Understanding US thread-III

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 30 Jan 2017 19:34

UlanBatori wrote:ldevji: If u were one of the JCS, ur undies would be in a knot, hain? Basically told that you are as welcome and appreciated as the "3rd Little Cheney at a wedding". A guy whom you denied promotion on the grounds that he was wacko, is now going to decide when America can and should go to war.
The JCS are professional soldiers, and have reached the zenith of their profession. Nowhere to go except out. So they are likely to give sensible advice. Now Bannon and Flynn are going to be the advice-givers, and both are nothings except for the position where they serve at the pleasure of a certifiable POTUS. I'd say that the Doomsday clock should be moving to 11:59:35.

What I am really worried about is The Big Event, and if something happens there, the Reaction.

True all this, but DT has surrounded himself with ex soldiers as his innermost advisers e.g. Michael Flynn is no lightweight, he retired as Director (the numero ono honcho) of the Defence Intelligence Agency and if rumor says anything, it is that the US armed forces prefer to rely on DIA intel for their war fighting plans where possible because the Culinary Institute is regarded as politicized. Also SecDef Matthis retired as Commander of Centcom so he has directly executed orders given by then SecDef Carter. So these guys are not lightweights or idiots.

Also if you remember in the campaign there were those 50 military/intel senior people who wrote a letter saying that DT is unstable and cannot be trusted with the big bum button. So DT IMO has reason to be distrustful of certain elements of the intel/military community. Just yesterday he tweeted that "McCain and LIndsay Graham should concentrate on trying to defeat ISIS rather than starting WW3". Goes to show that there are entrenched interest in the US military/intel community, part of the Deep State, trying to keep the Cold War alive with the Russians and make it a shooting war if they can. I think DT wants a clean break with all that including holdovers from the Obama era and rely on Generals/retired Generals he trusts as opposed to those who have been foisted on him.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 30 Jan 2017 19:46

was watching PBS yesterday on the fights between Obama and Ryan and the backstory of the past few years (aka the backdrop to the rise of the Orange One) - quite interesting since we don't get some of this detail outside the US, but more shockingly lots of snippets from right wing talk radio... people ranting and raving against Obama, people crying that taking guns away from citizens is pure evil and that Obama is double evil to wave the bloodied clothes of sandy hook children to take away the rights of the freedom loving good people... mein gott in himmell!!

I think it will be interesting to see how Ryan evolves. wasn't aware that Obama had utaro'ed his chaddi earlier and now Trump has made him utaro it again... he strikes me as a vindictive man who is biding his time. I caught a glimpse of his face in the backdrop to the Obama mike drop speech at congress... wow... his brain was ticking away... scary look...

the republican party will have to do a LOT of rebuilding going forward I guess

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2017 19:52

ldevji, True, I had forgotten about that Jarnails'/Inteldonkeys letter. The Broom is in evidence now. I have to say that to clean up the SyriaUSISIS mess, he has to fire a lot of Jarnails as well as "intel" types. The comment about McCain is dead on. Lindsey Graham for some reason has REALLY bissed him off. The other Primary losers are keeping their mouths shut.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 30 Jan 2017 19:55

Gus wrote:Of course....I have personally not done anything illegal in immigration law and do not approve of abuse of laws

I also do not think massa as some sole property of white man. If folks want to go there and try their luck, all power to them.

But India is sole property of the brown man? If our job market, especially the most high-paying and skilled jobs, were being gobbled up by foreigners, would we be so sanguine about it? I don't see any of us celebrating the influx of Bangladeshis into our country, and they're not even taking the good jobs. Just trying to put some perspective on this issue; I have mixed feelings about it, too. My nitpick is the world just assumes the US has no right to control its own immigration policy, often being extremely hypocritical about it.

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 30 Jan 2017 20:01

UlanBatori wrote:ldevji, True, I had forgotten about that Jarnails'/Inteldonkeys letter. The Broom is in evidence now. I have to say that to clean up the SyriaUSISIS mess, he has to fire a lot of Jarnails as well as "intel" types. The comment about McCain is dead on. Lindsey Graham for some reason has REALLY bissed him off. The other Primary losers are keeping their mouths shut.

IMO the reason Bannon has been elevated there is to run every potential national security move through the prism of his base. The only thing keeping DT there is his raucous, largely red neck base and if he loses their support he is toast. Forget about the Democrats, the institutional Republican Party and those 13-15 losing candidates will turn on him like a pack of hyenas. So Bannon is his sounding board for that.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jan 2017 20:13

Mccain ki to izzat ki neelami ....

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
Where was all the outrage from Democrats and the opposition party (the media) when our jobs were fleeing our country?

Donald J. Trump
50m50 minutes ago
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
I have made my decision on who I will nominate for The United States Supreme Court. It will be announced live on Tuesday at 8:00 P.M. (W.H.)

Donald J. Trump
1h1 hour ago
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
If the ban were announced with a one week notice, the "bad" would rush into our country during that week. A lot of bad "dudes" out there!

Donald J. Trump
2h2 hours ago
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
There is nothing nice about searching for terrorists before they can enter our country. This was a big part of my campaign. Study the world!

Donald J. Trump
2h2 hours ago
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
Only 109 people out of 325,000 were detained and held for questioning. Big problems at airports were caused by Delta computer outage,.....

On mccain and graham

Donald J. Trump
17h17 hours ago
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
...Senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 30 Jan 2017 20:47

Y. Kanan wrote:especially the most high-paying and skilled jobs, were being gobbled up by foreigners, would we be so sanguine about it?

if americans get into the dork/nerd bashing at schools, shun STEM fields at college (and choose unemployable fields of liberal arts, humanities blah blah) and don't put in the hours in their 20s (and choose to party) etc - and then american companies import labor from elsewhere (just happened to be india) - native born americans can't crib and whine about it much.

nobody is stopping them from competing in the labor market. it is a flat world...the 70s and 80s of 'default success' and 'needing a plan to fail' are gone. h1b labor import is not new. almost 20+ years now? why are they still needing to import labor?

My nitpick is the world just assumes the US has no right to control its own immigration policy

Is it the US as a whole or the whites? that is the question. any country has the right to chose its future. i am merely holding US to what it says it is and what it tells other countries they should be.

if they are looking to block mexicans, muslims, indians etc on some race thing - they should change everything they say about themselves starting with the constitution to - we the white people...

But India is sole property of the brown man?

tricky question..personally i could care less about color , but i do want india to be cultural hindu worldview majority.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2017 21:04

Y. Kanan wrote: But India is sole property of the brown man? If our job market, especially the most high-paying and skilled jobs, were being gobbled up by foreigners, would we be so sanguine about it? I don't see any of us celebrating the influx of Bangladeshis into our country, and they're not even taking the good jobs. Just trying to put some perspective on this issue; I have mixed feelings about it, too. My nitpick is the world just assumes the US has no right to control its own immigration policy, often being extremely hypocritical about it.

HOW DARE U, tell the (uncomfortable) truth!!

Wonder if the term "Sons of The Soil" (TM Shiv Sena) is known in Californiastan.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 30 Jan 2017 21:20

ah yes...the great indian habit of closing the door after themselves. how dare the rest also enter after them. goddamn immigrants.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 30 Jan 2017 21:59

twitter

Clinton was still trying to delete emails at the #Inauguration

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2017 22:03

More vacancies to open up at State Dept. & embassies
Not that these are gems of honesty and common bloody sense:

Last year, more than 50 diplomats sent a dissent cable opposing US inaction in Syria.

IOW, not supporting the ISIS and killing Syrians more.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 30 Jan 2017 22:27

chetak wrote:twitter

Clinton was still trying to delete emails at the #Inauguration

there was a youtube video showing clinton looking with melania with such affection, Hillary looking made face and then the video ended

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 30 Jan 2017 22:41

http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/01/ca ... ral-taxes/

So since you do not like the Chosen one, you do not want to pay taxes also. Have they gone mad? Why are libs so much of these illegal immigrants?

DT will only say "Ab aye ga Maza".

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 30 Jan 2017 22:41

after reading all the hate for America, then seeing the weeping over a *temporary* immigration ban on just 7 countries from around the world .........I find it completely.............absolutely........ a wonderful buzz that just lifts my my spirits.

thank you...thank you.

words can hurt but actions are for real.

weeping and crying and demonstrating can be the most sincerest form of flattery.

Americans are banned from visiting Iran?

ouch, ouch, stop it. you're killing me!.......

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2017 22:57

TSJi, there goes your vacation in Somalia!

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 30 Jan 2017 22:58

Singha wrote:Mccain ki to izzat ki neelami ....

On mccain and graham

Donald J. Trump
17h17 hours ago
Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump
...Senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III.

I am now wondering if the deepstate just got owned. Anyway, this aspect of Trump is what gives me (some) hope.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 30 Jan 2017 23:02

How come there is no temporary ban on Mexico travel I wonder. Half the ^^ (One-party)^^ voting population of California would suffer.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jan 2017 23:13

Congress leader Ahmed Patel, Rajya Sabha MP Parimal Nathwani also urge Centre to intervene.

Top Congress leader Ahmed Patel and independent Rajya Sabha member Parimal Nathwani sought intervention of External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj for the release of Vadodara-based businessman Paraman Radhakrishnan, who has been held in US for “terrorising.”

“[Ms.] Swaraj should look into the matter of Radhakrishnan and take steps for his early release,” Mr. Patel, political secretary of Congress president Sonia Gandhi, told reporters in Vadodara.

Rajya Sabha member Parimal Nathwani also sought the Union Minister's intervention for safe release of the 53-year-Radhakrishnan. "I have raised the issue of his arrest in US and requested the authorities to take it up for his release," Mr. Nathwani told The Hindu, which reported on Monday regarding the arrest for alleged bomb threat.

When contacted, Renu Radhakrishnan, wife of the arrested businessman, told The Hindu she was "not in a position to comment."

Meanwhile, External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj tweeted on Monday that she had asked for a report from the Indian Ambassador in U.S.

On Sunday, Ms. Renu had tweeted to Prime Minister Narendra Modi and External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj urging them to help get her husban back from the US authorities.

"Modiji my husband has been arrested by Grand Forks. He is just a simple honest resident of Vadodara," her tweet read, and further said he was passionate about energy conservation and even won a national award for the same.

However, even on Monday, the Gujarat government appeared unaware of the issue. "We are yet to get any details from anyone," Pradipsinh Jadeja, Minister of State for Home and Non Resident Gujarati affairs told The Hindu.

Mr. Radhakrishnan was on a week-long business trip to the U.S., and was preparing to return home when he checked in for a flight from Grand Forks to Minneapolis, Minnesota, early on Saturday.

Mr. Radhakrishnan then allegedly entered into an altercation with airlines staff, and was accused of threatening that there was a “bomb in his bag”, local newspapers reported.

“Police say the leading theory behind what may have caused the suspect to make these threats is that he became disgruntled with airport staff, but they say regardless of the reason, any threat of this nature at an airport is taken seriously,” Grand Forks police spokesperson Jay Middleton said.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Jan 2017 23:30

ldev wrote: True all this, but DT has surrounded himself with ex soldiers as his innermost advisers e.g. Michael Flynn is no lightweight, he retired as Director (the numero ono honcho) of the Defence Intelligence..

Flynn was already going crazy while in service (look up "Flynn facts").

His dubious assertions are so common that when he ran the Defense Intelligence Agency, subordinates came up with a name for the phenomenon: They called them “Flynn facts.”

And regarding Mattis, I don't think there is an issue about his competence. But his temperament is another matter. This following from a Trump supporter, a retired US Army Colonel:

Mattis lost his job as CENTCOM commander for crowding the Iranians by sending US warships inshore where they were evidently expected to provoke a fight. This was contrary to Obama's policy and Mattis was warned about this behavior before he was replaced. Mattis should be cautioned against exceeding his authorities before being made SECDEF.

Mattis might be nicknamed "Mad Dog" for good reasons.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 30 Jan 2017 23:34

Here is the Atlantic on Flynn:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... nn/510059/

In diagnostic testing, there’s a basic distinction between sensitivity, or the ability to identify positive results, and specificity, the ability to exclude negative ones. A test with high specificity may avoid generating false positives, but at the price of missing many diagnoses. One with high sensitivity may catch those tricky diagnoses, but also generate false positives along the way. Some people seem to sift through information with high sensitivity, but low specificity—spotting connections that others can’t, and perhaps some that aren’t even there.
...
...
As Dana Priest has reported, when JSOC staged raids, Flynn had personnel gather scraps of intelligence—cell-phone numbers, addresses, pocket trash. They relayed what they found back to Flynn and his analysts, who took these disparate data points and drew connections among them, spotting patterns and creating actionable intelligence. JSOC began rolling up networks it hadn’t been able to crack.
But there was another ingredient, equally crucial to Flynn’s success. General Stanley McChrystal, then Flynn’s boss, harnessed his remarkable capacity for drawing connections while working to contain it, Priest reported:

He “boxed him in,” someone who had worked with both men told me last week, by encouraging Flynn to keep his outbursts in check and surrounding him with subordinates who would challenge the unsubstantiated theories he tended to indulge.
That reporting suggests that McChrystal saw the extraordinary value in Flynn’s sensitivity, recognizing that Flynn might spot things others would miss, so long as he was embedded in a system that could supplement it with specificity, knocking down suppositions and leaving only the solid claims standing. But, as The New York Times wrote, once Flynn found himself in command of the Defense Intelligence Agency, his sensitivity was no longer balanced by specificity—there was no one to steer him away from false positives...

But the question isn’t whether Flynn is the right choice, but whether Trump will scope and define his job in the right way—enabling him to succeed. At JSOC, he reported to a commander who apparently demanded that he discipline his outbursts and empowered his subordinates to rigorously test his ideas. He performed brilliantly. At the DIA, by contrast, he ran his own show, and reportedly demanded that his subordinates validate his ideas. He was promptly forced out.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jan 2017 00:09

panduranghari wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:"A businessman, by virtue of being successful, understand economics (or understands economics better than most)" is a ridiculous claim.
Prove it. Dont run away. A businessman who understands how markets behave is successful. Those who do not understand this, fail. If it was not so, Yellen would be running a multi million $ company. Kahneman and Tversky have proven this too. So you will need to come up with a hypothesis and prove it, that would counter their hypothesis. The battle is uphill. I am sure you can do it though.

A simple proof that Trump doesn't understand economics is that he thought that by imposing a 20% tariff on goods imported from Mexico, he would make Mexico pay for the border wall.

But the tariff is paid for by the importer, not the exporter. American consumers of Mexican goods would be paying the tariff.

Trump doesn't understand even elementary economics.
Q.E.D.

(You might argue that Trump is not a successful businessman. After all, if Trump had invested the money his father gave him to begin with in a real-estate fund instead of his own ventures, he would be worth more today. But I think doubting Trump's competence is the last thing you want to do, even to preserve your idea. You are therefore stuck with the disproved proposition that successful businessmen understand economics.}

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 31 Jan 2017 00:13

Flynn getting side-lined?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/don ... im-waiting

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 31 Jan 2017 01:04

Tech companies are all screaming about the new immigration bans. But in reality, they are afraid that the gravy train of cheap H1B labor they had will be targeted. Goodbye multi million dollar bonuses while laying off people in the US to hire people overseas paying peanuts. This was unfair to begin with to US citizens who pay taxes and can never compete with people from overseas who can have a good life with just 20% of the wage.

There is no H1B ban yet, but that may be coming and everyone knows it. The future will be interesting. When I visited India in Dec, I had many people come up to me nervously asking me what Trumpji will do. A few even pompously claimed that Indian economy was not dependent on US work anyway.

Y. Kanan · Post by **Y. Kanan** » 31 Jan 2017 01:17

KJo wrote:Tech companies are all screaming about the new immigration bans. But in reality, they are afraid that the gravy train of cheap H1B labor they had will be targeted. Goodbye multi million dollar bonuses while laying off people in the US to hire people overseas paying peanuts. This was unfair to begin with to US citizens who pay taxes and can never compete with people from overseas who can have a good life with just 20% of the wage.

There is no H1B ban yet, but that may be coming and everyone knows it. The future will be interesting. When I visited India in Dec, I had many people come up to me nervously asking me what Trumpji will do. A few even pompously claimed that Indian economy was not dependent on US work anyway.

To be honest, it's a travesty and national shame that we have allowed ourselves to become so dependent. The remittances we get from the H1-B slave trade do not begin to outweigh the long-term damage to our economy and national potential that this brain drain inflicts upon us, IMO.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Jan 2017 01:38

KJo wrote:Tech companies are all screaming about the new immigration bans. But in reality, they are afraid that the gravy train of cheap H1B labor they had will be targeted. Goodbye multi million dollar bonuses while laying off people in the US to hire people overseas paying peanuts. This was unfair to begin with to US citizens who pay taxes and can never compete with people from overseas who can have a good life with just 20% of the wage.

There is no H1B ban yet, but that may be coming and everyone knows it. The future will be interesting. When I visited India in Dec, I had many people come up to me nervously asking me what Trumpji will do. A few even pompously claimed that Indian economy was not dependent on US work anyway.

It was unfair too when far more manufacturing jobs were being sent overseas than IT jobs. But you have a problem now when its India's turn to benefit from low wages?

If US has a problem with outsourcing jobs, then it should not try to sell their $hit in India. No Boeings, military hardware, American software in India - not now, not never.

Many American companies would simply die without outsourcing. Many wound't even be created in the first place.
All this low paying H1Bs is also a load of poppy cock. Foreign entry level engineers are paid (or cost) as much if not more than American entry level engineers. An entry level Indian employee from the universities that were raided and students sent back makes 70k with two layers of staffing companies. He must be costing more than 100K to the company. That they still get employment is a sign that US simply does not have people to fill its tech companies.

If US had the people to sustain its companies, it would employ them. If they are laid off and do not find employment gain, it means they are not competent. Sure there are exceptional situations during the dot com bust and housing bubble where smart people could not find jobs for long periods, but that's US mismanagement of their economy. Foreign workers or out sourcing wouldn't have made any difference during those times.

US has a declining population without immigration. In a few years, it won't be any different than Germany which now offers free university for foreign students. Yes, free university for foreign students. And they want to make it easy for them to come study in Germany by teaching German to Indians in Indian schools.

India has repeatedly said free movement of labor is important for it and invoked WTO in this regard. I am not sure if any international trade agreements cover labour movements, but India must insist on them during future agreements.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Jan 2017 01:50

Y. Kanan wrote:
KJo wrote:Tech companies are all screaming about the new immigration bans. But in reality, they are afraid that the gravy train of cheap H1B labor they had will be targeted. Goodbye multi million dollar bonuses while laying off people in the US to hire people overseas paying peanuts. This was unfair to begin with to US citizens who pay taxes and can never compete with people from overseas who can have a good life with just 20% of the wage.

There is no H1B ban yet, but that may be coming and everyone knows it. The future will be interesting. When I visited India in Dec, I had many people come up to me nervously asking me what Trumpji will do. A few even pompously claimed that Indian economy was not dependent on US work anyway.
To be honest, it's a travesty and national shame that we have allowed ourselves to become so dependent. The remittances we get from the H1-B slave trade do not begin to outweigh the long-term damage to our economy and national potential that this brain drain inflicts upon us, IMO.

Agree. But India must invest in quality higher education and research. F(k primary education. Private schools can take care of it and do a far better job than the government can ever hope to. Fund IITs, IIMs, IIScs. Pay our professors more, pay our researchers more. Any new product created in India will generate far more jobs in India than a few paltry H1s remitting money to India. Most of it is unproductive in real estate anyway.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 31 Jan 2017 02:11

lets make up our mind on whether h1b is a 'abuse by paying low to import labor' or 'snatching of high-paying jobs by furriners' - it cannot be both, no?

*taking outliers or atypical cases where employers abuse by not paying what's on payroll.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jan 2017 02:17

Are the "Beautiful People of Pakistan" banned?!?!

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 31 Jan 2017 02:27

Companies abuse the system here. In a previous company, a well known one, I saw a job posting and emailed the HR lady for that asking to be considered for it. She replied back saying that position didn't really exist and it was done "for INS purposes". Basically fooling the US Govt and US citizens.
They have a H1B person already in it and this job posting was to show people that they posted it and did not get anyone "qualified enough". So they could keep the H1B fellow for a lower price and keep him on a leash dangling a green card.

I hope Trump puts a stop to all this nonsense. Not sure how.

Looks like hanumadu has bought into the "we don't need you, you need us!" line. I guess that's why everyone in IT I met in Dec was nervous as hell.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Jan 2017 03:14

Oh, please. The exact same thing must have been done for your H1. Did you make sure that there was an advertisement for your job and no american applied. Do you make sure that you are not replacing or never replaced an American (unless you are an American now and is that why you are all self righteous now)?

Do you think before you buy cheap Chinese goods if it is at the cost of an American job?

But your original point was not about abuse or American laws. Your point was there should be no outsourcing at the cost of American jobs. Guess what, liberalization and WTO was not thrust on the world by India or Third World Countries. It was the Great West idea. Now that some of them can't find cushy jobs to fund their two annual vacations and ivy league degree in sociology or post modern literature or 4 bed room house, they wan't protectionism.

This is the deal, you don't open your labour market for us, you have no access to our market. You think you have a cushy job now. What happens when the rest of the world does not need your goods. Do you think you will have a job 10 yrs from now, 20 yrs from now? How about your kids? Or are you counting on India to come back to when the milk and honey dried up? I just hope your job is not exported because your company cannot find enough people in the US to fill your team.

Do you think Apple with its sales restricted to the US will hire more Americans or less Americans?
How about Boeing? or Microsoft or Oracle or Intel?

Even the tech companies that use foreign workers or outsource not to mention non tech companies like banks who depend on foreign workers have only 30% of their employees in tech, a small fraction of which are immigrants. 70% of employment of such companies is non tech and goes to the locals. Add to it the indirect employment they provide.

A few even pompously claimed that Indian economy was not dependent on US work anyway.

Its not. Indian non IT exports to US are probably less than it imports from US. Indian domestic IT Is now half of exports. And US is not the only outsourcing market for Indian IT.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Jan 2017 03:30

KJo wrote: Looks like hanumadu has bought into the "we don't need you, you need us!" line. I guess that's why everyone in IT I met in Dec was nervous as hell.

Why don't you tell that to the Americans who sign agreement after agreement for joint development of military equipment with India. I mean they must be fools that their successive governments want to employ Indians at the cost of the Americans to develop military hardware for them.

Sure they will be nervous because their job is on the line. Indians depending on outsourcing are not any more nervous than American companies that are dependent on Indians are. Sure we will lose jobs, there will be turmoil but things will settle down eventually. And then what?

Do you think cisco will compete with Huawei or ZTE employing only Americans?
Who do you think will cope better, an Indian engineer losing his outsourcing job or an American worker losing his job because Boeing had a lay off?

How much of your company's revenue is dependent on foreign markets, directly or indirectly?

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 31 Jan 2017 03:42

hanumadu wrote:Oh, please. The exact same thing must have been done for your H1. Did you make sure that there was an advertisement for your job and no american applied. Do you make sure that you are not replacing or never replaced an American (unless you are an American now and is that why you are all self righteous now)?

Do you think before you buy cheap Chinese goods if it is at the cost of an American job?

But your original point was not about abuse or American laws. Your point was there should be no outsourcing at the cost of American jobs. Guess what, liberalization and WTO was not thrust on the world by India or Third World Countries. It was the Great West idea. Now that some of them can't find cushy jobs to fund their two annual vacations and ivy league degree in sociology or post modern literature or 4 bed room house, they wan't protectionism.

This is the deal, you don't open your labour market for us, you have no access to our market. You think you have a cushy job now. What happens when the rest of the world does not need your goods. Do you think you will have a job 10 yrs from now, 20 yrs from now? How about your kids? Or are you counting on India to come back to when the milk and honey dried up? I just hope your job is not exported because your company cannot find enough people in the US to fill your team.

Do you think Apple with its sales restricted to the US will hire more Americans or less Americans?
How about Boeing? or Microsoft or Oracle or Intel?

Even the tech companies that use foreign workers or outsource not to mention non tech companies like banks who depend on foreign workers have only 30% of their employees in tech, a small fraction of which are immigrants. 70% of employment of such companies is non tech and goes to the locals. Add to it the indirect employment they provide.

A few even pompously claimed that Indian economy was not dependent on US work anyway.
Its not. Indian non IT exports to US are probably less than it imports from US. Indian domestic IT Is now half of exports. And US is not the only outsourcing market for Indian IT.

Sorry dude, Try again. I was never on H1B. Someone's REALLY butthurt today.

But the ball is set in motion. All the misuse will stop and should stop.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Jan 2017 03:45

KJo wrote: Sorry dude, Try again. I was never on H1B.

Doesn't matter. You are still an immigrant. Some body in your family must have been on a work visa and sponsored your GC. Or you were on L1.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Jan 2017 03:48

KJo wrote:
Sorry dude, Try again. I was never on H1B. Someone's REALLY butthurt today.

But the ball is set in motion. All the misuse will stop and should stop.

My butt hurt is only because people like you are more MUTU and want to deny the same benefits to India and Indians that you enjoyed.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 31 Jan 2017 03:49

hanumadu wrote:
KJo wrote: Sorry dude, Try again. I was never on H1B.
Doesn't matter. You are still an immigrant. Some body in your family must have been on a work visa and sponsored your GC. Or you were on L1.

There you are looking for loopholes to "prove" your points.

So are you in India or in the US? I can sense your fear if you are in India just like the folks I met.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 31 Jan 2017 03:50

hanumadu wrote:
KJo wrote:
Sorry dude, Try again. I was never on H1B. Someone's REALLY butthurt today.

But the ball is set in motion. All the misuse will stop and should stop.
My butt hurt is only because people like you are more MUTU and want to deny the same benefits to India and Indians that you enjoyed.

IT People in India have enjoyed for a long time. In many cases undeserving. Your calling me MUTU just reveals the fear in you. Just like some folks on the DeMo thread who actually had hoarded black money.

Now this is a chance to make things fair again for everybody. Let's see if the President screws it up or makes a success of it.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 31 Jan 2017 03:54

hanumandu, they are selling their stuff not because we are buying them, I have seen the misuse up and close ..Indians being shortchanged (even IIMs/DSEs knowingly) shortchanged by fortune 100 companies, even when reasonably comparable level talent was available...why? coz the american will have 8 hour weekday and no weekends and SDRE will have nothing better to do even on weekends or might be motivated(read illusioned) to work for better career...this is similar to concept of competitive advantage in interest rate swaps ..the situation till now was that only..only thing was no one expected the great Drumph

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 31 Jan 2017 03:58

KJo wrote: IT People in India have enjoyed for a long time.

Exactly, the climb up the value chain has not happened to a lot of extent, the start up boom to me seems like a scam where people were simply keen on getting a funding, getting an interview in some arbit magazine and just get out with funding exit..with no long term plan (true for most)

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 31 Jan 2017 04:02

KJo wrote:
hanumadu wrote:
Doesn't matter. You are still an immigrant. Some body in your family must have been on a work visa and sponsored your GC. Or you were on L1.
There you are looking for loopholes to "prove" your points.

So are you in India or in the US? I can sense your fear if you are in India.

No wonder you look down upon others who want the same opportunities as you because oh you were so privileged you didn't have to apply for an H1.
Some people do think beyond themselves.

The offshore component of outsourcing work increased from 25% in the early 1990s to 80% now. So if I was dependent on off shore work, I am safer than if I was in the US.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 31 Jan 2017 04:08

tom alex ‏@rejialex7 Jan 27
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Chicago: Muslims chanting "free Palestine, death to Israel, death to USA"
https://twitter.com/rejialex7/status/824985558355173377