India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 17 Oct 2016 07:15

heh kashi you said it. modi will do whatever it takes to keep india's interests paramount. hardly an endorsement of anyone.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 17 Oct 2016 07:53

CRamS wrote:

Ambe GJi, hope in lurking mode you are reading this. ....
HRC were she to become president (which as per Nate Silver's model is almost a certainty: 88% chance ).

For a mathematician this is a sobering thought..the odds are only slightly better than surviving a game of Russian roulette. That is SCARY.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 17 Oct 2016 08:11

Sigh....I guess SDREs still fall into the same trap of hoping that some mai-baap POTUS will be favorable to them. I guess we need 2 more terms of NaMo before it gets ingrained into people's minds that we shouldn't care about WTH gets elected as POTUS. We should be assertive enough that they will have no choice but to have a respectful relationship with us regardless of whether it's Killary or the Loony Tunes. Otherwise they stand to lose more than us. US is 500% baniya when it comes to foreign policy and power/money talks, everything else gets flushed down pakistan. I think NaMo is a leader who has shown that we can play that game unlike the dhoti shivering that has defined Indian foreign policy since Chacha vaulted onto the stage.

As for choosing Killary vs Loony Tunes, its like choosing between Pol Pot and Yahya Khan. Each is a turd in their own way for India so best is to create 2 plans - one for each turd and use the one depending on whom becomes POTUS.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 17 Oct 2016 08:38

Kashi wrote:
Amber G. wrote:One has to look at *actual* record what she has done for US/India relationship, not just get influenced by silly demonizing. (Killing OSAMA was not bad for India - just saying )
Amber G. I am genuinely curious yet ignorant of this.

Could you please lay out the "*actual* record [of] what she has done for US/India relationship"?

That will certainly help a lot with the discussion going on in this thread.

.

Kashi - Best, of course is to check yourself as the actual record is out there for people to look easily. After all she has been in public life for a long time. One has to ignore demonization and nare-bazi ("she should be in jail") and look at the facts. But since you asked, let me put just a few random items - not for debate here but just some pointers if some one wants to look it up.

- As U.S. Senator, Hillary Clinton was (or co-chair) of the Senate India Caucus (One of the point person for people like us who love India and lobbyist).

- In fact political opponents have tried to use HRC's close India connections to attack her. In 2007, Obama had to apologize for a campaign memo that described Clinton as a senator from Punjab.

- Even recently Trump campaign attacked her ( publishing and circulating unsubstantiated allegations that HRC received money from India for her support for the India-U.S. nuclear agreement.

- Overall, HRC's foreign policy and trade policies —although dampened during the campaign in response to adverse popular sentiments—are in accordance with broad Indian preferences.. some thing anyone with knowledge will certainly agree. From H1B visas to more students to more trade her policy statements are MUCH better than anyone in past and MUCH MUCH better than DT (who many times openly was hostile to this .. though he will again pronounce some thing like "I am best for Hindus" and many will believe)

- Her group of advisers, staff (when she was Secretary of state) and admin had MANY people very knowledgeable and pro-India like
John Podesta (Campaign Manger), Wendy Sherman(Ex Under Secretary of State) , Jake Sullivan (her closest foreign policy aide) .. I can think of almost a dozen more - all individuals with a close working relationship with GOI.

- NaMo Met her recently (15 IIRC) and have mutual admiration. (To be true India/US relationship is strong enough now that NaMo can deal both with Reps or Dems ... DT is other story (see some notes below). NaMo has met some other Rep presidential candidates but AFAIK not DT. Of course their staff and GOI have contacts but DT's point people when NaMo was in DC . These people (Manafort etc) is so pro Pak and ISI. (He was prosecuted as lobbying for a terrorist outfit and paid by ISI)

-Without ANY doubt NO incoming U.S. president has had the level of interaction with India that she has had. PERIOD. (Some in the past very horrible - Nixon/Kissenger eg - None has better than HRC). Widely known for her trip in 1995 (which paved the way for historic visit to India in 2000) - Remember this was the time US/India relationship was at bottom still BC stayed 5 days in India. (To do = = he stayed 5 hours in Pak too ) .. In Obama's administration there was no = = .

- Indian-American community which NaMo gives VERY high importance has good relationship with HRC - (Not perfect but better than any ex SOS).

- Just for curiosity, it is hard to pin DT as he goes all over, but he has also said in town-halls and in close donor meetings - some random items which concerns me a lot:

"Pakistan ...We have a little bit of a good relationship. I think I’d try and keep it,” (Town Hall)
"...If you look at India and some of the others, maybe they’ll be helping us out.” (Some people in India called it Pro India, for me and many it was just using India to counter Pak for American Interest)
He avoided direct questions about economic relations and immigration as it relates to India.. as in “India is doing great. Nobody talks about it,” he once said , but he also said he wants to “bring back jobs from India.” and "ending the H-1B high-skilled visa"..

More than anything else, she is one of few senator who is more accessible (relatively speaking from other SOS's) to people in general to contact and she does learn from past mistakes.

Just a few points. Hope this helps.
PS - saw some replies.. not interested in replying to insults ... It may not "help a lot with the "discussion" going on in this thread" for some here, but I am keeping the post -- just in case some one is genuinely interested in my POV.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Oct 2016 09:07

I expect her to follow Obama's lead on most matters, however, be a lot more forceful and vocal (that is how she is by nature).

So, I expect her to force the issue to make India a member of the NSG. At the same time she will be vocal if she comes across any women related issues in India.

I expect her to be more tough with China. She just might sign up to isolate Pakistan, building up on her snakes in your backyard.

One more point. As Prez she is not going to lean the way she did when she was not the Prez. I just do not see the past being a good indicator of her future actions.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 17 Oct 2016 09:11

Thanks very much Amber G., that helps immensely.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Oct 2016 09:15

Has anyone being following WikiLeaks leaks on HRC?

From what I have read - so far - for the most part she has been sensible (on FP front that is).

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 17 Oct 2016 10:19

Today there was some dump of wikileaks and a rumour that Assange got assassinated. The second rumour was he was handed over to UK authorities which is as good as assassination. Both proved to be false.

No one seems to be knowing what is there in the latest dump.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Oct 2016 10:26

V.sad about Tyson Gay's daughter being killed in a shooting.When will such rampant shootings in the US end?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... y-shooting
Olympic sprinter Tyson Gay’s daughter Trinity killed in Kentucky shooting
Trinity Gay, 15, a rising track star, believed to have been caught in crossfire of gang shooting outside restaurant

Is this Donald' "Duck's" concession speech in advance? The polls indicate that Shrillary is moving far ahead of Trump in the polls,and the entire US establishment is behind her as she will ensure "business as usual".continuing US hostility to Russia and supporting the despotic Arab monarchies and regimes in the MEast. The arms,oil and pharma lobbies will sleep happy In fact,Trump is quite right.There is a massive conspiracy to defeat him by the establishment,including many from the GOP who fear a Waashington cleanup.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 63331.html

NewsWorldAmericas
Donald Trump claims US election is rigged because Hillary Clinton isn't in jail
'This election is being rigged by the media pushing false and unsubstantiated charges, and outright lies, in order to elect Crooked Hillary!'

Samuel Osborne @SamuelOsborne93 Saturday 15 October 2016349 comments

Republican U.S. presidential nominee Donald Trump speaks at a campaign rally in Charlotte, North Carolina, US, 14 October, 2016 Reuters
Donald Trump has said the US presidential race is being "rigged by the media" in order to elect Hillary Clinton.

He made the unprecedented assertation in response to accusations of unwanted kissing, groping and more from at least eight women.
Mr Trump maintained his innocence and denounced Ms Clinton and a supposed international media conspiracy aimed at denying him the White House.

TRump rooting for India and our desi diaspora could earn him some valuable votes as the majority of US voters of desi origin are "donkeys"!

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 17 Oct 2016 10:45

- Her group of advisers, staff (when she was Secretary of state) and admin had MANY people very knowledgeable and pro-India like
John Podesta (Campaign Manger), Wendy Sherman(Ex Under Secretary of State) , Jake Sullivan (her closest foreign policy aide) .. I can think of almost a dozen more - all individuals with a close working relationship with GOI.

This is where it is the scariest when the HRC administration enters in January. Having a working relationship knows where and when to eavesdrop on key GoI officials and/or have them clandestinely eliminated.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 17 Oct 2016 11:40

About DT's rally in NJ - this was described by someone as

This whole event was pathetic, embarrassing and a joke on all well-respecting Hindus!

I can understand why when I read the details for example from here:
At Hindu-American rally, Trump pitches India and U.S. as ‘best friends’

This was a Donald Trump rally like no other.

On the same day that the Republican presidential nominee told a mostly white crowd in Maine that he would unite the United States under “one god,” he appeared in front of a crowd of thousands of people of Indian extraction, and lit a Hindu ceremonial candle.

“I am a big fan of Hindu and a big fan of India,” he said, to loud cheers from a crowd comprised of many American citizens, but also many, who are at various stages along the path to citizenship, or just visiting from India.
The nominee stuck entirely to praise for India and its prime minister, Narendra Modi, as well as his standard policy positions, which he read from a teleprompter.

Hindu supporters of Trump at the event said they find common ground with the candidate on his perceived toughness against “radical Islamic terror,” as well as promises of low taxes. On the other hand, Trump has often said he would curtail immigration to the United States, which seemed at odds in a room filled with immigrants and those hoping to become Americans. The organizers printed hundreds of signs for attendees to hold, including many that said “Trump for faster green cards.”

More than half of the two-dozen-odd attendees interviewed for this article were not (yet) American citizens. And while the smattering of white people in the audience wore Trump campaign paraphernalia, much of the rest of the crowd donned sequined and starched Indian attire.

Many who were present said they were not aware that the event was meant to have any political overtones.<sa
<snip>

BTW recent polls give DT about 7% with-in Indian Americans

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 17 Oct 2016 11:52

I am surprised a bit about DT lead with Indian Americans. My understanding was Dem always have an excellent lead in Indians.

This election is going to be something which is not normal. While HC may win, we can not rule out DT also win now. No one in the US seems to believe MSM and the more they attack DT he is only going to consolidate his hold on his vote bank. Independents may get affected by DT rubbish actions, but too many attacks on him also make the reports suspect in the eyes on independent people.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 17 Oct 2016 11:56

NRao wrote:Has anyone being following WikiLeaks leaks on HRC?

From what I have read - so far - for the most part she has been sensible (on FP front that is).

Amber G. wrote:- Her group of advisers, staff (when she was Secretary of state) and admin had MANY people very knowledgeable and pro-India like
John Podesta (Campaign Manger), Wendy Sherman(Ex Under Secretary of State) , Jake Sullivan (her closest foreign policy aide) .. I can think of almost a dozen more - all individuals with a close working relationship with GOI.

WikiLeaks emails throw light on Modi’s Silicon Valley visit

PTI, Washington

The latest batch of emails released by WikiLeaks from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta gives an insight into the planning done by the Obama administration to ensure a successful visit by Prime Minister Narendra Modi to the Silicon Valley in 2015.

More than a month and half before Modi was to visit Silicon Valley in the last week of September, US assistant secretary of state for south and central Asia Nisha Desai Biswal wrote an email to John Podesta, who had by then joined the Clinton Campaign, seeking his advice and input on making the trip successful and also checking if the former US president Bill Clinton can co-host a clean energy event with the Modi at Stanford.

In an email to Podesta dated August 12, Biswal said there is a lot of interest in the Indian government to focus on two themes for the Silicon Valley visit.

First is the digital economy, she wrote and added that here the focus will be a visit to google and some announcements on Google’s massive investments in India, she said.

“The other focus is on clean energy. Here the Indians want to visit Tesla and hopefully announce a Tesla partnership/venture with India focusing on their battery storage system for solar,” Biswal said.

“The other major effort is around a clean energy roundtable with Stanford that commerce had been working on. It now it seems (commerce secretary Penny) Pritzker cannot make it to California and the Indians are looking for some other USG (US government) principal to participate with industry, academia and government,” she wrote.

“Before I engage the WH (state department) and state or DoE (department of energy), I wanted to see if you had thoughts on how we should approach this. The Indians have said that it would need to be a cabinet rank principal to convene this with the PM (Prime Minister),” Biswal said.

“We will of course see if secretary (of state John) Kerry or secretary (of energy earnest) Moniz can go to California that weekend but things are complicated by the (Chinese President) Xi (Jinping’s) visit and the UNGA (UN General Assembly) schedule. Are there other options you would suggest we pursue?” she asked.

“Another option would be to see if (California) governor (Jerry) Brown or perhaps President Clinton would be interested in co-hosting/convening. Also, would you want to participate in the roundtable? Let me know if you have thoughts on this or want to discuss,” Biswal wrote as per the email released by WikiLeaks on Monday.

The State Department has not authenticated the email.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 17 Oct 2016 12:00

Yagnasri wrote:I am surprised a bit about DT lead with Indian Americans. My understanding was Dem always have an excellent lead in Indians.

What lead? He's not leading by 7%, he's getting 7% of the total. Lowest approval among all Asian-Americans.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 17 Oct 2016 12:03

Wow. I thought he was leading by 7%.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 17 Oct 2016 12:04

I am surprised to see the Japanese and Korean numbers. I was expecting that they would be other way round.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 17 Oct 2016 12:09

The chart BTW is from Five Thirty Eight, dated Oct 10 and catalogs data from the National Asian American Survey.

Full article here -

Asian-American Voters Are Diverse But Unified Against Donald Trump

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Oct 2016 14:30

The amrekis seem to have quietened down considerably after the recent arms deal with the russians.

Did they think that we would put all our eggs in their basket onlee??

a fitting farewell to obama??

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 17 Oct 2016 17:10

what's happening with Assange? There are two claims floating around:

His Internet has been intentionally cut

and

Twitter rumors about his death MIGHT be false

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 17 Oct 2016 17:25

Initial is of death, then arrest by UK, the report that he is ok.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Oct 2016 17:50

Nein,they're trying to stifle his voice and the brits shamelessly talk about Chinese violation of human rights.

India should provide a sanctuary for Assange and offer him citizenship,issue him a dplpomatic passport.He deserves more than anyone else the Nobel peace Prize. If O'Bomber can get it for waging war,surely Assange deserves it,if only to erase the stain of dishonour of the Prize given to O'Bomber the warmonger.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 17 Oct 2016 18:13

If I am not wrong baba got no-bil before doing anything. I think they liked his peace-full of talks with peace-full of peeples and gave him no-bil. And the no-bil went with a checklist of tasks to do after getting it.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Oct 2016 19:08

chetak wrote:The amrekis seem to have quietened down considerably after the recent arms deal with the russians.

Did they think that we would put all our eggs in their basket onlee??

a fitting farewell to obama??

Was not aware that they were competing deals. We're they?

As far as "quietened", the ball is in the Indian court. Does India want to proceed with the techs India requested. The ones that are done are sealed. Other than the new single engine fighter and the C-17 I cannot recall anything else that us outstanding. ?????

On the Russian front the 400, another Akula are serious matters. Perhaps the FGFA too. Rest are balancing acts. But, such is life. No use splitting hair.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 17 Oct 2016 20:30

NRao wrote:As far as "quietened", the ball is in the Indian court. Does India want to proceed with the techs India requested. The ones that are done are sealed. Other than the new single engine fighter and the C-17 I cannot recall anything else that us outstanding. ?????

They're also trying to wrap up the Predator/Avenger deal before Obama leaves office.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Oct 2016 20:56

NRao wrote:
chetak wrote:The amrekis seem to have quietened down considerably after the recent arms deal with the russians.

Did they think that we would put all our eggs in their basket onlee??

a fitting farewell to obama??
Was not aware that they were competing deals. We're they?

As far as "quietened", the ball is in the Indian court. Does India want to proceed with the techs India requested. The ones that are done are sealed. Other than the new single engine fighter and the C-17 I cannot recall anything else that us outstanding. ?????

On the Russian front the 400, another Akula are serious matters. Perhaps the FGFA too. Rest are balancing acts. But, such is life. No use splitting hair.

The deals were not competing because the amrekis would never sell the brown skins something as lethal as the 400. The helos were a kick in their teeth and and the warships are also something off limits to the US.

A bitter sweet moment for the US because they need us strong but also subservient to their needs, which we ain't.

maybe they underestimated Modi and his khaki shorts onlee.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Oct 2016 20:56

What lead? He's not leading by 7%, he's getting 7% of the total. Lowest approval among all Asian-Americans.

Asian INDIANS are listed, but not Asian PAKISTANIS!

(oops! Forgot that Pakis are TFTA Arab/Central Asian Martial Races)

Poll is bogus. No one asked me, so numbers on Mongolians are totally off. Then again, I DID see a long-distance call from Amreeka the other night claiming to be from some Poll or other and refused to pick up the telephone. Assumed it was PLA.

Anyway, 93% of those "Asian INDIANS" must be Pakis who are solidly pro-Clinton since they own the SDOTUS. No self-respecting desi is going to tell anyone which way s(he) is going to vote, until s(he) sees the deals offered on Election Din. Anyone who fills a Poll Survey is doing so thinking that that IS the vote since they have no intention of going and standing in line.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Oct 2016 21:07

The brown skinned Modi, thankfully, has given up "Russia vs. US" etc. All he is looking for is a cool $1 trillion FDI by the year 2025. And we have other brown skinned Indians unaware of the bigger picture and still keep dishing out old analysis.

Talk of drag.

Wake up. Modi needs your help. Not your stale, mummified analysis.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 17 Oct 2016 21:13

Keeper.

warships are also something off limits to the US.

Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Cooperation

#JWGACTC

Short memory?

Need to move on to better and serious topics.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 18 Oct 2016 00:19

chetak wrote:The deals were not competing because the amrekis would never sell the brown skins something as lethal as the 400.

US offers India the Aegis Combat System

Naval system and arguably more lethal than the S-400.

The helos were a kick in their teeth and and the warships are also something off limits to the US.

Kick in the teeth of the French/Germans more like, since it was the Eurocopter Fennec that won the competition, before the Ka-226 made a backdoor entry.

A bitter sweet moment for the US because they need us strong but also subservient to their needs, which we ain't.

maybe they underestimated Modi and his khaki shorts onlee.

Seeing as it was under Modi's watch that the Quadilateral Dialogue was resurrected, LEMOA signed and COMCASA & BECA/XX progressed, I'd say they're pretty happy with Modi at the moment, I'd say the thought of a UPA return would seriously worry them.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 18 Oct 2016 00:22

Rudradev wrote:FWIW...

http://india-herald.com/indian-american ... 186-64.htm

The Clintons' Quarter-Century Record on India.
1991: Arkansas Governor and presidential candidate Bill Clinton delivers foreign policy speech and describes plans to interfere in “separatist efforts” in India and Yugoslavia .

1992: Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton promises during his presidential campaign that he will use Super 301, a law designed to impose trade sanctions impacting India

1992: US Trade Representative Carla Hills who turns out to be a Hillary Clinton supporter imposes trade sanctions on India under Super 301

1992: Joe Biden Amendment blocks sale of Russian Cryogenic engines to India

1993: Bill Clinton blocks sale of Cray Supercomputers to India

1993: Bill Clinton administration to sell Cray Supercomputer to China

1993: Bill Clinton supports terrorists in Punjab leading to protests in India outside US embassy (protests happened in early 1994 but support was in late 1993)

1993: Bill Clinton writes to Pakistan lobbyist and offers to work together on Kashmir

1993-94: Bill Clinton does not bother to appoint ambassador to India for more than a year in order to insult India

1994: Clinton’s close friend and Assistant Secretary of State Robin Raphel says Kashmir should not be part of India

1994: Bill Clinton supports Pakistan on Kashmir and accuses India of human rights violations

1994: Bill Clinton administration official sets fire to Indian skirt on TV and declares them a fire hazard hurting Indian textile sector and destroying livelihoods of millions of families who depend on the sector

1994: Bill Clinton targets Indian pharmaceutical industry for destruction by foisting TRIPS provisions as part of WTO

1994: Bill Clinton administration offers F-16 planes to Pakistan and Robin Raphel announces offer from Delhi

1994: Bill Clinton administration pursues carrot and stick policy (carrots for Pakistan, sticks for India): announces F-16s for Pakistan and threatens India with trade sanctions under Super 301

1995: Bill Clinton Appointee declares Indian scarves flammable and orders recall hurting Indian textile industry

1995: Bill Clinton administration foists bad Enron deal on India and forces Indian government to provide guarantees

1996: Bill Clinton sets up ‘Advisory Committee on Religious Freedom Abroad’ with aim of forcing Hindus in India to convert to Christianity and this Committee eventually recommends the creation of the hate group USCIRF

1997: Bill Clinton’s friend and Assistant Secretary of State Robin Raphel announces Clinton administration’s policy of opposing Russian collaboration with India for electricity generation and weapons of defense

1997: Bill Clinton’s Vice President Al Gore refers to Punjab as Khalistan

1998: Bill Clinton imposes sanctions on India

1998: Bill Clinton preaches to India on nuclear tests and simultaneously announces MFN status for China

1998: Bill Clinton’s Secretary of State Madeleine Albright spews vitriol on India and calls India’s actions “felony against the future.”

1999: Bill Clinton tries to impose stringent labor standards on India that would destroy Indian businesses and eliminate competition for Clinton’s cronies

2000: Bill Clinton administration interferes in India and organizes hearing on “human rights violations” based on fabrications about violations of religious freedom

2000: Bill Clinton visits Pakistan on India trip and thus equates India with Pakistan and confers legitimacy on Musharaff who took power in a coup

2001: Hillary Clinton does not oppose Senate vote to remove sanctions on Pakistan

2001: USCIRF, a hate group and creation of Bill Clinton administration, spews vitriol and stereotypes Hindus as “serious violators of religious freedom” and demands that US government ensure that [forced] conversions be permitted in India

2002: USCIRF, a hate group and a creation of Bill Clinton administration, attacks India and Hindus and uses terms like “communal violence” while blaming Hindus; it simultaneously praises Musharaff for curbing “violence in the name of religion” in Pakistan. Note the careful usage of words to describe religious violence in Pakistan.

2003: Democrat Tom Daschle appoints anti-Hindu zealot Preeta Bansal to USCIRF, the hate group created by the Clinton administration, and is cheered by anti-Hindu Christian activists including the violent terrorist Jayachand Pallekonda

2003: Hillary Clinton supporter and India baiter Madeleine Albright, who was Bill Clinton’s Secretary of State, calls for a plebiscite in Kashmir

2004: Hillary Clinton exhibits bigotry and claims Mahatma Gandhi ran a gas station in St. Louis

2005: Hillary Clinton causes outrage by calling for India to give up nuclear program and reconcile itself to non-proliferation treaty

2005: Bill Clinton calls for giving aid money to terror group LTTE

2006: Hillary Clinton who is part of the Senate India Caucus stabs India in the back and votes YEA on ‘killer amendment’ to bill in US Senate that deals with Indo-US Nuclear deal; the amendment is intended to kill the deal and set back Indo-US relations by 30 years

2007: Hillary Clinton booed when she defends Musharaff and attacks Senator Obama for saying he would attack Pakistan and take out Osama bin Laden

2007: Hillary Clinton’s fundraiser is organizer of LTTE Heroes Day which celebrates terrorists

2008: Hillary Clinton once again attacks Senator Obama for promising to act against Pakistan for supporting terrorists

2009: Hillary Clinton says she is proud to release report of anti-Hindu hate group USCIRF which was formed on the advice of a Committee consisting of Christians, Muslims and others but not Hindus (Click here to read about Hindus alone being excluded by Bill Clinton when the Office of Religious Freedom was created)

2009: Hillary Clinton backs talks with Taliban

2009-2012: Hillary Clinton carries on a get-Modi campaign against Narendra Modi

2012: Hillary Clinton declares ‘religious freedom,’ a euphemism for Christian proselytism (primarily in the Indian subcontinent), a foreign policy imperative

2013: Clinton Global Initiative partners with anti-Hindu evangelical Christian group World Vision

2014: Bill Clinton friend and former Assistant Secretary of State Robin Raphel investigated by FBI for spying for Pakistan

2015: Huma Abedin, a key member of Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign is the daughter of a Pakistani mother and her father worked for an Islamist in Saudi Arabia with ties to Al Qaeda

2015: Hillary Clinton’s running mate, Christian missionary and India-baiter Tim Kaine admits Pakistan has connections to terror group LeT but praises Pakistan for fighting terrorists and advises India to have a better relationship with Pakistan

2016: Clinton Foundation donor linked to Pakistani arrested for corruption and harboring terrorists

2016: Hillary Clinton picks Hindu-baiter and India hater Tim Kaine as VP running mate.
Oh but Donald Trump is worse onlee, because TFTA omniscient Western mainstream media says so, and who are we SDRE minorities to question them?

Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.

Just reminding this beautiful post for Bharat Premi people.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Oct 2016 00:23

NRao wrote:Keeper.

warships are also something off limits to the US.
Joint Working Group on Aircraft Carrier Technology Cooperation

#JWGACTC

Short memory?

Need to move on to better and serious topics.

this is just another runaround like the jet engine story.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 18 Oct 2016 00:26

Raja Bose wrote:Sigh....I guess SDREs still fall into the same trap of hoping that some mai-baap POTUS will be favorable to them. I guess we need 2 more terms of NaMo before it gets ingrained into people's minds that we shouldn't care about WTH gets elected as POTUS. We should be assertive enough that they will have no choice but to have a respectful relationship with us regardless of whether it's Killary or the Loony Tunes. Otherwise they stand to lose more than us. US is 500% baniya when it comes to foreign policy and power/money talks, everything else gets flushed down pakistan. I think NaMo is a leader who has shown that we can play that game unlike the dhoti shivering that has defined Indian foreign policy since Chacha vaulted onto the stage.

As for choosing Killary vs Loony Tunes, its like choosing between Pol Pot and Yahya Khan. Each is a turd in their own way for India so best is to create 2 plans - one for each turd and use the one depending on whom becomes POTUS.

+1 It's one thing to post a news story about what either candidate said, because it came from them. But the constant political arguments between posters themselves about which US candidate is better for us, is quite annoying. Unfortunately no one listened to past moderation attempts. If this gets any worse, it's better off to lock the thread and let it be until post Nov 8 . Anyone who wants to fight over DT vs HRC can go find another place to do it in .

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Oct 2016 00:33

chetak wrote: this is just another runaround like the jet engine story.

Eh!

India asked for it and on both counts, per reports, both sides have come to an agreement.

Have you been following Trump very closely?

JK.

On a more serious note, we need to wait. The carrier effort is complex and as much as I would like EMAKS, etc, I do not see IN ready for such things.

Engines is a difficult story. Buy the F-16 and India gets engine related techs *India asked for* (not to be confused with "engine technologies"). Even otherwise India will get an engine for the AMCA, but not some techs India requested. Not much co-dev in that case.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Oct 2016 00:37

Kick in the teeth of the French/Germans more like, since it was the Eurocopter Fennec that won the competition, before the Ka-226 made a backdoor entry.

The Ka-226 has a Turbomeca IIRC.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Oct 2016 00:39

NRao wrote:The brown skinned Modi, thankfully, has given up "Russia vs. US" etc. All he is looking for is a cool $1 trillion FDI by the year 2025. And we have other brown skinned Indians unaware of the bigger picture and still keep dishing out old analysis.

Talk of drag.

Wake up. Modi needs your help. Not your stale, mummified analysis.

aren't you the sharp one!!

we did not really need some of the hardware that we got from the amrekis. It was more for their benefit than ours just like they are/were pushing for the local manufacture of F15/16.

we do not have the paki mentality of playing off one against the other. we go where we get the system with the best fit and the best deal. Some of the US supplied hardware was to keep them appeased about the grand huge nuke reactor orders that the bania amrekis expected as quid pro quo. we still buy reactors + machinery from the russians in large quantities, in fact, much more than we will ever buy from the amrekis

well, if we are still unable to protect ourselves like in the centuries past, we deserve what we get. trillion shillion is meaningless unless we have the wherewithal to back it up with military muscle.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Oct 2016 00:40

NRao wrote:
Kick in the teeth of the French/Germans more like, since it was the Eurocopter Fennec that won the competition, before the Ka-226 made a backdoor entry.
The Ka-226 has a Turbomeca IIRC.

Turbomeca?? Is it anything we make or can make??

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 18 Oct 2016 01:21

chetak wrote:
NRao wrote: And we have other brown skinned Indians unaware of the bigger picture and still keep dishing out old analysis.
Not your stale, mummified analysis.
It was more for their benefit than ours just like they are/were pushing for the local manufacture of F15/16.

When Rafale was chosen NRao ji was crying oceans of tears, saying "...Rafale will be too outdated by 2036, no need to manufacture this soon to be obsolete platform, just lease a few till 2036 and then move to more advanced one..."

Now he is happy that super advanced F-16 is coming which will be most advanced jet in 2036, and no need to be worried about manufacturing such an advanced fighter which will be much ahead of Rafale in even in 2036, no talks of lets just LEASE A FEW F-16s TILL 2036...

I mean lemoa was being marketed with "...look dtti, you brown people getting engine tech and are hestitating in signing small lemoa?"

Just as soon as lemoa is signed the news is leaked out the US has introduced a new condition "buy 100 of our phat panting teens.... which can't take off from leh
Or
forget about dtti engine shingen"

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 Oct 2016 01:27

chetak wrote:
NRao wrote:
Was not aware that they were competing deals. We're they?

As far as "quietened", the ball is in the Indian court. Does India want to proceed with the techs India requested. The ones that are done are sealed. Other than the new single engine fighter and the C-17 I cannot recall anything else that us outstanding. ?????

On the Russian front the 400, another Akula are serious matters. Perhaps the FGFA too. Rest are balancing acts. But, such is life. No use splitting hair.
The deals were not competing because the amrekis would never sell the brown skins something as lethal as the 400. The helos were a kick in their teeth and and the warships are also something off limits to the US.

A bitter sweet moment for the US because they need us strong but also subservient to their needs, which we ain't.

maybe they underestimated Modi and his khaki shorts onlee.

you are right chetak. before the s-400 we asked for and didn't get the response we wanted on BMD solutions. you'd remember the hoop-la over the patriot and variants. but what we wanted was top drawer and didnt get it.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Oct 2016 01:58

NRao wrote:
chetak wrote: this is just another runaround like the jet engine story.
Eh!

India asked for it and on both counts, per reports, both sides have come to an agreement.

Have you been following Trump very closely?

JK.

On a more serious note, we need to wait. The carrier effort is complex and as much as I would like EMAKS, etc, I do not see IN ready for such things.

Engines is a difficult story. Buy the F-16 and India gets engine related techs *India asked for* (not to be confused with "engine technologies"). Even otherwise India will get an engine for the AMCA, but not some techs India requested. Not much co-dev in that case.

not to start a flame war, but the military is fed up with amreki hardware because of the sanctions that can hit you with the silliest of reasons. amrekis are unpredictable and hence dangerous for us.

their big ticket items will always come with stiff conditions and stringent end user compliance requirements.

we are being offered a lot of fancy stuff from the amrekis but they are just dancing around. Modi has/will be signing highly sanitized versions of LEMOA, COMCASA and BECA and what not. It's just so much paper.

In case of any regional conflicts involving amerki and islamic forces, all bets are off regarding basing or even entertaining amreki forces on Indian soil bar emergencies for urgent battle damage repairs etc.

the amrekis have for the longest time been seriously looking for Indian boots on their grounds and no Indian govt can or has taken that particular bait.

The pakis have really turned paki and the amrekis seem to have lost the plot in afghanistan, pakistan, south china seas and the middle east. They need us more than we need them.

India is the only one in the region with a real professional armed force and one capable of working with them in terms of technology, completely apolitical and has never shown any jehadi tendencies. Even if they don't like us, we seem to like them plenty.

we have a increasingly restive islamic population, a slowly but surely awakening Hindu population, becoming increasing assertive, so any extra regional entanglements is not something Modi or any sane PM is going to encourage and that is the big amreki picture.

If we cannot safely arm ourselves and increase the capability to defend and hit we will be swallowed whole. A Trillion dollar economy is useless because unless we back it up with a tough forward posture and a solid military muscle, we will not reach the trillion target. This muscle will help keep the peace for us and this muscle cannot be completely or even vitally amreki.

In a way it is providential for us that Modi came along at the right time.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 18 Oct 2016 02:04

Hainji, for a horrible moment I thought I had stumbled into the MiLForm aka Free Fire/ Minefield Zone.