West Asia News and Discussions (YEMEN, gulf)

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Shanmukh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Shanmukh »

Paul wrote:Turkey needs to reclaim its hinterlands in the crimea and caucasus to reclaim its vigour and reclaim its status as the top dog in the Islamic world. That clash is coming. They know it and the Russians know it as well. This will be an additional headache they can do without.

If Russia falls apart, Turkey will be a major beneficiary.
The real hinterland (or the front yard, if you like) of Turkey was the Balkans. If the Turks can take Bulgaria, Albania, Greece, Kosovo, Macedonia and Bosnia, they can once more be a very powerful state. Given just how depleted of people Balkans and Romania are, I don't even expect any resistance to the Turks till they reach the Pannonian plain and Serbia. Hungary and Serbia might put up some resistance, but none of the others have any martial spirit left (I don't know about Bulgaria, though). What the Turks should start doing to reclaim their old lands is to start infiltrating the excess population of West Asia and North Africa into the Balkans. Given the high fertility of the new immigrants and the depleted populations of the Balkans, they can expect to have a more successful siege of the walls of Vienna in 50 years.

Sure, Georgia might help the Turks, but that part of the Caucasus was always more Persian than Turkish (Armenia, Azerbaijan & the Caspian regions like Ingushtia, Dagestan, etc were Persian until late 1700s or even early 1800s.)
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

>> Bulgaria, Albania, Greece, Kosovo, Macedonia and Bosnia

ROP tabliqs raising their calls in this region will be one massive headache for nato. they are barely able to control the N.african influx by sea.

but rules are rules. water will always flow under gravity and osmotic pressure.

if Taiwan/Japan/Soko/Singapore had not invested in china to develop its coastline, those millions now making a beeline for shenzhen would be making a beeline for the nearest fishing boat :)

europe has tried to keep all its prosperity for itself than develop its peripheral lands and ensure other magnetic areas.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

Analyzing Oman

2. The Omani Identity:Delving into the psyche of how Omani's are distinct from other Arabs. What are the major influences on Oman history. What are the distinct fault lines in Oman? Is Ibadism, really the defining identity of Oman? Who are the major power players in Oman?


Here is part 2 of the Series. I will be updating Part1: Forget Chahbhar, Socotra & Dubai, Here's Oman-Oman's Geopolitical Importance to India in a subsequent piece. If I don't put this up and start, I guess it will forever be stuck in limbo.

Disclaimer: This is a personal opinion piece wherein I have tried to distill my experiences in the Gulf states, particularly Oman into a short article showing that out of the GCC countries, Oman holds out from the rest. Positioned at the tip of the Gulf, with slightly better relationships to India, I believe that this is a country which needs our special attention and understanding



A quick look at Oman perched on the South East tip of the Arabian Peninsula gives an idea of how Oman is in a way on the fringes of what we imagine as Arabia. Shaped by geography, history and trade links over the ages Oman has developed an identity slightly distinct and oriented from the other Arab nations in the Peninsula.

2.1.1 Oman Geography- For the benefit of the readers unacquainted with the Geography of Oman, let’s quickly put down a short description of the geography of Oman.

Political Map:
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Physical Map:
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Most of the population lives in Muscat and the narrow coastal strip around the Batinah coast. The Al Wusta, Ad Dhahirah & ad Dakhiliya regions have traditionally been barren and part of the desert. In fact the Rub al Khali, or Empty Quarter extends into Oman through the ad Dhahiriyah and al Wusta Regions- And it is here that the oil fields of Oman lies. Dhofar on the southern border adjoining Yemen has been always distinct with the people clinging on to their culture. It is Muscat which is the focus of Oman, the traditional trading sea port melting pot of cultures. Today Muscat and its suburbs account for about 1/3rd of the population.

2.1.2 Key Events in Recent History of Oman

1) Trade with Africa. For over a thousand years Oman has been at the forefront of trade (ivory, wood, gold and most improtantly slaves) with East Africa, till it was forcefully displaced by the new rising power- Britain. Mombasa, Zanzibar were all Omani colonies. Till some time ago, Zanzibar was an integral part of Oman (Influence can be seen in the large number of Zanzibari's who are present in Oman (still speak Swahili).Even today, Zanzibari's are slightly looked down upon by Omani-Omani's who still refer to them in personal conversations as lowclass/ slave/ miskeen. In fact in the mid 19th century, for a time the capital of Oman was shifted to Zanzibar. The kingdom was split between the two royal princes with ‘British mediation’ with Zanzibar becoming separate

2) Relationships with Indian Sub-Continent: Trade fuelled the Omani relationship with the sub-continent and till about fifty five years ago, parts of the Makran coast of Baluchistan (including the famous Gwadar and Chah Bahar ports) belonged to Oman. In fact there is a distint sub-group of Omani's settled primarily around the old trading port of Muscat who speak fluent Urdu and have been at the forefront when it has come to taking jobs. In fact during the Dhofar revolution, it was the Balushi's or Baluchi's who formed a sizeable portion of the support for the Sultan. In fact a telling quote on this comes from the Sultan himself where he differentiates the Omani attitude from other Gulf states, which nurse pan-Arab dreams-"While other Gulf Arabs prefer to get on a camel and go west into the Arab desert, Omanis prefer to be on a boat and drift towards India."


3) The Jebel Akhdar War- During the early part of the twentieth century, Oman was split into two parts, coastal Muscat under control of the Sultan and the Interior Oman, west of the Jebel Akhdar mountains, under control of the religious Ibadi Imam based out of Nizwa. Post discovery of oil, there was fallout between the Sultan and the Imam. With the aid of the British (SAS and RAF mainly) the Sultan gained control over the whole of Oman. For quite some time till late fifties, the rebellion festered on with active connivance of the Saudi’s who provided help and shelter to the ousted Imam. Even today, there is lingering distrust with the Saudi’s because of this. Also, Nizwa and its surroundings continue to be the most conservative region of Oman and there are underlying differences with other Omani’s. A good read on the war can be found here.


4) Dhofar revolution and ascension of Qaboos bin Said to the throne of Oman- Following the overthrow of the Imam, the current Sultan’s father followed an extremely isolationist policy (perhaps fearful of the changes that British and American influences were causing in neighboring Trucial states and Bahrain). His policies of isolation and concentration of power led to an uprising (abetted by USSR, China, Saudi) in Dhofar. In a few years time the communist rebels over ran half the country, and it was at this juncture that with British help the current Sultan took over reins of power (Two excellent books, albeit from a slightly British perspective are:
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While the military campaign (helped by the Brits and Iranians –under the Shah) weakened the rebels and drove them back it was the Sultan’s focus on development and efforts to spread oil riches among the population that finally killed the rebellion. A lot of the powerful ministers and oligopolistic business houses who dominate the Omani landscape today were among the first supporters of the Sultan who grew as the newly founded Sultanate grew (something like the chaebols of Korea).

5) Relationship to other GCC Arab countries- In a way Omani's are looked down upon by other petro rich Arab countries because of their comparatively poorer state. Travel around GCC and you can immediately notice the differences. Except for Bahrain, which basically is a non-entity, nowhere else do you see locals working in blue collar jobs. Omani's have to. At one time, Oman, or rather Muscat + Nizwa, held were the most powerful country in Arabia. Over time it has ceded territory to all it's neighbors (mostly peacefully) but fault lines exist. Refer The Buraimi Dispute to see the rift with Saudi Arabia. If one were to look at the map of Oman, one can see numerous enclaves like Rowdah, Musandum and Mahda which are embedded within UAE- legacies of past unresolved disputes.

Even today there are rumours that UAE (primarily Abu Dhabi) is interested in the area and in 2011, there were rumours that some very senior retired Army and Air Force officers were arrested following an attempted coup plot instigated by UAE (the primary trigger was the capture of two Land Rovers of Pakistani citizens of UAE who had been distributing money during the Arab Spring protest in Sohar and had a large collection of unauthorized communication and arms).

An effect of this can be observed at the Oman- UAE border which till five years ago was relatively free, but today the entire border area which runs mostly of unpopulated barren land has been fenced and the government is putting up charitable social housing projects and building up infrastructure to stake its claim.

6) Arab Spring and effects on Oman- In a society which is not as affluent as neighboring Gulf countries; where locals feel that expatriates have taken over their jobs leading to youth unemployment and there were a select few that have benefited from the state (corrupt ministers), protests erupted in Sohar and Salalah in Feb 2011. What set this apart from other Arab Spring protests were the fact that protesters came out with pictures of the Sultan with slogans like “You are our Father listen to us. Help us.”
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In a way the protests were both an affirmation of their expressed loyalty for the Sultan and complaints against the current set of Ministers. The most violent incidents were torching of a Lulu in Sohar and police firing killing a few people when they tried ransacking a police center to free some detained protesters. The Sultan reacted firmly and quickly to announce a new round of job creation through the Ministries (primarily in Royal Oman Police and Army), sacking two high level ministers (including his perceived left hand man- Macki, the Economy Minister and the chief of Royal Oman Police (his perceived right hand man). At the same time, Oman availed of loans from a fund (for the first time in it’s history) setup by UAE and Saudi in GCC to help governments overcome such protest and installed a unemployment dole (this is significant because even in the face of a major disaster –Cyclone Gonu, Oman government had not taken any help from others. In a country without electricity, fresh water and food for seven days the government had turned back trucks from UAE with relief supplies to stress their independence- This is hearsay from people who were present here at that time).


2.2.1 All Arabs Are Created Equal But Some Are More Equal Than Others-
Of all the GCC Arabs, Omani's stand out in their dress from the rest. perhaps under the current Sultan, this distinction from other Arabs, a distinct National identity has been emphasized. This distinction is not superficial, and traveling through the Gulf, one gets a distinct sense that Omani's tend to hold on to an identity which is different.
ImageImage

Going back through time, Oman has been a sea faring nation with ties more to the East along the IOR Rim, than to the rest of the Arabian Peninsula. If one were to go through the histories of Mombasa, Tanzania, one can see the Omani influence. Another distinction is that all other GCC states are ruled by Sunni’s and have their jurisprudence based on Sunni interpretation but Oman is Ibadi.



2.2.2 Splits within Oman: Modern Oman is a new construct, less than fifty years only. Only with the ascension to the throne of the current Sultan did the country change its name from Sultanate of Muscat and Oman to Sultanate of Oman. Scratch the surface and you find tribal and regional identities. There are religious, tribal and regional groupings which have been held together under the firm and unifying rule of the Sultan, but there are still centrifugal tendencies.


This is end of part A of this section. Will come back with more by the weekend. Could any guru's give me an idea of how I can upload a few images of pie-charts or like into a post?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

Self Delete: Duplicate
vinod
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vinod »

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:2) Relationships with Indian Sub-Continent:[/i] Trade fuelled the Omani relationship with the sub-continent and till about fifty five years ago, parts of the Makran coast of Baluchistan (including the famous Gwadar and Chah Bahar ports) belonged to Oman. In fact there is a distint sub-group of Omani's settled primarily around the old trading port of Muscat who speak fluent Urdu and have been at the forefront when it has come to taking jobs. In fact during the Dhofar revolution, it was the Balushi's or Baluchi's who formed a sizeable portion of the support for the Sultan. In fact a telling quote on this comes from the Sultan himself where he differentiates the Omani attitude from other Gulf states, which nurse pan-Arab dreams-"While other Gulf Arabs prefer to get on a camel and go west into the Arab desert, Omanis prefer to be on a boat and drift towards India."
I remember old timers talking about omani's coming to Kerala to fight against European powers. May be confused with other arabs! Anyway, this was triggered by the loss of trade due to European's finding a way to India.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Mukesh.Kumar »

vinod wrote:vinod
I remember old timers talking about omani's coming to Kerala to fight against European powers. May be confused with other arabs! Anyway, this was triggered by the loss of trade due to European's finding a way to India.
Vinod- Yes the Omani's have had a long history of fighting with the Europeans who came to take over the trade routes. If you delve into the history of the Swahili coast you will find numerous incidents. Notable among them would be the wresting of control of Fort Jesus in Mombasa from the Portuguese in mid- seventeenth century.

Addendum: Omani Identity/2.1.2 Key Events in Recent History of Oman/5) Relationship to other GCC Arab countries

Oman- UAE Relationship- UAE which was formed in 1971 by agglomeration of the seven emirates, used to be more of city states. The huge expanse of UAE territory above Oman, was mostly empty. And Iranians and Omani traders used to dominate the Dubai market. When Sheikh Zayed first started his campaign of becoming more powerful, by using oil money, Dubai also started doing the same. At this time when questioned about loyalty many of the Omani's who were originally from the Liwa Area in Northern Batinah coast, and had moved to Dubai to trade, intermarried and kind of settled down started switching loyalties to the Emirs of Abu Dhabi and Dubai. One of the contributing factors were their dislike of the then Sultan- Taimur (Qaboos's father). After coming to power in 1970, Qaboos tried to win over these populations through dialogue, but being unable to do so, he decided the best thing would be to give the land north of the mountains to the newly formed UAE. Even now there have are feelings of animosity among the population. And in fact the seventies saw assassination attempts on Qaboos first from these areas. Similarly, later on there have been assassination attempts on him from among the population in the Sharqiya region. Additionally, in the mid-nineties, there was another coup which was nipped in the bud when a member of the Bahwan family tried to establish a regional power base in Sur- kind of trying to become the local strongman.

Oman- Saudi Relationship: A major urban legend goes that recently, circa 2009, there was a series of survey carried out by oil companies on the Saudi-Oman border near the Empty Quarter. But the reports submitted to Oman government was there is no oil. Within a year, there were a series of raids by unidentified men on the scattered hamlets there. Post which the Oman government investigated and found that high officials in charge of the survey in the Ministries had been bribed to turn in a blank report and actually there was a strong possibility of sizable oil reserves in the area because of which Saudi personnel had been trying to scare off people along the loosely demarcated boundary in the desert. This has led to quite a bit of bad blood among the neighbors.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Netanyahu last attempt to scuttle the N deal between Iran and P-5 ?

Netanyahu warns America that Iran is an 'enemy,' not a partner
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JE Menon »

^^No he's trying to suck up to the Gulfies. Understandable. It's just building up credentials... Israel knows which way the US is heading, but what can be extracted from the current situation is Sunni (i.e. GCC + Egypt) goodwill with a few statements the Israelis know will have minimal impact in the short-term on American decisions.

Is it the right thing to do under the circumstances? Iffy. Maybe yes, maybe no. Either way, Israel seems to have (unwisely in my opinion) bet against Iran with no known bridges still unburned.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Aditya_V »

Well or the other way, which Arab country can do the opposite to what Israel is doing publically. I am sure Americans have enough influence with bibi to make such statements so resistence in the Arab world becomes muted.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by JE Menon »

^^Not sure I understand what you mean. Could you please clarify/elaborate?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

JE Menon wrote:^^No he's trying to suck up to the Gulfies. Understandable. It's just building up credentials... Israel knows which way the US is heading, but what can be extracted from the current situation is Sunni (i.e. GCC + Egypt) goodwill with a few statements the Israelis know will have minimal impact in the short-term on American decisions.

Is it the right thing to do under the circumstances? Iffy. Maybe yes, maybe no. Either way, Israel seems to have (unwisely in my opinion) bet against Iran with no known bridges still unburned.
Let's not forget that if Israel is publicly against the deal, then Iranian negotiators would have an easier time selling the deal to their hardliners and people.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Aditya_V »

Well, Iran being a predominantly Shia country is opposed by much of Sunni Arab states which will openly cry betrayal and get sympathy from Arab public which then oppose the deal.

Now if Israel, the Zionists opposes the deal, in the Arab public mind, Iran must be doing something right, so Arab leaders cannot public ally oppose this rapprochement.

Agree with Rajesh A point too, it might be aimed at the Iranian public as a victory against Israel.

Surely this deal cannot be worse for the Israelis than Saudi's having DF 21 D's and Pakistan having similair nukes which are transportable along ballistic missiles since the 90's?
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vinod »

BBC is running a special "Syria" focussed reporting.. I wonder what is brewing!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by vijaykarthik »

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/c ... 587601.ece

Interesting article which talks about the Sykes-Picot agreement, how dumb it actually is [paints its very quickly] and also the fallacies and follies.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by wig »

22 vedic brahmins from Karnataka conduct homa for Sultan of Oman.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 124292.cms
excerpts
Chandrashekar Swami and a 22-member team of vedic brahmins were recently flown in to Muscat to perform this ritual.

The team left for Muscat last week and are staying in Muscat as the guests of the Sultan. An advisor to the sultan who hails from Gujarat is getting the ritual organized, Chandrashekar Swami told Bangalore Mirror.

"We are in Muscat and a special camp site has been created at Barkha town, 41 kilometers from Muscat airport, to perform the five-day homa. A large number of people, especially Indians settled here, are coming to take part in the homa being conducted by 22 Vedic Brahmins. The ailing Sultan believes that the homa will do him good. Some of the royal family members are also taking part in the ritual," the Swami added.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by member_24684 »

.Lesson to alone Naval Ships ..!!!


Egypt: Navy ship attacked by gunmen in Mediterranean

Gunmen have attacked an Egyptian navy ship in the Mediterranean Sea, state media say, leaving five servicemen injured and eight more missing at sea.

The vessel reportedly caught fire in the assault, some 70km (45 miles) off the northern port of Damietta.

Four boats were used in the assault by "terrorists" and 32 attackers were arrested, the military said.

The Egyptian navy frequently intercepts migrant smugglers and drug traffickers off its Mediterranean coast.

The army is also facing an Islamist insurgency in the restive Sinai Peninsula, where jihadists have stepped up attacks against police and soldiers since the overthrow of Islamist President Mohammed Morsi last year.

However, direct attacks on Egyptian naval vessels are unusual.

The group behind the latest attack has not yet been identified.
'Air force deployed'

According to Reuters, four gunmen were killed after they opened fire at the navy vessel from a fishing boat on Wednesday.

Local media reported that the Egyptian air force had been deployed to deal with the attackers.

Those captured were being interrogated, the military said.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-30030767
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Post by vijaykarthik »

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Foreign-Po ... amic-State

Poll on Arab opinion on IS. Interesting stats there.

Me thinks Iraq and Lebanon are most -'ve because of experiencing it first hand. Egypt perhaps because of recent frustrations with Islamists. [However will be it any different under FM Al-Susu?]
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by kmkraoind »

Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi calls for attacks in Saudi Arabia
"O sons of al-Haramayn (Saudi Arabia)...the serpent's head and the stronghold of the disease are there...draw your swords and divorce life, because there should be no security for the Saloul," Baghdadi said, using a derogatory term to refer to the leadership of Saudi Arabia.
Saudis, thought spreading wahabism and throwing some crumbs would pacify ummah, but when theology takes precedence over kings, Saudi kings will too become toast. Even if one buffer zone (Jordan and Shia Iraq) collapses, the Saudis will become next target for ISIS (oils and holiest places). Saudi Royals → Wahabism → ISIS → End of Saudi Royals

Karma is the ultimate law, nothing can escape from it.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

the saudi royals have long paid off the makkah ulema to let them enjoy decadent pleasures abroad and in security of their vast palaces while the ulema and religious police have a free run with the whip on anyone outside of aramco townships.

ISIS is finally calling its bluff on that.

http://nypost.com/2012/10/07/saudis-gone-wild/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... oyals.html
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Post by vijaykarthik »

Looks like Al-Quaeda and IS have approximately kissed and allegedly made up. At least at the tactical level.
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http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... s13%2F11RS
MUSCAT, Oman — Monther al-Futeisi, an engineering student, was taking an exam on electromagnetics last week when Omani ruler Sultan Qaboos bin Said Al Said suddenly appeared on television. Murmurs spread through his classroom at Sultan Qaboos University. Futeisi, 22, had been studying for the test for a week, but when he heard from his classmates that the sultan was speaking, he put down his exam paper and left the room to watch. This was more important than electromagnetics. Work and school halted all across the sultanate of 4 million people. It was the first time since July, when the 73-year-old sultan traveled to Germany for medical treatment, that Omanis had heard their leader's voice. Rumors had been festering that Qaboos was terminally ill or perhaps even dead. When he finally appeared on television, the sultan was alive but looked frail. And he had some distressing news: The overwhelmingly popular autocrat with no heir announced that he would not return for the country's national day on Nov. 18. "I. Some Omanis fear that after he dies, royal infighting could destabilize the country. Others worry that old ethnic and tribal conflicts could resurface in the southern region of Dhofar or in the mountainous interior.
"I truly feel that the future is mysterious and foggy and impossible to predict," said Ahmed Marhoon, a 23-year-old Omani blogger who often writes on politics. "I liken the future of Oman to throwing dice." Such concerns stem from the unusual transition of power laid forth in the Omani constitution, which states that within three days of the throne falling vacant, a council of royal family members should choose the next sultan. If they cannot agree, they are to open a letter naming Qaboos's recommendation -- until now, a secret. J.E. Peterson, an historian and analyst of the Persian Gulf, thinks the most likely candidates to follow Qaboos are the sons of his uncle Tariq: Assad, Shihab, and Haitham. Peterson could not predict which one, though. "I don't even know whether the three brothers have agreed upon it themselves, which I think is a very worrying aspect," Peterson said. It is unlikely, though, that the next ruler will change Oman's foreign policy, said James Worrall, a lecturer in international relations and Middle East studies at the University of Leeds. Oman is a bit like an aloof relative in a family prone to bitter feuds: friendly with all, close to none. Even as other Gulf countries railed against Iranian influence, Oman signed a 25-year deal to import Iranian natural gas in March. And though Oman belongs to the Gulf Cooperation Council, it has always been somewhat apart from the group, resisting proposals from Saudi Arabia for a closer union. It is likely to remain a dependable Western ally.
Internal affairs are a different matter. "It is clear that the new ruler will not have the level of legitimacy as Qaboos," Worrall said. "It would be impossible for that to be the case." When a new sultan comes to power, he will need to appease different branches of the ruling family, gain the support of influential merchants, and renegotiate alliances with other key players. "This sultan has been so dominant that anyone who wants some kind of change, this will now be the moment," said Mark Katz, a professor of government and politics at George Mason University. A more realistic possibility is that Ibadi Muslims in the interior could try to revive the independent religious government that they lived under periodically from the eighth century until the 1950s. Ibadism, a third sect of Islam after the Sunni and Shiite branches, predominates in Oman, though the government does not release any official statistics on sectarianism. Historically, the Ibadis have called for rule by an elected imam. "There have been other periods in history when the imamate has been suppressed and has come back," Katz said. "Anyone looking for an authentically Omani form of rule … that would be a possibility." (Most Omanis do not think that idea is viable.) In a Nov. 9 interview with the pan-Arab newspaper Asharq Al-Awsat, Yusuf bin Alawi, Oman's "minister responsible for foreign affairs" (technically, the sultan is the foreign minister), said there was no worry over the future. "The country's citizens do not want to leave the path they have been on, and it is a clear path," he said. "The country's citizens do not want to leave the path they have been on, and it is a clear path," he said.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Before Qaboos goes, he should sign an Instrument of Accession to India! :wink:
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Why?? India has enough problems as it is. As long as India-Oman relations are on an even footing everything is fine.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

Bheeshma wrote:Why?? India has enough problems as it is. As long as India-Oman relations are on an even footing everything is fine.
To Get Beachhead to spread our thread , bang few heads and shoot the terrorists dead.
Last edited by Prem on 15 Nov 2014 04:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

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Something K-15's and Nirbhay cannot do from Subs?
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Post by RajeshA »

Bheeshma wrote:Something K-15's and Nirbhay cannot do from Subs?
No. Sometimes ground forces are needed!
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Post by member_23370 »

Well, lets be realistic. IN or IAF base would be great.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

Bheeshma wrote:Why?? India has enough problems as it is. As long as India-Oman relations are on an even footing everything is fine.
Not everything is a problem. It can also be an opportunity.

Image

- If a military power were to sit in Oman, that power would control 20% of world's Oil that passes through the Straits of Hormuz!
- Basically one would be able to put a sword on the neck of Saudis and Wahhabis and Qataris and UAE Emiratis who fund the whole Jihad in the world, and force them to stop. All Gulf Sheikhs would be at the mercy of the military power sitting in Oman.

India does not need to do anything, other than sit in Oman peacefully and the whole Jihadi factory of the world would go in a tizzy and start yellowing their Kaftans.

Pakistan would lose its most prominent of the four fathers - Saudi Arabia. Basically India sitting in Oman, means we take over the guardianship of all the Sheikhs in the Persian Gulf, and make them do all that we want! It is check-mate!

I know it is a crazy idea, but if Sultan Qaboos wants to leave a lasting legacy and ensure that his country is not burned down like Syria and Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia, then accession to India makes perfect sense! There is no other power that can ensure that!
nachiket
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by nachiket »

Let me get this straight. You want to give Indian citizenship to 3.6 million Arabs? :shock:
RajeshA
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RajeshA »

nachiket wrote:Let me get this straight. You want to give Indian citizenship to 3.6 million Arabs? :shock:
:D

Well in exchange for 309,000 sq. kms of the most geo-strategically important real-estate! Yes! One has to look at what one is getting in return!
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

RajeshA wrote:
nachiket wrote:Let me get this straight. You want to give Indian citizenship to 3.6 million Arabs? :shock:D Well in exchange for 309,000 sq. kms of the most geo-strategically important real-estate! Yes! One has to look at what one is getting in return!
They can be the Arbharati Autonomous Region/s of India with full internal autonomy. Base in Kurdistan and in Oman will be the nice Thread of Peace binding the region with India. Asad might help in grabbing the Neck and Balls of made of oil and their heart and mind will obey the every little squeeeeze.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by habal »

last week I was in a hospital in socialist republic and the next room was occupied by Omanis who came for an operation. They had a translator with them, these guys did not seem to be highly educated and were last seen running from room to room creating a ruckus. Maybe they were surprised at seeing so many women walking around. But they are here most of the time anyways, so it's no big deal.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ashish raval »

he saudi royals have long paid off the makkah ulema to let them enjoy decadent pleasures abroad and in security of their vast palaces while the ulema and religious police have a free run with the whip on anyone outside of aramco townships.

ISIS is finally calling its bluff on that.

http://nypost.com/2012/10/07/saudis-gone-wild/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... oyals.html
I had posted about it on BR about five years back. Summer of these Saud's are invariably in London and Paris and their exclusive nightclubs while in winter these chaps go to north africa to catch sun, beaches, babes and booze. Everyone in north Africa knows about it but keeps quiet.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

vijaykarthik wrote:http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/c ... 587601.ece

Interesting article which talks about the Sykes-Picot agreement, how dumb it actually is [paints its very quickly] and also the fallacies and follies.
The U.S. wants countries like Iraq and Syria to remain unified failing which it fears complicated new realities will emerge. But those complications are already here

The present turmoil raging across the Middle East is unfolding on several levels, reflecting the multitude of forces and tensions involved. There is civil war in Syria, an insurrection in Iraq, domestic political unrest in Egypt and others countries and the relative peace that earlier existed between the majority Sunni and minority Shia communities have now been breached with break out of interreligious conflict across the region. One way to understand this turmoil is as an exercise in fundamentally redrawing the region’s map. But the mapmakers have vastly different objectives.

{The writer is thinking map making will quell the turmoil. He is thinking in Westphalian construct. However turmoil is due to long running Sunni-Shia fight. Its not akin to Catholic- Protestant fight. Its fundamentally different.}

The Middle East since World War I is the legacy of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and the efforts of the European powers to redraw it in their interests. New states were created by Britain and France to reward wartime allies, to protect key imperial routes and to assure access to oil. But these new states rarely aligned with the tribal, religious or other realities of the region.

Thus were born Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and others. Some have established coherent political spaces, such as Jordan. Others were held together by force. The rulers and systems which did this in places like Iraq, Libya and Syria have been ousted or are under threat, and centrifugal forces are pulling these countries apart.

{The problem is the West led by US is imposing the Talleyrand state stability solution on unstable entities. That is the root of the turmoil. If Eastern Europe, Ethiopia, Sudan and even East Timor could be separated what is sacrosanct about keeping colonial constructs together?}

Disintegration

It seems likely that several of these countries will not survive. Syria and Iraq are foremost, but places like Yemen and Libya are not far behind. They will probably become several smaller states in the coming years, despite western policy preferences for their survival in their present form. It will be a messy few decades.
{Norman Davis in his book Vanished States says states vanish when the idea that creates the states vanishes. So in essence the idea that created the WANA states has vanished with end of Cold War. This is the current reality.}

What will make it even messier is the fact that those vying to replace the existing order have differing aims. Some wish to achieve statehood in terms that we understand – the Westphalian model of sovereign political spaces. Even if some don’t like the idea of some of these peoples achieving statehood because it will complicate the regional picture, groups such as the Kurds do not seek to upset the present international system; they seek to join it. As the chaos of Syria descends even further, groups such as the Alawites may decide to seek their own sovereign spaces for protection.

Others are motivated by objectives incompatible with our conception of the international system. The Islamic State, Al Qaeda and others do not seek statehood as we understand it. Rather, they seek to establish a new order based on a misreading of a mythical idea to bind a community of believers together through common allegiance to religious precepts as to how society should function. It is the ideology of these groups which appears to have influenced those who have carried out the recent attacks in Canada and elsewhere.

Such groups will fail because they have nothing but brutality to offer; they cannot deliver the services that people expect. The likely trajectory for these groups is eventual disintegration into ever smaller groups of extremists, fighting each other as much as anyone else, with considerable attendant chaos and bloodshed. But, in the meantime, they represent a capable set of forces bound together by deeply-held goals. Those seeking to redraw the map along Westphalian lines are fighting each other as much as anyone else.

The making of the new Middle East map can thus be understood, at least in part, as the collapse of the post-Ottoman order, which has unleashed a violent confrontation between those who seek to draw the region’s map based on the idea of statehood, and those who seek to establish another kind of order in the region. The latter seem to have the upper hand in the fighting, for now.

Policy based on fear

The current U.S. policy that countries like Iraq, Syria and others should remain unified is based on a fear that complicated new realities will emerge if they disintegrate. But those complications are already here. Moreover, the West is manifestly unwilling to use the levels of force that would be required to achieve its goals; to put ‘boots on the ground’ over a long period in sufficient numbers to keep existing states together.

The U.S. also says, at least for now, that it is unwilling to countenance the return, or continuation in power, of the kinds of leaders who have shown that they could keep these spaces together, such as Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad. This may change as and if the Islamic State and others continue to spread. By initiating air strikes, the U.S.-led coalition has effectively thrown in with at least some of those seeking to remake the region along Westphalian lines (turning a blind eye to the fact that most of the new states that emerge will probably not be democratic bastions of human rights). It does this in order to help them stop those who see a very different future for the region; one of constant sectarian and religious bloodshed in the service of mythical goals which justify terror and brutality on a level which makes any civilised person shudder. Success is far from certain, and the strikes may just make things worse.

The current turmoil has the prospect to make for new alliances. Iran is as much concerned by the way things are unfolding as we are. Revolutionary rhetoric aside, Iran is a profoundly status-quo power when it comes to questions of sovereignty and statehood. If the nuclear impasse can be breached, the collapse of a regional order may make for some interesting bedfellows.

(Peter Jones is an associate professor in the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs, University of Ottawa, and an Annenberg Distinguished Visiting Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University.)

Prem
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Prem »

http://www.wam.ae/en/news/emirates-inte ... 78814.html?
List of terrorist organizations.
No JUD in the list.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

ISIS has beheaded and crucified a high ranking man on charges of embezzling their funds.

in other news, both Baiji town and the area around Baiji refinery is with iraqi govt troops now. the months long siege is over.

this allegedly isolated Tikrit pocket from Mosul.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by Austin »

Interview with Henry Kissinger: 'Do We Achieve World Order Through Chaos or Insight?'

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 073-2.html

SPIEGEL:
Shouldn't the most important objective be the protection of suffering civilians in Iraq and Syria.

Kissinger:
First of all, I don't agree that the Syrian crisis can be interpreted as a ruthless dictator against a helpless population and that the population will become democratic if you remove the dictator.

SPIEGEL: But the civilians are suffering, however you define it.

Kissinger: Yes, they are, and they deserve sympathy and humanitarian assistance. Let me just say what I think is happening. It is partly a multiethnic conflict. It is partly a rebellion against the old structure of the Middle East. And it is partly a sort of rebellion against the government. Now, if one is willing to fix all these problems and if one is willing to pay the sacrifices for fixing all these problems and if one thinks one can create something that will bring this about, then one can say, "We will apply the right to interfere," but that means military measures and willingness to face the consequences. Look at Libya. There's no question that it was morally justified to overthrow Muammar Gadhafi, but we were not willing to fill the vacuum afterwards. Therefore we have militias fighting against each other today. You get an ungoverned territory and an arms depot for Africa.

SPIEGEL: But we are seeing a similarly unbearable situation in Syria. The state is falling apart and terror organizations are ruling large parts of the country. Wasn't it perhaps wrong not to intervene in order to avoid chaos that now represents a threat to us as well?

Kissinger:
In my life, I have almost always been on the side of active foreign policy. But you need to know with whom you are cooperating. You need reliable partners -- and I don't see any in this conflict.
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by pgbhat »

abhischekcc
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by abhischekcc »

RajeshA wrote:
nachiket wrote:Let me get this straight. You want to give Indian citizenship to 3.6 million Arabs? :shock:
:D

Well in exchange for 309,000 sq. kms of the most geo-strategically important real-estate! Yes! One has to look at what one is getting in return!
You will get lots of table cloths and fan belts roaming in India, that's for sure. :P
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Post by RSoami »

We dont know anything.
All of America must be celebrating at the opportunity given to them to test their weapons (indefinitely). They have already negated the Manpad threat. Apaches are operating you dunno where all.
Contact TSJ for more info.
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