India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 28 Nov 2011 18:29

This comes from Ex paki foreign Minister, Great !!
Pakistan's nuclear weapons are not safe: Former foreign minister

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Nov 2011 18:41

^^^

GKD Saar,

Mearly looking to bring some symmetry in the nuke debate in TN.

We will have to see how the stupid GOI will respond to that.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Nov 2011 20:19

kvjayan wrote:"Anti-KKNPP protests take on pluralistic note"

http://expressbuzz.com/states/tamilnadu ... 37097.html

Muslim and Dalit outfits jumped into the protestors bandwagon considering the humanitarian crisis.

This is the new definition of pluralism - Muslim, Christian and Dalits. We saw the same logic during AH protests.

Dalit identity is carved as a separate Hindu identity, but against Hindu resurgence. Divide and rule. We now can understand history better.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Nov 2011 20:24

RamaY,

This is OT. But those three communities together are 80%+ of the population in this area. Keep that in mind before labeling things as non-Indian.
WRT Dalits, no one has yet been able to answer how 60%+ of native population 'managed' to 'classify' themselves as bottom of the barrel community. This too is dharma.

You can reply in GDF if you want.
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http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/tam ... 666134.ece

The letter also took exception to the Central government's “campaign of canards” about the anti-nuke activists receiving foreign funds, support and guidance to drive a wedge in the movement and sought to reassure the Chief Minister that there was not an iota of truth in these charges.

Addressing the media, PMANE leaders said the Expert Group's report only confirmed the worst fears of the people that the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Ltd had “cut corners, compromised on safety and failed to perform statutory due diligence” in pushing the nuclear energy project.

PMANE will submit its own point-by-point rebuttal of the report to the Governments at the Centre and State in a couple of days, besides tabling it before the people.

M. G. Devasahayam, former bureaucrat and convenor of the PMANE panel, called the Central Expert Group's report extremely flawed on fundamental grounds as it relied on 2001 Census figures instead of the 2011 data and claimed environmental impact assessment and CRZ clearances in 1989 when such norms did not exist.

He also questioned the contention that enough resources would be raised in three to four decades of selling energy at 2 paise per unit to meet the costs of decommissioning the plant – though the resources would add up only to about Rs. 640 crore over this period as against the Rs. 1 lakh crore estimate prepared for decommissioning the Fukushima plant in Japan.

V. Suresh, national secretary, People's Union for Civil Liberties, too flayed the Central Experts Group for submitting a report that not merely contained half-truths, but “appeared to be completely founded on falsehoods”.

V. T. Padmanabhan, scientist, said the official reassurance about adequate freshwater reserves to cool the reactors for a period of ten days if any desalination plant malfunctions was on a shaky base as the downtime to restore these plants using complex Israeli technology could be much longer and failure to cool tonnes of spent fuel could be catastrophic for the entire region.

According to PMANE leaders, the Kudankulam site was prone to small-volume volcanic eruptions and mega-tsunamis arising out of the presence of The East Comorin slump and the Colombo slump (agglomeration of loosely-bound sediments that can trigger tsunamis) in the seabed of the Gulf of Mannar.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 28 Nov 2011 21:12

TF garu,

I am not talking about this issue alone, but a general phenomenon. I X-posted this in Future Scenarios thread http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 9#p1202459. Please provide your thoughts there.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 29 Nov 2011 01:42

WRT Dalits, no one has yet been able to answer how 60%+ of native population 'managed' to 'classify' themselves as bottom of the barrel community. This too is dharma.

That is a good question.

Here are some more another.

Why do Christians not accept as equals Dalit Christians, preferring to classify them as Christians of a second order? If New Orleans had been majority Dalits, would the events of Hurricane Katrina have been different? If New Orleans had been French Christian majority, would the outcome have been the same?

I hope Dalit Christians have a good grip of exactly where they are in global Christianity, it may be quite familiar to them.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Nov 2011 02:03

[quote="RamaYDalit identity is carved as a separate Hindu identity, but against Hindu resurgence. Divide and rule. We now can understand history better.

[/quote]
RamaYa,
This is the language of the enemies of India and Indians. Whosoever speaketh this tongue haath already gone to the dark side.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Nov 2011 11:09

I do see discussion veering off course here. Take it as a warning.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 29 Nov 2011 12:25

French nuclear chief bats for EPR technology
MUMBAI, November 29, 2011

Chairperson of the Atomic Energy Commission of France Bernard Bigot on Monday said the controversial European Pressurized Reactor (EPR) technology was re-evaluated after the Fukushima disaster and it had got the green signal from the nuclear safety regulatory bodies of his country, the United Kingdom and Finland.

The three regulatory bodies had expressed reservations about the design aspects of the EPR. This happened due to greater transparency, which was the top priority, and now the three regulators had given the go-ahead for the technology, Dr. Bigot told journalists.

The design of a nuclear reactor had to cope with the local situation and various stress factors, he noted.

Asked about a paper in the latest issue ofCurrent Sciencethat has not ruled out an earthquake of the magnitude of 6 in the Jaitapur area, he said data of the last 1000 years had to be evaluated and if the intensity that may take place is 6, then the design would have to factor in the possibility of a quake that is 30 per cent more, that is or 7.5 on.

Even in the case of Fukushima, a large margin of safety was taken into consideration 40 years ago at the time of building the reactors.

Dr. Bigot said he was not aware of any lack of transparency on Areva's part and all questions were readily answered.

“You cannot start a nuclear reactor if you don't have the full confidence of the local people. “It will take time to counter and explain many things but people have to be taken into confidence first,” he said.

Dr. Bigot had detailed discussions with his Indian counterpart, Srikumar Banerjee, and reviewed the civil nuclear bilateral cooperation between the two countries. He said the EPR being built in Flamanville in France would produce electricity in the autumn of 2014 and there was a 20-month delay with new safety precautions being built in.
.

India to postpone decision on buying EPR reactors from France
Paris, September 20, 2011

Srikumar Banerjee, Chairman of India's Atomic Energy Commission, conveyed this message to French Industry Minister Eric Besson when the two met during the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) consultations which opened in Vienna. Mr. Besson said: “Dr. Banerjee said India imports only reactors which have been certified by their own authorities. The EPR has already been certified. Now they want the post-Fukushima certification.” However, he added that the Indians had conveyed this message “in a very positive manner.”

Several nuclear contracts around the world have been either frozen, delayed or cancelled as a result of the March 2011 Fukushima nuclear disaster, the worst nuclear accident to hit the planet after the Chernobyl explosion of 1986, putting into doubt the much-vaunted “nuclear renaissance.” Germany has chosen to forgo the nuclear option altogether and in France there is talk of reducing the country's dependence on nuclear energy to 50 per cent from the current 75 per cent, by 2025.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 29 Nov 2011 12:31

‘France not bound by new NSG restriction on nuclear sales to India’
French Foreign Minister Alain Juppé spoke to Siddharth Varadarajan about the state of nuclear cooperation with India

October 24, 2011

The Nuclear Suppliers Group adopted new export rules for so-called sensitive nuclear technology earlier this year. How does France propose to fulfil its promise of full civil nuclear cooperation with India given the NSG's new ban on the sale of enrichment and reprocessing technology [to countries that have not signed the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty]?

Our interpretation is that the agreement of 2008 [when the NSG made an exception for India] is still in vigour and we have no intention to change our relations with India on this point. And we support the membership of India to the NSG.

So if France were to decide on the basis of its national policy, and on the basis of an agreement with India, that it wants to export some component or aspect of enrichment and reprocessing technology to India, then the NSG rules as they stand as per the last meeting, will not come in the way. Is that correct?

Yes.

There will be no prohibition on France to sell these items to India?

We think the procurements decided in 2008 are enough to regulate those relations.

You mean the decisions of 2008?

Yes. And also based on our bilateral agreements.

In other words, the contours are set by bilateral agreement and by French national policy, and there is no prohibition at the NSG level on France as far as you see it?

No.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 29 Nov 2011 19:17

Clear enough

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Nov 2011 23:58

Is SV asking questions in Indian interests or others? Its more like revealing France's stance for others to pressure them.

Why is he worried about how France complies with NSG requirements? What goes his father or does it?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Nov 2011 00:29

ramana wrote:Is SV asking questions in Indian interests or others? Its more like revealing France's stance for others to pressure them. Why is he worried about how France complies with NSG requirements? What goes his father or does it?

His Fathers who grant daily massalla, information and guidance sit in DC. For daily update .

http://www.blogrunner.com/snapshot/t/ne ... ic_energy/

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 30 Nov 2011 13:37

Jist of the News in DINAMALAR, a Tamil daily. Supporters of KKM was threatened by unidentified telephone caller. They threatened, if they DON'T STOP supporting the functionig of NUKE REACTORS, they will be cut in to pieces and thrown in to sea. The threat was received by VICE chairman of HINDU MUNNANI, Mr.JAYAKUMAR. Poilice have styarted enquiry on this matter.

கூடங்குளம்:அணு உலை ஆதரவாளர்களுக்கு போனில் கொலை மிரட்டல்:கடலில் வெட்டி வீசுவதாக மர்ம ஆசாமி பேச்சு

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 30 Nov 2011 20:08

The threats sound remarkably familiar in similarity with those of a recently exterminated regional animal,whose patrons are desperately trying to resurrect them using their virulent DNA!

PS:X -posted from the SL thread,a report about drug smugglers caught on Delft island.

Further underscoring my points about the TN "fishermen" and their fishy activities.

The media today gave us news about several TN fishermen cauight on Delft island-off the Jaffna coast famous for its wild ponies,smuggling a huge qty. of drugs.The drugs allegedly were originally from Pakistan,and the route for Afghan and Paki drug production worldwide includes the route through Lanka via India (Kerala amd TN).The LTTE has made billions over the decades from drug running.What is intriguing about this seizure is that in response,TN fishermen,who have been ranting and raving about Lankans all the while,are now protesting and demanding the release of 100+ Lankan fishermen caught in Indian waters as far off as the A&N islands! Why so? It is because they want the drug gang caught at Delft to be likewise released!

This exactly why the CG says that the accounts of harassment by Lankans is highly exaggerated and why I've continuously maintained that there are "other players" in the Palk Straits who have their own criminal vested agenda at work.

The protests by TN fishermen at KKM have to be seen in alternative lights,not just concern for their traditional fishing grounds being affected by a rise in sea temp.,but also what enhanced security measures will be enforced once the plant starts operating.There will be heightenee maritime security in the waters off KKM to prevent a 26/11 strike against the N-plant,warnings have already gone out earlier about the same, and this will definitely have an adverse affect on the traditional occupations of smuggling by the "fishermen".

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Dec 2011 20:07

One thing is clear as arguments move on. Even if a volcano is discovered under the damn thing we will have to put 'volcano sensors' and run the nuclear plant! After an investment of ~ Rs 20,000 Crore the damn plants owns us instead of us owning it. Those in Jaitapur should keep that in mind. DIDI in retrospect did the wise thing of banning this potential nuclear millstone completely from her state. She at least doesn't have to deal with accusations of being anti-national. Stupid thing has brought nothing but grief to locals.

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http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/tam ... 675869.ece

At a meeting on November 18 at the Tirunelveli Collector's Office with representatives of the PMANE, the EG was prepared for presentation on the KKNPP design and safety features; discharges and radiation around the KKNPP; health hazard including cancer in the neighbourhood; radioactive waste management; KKNPP safety features protecting against Fukushima type of events and the global trends and the need for nuclear power generation. But, it could not deliberate on issues such as seismicity, tsunami, radiation in the environment and the impact on fishing due to the “refusal” of the representatives for such a presentation.

The EG's report, in its section 5, did refer to nuclear waste management and fresh water supply. On the question of liability, the EG felt that the subject was “beyond its scope.” Terming as an allegation the observation of the PMANE experts' panel that the Nuclear Power Corporation of India had “cut corners, compromised on safety and failed to perform statutory due diligence,” Dr. Muthunayagam said this was “not based on facts” and needed to be debated in detail, item-wise.

As for the reliance on the data of Census 2001, the convener said that even though the data of the Census 2011 were not yet available, the population could be estimated on the basis of the 2001 Census data and the country's population growth rate. There were mandatory stipulations of Atomic Energy Regulatory Board (AERB) on population. The conditions beyond them were “desirable and not mandatory.”

On the issue of environmental clearance, Dr Muthunayagam referred to the confirmation of the Union Ministry of Environment and Forests, mentioned in the EG's report, that the environmental clearance issued in May 1989 was valid for KKNPP Units 1 and 2, and there was no need of fresh public hearing and environmental clearance. Further, the comprehensive environment impact assessment (EIA) report, prepared in 2006 for KKNPP Units 3 to 6, included the EIA of KKNPP 1&2 (KKNPP Units 3-6 are similar in design as those of KKNPP 1&2) and the environmental clearances for KKNPP for Units 3 & 4 and for Units 5 & 6 were obtained in 2008 and 2009 respectively.

As for the coastal regulation zone (CRZ) clearance, he said the EG's report, in pages 2 and 12, contained facts concerning the matter.

The apprehension of scientist V.T. Padmanabhan on the catastrophic failure due to desalination plant “appears to be due to lack of understanding of the desalination capacity and the operations of the plant,” the convener said. As pointed out in the EG report, there were 3 units of the desalination plant and one stand-by unit with a capacity for 10 days operation.

The basis of the apprehensions of the PMANE leaders on volcanic eruptions and mega tsunamis were not clear, Dr Muthunayagam stated.

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http://www.countercurrents.org/raju011211.htm

The central object of the new rules, however, is to allow the Government to effectively renounce its own legal rights to seek redress against the supplier. The new rules limit the vendor’s liability to the duration of the initial license, currently just five years. If an accident happens after that, it is the Indian Government and the victims who will bear the cost. Moreover, a severe accident might destroy the reactor and cause large capital losses. Some of the newer reactors, like the EPR manufactured by Areva, can cost up to Rs. 30,000 crores. The 2010 law left open the possibility that the Government could attempt to recoup this loss from the supplier; the new rules make this impossible.

The limitation of liability to merely five of the promised 60 year lifespan of a reactor is especially problematic because all nuclear reactors face greater risks of accidents as they age. This is because many of the materials used in a reactor degrade owing to a number of causes, including irradiation, thermal loading, and corrosion. It is not even possible to examine all components within a reactor for degradation because of limited accessibility.

This sordid story is indicative of two deeper problems. The first has to do with nuclear safety. Nuclear vendors claim that an accident is almost impossible; Westinghouse puts the chance of a severe accident in its AP1000 reactor at one in two-million per each year that the reactor operates. But if an accident is indeed that unlikely, why is it unwilling to sell reactors without being indemnified?

In fact it is impossible to accurately predict the probability of an accident and the historical record of 8 independent major accidents in about 14,500 reactor-years of operation suggests that the industry significantly underestimates this risk. Moreover, a nuclear accident can cause huge losses. Some estimates put the economic damage due to Fukushima at a hundred billion dollars—about 200 times the maximum compensation allowed under the Indian law. Nuclear vendors are obviously unwilling to take even a small chance of having to pay this. The Manmohan Singh Governrment should explain why it is willing to have this risk transferred onto the Indian taxpayer.

Second, the new rules indicate a structural problem with the Liability Act: the Act takes away the rights of victims to approach the courts against the supplier. This right reposes with the Government, which often seems more concerned with appeasing the nuclear industry. This is exactly what happened in Bhopal, where the Government arrogated to itself the right to represent all the victims and then let Union Carbide off the hook.

Unless the Government withdraws its new rules and amends the Act itself to grant people their constitutional right to justice, how can it expect the locals at Kudankulam or Jaitapur to trust it on any other matter of nuclear safety?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Dec 2011 20:16

Meanwhile, at Jaitapur... ..why earthquakes are safe and good for you...

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/oth ... 657185.ece

The paper says,” “It is our opinion that insufficient data are available to exclude this possibility. With the possible exception of Koyna and Latur, which have recently been relieved of local tectonics stresses, no shallow fault between lat. 16°N and 19°N may be invulnerable to future M ≥ 6 rupture [an earthquake with a magnitude of 6 on the Richter scale] . While this may be considered of low probability, it is nevertheless possible, and as the recent earthquake in Japan has demonstrated, it is relevant to plan for all possible futures in the design of nuclear power plants.”

The paper notes that the historical seismic record near Jaitapur extends reliably back to only 200 years, with scant additional data prior to the year 1800. Due to the long interregnum between earthquakes in continental India, spanning millennia, seismic data from a few hundred years cannot be taken as a guide to future seismic hazard. Because of low strain rates, and, therefore, low seismic productivity in the plate interior, reliable hazard figures are difficult to estimate as these require a record of earthquake history over at least a 1,000 years, preferably more. Geological studies are unavailable to characterise the millennia-long seismic history.

--------------------------------------------
Give the officials props for coming out. Where is GOI in all this, only wholesale administrative reforms can get this logjam resolved. Not just about safety but about who is behind the controls and ho the buttons are pressed.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/Rucku ... nt/882187/

The first public interaction between the Nuclear Power Corporation of India (NPCIL) and opponents of the Jaitapur nuclear power project failed to build any bridges with both sides sticking to their positions and top officials heckled as they spoke.

Even though NPCIL associate director S Dharne started his talk by saying that all questions and concerns of people regarding the Jaitapur project will be answered, an impatient and agitated crowd stopped him midway through his presentation when he was making an attempt to explain how a nuclear reactor works and the safety aspects which are adhered to in a nuclear power plant.

The crowd started shouting and questioned him about the safety of employees who are deployed at a nuclear power plant, to which Dharne replied that safety of all employees is of utmost priority and all employees are well-trained in safety and other aspects before they are deployed at a plant site.

Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) Chairman Shrikumar Banerjee began his talk in English with details of the project. However, an impatient audience did not allow him to complete. Shiv Sena executive president Uddhav Thackeray who was on the dais had to intervene and urged people to at least pay attention to what he was saying, “so that they could know what they are opposing”.

The Sena which had organised the talk presented a softened stand at the end of the five-hour long debate with Thackeray saying that the party would stand by the locals. Thackeray had in the past categorically said that they would not allow the project to take off.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 02 Dec 2011 20:25

Theo_Fidel wrote:One thing is clear as arguments move on. Even if a volcano is discovered under the damn thing we will have to put 'volcano sensors' and run the nuclear plant! After an investment of ~ Rs 20,000 Crore the damn plants owns us instead of us owning it. Those in Jaitapur should keep that in mind. DIDI in retrospect did the wise thing of banning this potential nuclear millstone completely from her state. She at least doesn't have to deal with accusations of being anti-national. Stupid thing has brought nothing but grief to locals.

The very wording of your first sentence is clearly an indication of your inherent bias against the plant - that shows you have a calcified thought process about the Nuclear plant.

The second flaw (and you can be accused many times over for this) is your tendency to bring in unknown dangers - an issue very common with scare-mongering. Do you see a parallel here with religious clans that predict end of the world and whip up a frenzy? I sure do!
When was the last time a hidden volcano blew up , burnt your ass and made you fly to space? Do you even have a sense of sanity when you write this?

Why is it that the locals of 100s of other nuclear plants around the world don't complain of the grief the plants have brought to them?
And note this: the locals sway to the tunes of a bunch of people who have little to zero scientific credibility!

Enough!
You are not contributing at all to this thread and you have all the traits of a troll. You have not responded to the queries posted by several members here and you make these hit-and-run posts!
Grow a spine !

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Dec 2011 21:08

^^
Case in point. Nothing but grief. Pah!

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 02 Dec 2011 23:11

Theo_Fidel wrote:Stupid thing has brought nothing but grief to locals.

I suppose the electricity it will produce is also classified as "grief"?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 02 Dec 2011 23:32

Is one supposed to eat electricity?

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Dec 2011 00:07

Theo_Fidel wrote:Is one supposed to eat electricity?

Theo saar, you make good contributions in other forum discussions - in this one you are heavily invested emotionally. Please take a break for a while - go for a walk (or go for some hike) instead of driving down the discussions to inanity.

I would recommend that you watch the movie "Outsourced" - not a great movie - some cliche's and banality - but there is a scene where the Indian jugaad with electricity is on full display by a poor family (and they use american product for branding beef rather innovatively). So yes, one cannot eat electricity - but one can make life easier with electricity.

And nuclear electricity is the most safest and cleanest form of electricity yet to date. That is a fact., with, without and inspite of ******.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 03 Dec 2011 00:34

Theo_Fidel wrote:Meanwhile, at Jaitapur... ..why earthquakes are safe and good for you...

Give the officials props for coming out. Where is GOI in all this, only wholesale administrative reforms can get this logjam resolved. Not just about safety but about who is behind the controls and ho the buttons are pressed.

Interesting that you would ask for all the latest scientific studies from the government and when they are presented, claim that they are not enough and more is needed.

Meanwhile utter BS from Great Leader cum Anti Nuclear Messiah Udaykumar such as "TN has 10000 MW solar energy potential out of which even 8000 is enough to solve all of TN's power issues" goes unchallenged by you.

Pray elucidate us on the following about your Great Leader's statement:

Where does the land required to generate 8000 MW from solar panels come from?
Where does water required to clean the panels come from? Isn't TN suffering from water shortage?

Why do you repeatedly shoot and scoot and not answer valid questions about your beliefs?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Dec 2011 01:29

disha wrote:And nuclear electricity is the most safest and cleanest form of electricity yet to date. That is a fact.

This is merely your opinion. That is all.

The question still stands, what do the locals get out of this other than the random 'Gaalis'.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 03 Dec 2011 01:53

a state of tns size an population needs 50k mw of electricity to get western level per capita consumption. Udaykumar is a bluffing @##@$@@

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 03 Dec 2011 02:07

^^^ Beyond the obvious "what happens at night" type of questions, it is amazing that no one challenges him when he puts up 8000 MW solar BS and the practicalities involved.

IT is interesting that the nuclear plant will *provide* desalinated water and solar will *require* water, yet solar is better. Jai Ho.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 03 Dec 2011 02:35

Theo_Fidel wrote:Is one supposed to eat electricity?

So anything that doesn't produce food is useless?

And how exactly is the plant leading to starvation amongst the locals? I don't remember even the protesters making that ridiculous argument.

Comparing your posts in this thread to those you make in other threads, one would be lead to believe someone has hacked your account.

disha · Post by **disha** » 03 Dec 2011 07:48

Theo_Fidel wrote:
disha wrote:And nuclear electricity is the most safest and cleanest form of electricity yet to date. That is a fact.
This is merely your opinion. That is all.

The question still stands, what do the locals get out of this other than the random 'Gaalis'.

Theo - <dropping the saar part>

If one cuts through all the subjectivities involved, and with an unbiased approach - then yes nuclear electricity is by far the most safest and the cleanest form of mass energy.

Regarding the locals getting the "gaalis"., can you first explain how come the locals are getting "gaalis" now? What did the "locals" do recently to get "gaalis".

Again please take a step back and try not to dig into a positions like "Is one supposed to eat electricity?". It is like asking you "what will you do with gobar gas"? To you it might be gobar and gas, to others it is shakti.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 03 Dec 2011 08:54

^^^ Beyond the obvious "what happens at night" type of questions, it is amazing that no one challenges him when he puts up 8000 MW solar BS and the practicalities involved.

IT is interesting that the nuclear plant will *provide* desalinated water and solar will *require* water, yet solar is better. Jai Ho.

There is a weird human tendency to believe in miracles while have a disregard for science . People tend to get conned by "herbal remedies"" for weight-loss , height gain or cancer cure. Con tricksters use the innate sense of human insecurity and gullibility to there advantage. The villagers could hardly understand science or international politics like we do . So they were easy to fool.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 03 Dec 2011 10:58

gakakkad wrote:Con tricksters use the innate sense of human insecurity and gullibility to there advantage. The villagers could hardly understand science or international politics like we do . So they were easy to fool.

We can keep debating for eternity. The protester-leaders have been given enough time and patient hearing and they remain unreasonable. I quote from what I said before.

Now, some of those spearheading the agitation might be genuinely opposed to nuclear energy (similar people are in large numbers all over the world), some others might have fears about their lives and livelihood and yet some others might have an entirely different agenda. We can do nothing about the first category except ignoring them until they become a nuisance with law and order issues. The second category can be 'converted' through genuine efforts by GoI/TN/DAE and discussions at their level. The third category of people and their backers must be isolated and dealt with severely.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 03 Dec 2011 12:34

My concern is that if the protests take the shape of "intransigence"; a great opportunity to truly reform the Nuclear energy sector to enable a safer, secure and more independent (from external pressures) environment will be lost.

Clearly, either the Indian nuclear sector is at cross roads, and the the intentions of the people at the very top are quite opaque as regards to Indian intrests in the matter. If the people too -- take a position which is not reasonable but let themselves get swayed by external agents -- then the country is in for a tough time.

The people should look at forcing the GoI to adopt the Kalam plan, maybe with some added elements, in a quid pro quo

That is if
Govt does X from the Kalam plan -- protesters will allow for Y.

Somewhat like what Anna's team did with Lokpal bill.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 03 Dec 2011 20:02

SSridhar wrote:
Now, some of those spearheading the agitation might be genuinely opposed to nuclear energy (similar people are in large numbers all over the world), some others might have fears about their lives and livelihood and yet some others might have an entirely different agenda. We can do nothing about the first category except ignoring them until they become a nuisance with law and order issues. The second category can be 'converted' through genuine efforts by GoI/TN/DAE and discussions at their level. The third category of people and their backers must be isolated and dealt with severely.

Precisely ..

The third category includes eelamist 'mercenaries' and people like Bidwai who are on contract with the Chinese .They think that by targeting koodankulam they ll be able to halt ATV. Besides this there is also a 2nd group of people who were installed by western companies with the hope of gaining an oopri haath in Indian energy market . (Uday kumar probably ). When they realised that their interests coincided , they started acting in synergy .

The problem is that the government is unwilling to act in the best action of the nation. They are still waiting and watching , to see which side the political scales tip . Which other country would a guy like Uday kumar have lasted this long ? At the very least , he would have been deported. And more probably , kidnapped and quadrified .. But sadly , in India he is more likely to be given an election ticket if he becomes popular.

The scientist are extremely unhappy with the government response , or rather the lack of it .

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Dec 2011 02:41

The Q to ask all these "fishy-folk" martyrs to the cause of anti-KKM,anti N-power for India,ad nauseum,is what the bleedin' hell were they doing for decades when in their "motherland" of Tamilnadu they allowed the Kalpakkam facility to exist without protest and evn grown in number of reactors ,which will in the future include "fast breeders" (no mischievous connotations here believe you me!).There is a strange silence (attention now on the damned dam in Kerala perhaps?) from the "Mother" of all mothers,as she rules a state which is reeling from power shortages,and has actually demanded a huge upping from KKM as the plant is in TN! That indicates her interest in KKM absolutely!

Our "fishy-folk" though are of a different breed.They can be switched on and off at the flick of the wrist.Their motives are deviant and clearly anti-national,as they simply refuse to engage in an honest debate with our most eminent scientists,believing in their own home-spun spinning on KKM's safety and N-power in general.As the deadline for operating the plant nears,the anti-national brigade must be identified and "quarantined",while cases are brought to book against the lot.Under no circumstances should this insidious attempt to sabotage our N-plant and N-ambitions derailed by these quislings.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 04 Dec 2011 03:42

Theo avargal i have read all the posts you have made, may i request you to list out your reasons to oppose this project

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 04 Dec 2011 10:38

Take it for its worth but I feel the link below is in the same context of "fears" being propped up to undermine national interests and unity.

Mullaperiyar Dam and Sabarimala: The religious roots of the Controversy

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 04 Dec 2011 13:37

This BIG U turn is in their own business interests !!
Australia's ruling party favours uranium sale to India

Prabu · Post by **Prabu** » 04 Dec 2011 13:51

KUDANKULAM WILL START PRODUCTION SOON - GK.Vasan, Central Minister
கூடங்குளத்தில் விரைவில் மின் உற்பத்தி: வாசன்

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 05 Dec 2011 04:26

suryg,

It is a misconception that I oppose this project. I oppose it as it is structured at present.
------------------------------------

Meanwhile, one little data point in a transforming world. The present high cost nuclear hard sell makes a lot of sense.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/fea ... ef=wl_home

The recently-concluded bidding process for supplying solar power under the Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission (Phase 1, Batch 2) has seen aggressive bids as low as Rs 7.5 per unit,(BTW this is Rs 7.50 guaranteed for 25 years! In 2034 electricity from this unit will still cost Rs 7.50. Think on it.) bringing the long-anticipated ‘grid parity' — matching the cost of solar power to conventional power costs — much closer than even the most optimistic projections two years ago. The sharp drop in prices of photo-voltaic (PV) modules, by as much as 50 per cent in the last one year, and anticipation of a further drop in PV prices, has been the key driver for this unprecedented development.

In the medium term, if the current pattern of price fall continues, several other sources of power generation, such as biomass, wind power and nuclear energy could turn more expensive than solar power. Companies dependent on these sectors, such as equipment and component manufacturers, should take cognisance of such a development on their future prospects. (namely if they don't sell stuff soon they will be out of business.)

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 05 Dec 2011 06:23

theoji , solar and wind generation is suited as supplement in peak load conditions - generally reached in hot summers (b/c of refrigeration and air conditioning needs ) , when generation from solar and wind tends to be highest in hot summers.
Also the efficiencies of installed wattage is quite low for wind and solar (~0.2) over the whole year.
Whereas thermal and nuke plants are best suited for addressing base load since their efficiency of installed wattage is quite high (~0.9), i.e
Solar installed 20,000MW = 4,000 MW onlee net
Nuclear installed 20,000MW=18,000 MW net.

So if india with an industrial output growing at 14% and increasing urbanisation needs to address the ever increasing base load , nuclear energy is inevitable.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Dec 2011 06:40

Nuclear Safety: Apex Court to Hear NGO's Petition Today

An application has been filed before the Supreme Court with copies of letters and documents sent to the Prime Minister highlighting the concerns on safety and cost-effectiveness of the nuclear plants in India.

The application was filed earlier this week by NGOs Common Cause and Centre for Public Interest Litigation as well as some prominent citizens.

On November 14, acting on the Public Interest Litigation (PIL) filed by these NGOs and citizens, a Bench headed by the Chief Justice, Mr S.H. Kapadia, had asked the petitioners to first write to the Government on the matter.

The apex court had adjourned the matter saying it would consider the petition only after the petitioners show that they had moved the concerned department regarding their grievances.

It will now hear the matter again on December 5.

Advocate Mr Prashant Bhushan, representing the petitioners, had said that they had already written to the Department of Atomic Energy about the concerns on nuclear safety but the Government failed to take any action despite their representations.

The petitioners in the PIL include the two NGOs as well as prominent persons such as former Cabinet Secretary Mr T.S.R. Subramanian, former Chief Election Commissioner, Mr N. Gopalaswami, and former Navy Chief Admiral L. Ramdas.

They wanted the apex court asking to direct that an independent expert body conduct a thorough safety re-assessment of the country's existing and proposed nuclear facilities.

The PIL also sought the court's direction for the expert body to carry out a thorough cost-benefit analysis of all proposed nuclear facilities and a comparative cost-benefit analysis vis-à-vis other sources of energy.

The petitioners also wanted the court to “issue an appropriate writ cancelling clearances given to the proposed nuclear power plants and staying all proposed nuclear power plants till the requisite safety assessment studies, thorough comparative cost-benefit analysis and meaningful public hearings are carried out by or under the supervision of an independent expert body.”

The new application of the petitioners said that a recent BBC survey said 77 per cent of Indians do not support the building of nuclear plants.

Most countries have not installed any nuclear reactors in the last 25-30 years, it said, adding that nuclear energy has been on a decline due to its costs and risks.

But the Government has decided to install mega-nuclear parks costing lakhs of crores of rupees without any safety analysis, it said.

“This reckless expansion of nuclear energy could have potentially disastrous consequences for the people of the country and therefore violates their right to life and environment.

In a densely populated country like India, a nuclear accident can affect lakhs of people,” it said.

The documents along with this application include letters written on the issue by several citizens including former Secretary (Finance) and nuclear physicist, Dr E.A.S. Sarma, to the Prime Minister, who is the minister-in-charge of the Department of Atomic Energy, and to the Power Ministry.