Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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Muppalla
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

I don't know if this was posted. However, this worth reading especially an article coming from a person who wrote biography of NaMo

How and why Modi model spells trouble for many
Gujarat CM breaks the Nehruvian template of a national leader, and nobody is sure if such a persona can deliver in 2014 - Nilanjan Mukhopadhyay

What is it about Narendra Modi that any development related to him is either preceded or followed by a huge controversy? That this is true was acknowledged even by him in an interview with me. He had said, “Whatever Narendra Modi does – either then or even now, those who want to create a controversy generate one.” Then he had blamed the media and his political detractors as he was speaking about the situation after the 2002 Gujarat riots.

But this time the hullabaloo in the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) was over Modi’s appointment as chief of the party’s campaign committee. The decision, announced on a sodden Sunday in Goa, was preceded by frenzied anticipation of the elevation and was given the name of the Biblical sounding ‘anointment’ by an imaginative scribe only to have others zeroing in on the word. This was followed by veteran LK Advani’s public bawl that had party leaders huddling together, TV channels getting another opportunity to go ballistic and for the Congress to show again the virtual absence of steel
But, more than Modi’s authoritarian style, it is his political orientation that has unsettled peers in the party. Beyond doubt, Modi is the first mainstream political leader who has completely broken from the stereotype of a political leader cast in the Nehruvian mould who carries along every section and community, especially underprivileged and religious minorities. Very consistently, in the years since 2002, Modi has taken the BJP into political territories where even Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Advani did not tread. Even in his heydays as the original polariser, Advani sugar-coated venom in a language that aimed to convert the intelligentsia first and the masses later. In contrast, Modi’s approach was that the masses needed to be wooed first and the intelligentsia would follow in search of relevance.
Modi, however, has broken from this mould and does not believe in the politics of goodwill gestures. Modi opted to be a full-fledged practising-Hindutva leader within moments of the Godhra carnage. True, Modi since the 2007 victory consciously projected the ‘development man’ persona. But it was to add variety – the ‘demolition man image’ was never negated.
The BJP was virtually co-opted into the system of governance and is no longer the party with a difference that its leaders claimed. The BJP has become another Congress albeit of a different hue and leaders have been complacent that they will eventually get their turn. Modi with his majoritarian approach threatens this comfort level. He wishes to take greater risks because Modi thinks the yields will be greater. The pressure from below was the reason for his appointment. But, no one – except Modi – is sure if this pressure will correspond with the mood of the electorate. This is the main reason for turbulence within BJP.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

mahadevbhu wrote:Modi is bhasmasure who will burn the RSS after he becomes PM

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?286142
If that is the case. Then from the INCs POV. Modi ought to be the PM. For the amount of poison thrown on the RSS.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Dr JJ hasn't said anything. But she can't but notice the treatment of NK. Despite all the vitriol Nitish is a good man and a good CM. To kick even him out is not a good situation.

I think it is more and more likely a 3rd front will form and siphon votes away from both sides. This is not good for India.

I wish there was a thread to discuss third front dynamics.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Dr JJ hasn't said anything. But she can't but notice the treatment of NK. Despite all the vitriol Nitish is a good man and a good CM. To kick even him out is not a good situation.

I think it is more and more likely a 3rd front will form and siphon votes away from both sides. This is not good for India.

I wish there was a thread to discuss third front dynamics.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Dr JJ hasn't said anything. But she can't but notice the treatment of NK. Despite all the vitriol Nitish is a good man and a good CM. To kick even him out is not a good situation.
Theo - we'd like to maintain higher standards of logic and information veracity on this thread than some of the other threads that you're used to.

Can I suggest you follow the news for some time before attempting to comment on it ?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by VikramS »

Arjun wrote: Theo - we'd like to maintain higher standards of logic and information veracity on this thread than some of the other threads that you're used to.

Can I suggest you follow the news for some time before attempting to comment on it ?
Theo sar is very well aware of what he is doing.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

Theo: How was NK kicked out? He went away by himself.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Swamy,

You don't really believe that.
IMO this was a resign or else situation.
The work environment steadily deteriorated for him.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Theo_Fidel wrote:The work environment steadily deteriorated for him.
Must rank amongst the most moronic statements in the 220+ pages of this thread !

If you continue in this vein - you will be slung out by the ear for trolling, my friend.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SwamyG »

Theo...if NK had never voiced anything about 'secularism' or NAMO the alliance would have still dithered along. All he had to do was keeping working for the betterment of his state. He could have opened his viewers after BJP had announced its PM candidate. He is a puppet or just trying to make some deal. Do you expect me to believe he is really a secular or that he cares one way or the other. In politics secularism is the last refuge of scoundrels. A true secular keeps religion separate from the government. He was twisting BJP's arm. It broke. :mrgreen:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by abhishek_sharma »

It is somewhat ironic because Nitish Kumar continued as Railways Minister in the NDA admin till 2004. Since NaMo govt was not dismissed by ABV, he could have resigned in 2002. He did not. Now, when the perks of a cabinet kursi don't distract him, he has time to understand the true meaning of "secularism". How sad.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Chandragupta »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Dr JJ hasn't said anything. But she can't but notice the treatment of NK. Despite all the vitriol Nitish is a good man and a good CM. To kick even him out is not a good situation.

I think it is more and more likely a 3rd front will form and siphon votes away from both sides. This is not good for India.

I wish there was a thread to discuss third front dynamics.
Boss what are you smoking? Must be very potent stuff.
Good man? The bugger is a casteist & vote bank politician - nothing more than another slimy divisive scheming 'leader'. And nobody kicked him out, he pissed on the state's mandate to NDA only to create a Muslim vote bank & personal gains. What a cheapo!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by R_Kumar »

Here is Rajnath Singh reaction on split. This guy also has very good oratory skill.
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/w ... ngh/279503
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

At this stage, and after all the eons of alliance forming and fronting, if anyone thinks about third front nothing but chasing aam away to river front. What is the phucking use of a front, when there is no face-value to these plethora of minuscule parties, that serves the nation no purpose other than harm the national integrity and unity.

If a well ordained party, with decent performance has a face to deliver, and have demonstrated the capability in at least one state, then we should take that as the cue to incumbency factors, and spread a voice to help them succeed to demonstrate at the national level. perhaps, we are so much into corrupted forms, now home with it.. it is hard to think otherwise.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by sum »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Swamy,

You don't really believe that.
IMO this was a resign or else situation.
The work environment steadily deteriorated for him.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

I wonder why NiKu split in the first place..Since he is a NaMo baiter and hell bent to stop him, it would have been better for him (and Kongis) to remain in NDA and pull NaMo's leg all the time till 2014 and do maximum damage to BJP. It would have also helped LKA and his gang to constantly snipe at NaMo and distract him and the party. I feel they may have made a big blunder by severing ties with BJP. Now NaMo is free and it is difficult to check his ascendancy.

I am happy to see the sikular votes getting split, for a change. This should happen in other states like UP, MH, KA, WB, Orissa, Assam, MP as well.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_22539 »

^+1 I agree. He would have done more damage and handed more sticks to Advani by staying in the party. Truly, these days we can see "vinash kale vipareeta buddhi" in live action. I guess the time for change is truly here.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by vina »

Congress must be kicked out for one term, I agree. Manmohan Singh has run the most venal , corrupt and incompetent government ever in the history of the country (leaving out the Janata Ding dongs). In addition the audacity of trying to coverup by dictating /altering investigation reports of the CBI that were court mandated is breathtaking. Congress needs to sit in the opposition for sometime in the Lok Sabha and contemplate the ceiling.

However, whether Modi should be in the seat is a different question. I hope it is no him,but someone far less polarizing would be my choice. A Sushma or someone would have been ideal . Maybe to dislodge Congress one needs someone with the skill, acumen and ability to deploy shock troops like a Modi, but it is difficult to see how a BJP alone will win.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sushupti »

This dude showing his true color. Like a Pisacha, gnawing his teeth after being driven out of the body , through the power of Mantra.

Image

Image
Last edited by Sushupti on 17 Jun 2013 10:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by abhijitm »

BJP alone will not win unless they start consolidating all hindu votes. There is too much divide and BJP is hardly putting any effort to do so. Just a backward class CM will not do. They have to reach to the roots within villages and towns where SP, BSP, JDs have reached.

Sushama Swaraj or for that matter any person who has not even governed a state as CM to a full term is not a right candidate for being PM of a huge country like India. This has to be changed into a law to forbid any such person to sneak and become PM. That is one of the ways to end dynasty.

If Congress has any sense they would field Sheila Dikshit againt Modi. Today only she can be a formidable opponent of Modi. Otherwise nobody comes even close to him.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Vikas »

What is this soft corner for SS or AJ that lot of people have. Why is she even being propped up in comparison to NaMo.
Even if BJP does not win in 2014, at least someone has changed the rules of the game for 2014 and hopefully for future.
India needs someone like Modi or else MMS is a pretty good non divisive, soft, "Your Servent" kind of person to lead the govt.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by darshhan »

muraliravi wrote:
Sir, this niku is absolutely a hype unprecedented in indian history. please do me a favor and see bihar 2000 election results. BJP contested many more seats. Got 67, niku got 21. Why on earth was his party given more seats in 2005, who proposed this loser as a cm nominee for nda.
Sushil Modi. He is the reason why BJP is junior partner to JD(U) in Bihar. While it is good that finally BJP separated from JD(U), but Bihar BJP could do well with someone better than Sushil Modi at helm.

Sushil Modi is nothing but an extension of LK and NK in another body. Bihar BJP needs a new chief, if BJP is serious about winning Bihar seats.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

Somehow his ego cought up with him and he can not escape his own antics.

Diggi Raja is new INC incharge of AP. Some thing cooking on Telangana??? I do not know. NaMo is expected to give push for BJP in Hyderabad/Telangana region. He may win one or two seats for BJP. But INC must lose AP and INC-B Jagan Criminal gang also shall lose. CBN will cut money suppy for INC and Jagan shall also be wipped out as he poses a long term threat.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by darshhan »

vina wrote:Congress must be kicked out for one term, .
Understatement of the Century.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RoyG »

Sudheendra Kulkarni is a marxist. He wants to keep India in the dark by keeping Sonia in power. Finally revealed his loyalty.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

vina wrote:Congress must be kicked out for one term, I agree. Manmohan Singh has run the most venal , corrupt and incompetent government ever in the history of the country (leaving out the Janata Ding dongs). In addition the audacity of trying to coverup by dictating /altering investigation reports of the CBI that were court mandated is breathtaking. Congress needs to sit in the opposition for sometime in the Lok Sabha and contemplate the ceiling.
Now that is clear thinking, Vina ji. You've restored my faith in our mutual alma mater !!
However, whether Modi should be in the seat is a different question. I hope it is no him,but someone far less polarizing would be my choice. A Sushma or someone would have been ideal . Maybe to dislodge Congress one needs someone with the skill, acumen and ability to deploy shock troops like a Modi, but it is difficult to see how a BJP alone will win.
If you're talking about ultimate PM-ship ability - I don't think there is anybody who compares to Modi either within the BJP or without.

If you're talking about winnability in elections for BJP - those polarized against Modi (mainly Muslims & Christians) would not necessarily vote for BJP under any other face. Even if we assume 1% swing away from Modi due to those sections moving away - the gain from the pro-Modi faction that comes in solely because of Modi (on account of either his development or Hindutva image) is probably way higher.

If you're talking about getting alliance partners - there you are correct Modi as face might take a hit. But that only becomes relevant once BJP standalone numbers are known.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Neela »

vina wrote:
However, whether Modi should be in the seat is a different question. I hope it is no him,but someone far less polarizing would be my choice. A Sushma or someone would have been ideal . Maybe to dislodge Congress one needs someone with the skill, acumen and ability to deploy shock troops like a Modi, but it is difficult to see how a BJP alone will win.

I think it is time to invent a polarization meter and a authoritarian meter. Two things which desperately need quantification. And once I have these, I am going to test it on:
- Shah Bano case
- Emergency of 1975
- "When a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake"
- "Muslims have first right to resources"
- Nehru's "gentle" approach of having furreign educated people in Cabinet.
- SoniaG reacting to police officers of the Indian state after recent events in Maoist-land.
-
And then I would test the meter on Narendra Modi. Of course the polarization meter needs to be re-calibrated for him because two damn f???ng Congress rules states REFUSED to send CRPF during 2002, every state instrument turned against him and he has the entire scumbag of the media working against him.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by geeth »

Other past 'all-lies' of BJP were .. Telugu Desam, BJD, Mamta, Samta, Jayalalitha, Chautala, JD(S), BSP, DMK, Vaiko, Omar Abdullah etc.

Now, pick from above which of them you want as company/partner along with your march towards 2014?

All of the BJP partners were opportunists and sikular, except Amma. Even Amma could not show her true colours for fear of losing sikular votes. I mean, what is the use of such partners BEFORE the elections? They will only put conditions which are helpful in securing votes for themselves at the expense of BJP.

It is better to go alone or at the most have behind the scene adjustments, than any overt partnership, in which case both will suffer.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

My two khota sikkas:

If the opponent is a strong one and you decide to take up the fight the primary result for you would be that you would come out strong, even if you lose.

If the friend is strong and you decide to take up the friendship it will benefit both and make both strong even if the friends together lose.

When under ABV and LKA the coalition was formed, even the BJP guys were quite clear that a large majority of the partners were weak hands. Weak hands who could not be a good friend nor good enemies. At best these guys are good followers and at worst purchasable parties to an agreement. Because of the soft mushy nature of this part ideally no hardline position is justifiable unless, once in a while, a 'paternalistic' line is thought necessary to force their hands.

At the same time not getting taken in, into a 'mush is all and all is well' kind of self defeating position should ideally be guarded against full time. To my view BJP under LKA in last 10 years, failed this important point. Hindutva they had already diluted to an unbelievable level. Kejriwal ran away with the corruption plank. The social trust created in Bihar NDA and elsewhere were lost to weak hands.

LKA carries very little credibility in terms of coalition brand equtiy. Tomorrow even if a new concord is to be established countrywide it has to come on a fresh more balanced approach. Tails like Niku should never again be in a position to wag the dog.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Elections are won or lost at Booth levels, one person (whomsoever) can do only so much. This view has been echoed by all those who follow elections, including people like Amit Shah.

The challenge for Modi is to energize the team up to booth levels -- the good part of the information available so far is
1) Modi is indeed deeply aware of that and not buying into any cool aid about "naam hi kaafi hai" (name alone sufficies)
2) Modi is indeed helping the grass root BJP workers feel good about putting their best foot forward (ex current behavior of Bihar state BJP unit)

These two are IMVHO, the ONLY TWO +ve signs on the ground (however if true, they are really +ve)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by devesh »

folks, even if BJP becomes the single largest party in LS in 2014, and still fails to form govt, we should not be disappointed. we should allow the opponents to all come under one banner. show their colors so to speak. when all of your enemies are baring their teeth and snarling, it's not necessarily a bad thing. for one, you wake up and take note that "friends" are not really being that friendly.

forget the electoral dynamics. the people of India need to see who's who on the chessboard. there is no better way of showing them than to prove that a genuinely able and progressive agenda/leader will still loose out b/c of the devils who will work to keep them out. it forces everyone to choose. and forcing the assorted regional politicians to take a stand is right move for the future.

I am happy this is happening. even if BJP doesn't come to power, what is happening is good.

IMHO, onlee.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

I cant help but think in terms of the withholding of the HP assembly election results until after the Gujarat elections were out. Add to that the margin of victory for the INC in HP.

I fear for the future of the nation. It seems that we are destined for a repeat of the hopeless lost decades of the 70s and 80s.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

In all the diatribe and fulminations based on the news from "sources"; important pieces like this get missed

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/no-pl ... /1129999/0
"The NDA government has been doing very well in Bihar and the world noticed the progress we made. In 2010, there was an attempt made to destabilise the equation (by central BJP leaders) but we got over it. However, the fast change of events in recent months pushed us to the wall," the CM added, saying they were not afraid of the consequences.
So what was the central BJP leadership (yeah the same D4 in bed with Niku) doing in 2010 to piss JD(U) off? Any guesses ;)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

SwamyG wrote:Theo...if NK had never voiced anything about 'secularism' or NAMO the alliance would have still dithered along. All he had to do was keeping working for the betterment of his state. He could have opened his viewers after BJP had announced its PM candidate. He is a puppet or just trying to make some deal. Do you expect me to believe he is really a secular or that he cares one way or the other. In politics secularism is the last refuge of scoundrels. A true secular keeps religion separate from the government. He was twisting BJP's arm. It broke. :mrgreen:
There was no need to crown a king at this moment which is really what NK opposed. What he said is fight the next election on issues and then based on outcome decide the leader. Of course he would throw his hat in at that moment. But you can not go into the election with the monarch already 'selected'. No way NK goes into the elections as second fiddle. Remember LKA gave up his pride in order to allow the BJP to win under ABV. Not this time apparently....
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

Again what was it the NaMo did that gave NiKu such a khujli. What is JD(U)s problem. Why were they giving ultimatum to the BJP. Hoping that the BJP will be deterred.

In a way by showing their allergy to NaMo, the JD(U) made it all but certain that BJP being a cadre based party will choose NaMo. So why did JD(U) act the way it did.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Theo_Fidel wrote:There was no need to crown a king at this moment which is really what NK opposed. What he said is fight the next election on issues and then based on outcome decide the leader.
And that is exactly what the BJP also decided at Goa, in case you didn't notice. No 'king' was crowned as PM candidate, but a person to lead the electoral campaign was chosen which is obviously the BJP right, and decision was taken to determine PM candidate later based on outcome.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Hari Seldon »

Laloo on Nitish (telegraph)

"Aisa koi sagaa nahin, jise Nitish ne Thagaa nahin..."
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Pratyush »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
There was no need to crown a king at this moment which is really what NK opposed. What he said is fight the next election on issues and then based on outcome decide the leader. Of course he would throw his hat in at that moment. But you can not go into the election with the monarch already 'selected'. No way NK goes into the elections as second fiddle. Remember LKA gave up his pride in order to allow the BJP to win under ABV. Not this time apparently....
Bliss tell us who is the king, that has been crowned by the BJP. We hope that it will be Modi. But has Modi actually been projected by BJP as an official PM candidate.

Also, why this khujli in the back side of every one and his uncle, WRT, the Modi's candidacy for PM ship. Why is every one trying to put pressure on the BJP to either

1) Declare Modi as the PM candidate.
2) Not declare Modi as the PM candidate.

Why is every 2 bit character in Indian polity not concerned with defeating the UPA, and deciding the PM ship post the 2014 election. Why are they so concerned with knowing who will be the PM candidate post 2014. Should'nt the most important point be defeating the UPA.

It is in this light that LKA is saying the NaMo is not the automatic choice for PM ship.

But still people have this khujli, why?
Last edited by Pratyush on 17 Jun 2013 11:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by prahaar »

Theo_Fidel wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Theo...if NK had never voiced anything about 'secularism' or NAMO the alliance would have still dithered along. All he had to do was keeping working for the betterment of his state. He could have opened his viewers after BJP had announced its PM candidate. He is a puppet or just trying to make some deal. Do you expect me to believe he is really a secular or that he cares one way or the other. In politics secularism is the last refuge of scoundrels. A true secular keeps religion separate from the government. He was twisting BJP's arm. It broke. :mrgreen:
There was no need to crown a king at this moment which is really what NK opposed. What he said is fight the next election on issues and then based on outcome decide the leader. Of course he would throw his hat in at that moment. But you can not go into the election with the monarch already 'selected'. No way NK goes into the elections as second fiddle. Remember LKA gave up his pride in order to allow the BJP to win under ABV. Not this time apparently....
Sir, if you did not follow the news, NiKu wanted an ASSURANCE that NAMO will NOT be considered for PM, even if the numbers dictate a possibility of BJP leading the coalition. Get your facts straight.
Locked