A 10-member civil society group from New Delhi Sunday said they are mulling to file a petition in Supreme Court to seek punishment for the security personnel involved in the killing of 118 persons during the 2010 summer unrest in Kashmir
plus prashant bhusanThe team members include social activist Swami Agnivesh, film-maker Syed Mirza, editor Daily Siyasat, Zaheer Ali Khan, author Geeta Hariharan, Professor Kamal Mitra Chenoy, Anuradhha Chenoy, social activist Meena Menon and journalist Seema Mustafa.
a sick joke on IndiaChairman Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front Muhammad Yasin Malik, Chairman Hurriyat (M) Mirwiaz Umar Farooq, senior Hurriyat (M) leaders Professor Abdul Gani Bhat and Bilal Gani Lone. They also met the People’s Conference chairman Sajad Gani Lone.
What's with Agnivesh? He seems to revel in supporting secessionists - be it playing mediator for Naxals and now trying to bog down the security forces in legal battles.ravi_ku wrote:^^^
and who are they?? The "civil society elite"The team members include social activist Swami Agnivesh, film-maker Syed Mirza, editor Daily Siyasat, Zaheer Ali Khan, author Geeta Hariharan, Professor Kamal Mitra Chenoy, Anuradhha Chenoy, social activist Meena Menon and journalist Seema Mustafa.
i think this is something people in my generation is not aware of. Most Kashmiris have told me that Jagmohan did it to paint a communal picture of the situation. As we are well aware of Jagmohans leanings towards RSS, we then tend to agree that he would have taken a biased action. But, at the back of ones mind there always remained a lingering doubt, "this man was an able administrator, he was never partisan in his duties, then how come he did something like that?".... thankfully..there are some details contrary emerging.The only way reconciliation is possible is when both mainstream political parties and separatist organisations start acknowledging that the Pandits were targeted. They know the people responsible for killing the Pandits from 15 March 1989 till today. We have already informed them that we have identified the killers. If they wish we can give them the names but they already know. The killers of not just the Pandits but also ordinary innocent Kashmiri Muslims have to be punished, even if they are punished under Islamic law. Let them make this gesture. They have also been propagating that the Centre conspired by sending Jagmohan as governor. This is a lie. If you go back in history, you will find most of the migration happened after Jagmohan’s tenure. The truth has to be told.
The same Kashmiris will also tell you that 9/11 was a inside job and 26/11 was a RAW job. Says a lot about how far beyond redemption the valley Kashmiris have gone ( would put the valley KMs on par with Pakis in terms of denial)Most Kashmiris have told me that Jagmohan did it to paint a communal picture of the situation. As we are well aware of Jagmohans leanings towards RSS, we then tend to agree that he would have taken a biased action.
Let it be known from Horse's mouth that If Sh. Jagmohan was not in the helm of affairs during those fateful months, Kashmiri Hindus would have been massacared just like Lawhore in 1947 and Valley would have been lost.menon s wrote:interview with Kashmiri Pandit Leader, Sanjay Tickoo.
http://www.tehelka.com/story_main49.asp ... dblood.asp
i think this is something people in my generation is not aware of. Most Kashmiris have told me that Jagmohan did it to paint a communal picture of the situation. As we are well aware of Jagmohans leanings towards RSS, we then tend to agree that he would have taken a biased action. But, at the back of ones mind there always remained a lingering doubt, "this man was an able administrator, he was never partisan in his duties, then how come he did something like that?".... thankfully..there are some details contrary emerging.The only way reconciliation is possible is when both mainstream political parties and separatist organisations start acknowledging that the Pandits were targeted. They know the people responsible for killing the Pandits from 15 March 1989 till today. We have already informed them that we have identified the killers. If they wish we can give them the names but they already know. The killers of not just the Pandits but also ordinary innocent Kashmiri Muslims have to be punished, even if they are punished under Islamic law. Let them make this gesture. They have also been propagating that the Centre conspired by sending Jagmohan as governor. This is a lie. If you go back in history, you will find most of the migration happened after Jagmohan’s tenure. The truth has to be told.
Menon ji, That was a mendacious comment. Just because you believe in something, doesn't mean rest of us too believe in the same non-sense. What biased action did he take ? What leanings towards RSS ? He saved Kashmir for India.As we are well aware of Jagmohans leanings towards RSS, we then tend to agree that he would have taken a biased action.
Now thats something interesting? An extra constitutional authority in Kashmir! very very dangerous.The work is on to finalise the Lokpal Bill draft in the Centre. Since Kashmir has separate a constitution we want a parallel process to draft an anti-corruption legislation,” said well-known RTI activist Muzaffar Bhat, a doctor by profession, while sitting on a vigil in Srinagar’s Lal Chowk area, along with other activists.
The activists demand that a joint panel of civil society and the government be formulated to draft a legislation to tackle corruption on the line of the Lokpal bill. “We demand a join panel. A retired judge from the government side with MLAs, MLCs and both ruling and opposition parties’ leaders should be the panel members. The government can also include other legislators. From the civil society, lawyers, teachers, professors and other should represent the common man,” said Bhat.
Jehad for Jobs!While the rest of India has been busy with news of scams, elections, civil rights activists and public demonstrations, Kashmir prepares for the summer ahead. ‘Khoon ka badla June main lenge’ is the new slogan.
...
The private and the public sectors must be nudged to accept educated and qualified Kashmiri youth in larger numbers. (When did one last see a young Kashmiri as a management trainee in any private sector company?).
Who fed the disinformation to the DDM then? Murky stuff...Distancing themselves from reports that they were proposing reversing the clock to the pre-1953 semi-sovereign days, the three interlocutors on Jammu and Kashmir said on Sunday they had prepared no such draft "on these lines". "All we can say is that we have not prepared any draft as yet nor there i
s one ready to be submitted in the near future on these lines," said Dileep Padgaonkar, leader of the three-member team, at a press conference here Sunday.
Till 1953, the state had control over all affairs barring defence, communications and external affairs.
The three interlocutors were briefing the media about their seventh visit to Jammu and Kashmir, during which they met a cross-section of people in the Kashmir Valley, as also in the Doda and Kishtwar districts in Jammu region and also held a meeting with the Jammu Bar Association.
No disinformation. They wanted it and they talked about it. They started downhill skiing when they saw the hostile public response. It is still not clear what they will recommend and what the GoI would like to do.sum wrote: Who fed the disinformation to the DDM then? Murky stuff...
Uncanny, why do I always hear the first sentence - from those who remain silent on or barely mumble against the "Centre-Left" or Islamism/EJism but reserve their shrillest protests and indignation against what they term "Hindu-Right"! I used to hear this a lot from committed marxists/leftists! By the way, if its not a linguistic faux-pas - are you so sure about my "fetters"? Can you take a guess about my background please? [You could not be talking about yourself - since you claim to be "free" of such vices! And you have not traveled GDF much or looked up my posts on "religion" and "political party"!]menon s wrote:I for one does not need to support a political party or an organised religion as clutches , to walk free. Thats your sad part of life Brihaspati , those are the fetters that will never leave you, nor you can leave them.
Please don't be shocked. These Kashmiri jehadists have learnt this strategy from the masters in this business, the pakis.abhishek_sharma wrote:Jehad for Jobs!
Well i agree to differ with you. If something goes wrong in Pakistan it is that hinge on which Pakistan state depends on, in Iqbals words its " whenever any challenge came to Islam, it was not the muslims who helped overcome it but their religion called Islam" . And in India it is the belief that without Hinduism the region of India will loose its glory and will be engulfed in darkness" as quoted by Vivekananda.Discovered that those are the ones who are really fettered. J&K is not going to be "solved" by vague, non-committed, ideologically befuddled - or worse, self-deluded and deceptively committed underneath to "anti-Hinduism" Indians. Such thinking will always play into the hands of imperialism.
If you hate Hinduism and your heritage you cannot bring such kind of transformation.menon s wrote:Gandhiji once claimed that jammu and Kashmir was the best example of Hindu Muslim unity, in comparison to anywhere else in india. What changed ? that. We need to bring that favor back again. There are internal factors and external factors. There are things within our circle of control and things within our area of concern. In my view we start with areas within our control and slowly expand to our area of concern.
What did Gandhiji knew of J&K? What unity did they show over the years?menon s wrote:Gandhiji once claimed that jammu and Kashmir was the best example of Hindu Muslim unity, in comparison to anywhere else in india. What changed ? that. We need to bring that favor back again. There are internal factors and external factors. There are things within our circle of control and things within our area of concern. In my view we start with areas within our control and slowly expand to our area of concern.
What is your opinion? Do you think that India will not "loose(sic) its glory" and "will not be engulfed in darkness" without "Hinduism"? Since societies do not appear to live in an ideological vacuum, what are the alternative ideologies or faiths that you think are likely to replace and will more than compensate for the loss of "Hinduism"? This is not for J&K thread, but feel free to answer this in an appropriate thread.menon s wrote:Brihaspati wroteWell i agree to differ with you. If something goes wrong in Pakistan it is that hinge on which Pakistan state depends on, in Iqbals words its " whenever any challenge came to Islam, it was not the muslims who helped overcome it but their religion called Islam" . And in India it is the belief that without Hinduism the region of India will loose its glory and will be engulfed in darkness" as quoted by Vivekananda.Discovered that those are the ones who are really fettered. J&K is not going to be "solved" by vague, non-committed, ideologically befuddled - or worse, self-deluded and deceptively committed underneath to "anti-Hinduism" Indians. Such thinking will always play into the hands of imperialism.
Another profound observation. Really, I have heard this so often - like "Marxism is true, because it is a science" [hopefully Marx turns in his grave to hear such a digestion of his logical claims]. Even "open source" codes have to follow a certain language, whose syntax is fixed [yes go down to its core engine, at some level you have to follow the basic "rules"]. What you dub "syncretism" was an attempt at doing a hybrid language - somewhat like writing wrapper classes to call code written in another language. Those who do this know very well, that it is a dangerous task, with strange and funny results and much information lost in translation. In the end, you do not have "syncretism" but a "hybrid" where each language keeps its distinct core. Moreover, from the other side - it was never acknowledged - and what they tried to do was erase the "wrapping" language itself and impose their own proprietary source code onlee.Both put faith at its center and not the people. Hinduism is an open source code religion. It overcame barriers through its syncretism.
I thought you were talking about "Hinduism" being "syncretic"? Do you mean now that "Hinduism" has to be "syncretic" with an "economic wave"? Or are you equating "India==Hinduism" - which as a nation has to be "syncretic"! It would be interesting if you put forward the "contradictory beliefs" that you think rule current economics - because "syncretism" by definition is about "melding contradictory beliefs". Some people have tried to say that "belief" in the ideological sense does not operate and should not operate in "economics". Why should examples make the theory "subjective"!And today it has to syncretise with the changing third wave economic structure to survive. Think about it very carefully, i did not want to put in examples so that theory becomes subjective. But i have enough to offer you.
Now, now, "nephew", it seems, you have a lot of catch up to do in studying the history of "how an(?) handful of English" took-over India, if you stick to the "traitor" theory. "Who" betrayed "whom"? See by that logic, Jinnah and his handful of ML-goons could take over two sizeable piece of real estate, you mean with the help of the "larger public" of the place? So the part of POK could be taken over only because of the connivance of the "larger public" of both sides of J&K! do you realize how many smoking and gaping holes you are burning in the "syncretic/oh-so-unified/Hindu-Muslim communal amity" theory peddled by the Centre-Left for more than 60 years?A nation slipped into colonialism because of traitors in the land. How else would an handful of English takeover India, without the connivance of the larger public, thats native? And traitors are created when there is a disconnect between the state and its people. Our role is to fill that disconnect.
As I pointed out I did not call you names, but you have. I guess you do not yet have the maturity to know when you are throwing an insult.Calling names....thats the last refuge of a man who has nothing to argue, so you sleep tight uncle.
Gandhi ji once suggested that the Congress should disband itself as a political party after Independence. What changed that? We need to bring that "favor" (flavour?) back again. There are internal factors and external factors. There are things within our circle of control and things within our area of concern. In my view we start with areas within our control and slowly expand to our area of concern - which is the negative role played by the party post-Independence as seen by the visionary Bapu.menon s wrote:Gandhiji once claimed that jammu and Kashmir was the best example of Hindu Muslim unity, in comparison to anywhere else in india. What changed ? that. We need to bring that favor back again. There are internal factors and external factors. There are things within our circle of control and things within our area of concern. In my view we start with areas within our control and slowly expand to our area of concern.
i dont know Mr. Raina, Gandhi was from Andromeda Galaxy. Its Mr. raina Vs Gandhi ! 90% of Muslims in Kashmir were Hindus or Buddhists before, they converted. What was wrong in your society, that 90% of ur society, forsake your ancestral religion? was that fear? or you succumbed to fear? hard questions are always there, but we do not ask, because we do not want to hurt you, further. You talk as if KM`s are an alien race, no, they were one amongst you. If pain has come to you, remember it takes two to clap hands and not one. and thats what the responsible think of and, not the straw men.What did Gandhiji knew of J&K? What unity did they show over the years?
An enraged army trooper shot dead four of his colleagues inside a heavily-guarded camp near Panzgam village in south Kashmir's [ Images ] Anantnag district early Thursday morning.
"Those killed include a junior commissioned officer (JCO) and three jawans," a senior police officer said.
The trooper was overpowered by other soldiers who rushed to the spot inside the camp.
The shooting incident triggered panic inside the camp.
Senior army officers have rushed to the spot, according to sources.
Menon ji, I have nothing to add to what you have said.menon s wrote:vikas raina saidi dont know Mr. Raina, Gandhi was from Andromeda Galaxy. Its Mr. raina Vs Gandhi ! 90% of Muslims in Kashmir were Hindus or Buddhists before, they converted. What was wrong in your society, that 90% of ur society, forsake your ancestral religion? was that fear? or you succumbed to fear? hard questions are always there, but we do not ask, because we do not want to hurt you, further. You talk as if KM`s are an alien race, no, they were one amongst you. If pain has come to you, remember it takes two to clap hands and not one. and thats what the responsible think of and, not the straw men.What did Gandhiji knew of J&K? What unity did they show over the years?
Troll alert!!!!!Its Mr. raina Vs Gandhi ! 90% of Muslims in Kashmir were Hindus or Buddhists before, they converted. What was wrong in your society, that 90% of ur society, forsake your ancestral religion? was that fear? or you succumbed to fear? hard questions are always there, but we do not ask, because we do not want to hurt you, further. You talk as if KM`s are an alien race, no, they were one amongst you.
Oh.. so now the rest of the country has to go an figure out what made Kashmiri Hindus, convert to Islam (and that too a couple of centuries before). After doing a root cause analysis we need to come up with a way to find out how these "estranged sheep" can be brought back. And during all these stages Kashmiri Muslims can still maintain their "sense of entitlement" and continue living off the money put in by the rest of the Indians (as tax or what ever).menon s wrote: You talk as if KM`s are an alien race, no, they were one amongst you.
.Actually I sort of agree with him. Root causes must be addressed.Sachin wrote: Here we are mainly discussing terrorism which got triggered during the late 1980s (or early 90s) where as S Menon Saar is just asking us to go back a couple of centuries and sort out things which happened then
Marten wrote:Raina, huh? You must be one of those really difficult KPs that everyone talks about. Rude to your Kashmiri Muslim neighbours; dispossessing them of their belongings, slaughtering them and driving them away from their own land! For God's sake, man, don't you know the Valley was gifted by divine hands to the KMs? You and your army men have all but wiped out KMs from their own valley! OMG! How dare you propose a logical and rational discussion at this point after driving away all of them?
And furthermore, after receiving all those monies for sitting on your unwashed butts all year long and throwing stones in the Summer, you dare complain about the peaceful KMs who haven't said a word yet? Hmpph!
AshokBji is very right. I support him in his superbly unbiased observations.
He is one of the luckier ones, in terms of help received by gobarment. He received attention because the massacre was too big to be ignored.Vinod Dhar's entire family was massacred when he was just a teenager. He now has a government job and a flat allotted by the government in a township for Kashmiri Pandits in Jammu but almost a decade later, the horrors of that night remain with him.
It was the day before Republic Day. Vinod was 14 and had spent the afternoon playing cricket with his friends.
That evening men dressed in army uniforms came into his home. They were offered tea by the family. Vinod was on the terrace when he heard the sound of sustained gunfire. When he came down, after the sound of bullets had ceased, he found the terrorists had gunned down his entire family -- parents, brother, sister, uncle -- and relatives from three other neighbouring Pandit homes.
Twenty-three Pandits were killed in the Wandhama (Srinagar district, northwest Kashmir) massacre that shook the country and the Diaspora. Vinod cowered in fear, hearing the wails of his mother, sister and relatives before they died.
"I remember that night vividly, especially when I am alone and weak. This wound will remain with me till I die," says Vinod, remembering how then prime minister Inder Kumar Gujral had visited him after the massacre and assured him that the government would look after him.
Surpise, it took so long for Menon to come out.I was beginning to doubt my sensing ability and hunch.munna wrote:Menon bhau on roll once again! Anti-Hindu left deserves no explanation or reasoning by victims of its malicious and sick attempts to distort the historical and political narrative. Don't bother..
Benis is not a sure way to sneak in.