meet with Judge Robert W. Sweet’s clerk at the U.S. Courthouse in downtown New York City at 4:30 p.m. Wednesday.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by D Roy »

US EU PRC India
22 16 12 8


For a long time it was 22+ 16 = 38 against the Soviets. The percentages may have varied. But even that was not enough so China was roped in while the Soviets looked at India.

Now in Asia some are thinking 22+8 = 30 => 12

hence the feelers between Eu and China over arms sales for 16+ 12 = 28. East-West relationships are invariably about "hey help me prevent a loss of jobs in my guns economy by supplying butter and I will give you technolojee."

Nevertheless 30 versus 28 = Balance of power

In 2025

18 16 14 10

18+10 = 28 versus 16 +14 = 30 So still BOP but with situation reversed on account of greater proportional decline by transatlantic goras.

of course these values also make it clear why at least till 2025 India + China does not make any sense. beyond 2030 when China >18 and India >14 we might see the Asian brotherhood.

Note I am not counting the various 5 percenters ( Japan , Brazil, Russia et al) in this equation.

Of course we can use all these values for a simple non-bayesian game and come up with some interesting results.

But sometimes arithmetic is better than algebra.
Last edited by ramana on 22 Sep 2010 23:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to highlight and add context. ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Pranav wrote:It is important to get across the idea that TSP being a terrorist entity, any supply of armaments to it is an illegitimate act.
Indeed, but its an uphill battle. Put yourself in US shoes and look at India through a colonial lens. They don't view terror against India as being the same evil level as we do. For them, its India & TSP, synonymous of Hindus & Muslims, have both done horrible things to each other, both are dirt poor, bla bla, and both have a history of enmity bla bla, and US can help both to by good boys and do its bidding. Its history now, but after 9/11 when the colonial west declared TSP to be the world's IT capital, India, which has the borne the brunt of TSP's IT prowess should have been elevated to a different glide path, but that didn't happen and we are where we are.

But I agree its worth trying. I don't think we can get US to view TSPA/LET as terrorist orgs like US views say Hamas against Israel, but as much as we can get US to chip away and use its enormous leverage to limit TSP's use of LET, the better. And IMO that is happening to a certain extent. All this Kashmir tamasha we have been witnessing is happening under US watch. TSP for sure would like to use the current turmoil as a platform to launch LET attacks, but if it does that, it knows India will cry foul and US being present in the region cannot look askance. And to pacify US, India does a GUBO before the odious geelani & Co. So both India & TSP get US to straddle that fine ambiguous line on Kashmir. Equal equal onlee.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Philip, All that exercise will do is let the US assess what Indian capabilties are. It wont scare anyone. Bet on it in a few months time SOF type blogs will be agog with how pathetic the situation was and need to sell more weapons to India.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

CRamS wrote: It is important to get across the idea that TSP being a terrorist entity, any supply of armaments to it is an illegitimate act.

Indeed, but its an uphill battle. Put yourself in US shoes and look at India through a colonial lens. They don't view terror against India as being the same evil level as we do. For them, its India & TSP, synonymous of Hindus & Muslims, have both done horrible things to each other, both are dirt poor, bla bla, and both have a history of enmity bla bla, and US can help both to by good boys and do its bidding. Its history now, but after 9/11 when the colonial west declared TSP to be the world's IT capital, India, which has the borne the brunt of TSP's IT prowess should have been elevated to a different glide path, but that didn't happen and we are where we are.
The whole thing is seen as a dispute where each country is against each other. It is considered as a break away region of India and some even compare with Greek and Sparta from their mythology history reference.
Militaristic society of the west looks at Pakistan as a military society trying to do justice to its people. They consider its action as legitimate and look at individual acts as small acts pricks.
They look at India too big which is going to eclipse Pakistan. This is remidied by doing == and also balancing my reducing the news of India. Do not expect good news about India from the west since they have not reconciled to the large population of India. They would like to get news about India and keenly follow what Indians think and discuss. This is the dichotomy about their impression of India. They think that they can impress and change the view of Indians about the west and try hard using media to change the view of Indians. That is one of the motive of their to own the news media in India.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Karan Dixit »

There is no place for emotions in foreign policy. I see lots and lots of emotions here. Well, I am myself guilty of that sometimes. We are humans after all.

In my opinion and this is a humble opinion of course. Existence of both US and China is vital to our national security. As a matter of fact, apart from Pakistan I cannot think of any other country whose existence is detrimental to India.

Both China and US help us enormously just by breathing and kicking and being alive. If you take China out of picture, US has all its guns to taint on us (and few others). If you take US out of picture, China has all its guns to taint on us (and few others).

The right thing to do under current circumstances is to join the military coalition to contain China's expansion if such military coalition ever emerges. One thing I would like to say here is that we are not the country in the region which needs the coalition the most. I think Japan, Vietnam, Taiwan, etc. need the coalition even more. So there should not be any fear on our part that somehow this alliance will make us subservient to US.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by abhishek_sharma »

India conveys displeasure over Ohio outsourcing ban to U.S.

http://www.hindu.com/2010/09/23/stories ... 122000.htm
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

Oh Please.
The way US gushes over MMS one would think he is their man instead of ours.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/a ... 03582.aspx
A top US official today described Prime Minister Manmohan Singh as "a man of uncommon decency and grace" who has led the way in building the Indo-US partnership, as he presented the Indian leader 'The World Statesman Award. "History will also mark with special significance Prime Minister Singh's personal contributions to the emerging partnership between the world's oldest and largest democracies, America and India," Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Bill Burns said at an awards dinners in New York where the Prime Minister was awarded in absentia by the Appeals of Conscience Foundation.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

On the way out
asprinzl
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by asprinzl »

Karan,
Very well said. In the same line, I think Pakistan is a big factor in ensuring unity of India and Indians. I believe if Pakistan doesn't exist, Indians will be bickering and fighting amongst themselves.

Anyways, I just read somewhere that as of late last year India's import has over taken India's export with the gap getting larger and larger. If this trend continues, the large Indian foreign reserve would erode away. The increase in import suggests that Indian industries are seriously lacking in their ability to meet growing consumer demands for goods and services.
Avram
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by krisna »

Americans sacrificing their kid''s future for Pakistan
Americans are sacrificing their children''s future to build infrastructure in Pakistan, a senior Senator said today.
This government''s going to borrow 41 cents out of every dollar it spends this year. I mean, this is a real sacrifice Americans are making, and they''re sacrificing their children''s and grand children''s future in order to build infrastructure in Pakistan," Senator Jim Rish said at a Congressional hearing.
"Do they have even a modicum of appreciation for what Americans are doing for them" Rish asked Cameron Munter, who has been nominated by Obama as the next US Ambassador to Pakistan.
Reply of Munter is
If confirmed, I''ll try to verify this :roll: . I don''t think it''s a question that they don''t know what we''re doing.
The question is the scepticism of why we''re doing it and what our goals are and what our relationship is," Munter said in response.
"I know that sounds somewhat soft, but I think the historical experience of America and Pakistan indicates that there have been times of mistrust.
when we see these aggregate figures of popularity 17 per cent of the people positive and scepticism about the American assistance,
that we''re honest, open and clear about the process, that it''s understood to be a straightforward and honest process in investing this money, and that it''s understood why we''re doing it, and that we understand and we''re able to articulate to Americans that the reason this is taking time is because of the historical scepticism,
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by A_Gupta »

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175298/ ... ming_home/
Jim Lobe of Inter Press Service recently reported on the release of a major biennial survey, "Constrained Internationalism: Adapting to New Realities," by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs (CCGA). Here’s the heart of it, as Lobe describes it:

“The survey’s main message, however, was that the U.S. public is looking increasingly toward reducing Washington’s role in world affairs, especially in conflicts that do not directly concern it. While two-thirds of citizens believe Washington should take an ‘active part in world affairs,’ 49% -- by far the highest percentage since the CCGA first started asking the question in the mid-1970s -- agreed with the proposition that the U.S. should ‘mind its own business internationally and let other countries get along the best they can on their own.’

“Moreover, 91% of respondents agreed that it was ‘more important at this time for the [U.S.] to fix problems at home’ than to address challenges to the (U.S.) abroad -- up from 82% who responded to that question in CCGA’s last survey in 2008.”

That striking 49% figure is no isolated outlier. As Charles Kupchan and Peter Trubowitz point out in an article in the journal International Security, a December 2009 Pew poll got the same 49% response to the same “mind its own business” question. It was, they comment, “the highest response ever recorded, far surpassing the 32% expressing that attitude in 1972, during the height of opposition to the Vietnam War.”
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Jarita wrote:Oh Please.
The way US gushes over MMS one would think he is their man instead of ours.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/rssfeed/a ... 03582.aspx
A top US official today described Prime Minister Manmohan Singh as "a man of uncommon decency and grace" who has led the way in building the Indo-US partnership, as he presented the Indian leader 'The World Statesman Award. "History will also mark with special significance Prime Minister Singh's personal contributions to the emerging partnership between the world's oldest and largest democracies, America and India," Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Bill Burns said at an awards dinners in New York where the Prime Minister was awarded in absentia by the Appeals of Conscience Foundation.
Disgusting. I have learnt through my vast experience here in US working and rubbing shoulders with Americans, that while super merit will take you far, for the most part personal relationships and sucking up, in India we call it "maska maar raha hai" or "buttering", can take one equally far & high. In other words, do not openly challenge the status quo if thats the prevailing wind pattern. Believe, me a good part of those in high position of power, both govt & private, use such soft skills as propellers of success. Just ask Nikky Haley or Bobby Jindal or Fareed Zakariah etc.

Now, when it comes to US dealings with non-white countries, the same attitude manifests itself collectively. A tin pot like Shah of Iran or some Khalid Bin Osama from mid east or terrorist rat Musharaff from TSP get fawning adulation from US as their SOB, "our guy"; they get to pick one "good guy" who will do their bidding in their "us Vs them" narrative, all the while talking about supporting democracy and other crap (and of course, the western lackeys also then say "me too" and fete whoever it is that US chooses as "good boy").

Closer to home, this adulation for MMS from every western pipsqueak must be seen in this light. Thus, someone like Arun Jaitly or Shushma Swaraj who have wear their nationalist credentials as a badge of honor will be pejoratively dismissed as "Hindu natinalists", while MMS who talks about "walking the extra mile with the perpetrators of Mumbai", or says "India's & TSP's destinies are linked" even as TSP kick's India's balls in Afganisthan or creates mayhem in Kashmir, issues so detrimental to India which MMS doesn't seem too concerned about, is looked upon in such glowing terms.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

CRamS wrote:
Jarita wrote:Oh Please.
The way US gushes over MMS one would think he is their man instead of ours.


Closer to home, this adulation for MMS from every western pipsqueak must be seen in this light. Thus, someone like Arun Jaitly or Shushma Swaraj who have wear their nationalist credentials as a badge of honor will be pejoratively dismissed as "Hindu natinalists", while MMS who talks about "walking the extra mile with the perpetrators of Mumbai", or says "India's & TSP's destinies are linked" even as TSP kick's India's balls in Afganisthan or creates mayhem in Kashmir, issues so detrimental to India which MMS doesn't seem too concerned about, is looked upon in such glowing terms.

Do the words "the Manchurian Candidate", ring any bells saar??
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by chetak »

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/quiet ... adlines%29

Quietly, US military opens up to Sikhs


Posted: Sat Sep 25 2010, 15:18 hrs
Washington:





Growing up near the air force base in Dayton, Ohio, Tejdeep Singh Rattan knew he wanted to serve in uniform. When the military discouraged him, he persisted but again got a cold shoulder.


When he was turned away a third time, Rattan – an observant Sikh with a turban and beard – became suspicious.



"I was, like, I don't know what's going on," he said. "I was very introverted at the time. I never felt the need to fight back. But I said I really want to do this, and you guys are sending me out again and again."


The 31-year-old is now US Army Captain Rattan, since July the head dentist at the Fort Drum base in New York.



In what appears to be a quiet shift, the US military since last year has allowed Rattan and two other Sikhs to serve while retaining their turbans and beards, which are required by their faith.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Carl_T »

^^^^ That is quite interesting they have allowed the above. Didn't think it was going to happen.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by vera_k »

Sikh group meets Obama on anti-Sikh riots
The group met Obama in Philadelphia on Monday, according to Sikhs For Justice, a New York-based group, which has initiated a case against Transport Minister Kamal Nath in NYC for his alleged role in the riots.

"It was very brief meeting and he listened patiently and nodded affirmatively," said Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, legal advisor to Sikhs for Justice, who also noted that it was an "informal meeting" that took place when Obama came for the fundraiser for Democratic Congressman Joe Sestak's campaign.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

Hey just heard that Sonia Gandhi is in US - as per the twitter buzz. I don't think it is official.
Can someone elaborate.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

Jarita wrote:Hey just heard that Sonia Gandhi is in US - as per the twitter buzz. I don't think it is official.
Can someone elaborate.
Sonia's mother is not doing well and she was getting medical treatment in the US. May be Sonia is in the US to take care of her mother! Sonia was in the US couple of months back when her mom came to US for treatment.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Carl_T wrote:^^^^ That is quite interesting they have allowed the above. Didn't think it was going to happen.
But despite being kicked oout and told to f%^&ck off so many times, why was he desparate to serve in US military. This guy is not aworthy singh.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Prasad »

I don't understand. From the looks of it, it appears he is a US citizen. In that case, where does his being worthy come into the picture?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

CRamSji, I ws intrigued by your statement:

"I have learnt through my vast experience here in US working and rubbing shoulders with Americans, ...

You must be here a long time -- 20-30 years?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by arun »

svinayak
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

Some good info

Yesterday 01:30 PM
Recommended by
4 people
Look, look, this is still good. Let's put this here. See, it still kind of looks OK, doesn't it?

Dan, the Empire is over.

No, no, we just need to scrape some of this together

Dan, you've gone mad.

Pass me those news cuttings! Yes, yees, "India to become world's 3rd largest economy" - Yes don't you see?? DON'T YOU SEE?!? They like us don't they? They'll revive Thatcherism won't they??!?

No, Dan. Large parts of the country are still Communist. They have a whole history of their own now. Support for Christianity is falling, hatred for the Union Jack is still high. Only 23% even speak English.

No! Begone!! WHAT ABOUT CRICKET!??

I mean look, Germany has 53% English speakers, France 36%, Denmark 86% (that's more than Canada), Netherlands 87%, Finland 63%. Sweden is 89%! That's closing in on the USA, Dan.

No... no... my club. My 400 million strong Army Of Ayn Rand. We will rise... we will rise...

(Edited by author 14 hours ago)
Report
Recommend
They are looking at Ayn Rand. Now you wonder why Ayn Rand books are so prevalant among the college students.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Carl_T »

This post has self destructed.
Last edited by Carl_T on 27 Sep 2010 07:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by archan »

Carl_T wrote:The mosque row has suddenly disappeared from all news and media. Opposition has extracted enough mileage out of it or just got tired of it?
Indo-US strategic News and Discussion please?
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by svinayak »

Image

Lot of saffron color being used in US ads and places recently
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Hari Seldon »

^^^ Much more needs to be seen, besides. The orange jumpsuit variety used in federal prisons in the US.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by RajeshA »

archan wrote:
Carl_T wrote:The mosque row has suddenly disappeared from all news and media. Opposition has extracted enough mileage out of it or just got tired of it?
Indo-US strategic News and Discussion please?
For further discussions of the mosque row in case there is any need please refer to the Islamism & Islamophobia Abroad - News & Analysis Thread.
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

This is a fascinating review of Douglas Hurd's superb book of British foreign policy over the last few centuries,exploding the myth of Britain's "special relationship" with the US,where from Churchillian times,Britain was always treated as a vassal state,like a good ally "argues and obeyed" its superior master! Some interesting gems revealed now are that there was actually NO threat whatsoever from Stalin's Russia after WW2 ,revealed now in released papers,and a false threat scenario was developed to form NATO.The same strategy was used to invade Iraq and oust Saddam and gain control of his oil.

It is particularly complusary reading for all those who want to ask what the "strategic relationship" is between India and the US and what we are to expect from this.I give below a few extracts to show the lies and chicanery used by the US to fool the world into accepting a neo-imperialist agenda since WW2 to invade and steal the wealth of many nations,a policy still being used today.Whether India under "Constable Singh" will avoid becoming another US patsy and rent-boy like Pak is open to Q.We cannot afford to have enslaved our foreign and defence policy,just as Britain was and has discovered under Cameron and co. who are loosening their "special" ties.

"Choose your Weapons:The British Foreign Secretary,200 years of Argument,Success and failure".Author Dounglas Hurd.
Britain sold itself short. It had a store of wisdom on foreign policy unmatched in the U.S. Read the speeches on foreign affairs in the House of Commons in the 19th century and you will realise the striking contemporary relevance of much that was said – morality and foreign policy, regime change, intervention in other countries and the futility of parliamentary resolutions on foreign policy.
"For the novice British diplomat it comes as a shock to discover that most Americans, whether Republican or Democrat, sophisticate or redneck, believe that their country's actions in the world are intrinsically virtuous; and more fool those countries that do not recognise this.”
Book Review,NOT QUITE SPECIAL
http://frontlineonnet.com/fl2717/storie ... 708300.htm

Britain's new leaders have begun to question the country's supposed “special relationship” with the United States.

Not quite special
A.G. NOORANI

Britain's new leaders have begun to question the country's supposed “special relationship” with the United States.
“GREAT BRITAIN has lost an Empire and not yet found a role,” Dean Acheson said in a speech on December 6, 1972. The British rightly resented this insolent pronouncement by an overrated United States Secretary of State. If John F. Kennedy had listened to him during the Cuban Missile Crisis, a nuclear catastrophe would have followed. When he was in office, the United Kingdom supported him on all major issues, the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, Korea and the rest. The remark rankled because it revealed a certain disdain for The Most Faithful Ally a la the Nizam of Hyderabad for the British. Like beauty “the special relationship” between the U.S. and the U.K. resided only in the eyes of the beholder, the desperate Brits. Their Prime Minister's recent visit to the U.S. was heralded by the BBC proclaiming it, accurately, as reflecting a “necessary” relationship, not a “special” one – which never existed. It is amazing how, unlike Charles de Gaulle, Winston Churchill subordinated himself to Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry Truman and Dwight D. Eisenhower.

The change has not come all of a sudden. Con Coughlin, executive editor of the Daily Telegraph wrote recently: “The radical reappraisal of British foreign policy undertaken by Prime Minister David Cameron's new coalition government has raised serious questions about the future of Britain's historic alliance with Washington. It has also provoked deep divisions among senior ministers over how long British troops will remain committed to combat operations in Afghanistan” ( Wall Street Journal, July 9, 2010). The British have come to realise that American assessments on world affairs are not gospel. Tony Blair, immortalised in Geoffrey Whatcroft's mini classic Yo! Blair is a figure of fun not unmixed with contempt. What is he doing in West Asia as an envoy? Nothing. The job is meant to save his self-esteem or what is left of it.

During the election campaign, Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said on April 22: “If Britain wants to prepare for the future and not be imprisoned by the past, if we want to understand these future challenges of the world and understand how to play an effective role in shaping the world according to our values and interests, we are going to have to release ourselves from the historic spell of default Atlanticism.” He acknowledged that there had been very profound differences between Britain and the U.S., particularly on the issue of the “George Bush-Dick Cheney orchestrated war on terror”.

.... a report by the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, chaired by the Labour Member of Parliament Mike Gape, poured scorn on the notion of a “special relationship”. It noted: “The perception that the British government was a subservient ‘poodle' to the U.S. administration leading up to the period of the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath is widespread both among the British public and overseas. This perception, whatever its relation to reality, is deeply damaging to the reputation and interests of the U.K.”

It added that the idea of a special relationship, envisaged by Churchill and Roosevelt in the Second World War, is dead. “The use of the phrase ‘special' in its historical sense to describe the totality of the ever-evolving U.K.-U.S. relationship is potentially misleading, and we recommend that its use should be avoided. The overuse of the phrase by some politicians and many in the media serves simultaneously to devalue its meaning and to raise unrealistic expectations about the benefits the relationship can deliver to the U.K.” It urged the government to be “less deferential and more willing to say ‘no' to the U.S.… We recommend that the government should establish a comprehensive review of the current arrangements governing U.S. military use of facilities within the U.K. and in British overseas territories” (Hasan Suroor's report in The Hindu; April 1, 2010).
Foreign Secretary Anthony Eden complained in 1954: “They like to give orders, and if they are not obeyed at once they become huffy.” His Suez adventure reflected a quest for independence but in a singularly destructive manner. It harmed Britain.
Macmillan differed. He was an unrepentant believer in “interdependence”. But, in time, Macmillan came to share Eden's scepticism of reliance on the Americans.
“Ultimately, both leaders concluded, for different reasons, that the American proxy was not the solution to Britain's long-term economic and foreign policy problems and that the Anglo-American relationship could not alone be relied upon to uphold Britain's world position” ( The Foreign Office and British Diplomacy in the Twentieth Century edited by Gaynar Johnson; Routledge; £164).
The views Christopher Meyer, the feisty British Ambassador to the U.S. (1997-2003), on that relationship are refreshingly frank: “When ambassador in Washington, I would not allow the phrase ‘special relationship' inside the embassy. I was worried that my staff would approach their work with a set of delusions: that Britain's relations with the U.S. were different in kind from those with any other country; that the Americans would therefore grant us special benefits, unavailable to other nations; and that as a result, developing a relationship with the U.S. of advantage to Britain would require less effort than with other governments. I wanted our diplomats to take nothing for granted.

“At the right moment there is no substitute for being as tough and direct in negotiation as the Americans are invariably with us. Americans have a striking ability to compartmentalise their sincere affection for Britain from their single-minded pursuit of national interest” ( DC Confidential; Weidenfeld & Nicolson; pages 56-60).
To most Indian writers all this is irrelevant. As one Secretary-General of the Ministry of External Affairs wrote: “A Foreign Office is essentially a custodian of precedents. We had no precedents to fall back upon, because India had no foreign policy of her own until she became independent. We did not even have a section for historical research until I created one.… Our policy therefore necessarily rested on the intuition of one man, who was Foreign Minister – Jawaharlal Nehru. Fortunately his intuition was based on knowledge.…” Indian “experts” on foreign policy are either Nehru-baiters in the name of realpolitik or his self-appointed defenders. The rich record of diplomacy they disdain to consult. This book will go a long way to instruct them.
In 1919, the U.S. withdrew after helping the Allies with the war. In 1945, it stayed on to expand into a global empire. Stalin's Russia provided both an excuse and a justification. In 1944 in Moscow, Churchill concluded the Percentages Agreement with Stalin. The U.S. sabotaged it. Churchill testified that Stalin kept his word and kept his hands off Greece. Having lost 27 million lives in the war, Stalin was in no mood to trust anybody. He sought territorial gains from Hitler in 1940, from Churchill in 1941, and won them in 1944. Opposed by the U.S., he used brutal methods in Eastern Europe. Three decades later, when Kissinger was Secretary of State, State Department Counselor Helmut Sonnenfeldt propounded a doctrine which bore his name. It came close to the 1944 accord. NATO was built on a false fear that Stalin wanted to conquer Western Europe. The archives opened in recent years expose the falsehood. Stalin had no such design. NATO was built on a myth. The authors share it even now. After the end of the Cold War in 1989 and the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, the U.S. expanded NATO's sway eastward.

Gorbachev's gestures of conciliation in 1989-1990 and Vladimir Putin's in 2001 were spurned.

The U.S. is not one to build a fair and just world order. Its power must be checked. Churchill sought to forge an accord with Stalin in 1950 but was opposed by Eden. De Gaulle relied on U.S. power but played an independent role in relations with the Soviet Union. Britain, alas, abdicated that role.

Now a new order must be built with the consent of Russia, China, India, Iran, Brazil and the European Union, that is, if it is able to speak with one voice to reclaim its self-respect and self-confidence. It will be a long haul. But the American century must end.
Philip
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

PS:I forgot a most important quote,that Churchill after WW2,was the least bothered ,when the US gave him a list of islands and other British territories it wated for setting up military bases,of handing over these British colonial territories (such as Diego Garcia) and promptly acceeded to his wishes.
Jarita
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

VinodTK wrote:
Jarita wrote:Hey just heard that Sonia Gandhi is in US - as per the twitter buzz. I don't think it is official.
Can someone elaborate.
Sonia's mother is not doing well and she was getting medical treatment in the US. May be Sonia is in the US to take care of her mother! Sonia was in the US couple of months back when her mom came to US for treatment.

There is buzz on twitter around her visit to US. Seems it is undisclosed vistors to Obama. Any perspective?
amdavadi
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by amdavadi »

Her last visit was also included attending wedding in NY. This is what i heard from my local seven-11
Jarita
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Jarita »

amdavadi wrote:Her last visit was also included attending wedding in NY. This is what i heard from my local seven-11

Her last visit was in August. Pretty frequent visits
ramana
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Jaarita the rumor was she might have been to attend Clinton family wedding.
CRamS
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by CRamS »

Philip:

I have mentioned this many times, and let me reiterate. Just as the west is neutral or at even supportive of TSP when it comes to taking sides on India Pak, particulary terror sponsored by TSP against India (David Cameron's recent statemnent was a breath of fresh air; so also I have not seen an overwhelming, persuasive reason other than western tribalism and white brotherhood, as to why UK and other western lackeys had to jump on the US bandwagon in going after Islamists who attacked the US on 9/11, not any other western country. Heck, I heard that even Sweeden has troops in Afganisthan :-).

Had UK expressed sympathy, but stayed neutral post 9/11, or limited its support to token gestures, I don't think they would have come under the radar screen of Isalmists who are more p!ssed with US for exploiting their oil resources, propping up tin pots, and of course blind, slavish support to Israel.

I mean look at the Takleef a mere statement from Cameron caused TSP; imagine if the west were more foreceful in their support for India and castigating TSP for their sponsorship of terror, I mean there would have been many many more Faizal Shehzaads; but its not just the neutrality, actually overt support to TSP despite its terror against India, that the west receives quite a bit of cooperation from TSP. Of course, for the ungreatful Pakis for whom nothing short of India's head on a silver platter will not suffice is another matter.
Hari Seldon
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Hari Seldon »

o also I have not seen an overwhelming, persuasive reason other than western tribalism and white brotherhood, as to why UK and other western lackeys had to jump on the US bandwagon in going after Islamists who attacked the US on 9/11, not any other western country. Heck, I heard that even Sweeden has troops in Afganisthan
Err, not exactly and always.

Blood may be thicker than water but money is thicker than blood.

The 15-sept Lehmann collapse was triggered by UQ playing coy at the last minute and refusing a particular credit facility extension to Lehman London that might have perhaps saved the beleaguered bank a few moons more of life, who knows? So

Besides, UQ is thick as thieves with every stripe of terrorist, insurgent, criminal, fraudster etc on the planet, providing shelter, nurture, networking, platform and trouble-projection capabilities on the isles.
Manishw
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Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Post by Manishw »

India wants technology co-production with US
http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&source ... 9g0xwm3PNQ
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