Understanding the US - Again

bala · Post by **bala** » 23 Jan 2025 09:11

Jay wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:34 there is no law where government can mandate a private companies to enforce DEI..

Yes, but then there is the Nazi force of Dems, Media chutiyas, cancel culture and more that arm-twisted all companies to comply with DEI regulation, otherwise you are on some banned list and/or boycott list. Please undertand the tremendous peer pressure to comply. And then there is that other moronic measure called ESG, wherein the rules are made up somewhere else for companies to dumbly comply, otherwise ...

bala · Post by **bala** » 23 Jan 2025 09:36

I want to add some additional context on the birthright US citizenship that DJT wants to end.

H1-Bs are not immigration visas — they are non-immigrant visas not meant to be 'dual intent' visas.

the 14th Amendment clearly states that birthright citizenship applies only to children born of parents who are within the jurisdiction of the United States — this automatically excludes children who are born in the US to illegal aliens and temporary visa holders etc.

The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently ruled that the federal government has broad and exclusive power to regulate immigration.

pravula · Post by **pravula** » 23 Jan 2025 09:43

AFAIK, H1-Bs are considered dual intent, F1 is not...

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 23 Jan 2025 09:50

Ok Folks here is the definitive scientific breakdown of 'the' salute

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Jan 2025 10:57

Jay sir, according to you, anyone who hails a cab is automatically a nazi. Great. What is this gaslighting stuff? You think everyone who posts here cares so much about anonymous handles to gaslight ?! Not worth my time. You can disagree if you wish, I dont care.

Hriday · Post by **Hriday** » 23 Jan 2025 16:23

https://x.com/ByRakeshSimha/status/1882 ... YdVzg&s=19

Donald Trump has signed an order for the deportation of non-citizens, including foreign students, for supporting groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. If you know of students on visas who support these terrorist organisations, report them ASAP to the ICE tip line.

Click the Twitter link to see the screenshot of govt directive and the phone number.

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 23 Jan 2025 18:39

Jay wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:44
Vayutuvan wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:39

He is not experienced same as your heroine Ms. KD Harris. Being a gov. of Ohio, a pretty important state for GOP, will give him exposure. He is also quite young unlike your heroine elitist BBB (Black Brahmin Baptist) Harris.

If to go by the insider rumors ....
Many of the mega MAGA people treated VR with disdain, and behind his back they referred to him as the "Indian guy", as if he is
one of those H-1B holders, even though he is a born citizen of lawful immigrants. On the other hand, Musk wields tremendous clout,
even though he is an immigrant from South Africa, and was on H-1B for a while. ....
The contrasts the skin color can make couldn't be any more stark.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 23 Jan 2025 20:09

It was a Roman salute. Adopted by the National Socialist Party. Just like our Swastika they took over.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Jan 2025 21:22

Get real guys, are all these hitler/nazi salutes too,

or merely "cleverly edited from video" images

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 23 Jan 2025 21:58

https://youtube.com/shorts/Tgazc5qqVLA

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 23 Jan 2025 22:42

There was mucho discussion and untold media mentions about melania's outfit which she wore to the inauguration, but few mentioned Usha Chilukiri-Vance's outfit

Vice-President JD Vance’s wife Usha Chilukiri-Vance, daughter of immigrants from Andhra Pradesh, hit the ball out of the park with her pink Oscar de la Renta ensemble.

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Jan 2025 23:06

bala wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 09:36 I want to add some additional context on the birthright US citizenship that DJT wants to end.

H1-Bs are not immigration visas — they are non-immigrant visas not meant to be 'dual intent' visas.

the 14th Amendment clearly states that birthright citizenship applies only to children born of parents who are within the jurisdiction of the United States — this automatically excludes children who are born in the US to illegal aliens and temporary visa holders etc.

The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently ruled that the federal government has broad and exclusive power to regulate immigration.

Sorry to nitpick. But the correct language of the 14 amendment section 1 is:

Fourteenth Amendment
Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof[/b], are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

AFAIK any person who is in the USA is subject its jurisdiction. We are NOT talking about immigration but of interpretation of Constitutional Amendment. I do not believe SC has ruled on this particular amendment.
Foreign diplomats are NOT subject to the Jurisdiction and so their children born in the USA are NOT automatically citizens of the USA.

bala · Post by **bala** » 23 Jan 2025 23:30

If Nikki Randawa aka Nikki Haley had played her cards properly she would have been in the Admin of DJT in a prominent role. Alas she grew bigger than her image and opposed DJT instead of being truthful to her party affiliation of Republican.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 23 Jan 2025 23:43

bala wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 09:36 I want to add some additional context on the birthright US citizenship that DJT wants to end.

H1-Bs are not immigration visas — they are non-immigrant visas not meant to be 'dual intent' visas.

the 14th Amendment clearly states that birthright citizenship applies only to children born of parents who are within the jurisdiction of the United States — this automatically excludes children who are born in the US to illegal aliens and temporary visa holders etc.

That's not what 14th amendment says. Here is the actual text from the US constitution...

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

That means, a child born to a parent who is in US under F1 visa, H1B visa, or with out a visa is a US citizen, because they were born in US.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 23 Jan 2025 23:45

Vayutuvan wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:51
Strange order. How very nazi/fascist. Agree or I will shoot (AKA cancel).

Spoken like a true trump supporter...lol

bala · Post by **bala** » 23 Jan 2025 23:45

subject to the jurisdiction is a very important clause and SC, The Supreme Court addressed the meaning of this key provision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark.

Wong Kim Ark was born in 1873 in the city of San Francisco, in the State of California and United States of America, and was and is a laborer. This case highlighted a disagreement between the Justices over the precise meaning of one key phrase in the Citizenship Clause: “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” In a 6-to-2 decision, the Court ruled in favor of Wong Kim Ark. The Supreme Court addressed the meaning of this key provision in United States v. Wong Kim Ark. Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco to parents who were both Chinese citizens. At age 21, he took a trip to China to visit his parents. When he returned to the United States, he was denied entry on the ground that he was not a U.S. citizen.

But The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently ruled that the federal government has broad and exclusive power to regulate immigration.

So will see what EO of DJT is subjected to in the SC which is tilted currently towards the Republicans.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » 23 Jan 2025 23:46

Vayutuvan wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:49
Jay wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:43 I have zero access to twitter so I have to see the pics you are talking.
Hmm. Ignorance is bliss.

Educate me sir ji by posting the video....

saip · Post by **saip** » 23 Jan 2025 23:48

Kati wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 18:39
Jay wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:44

If to go by the insider rumors ....
Many of the mega MAGA people treated VR with disdain, and behind his back they referred to him as the "Indian guy", as if he is
one of those H-1B holders, even though he is a born citizen of lawful immigrants. On the other hand, Musk wields tremendous clout,
even though he is an immigrant from South Africa, and was on H-1B for a while. ....
The contrasts the skin color can make couldn't be any more stark.

The color of the skin is very important. That is reason to get rid of DEI. Their reasoning: Hard working Americans should get the jobs and should not be based on color of the skin until it is brown.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Jan 2025 00:21

Yagnasri wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 20:09 It was a Roman salute. Adopted by the National Socialist Party. Just like our Swastika they took over.

That makes sense. And since Americans frequently think about the Roman empire, the Nazi salute slips out whether by intent or not

Hollywood plays a major role here too in that case, what with movies like Gladiator II this year.

How Often Do We Think About the Roman Empire?

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Jan 2025 00:28

Thanks for posting this. Reading this brings another legal point to mind.

If a person is a citizen only if they are subject to the jurisdiction of the USA, then any citizen who moves abroad to say Russia or Europe should automatically lose citizenship as well. This is important for tax law, since the USA extracts taxes if someone desires to surrender US citizenship.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Jan 2025 00:47

Once you are a citizen you DO NOT lose the citizenship unless you renounce it. Another thing is if you obtain the citizenship by fraudulent means (like answering no to question whether you have even been member of Nazi party?) then USA can cancel the citizenship and deport you. About the lying on the federal form like when you illegally worked but answered NO to that question is also a deportable offence. But I was told working illegally before you have work visa does not automatically disqualify you from becoming a citizen.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Jan 2025 00:59

Plain reading of the constitution suggests otherwise. The hurdles created by the State Department and IRS to prevent surrendering citizenship can be challenged.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 24 Jan 2025 01:12

Here we go: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigr ... rcna188851

saip · Post by **saip** » 24 Jan 2025 01:20

There are NO hurdles to renounce your citizenship AFAIK. Problem for us is that under Indian Citizenship Act we automatically lost our Indian citizenship when we acquired the US citizenship. So if we renounce our US Citizenship we will become stateless and where will we go then? Trisanku Swargam? Some years ago Indian government insisted that Indians who acquired US citizenship must renounce their Indian citizenship. We had to fill out some form and mail it the Indian Embassy with exorbitant fee like $2000 (which is not even uniform between the embassy and the consulates). After lots of protests the fee was reduced to $20 if I recall. For me the question was if the Indian Citizenship Act already cancelled my citizenship because I became an USA Citizen, what am renouncing? Anyway I did and still keep that document just in case.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 24 Jan 2025 01:23

The hurdles specifically are a filing fee of thousands of $s, and a possible IRS demand due to presumption that one is renouncing as part of a tax avoidance tactic.

You can apply for Indian citizenship 5 years after getting OCI and a year living in India.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 24 Jan 2025 04:51

Excellent summary and a reality check by Maj Gen Narayanan….

Trump still seems his bombastic self and possibly has compromised with DS by meeting Billy Boy, ignoring RJK and the AI fund with that Sam Boy thus dissing the Elon.

He might still have turncoats advising him and Republicans need to be careful they don’t waste the mandate else they might be in the doghouse again for a decade.

Needs to calm down and be a diplomat and handle Russia and Gaza responsibly specially when allies like Germany might see right wing nationalists themselves in power weakening the alliance while othe countries look up to BRICS for support …

his support for H1Bs with Elon can end up alienating his MAGA crowd who would want a bite of the manufacturing and AI pie he wants to cook..
if you think about it VR is the only real citizen who was pushing for upskilling local labourers as well whereas Elon and Trump are billionaires who care more about making $$ using low and skilled immigrants than secure American future…

https://www.youtube.com/live/kF27ZRMvDo ... cfNbDtTx0g

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Jan 2025 06:02

Jay wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 23:45
Vayutuvan wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 08:51
Strange order. How very nazi/fascist. Agree or I will shoot (AKA cancel).
Spoken like a true trump supporter...lol

I don't agree that Musk did a nazi salute nor did HiC, BOH, ...
So cancel me now.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Jan 2025 06:03

Jay wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 23:45 Spoken like a true trump supporter...lol

Spoken like a true Nazi/fascist ... lolwaaaa...r

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Jan 2025 06:20

saip wrote: ↑24 Jan 2025 01:20 There are NO hurdles to renounce your citizenship AFAIK. Problem for us is that under Indian Citizenship Act we automatically lost our Indian citizenship when we acquired the US citizenship. So if we renounce our US Citizenship we will become stateless and where will we go then? Trisanku Swargam?

No, not really. Indian law AFAIK is as follows. (IANAL so take it for whatever it is worth. I heard it from Sam Pitroda in a public lecture he gave).

Easiest case is if someone was born in India after 1947 and has a birth certificate. Then best is to go to India on a visa. OCI will do swimmingly. Go to the US Consulate and renounce US citizenship. Indian law states that you have to live in India continuously for one after after renouncing the US citizenship. Then you can regain your Indian citizenship.

Sam Pitroda had to go through this process except waiting for 12 months in India which was waived by Rajiv Gandhi. Sam P. was head of CDOT and was asked to represent India in some ASEAN country conference. Since he was a US citizen, they asked him to renounce the US citizenship first and them PM waived the 12 month requirement. He already fulfilled the requirement while he was heading CDOT.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Jan 2025 06:29

S_Madhukar wrote: ↑24 Jan 2025 04:51 Excellent summary and a reality check by Maj Gen Narayanan….
...

Also add to this the Panama Canal drama. It seems that Panama Canal is not really under the control of China or anything like that. The real reason is that Panama raised the transit fee for ships of certain size. A lot of ships are from shipping lines in Texas and originate from there. The owners of those shipping lines/ships/customers (who ultimately pay the cost of increased fee) are big time Trump donors. Trump is blustering so that there will be differentiated fees - one for US ships and higher for Chinese ships. DJT wants to give breaks tio his donors but at the same time increase the costs for the Chinese.

This is from one of th3e recent (WSJ) Editorial Report on Fox News. It is 1 PM CST on FNN every saturday and worth watching. That is the only one worth watching on FNN.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Jan 2025 06:39

https://deadline.com/2024/12/cable-news ... 236243730/

Executive summary

Code: Select all

1. Fox News topped primetime in 2024, averaging 2.38 million viewers, up 30% from a year earlier. MSNBC averaged 1.22 million, up 1%, and CNN posted 685,000, up 18%. ...

2. In total per day, Fox News averaged 1.46 million viewers, up 21%, followed by MSNBC with 791,000, up 2%, and CNN with 481,000, which was flat.

This elections are somewhat of a watershed moment for the US. We have to wait and see if this going to be good or bad for Indo-US relations. As long as both India and US gain more than they lose and China/Europe loses, I won't bother about human rights/racism/Birthright citizenship like soft issues.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Jan 2025 06:44

As far as US citizenship goes, many people were going there to deliver babies so that those babies could become citizens. My close relatives did that. A few months' visit on a work visa and taking your wife with you. After that, never go back after bringing the kid to Bharat. I wonder what US SC will say about such things. Plus, illegals and their kids were born in the US. The very entry into the US of the mother and father of the kid is illegal. Can their kids get with the US citizen?

All this is a legal issue. But as far as the MAGA crowd is concerned, they are dead against that, and I think the US SC may agree with them.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Jan 2025 06:49

Vayutuvan wrote: ↑24 Jan 2025 06:39 https://deadline.com/2024/12/cable-news ... 236243730/

Executive summary

Code: Select all

 As long as both India and US gain more than they lose and China/Europe loses, I won't bother about human rights/racism/Birthright citizenship like soft issues.
[/quote]

Why shall Bharat care of those issues? People go to US to make money. Period. As long as they remain our citizens, they are our responsibility to the extent of their safety ets. They know that they will face racist treatment there. Yet they went to make money. Good luck to them. But once they become a US citizen, Bharat has no role. 

Why should we support them in becoming US citizens or something like that???

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Jan 2025 07:03

@Yagnasri gaaru, I am saying the same thing. But as an Amru citizen. I don't have a problem taking racism and then fight back. When India is strong, PIOs would be strong as well. That said, India might need PIOs sometimes like when India floated USD 3 billion bonds post nuclear test sanctions.

India can use PIOs for sanction busting. If India wants a transactional relationship then that is what PIOs would also ask for. No?

bala · Post by **bala** » 24 Jan 2025 11:06

According to this clip: Trump orders declassification of JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations records!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIYRq_oPxxQ

John F. Kennedy, the 35th president of the United States, was assassinated while riding in a presidential motorcade through Dealey Plaza in Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963.

bala · Post by **bala** » 24 Jan 2025 11:45

Trump has a news conference while signing Executive Orders, answering Qs from reporters. This is highly revealing to get the rationale behind many issues. Very fun filled to say the least and worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW-nFFaW1J0

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 25 Jan 2025 04:07

bala wrote: ↑23 Jan 2025 23:45
But The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently ruled that the federal government has broad and exclusive power to regulate immigration.

Immigration (including naturalization) and Birthright Citizenship are two different things. One is a process, the other is a status. Govt can control/regulate the former, but the latter is a binary (either you are a citizen by birth or you are not) and the constitution determines the answer. The govt role is only to verify/record that the person was born in USA.

bala · Post by **bala** » 25 Jan 2025 11:36

KL Dubey wrote: ↑25 Jan 2025 04:07 the constitution determines the answer.

That wording in the constitution is up for legal debate. The current US Govt thinks differently compared to the justices who gave their verdict roughly 100 yrs ago in Wong Kim Ark case. The US SC is again going to examine this case and provide their verdict. Whichever way it rules then that become the new standard.

The govt role is only to verify/record that the person was born in USA.

No. The Govt role is to govern properly based on what they perceive is required for the nation. Things change and the govt has a role. what was true yesterday may not be true tomorrow. We are not dealing with absolute laws like in physics, we are dealing with governing a nation and the govt of the day can decide which way they want to proceed. Happens all over the world.

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 25 Jan 2025 11:45

bala wrote: ↑25 Jan 2025 11:36
KL Dubey wrote: ↑25 Jan 2025 04:07 the constitution determines the answer.
That wording in the constitution is up for legal debate. The current US Govt thinks differently compared to the justices who gave their verdict roughly 100 yrs ago in Wong Kim Ark case. The US SC is again going to examine this case and provide their verdict. Whichever way it rules then that become the new standard.

The govt role is only to verify/record that the person was born in USA.
No. The Govt role is to govern properly based on what they perceive is required for the nation. Things change and the govt has a role. what was true yesterday may not be true tomorrow. We are not dealing with absolute laws like in physics, we are dealing with governing a nation and the govt of the day can decide which way they want to proceed. Happens all over the world.

Bakwaas band karo.

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 25 Jan 2025 13:06

Dubey Saar, your know all attitude is getting tiresome. I'll ignore your posts from now on.

Bala Saar's point is right.