CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 15 Oct 2010 04:16

^^ How effective will this be in a conventional war, or is this meant for fighting insurgents?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 19 Oct 2010 00:53

Jagan wrote:
Aditya G wrote:

*hat tip*

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Oct 2010 00:46

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/oth ... epage=true

2 JEM terrorists killed by 2 RR / Kilo Force

What is that tripod on the right?

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 22 Oct 2010 00:54

Manfrotto Video Tripod. Must be some media person's tripod.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 22 Oct 2010 13:01

2 Jaish-e-Mohammad militants killed in gun battle near Srinagar http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_2- ... ar_1455898

Two militants of Jaish-e-Mohammad (JEM) outfit were today killed in a day-long gun battle with security forces in Malroo locality on the outskirts of Srinagar city.

The militants were killed after the security forces blasted two houses, where the two and their accomplice were believed to be hiding since last night. Two bodies have been recovered, police said.

According to police, security forces had information about the presence of three hardcore JeM militants in a house belonging to a property dealer in the locality, 15km from here.

As the gun battle broke out between the two sides, one of the militants had jumped out of the house of the property dealer and taken shelter in the neighbouring house, police said.

Two policemen and a young girl were injured by stray bullets at nearby Goripora and Shalteng localities while another girl fell from the first floor of her house and suffered head injury, the sources said.

SSP Srinagar Ashiq Bukhari told reporters that the encounter has ended but the search operation for the third militant was going on.

He said the militants were coming towards Srinagar city from Bandipora district and they were being tailed by the security forces since yesterday.

Bukhari confirmed that one suspected person was detained for questioning before the encounter began.

Earlier, several explosions were heard as security forces launched an assault to flush out the militants.

The two sides exchanged heavy volume of firing soon after security forces evacuated civilians including large number of women and children to safety from the houses in the vicinity of the building where the militants were taking shelter, they said.

The encounter started after police and troops of 2 Rashtriya Rifles cordoned off Malroo locality in the wee hours following a tip off about the presence of at least three militants in one of the houses in the area.

The ultras opened fire on the security forces when they were zeroing in on the house. The troops retaliated following which a gun battle ensued, they said.

At one stage, security forces sent a group of locals to persuade the militants to surrender, they said. However, the ultras refused the offer.

A helicopter was seen flying very low over the house after which one of the militants started firing towards it, they said.

A defence spokesperson said the movement of the choppers in the area is for routine administrative purposes as the headquarters of counter-insurgency 'Kilo Force' is located in nearby Shariefabad area.

"We do not use helicopters during encounter operations," Lt Colonel JS Brar said.

Director general of police Kuldeep Khoda told reporters that the operation was launched last night.

He said the security forces were alert to the challenge of militancy and necessary steps were being taken to thwart them.

This is the first encounter in Srinagar city since January six suicide attack at Lal Chowk.

The north Kashmir belt, comprising Kupwara, Bandipora and Baramulla districts, have witnessed surge in militant activity during the current year as a large number of infiltration bids have taken place near Line of Control in these districts.

More than 100 militants have been killed in these districts since January this year.

niran · Post by **niran** » 23 Oct 2010 13:38

Local NEWS channel is showing 3 piglets saheed while infiltrating in Uri.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 23 Oct 2010 15:05

^^
NDTV also reports that all 3 militants have been killed.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 23 Oct 2010 15:55

The soldiers seem to be using sign language in the pic there. The lead soldier at least seems to be gesturing there.

Now even the special forces don't extensively use close in communication equipment on each soldier. They must have some means of communicating with each other without disturbing the peace. How much of sign language are they taught?

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 23 Oct 2010 16:10

^^
Every IA infantryman is taught sign language adequately.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 25 Oct 2010 23:23

X-POSTED DGP Roy seemed PR-hungry during 26/11

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW/ .K. DUTT, FORMER DIRECTOR-GENERAL, NATIONAL SECURITY GUARD

By Anupam Dasgupta/New Delhi

Sarvatra Sarvottam Suraksha (Constant comprehensive security) is their credo. They are the men in black, the men who brightened India’s dark November, saved lives and salvaged a nation’s wounded pride. From November 26 to 29, 2008, hundreds of hours of news footage was shot in Mumbai as the National Security Guard (NSG) went about eliminating the nine Pakistani terrorists who killed 173 people. Operation Black Tornado over, the heroes disappeared, taking their two dead brothers with them—Major Sandeep Unnikrishnan and Havildar Gajendra Singh Bhist.
Twenty-three months later, J.K. Dutt, the then NSG director-general, talked to THE WEEK for five hours, sharing the wows and woes of the operation. The interview was held in New Delhi, at the India International Centre and later at Dutt’s Vasant Kunj residence.
He said that a senior babu from Delhi had called him during the operation and said: “Yaar Dutt, ye kab tak chalega [Hey Dutt, how long will this go on]? Send in your commandos and crush those guys, even if that means losing a few of your men.”
The soldier in Dutt was thunderstruck by the speaker’s callous approach to uniformed lives. “I was not prepared to lose a single man,” said Dutt. “Even today, when I look back at the operation, I see Sandeep’s and Gajendra’s deaths as too many deaths [not as two deaths].” Sandeep was shot dead at the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel and Gajendra died in the heli-borne operation at Nariman House.
A 1972-batch Indian Police Service officer from the West Bengal cadre, Dutt said he was deeply disappointed by the way in which then Maharashtra Director General of Police A.N. Roy handled himself and his force. “The DGP appeared more interested in PR than getting deeply involved in the situation,” said Dutt. “Roy called me up twice to inquire if Maharashtra Home Minister R.R. Patil could pay a visit to the Taj. That was something definitely not desirable of the DGP at that point.”
The NSG was handicapped by misinformation and lack of information, said Dutt. In the interview he detailed the botch-up where the then Intelligence Bureau director P.C. Haldar sent him a cellphone number saying it belonged to a hostage in Nariman House. The phone actually belonged to a terrorist! Dutt said Haldar “acted in good faith”. He also spoke about an exclusive bit of misinformation—the ‘secret, sea-facing tunnel’ under the Taj!
Dutt was at the NSG base in Manesar, Haryana, when he saw the 26/11 attack on TV. While the TV anchor dismissed it as a gang war, Dutt’s gut instinct said otherwise. He alerted his men and waited. At midnight, Cabinet Secretary K.M. Chandrasekhar called to say there were foreign terrorists in Mumbai. At 12:50 a.m. on November 27, Chandrasekhar called again. The message was brief: Maharashtra chief minister Vilasrao Deshmukh had asked for NSG assistance.
Dutt called Haldar and asked for all the information they had. The IB was already intercepting cellphone traffic between the terrorists and their Pakistani handlers, with active help from the US.
In a way, Dutt was handicapped as his two key aides were on leave—Major General A.K. Gupta, IG (Operations), and Brigadier S.C. Rangi, the force commander. He asked an air vice marshal if Gupta could be flown from Dehradun to Mumbai. But the air vice marshal advised against a night airlift from Dehradun. Dutt then asked Gupta to fly to Mumbai asap. Rangi was in Rohtak, Haryana, for a wedding.
In the run-up to Operation Black Tornado, Dutt was in touch with Chandrasekhar, Madhukar Gupta, the home secretary, who was abroad, and Sanjeev Tripathi, who was heading the aviation research centre of the Research and Analysis Wing.
So, 200 NSG commandos led by Dutt and Brigadier G.S. Sisodia, IG (Operations & training), reached Palam airport’s technical centre at 2:00 a.m. on November 27, 2008. With them was a sniffer dog, who would later nose out the body of the ninth terrorist from under the wreckage in the Taj.

sum · Post by **sum** » 26 Oct 2010 08:54

The IB was already intercepting cellphone traffic between the terrorists and their Pakistani handlers, with active help from the US.

What??

Didn't US help come to us after 26/11 in getting the call logs from Thuraya in Dubai etc since we couldn't intercept sat phones at that time? Does US help us even in routine real time TECHINT??

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 27 Oct 2010 12:26

Confronting Terrorism: Maroof Raza

When 26/11 Mumbai happened, I was on a road trip in Texas and saw the footage coming in over CNN, in a hotel ironically meticulously run by immigrants from India. They shook their heads in dismay and utter sadness. While we watched in horror and then I read and spoke with colleagues about the terror in India, the majority of the analysts to whom the American public and scholars were exposed, were not from India.

Maroof Raza, a former Indian army officer, with sterling academic credentials including trained in Delhi, London and Cambridge, was approached by Penguin India to bring out this collection of essays after the attacks.

Confronting Terrorism is unusual in that the array of essays touch on nearly all aspects which need to be addressed, ranging from an overview of the history of terrorism in India, a comparative study of the terror networks from the West and South Asia, India’s vast military complex and regional challenges, an elucidating discussion of COIN for Jammu and Kashmir, to even the “constable on patrol” who was suddenly tasked with dealing with highly skilled and equipped terrorists.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 28 Oct 2010 13:12

latest stats

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_21 ... my_1458315

A total of 216 militants have been killed and 39 arrested in Jammu & Kashmir since January this year, the Indian Army today said.

"As a result of sustained Infantry oriented operations since January 1, 2010 till date, 216 terrorists have been killed, 39 apprehended and six have surrendered on their own", a northern command spokesperson said.

The army suffered 43 casualties while 81 soldiers were injured during counter terrorist operations by the northern command troops, he said.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Nov 2010 23:07

When I see the CT operations in Iraq and Afghanistan I worry at the gradual eastward transmission of IED and EFP technology. Seeing the post battle pictures and confiscated materials the stuff is getting bigger and bigger. In fact they are larger and more powerful than traditional military combat weapons.

Some of the EFP pre-cursor materials are seen to be believed. Very massive. I think its prudent for Indian CT and COIN forces to get familiar with whats out there for it will soon reach India.

A good idea is to send some Engineering/Sapper forces for study tour to Iraq to get familiar.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 06 Nov 2010 03:01

Posting after a long time.

A breathtaking interview with EN Rammohan, former DG BSF, regarding his report on the Dantewada massacre. Im not surprised the more "mainstream" channels dont interview him. He is a VERY candid man, on a range of issues connected with the Naxal problem, including operations, reasons for insurgency, and the much touted "Air Power against naxals", over which the Home Minister eventually had to eat crow. Worth a watch. Real journalism, instead of the canned rubbish which some media outlets put out. ENR was head of the BSF in Kashmir, before becoming DG. He was also in ITBP on deputation at the start of his career.

A simple example of the tone of the interview:

Interviewer: "We dont usually hear of cops talking about the poor and tribals..."

ENR: "Why should we not talk about them? Who are they? They are our own people. Not some strangers.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckOyZNXR ... re=channel [Part1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm35p14D ... re=channel [Part2]

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 06 Nov 2010 04:29

Thanks ASP

It was interesting to note his mention of the arrogance of caste

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 06 Nov 2010 15:07

ASPuar,
Thanks a lot for posting this interview. It was a very interesting watch. However, I was surprised to hear the good man say that Pu Laldenga was ex IA!

That is incorrect as he was in fact a bank clerk prior to forming MNF.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 06 Nov 2010 16:17

^^He also talks about mautam(bamboo flowering) accompanied by an increase in rat population which caused the mizo famine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mautam

Mautam (Mizo, ’bamboo death’; also spelt mautaam) is a cyclic ecological phenomenon that occurs every 48 years in the northeastern Indian states of Mizoram and Manipur, which are thirty percent covered by wild bamboo forests, as well as Chin State in Burma, particularly Hakha, Thantlang, Falam, Paletwa and Matupi Townships, creating a widespread famine in those areas.[1] At this time, Melocanna baccifera, a species of bamboo, flowers at one time across a wide area.
This event is followed invariably by a plague of Black Rats in what is called a rat flood.[2][3] This occurs as the rats multiply in response to the temporary windfall of seeds and leave the forests to forage on stored grain when the bamboo seeds are exhausted, which in turn causes devastating famine.[4] In the past, famines caused by this phenomenon have played a significant part in shaping the region's political history. The most recent spate of flowering, on the bamboo species' genetically-linked timetable, began in May 2006, and the state government and the Indian Army are attempting to prevent a famine.
Contents [hide]
1 Mechanism
2 See also
3 References
4 External links
[edit]Mechanism

After flowering, the bamboo dies and regenerates from the seeds. The rodents feast on these seeds which are available in plenty. In consequence, there is a sudden boom in the rat population. The action of the rats is thought to be an ecological control mechanism. The seeds of any culm of bamboo that might flower off-cycle are all eaten up by rodents, thus reinforcing the rhythm of this extreme version of a mast year. Some experts believe that the flower has a positive effect on the fertility of the rats, as well as on increasing the viable size of a rat litter. All available explanations point to the fact that the increase in their numbers during the peak year is a natural after-effect of the flowering of the bamboos.
However, once they exhaust this temporarily abundant food supply, the rats turn their attention to cultivated crops. Records from the British Raj indicate that Mizoram suffered famine in 1862 and again in 1911, after the region witnessed similar bamboo flowerings. In each case, the records suggest that the flowering of the bamboo leads to a dramatic increase in the local rat population. The increase led to raids on granaries and the destruction of paddy fields, and subsequently to a year-long famine.
The 1958–1959 Mautam resulted in the recorded deaths of at least a hundred people, besides heavy loss to human property and crops. Some elderly villagers in the undeveloped more traditional region, recalling this event, have claimed that their warnings based on folk traditions were dismissed as superstition by the Government of Assam, which then ruled what is now the state of Mizoram. It has been estimated that around two million rats were killed and collected by the locals, after a bounty of 40 paisa (approximately 1 US cent according to present-day rates) was placed on each. However, even after the increase in the rat population was noted, preparations by the government to avoid a famine were limited.
This negligence led to the foundation of the Mizo National Famine Front, set up to provide relief to the far-flung areas. This body later became the Mizo National Front, which, under former Chief Minister Laldenga, fought a bitter separatist struggle for twenty years against the Indian Army until an accord that guaranteed Mizoram's autonomy as a separate state was signed in 1986.
Chief Minister Zoramthanga, a former guerilla leader, made preparations for the predicted 2006 Mautam for two years. In June 2006, the Indian Army was pressed into service as an emergency measure to assist the state administration in reaching remote areas. The state administration arranged for alternate food crops to be grown locally; and also arranged for the army to provide instructions on pest control. Villagers were encouraged to grow turmeric and ginger, partially as an insurance against variations in purchasing power, and also because the aromatic spices ward off rodent raids.
Regular rodent outbreaks associated with bamboo flowering (and subsequent fruiting and seeding) also occur in the nearby Indian states of Arunachal Pradesh, Manipur, and Nagaland[5], as well as in Laos, Japan, Madagascar and South America.[6] Thingtam, a similar famine, occurs with the flowering of another bamboo, Bambusa tulda.[7]

atreya · Post by **atreya** » 06 Nov 2010 16:22

Interviewer: "Aren't you part of the system?"
ENR: "I am a police officer, I cannot enforce land revenue laws"

Man! He and Air Chief Marshal PV Naik should get together for a press conference sometime.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Nov 2010 19:03

http://vodpod.com/watch/3690321-walk-th ... n-rammohan

Walk the Talk with EN Rammohan

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 06 Nov 2010 20:22

^^
Thanks a lot! Did not know he was interviewed by other channels too.
BTW, here is the full 20 min version if anyone is interested:
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/walk-t ... han/143030

Added Later: Just downloaded saw the whole interview. This is without a doubt one of the best interviews I have ever seen. What an inspiring man! This is an interview which no jingo should miss.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 08 Nov 2010 15:27

Note the fact that EN Rammohan had a son in the Army, who passed away last year. He is a good man, who believes in his country.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Nov 2010 15:46

ASP sahab, thanks for posting that link. I hope there are more people like him in the CPMFs.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 08 Nov 2010 15:55

ASP sahab, thanks for posting that link. I hope there are more people like him in the CPMFs.

Actually, he is a retired IPS officer of the Assam Meghalaya cadre. But he spent a lot of time on deputation in CPMF's, including as Director General, BSF, which is one of the seniormost IPS Cadre posts (it is only held by IPS officers, and not by CPMF/CPO cadre officers, which has been the system in place since the start).

He wrote a book called "Simply Khaki", about his career. Its a good read. A good man.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 08 Nov 2010 18:50

There is a Shekhar Gupta interview with him
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/crpf- ... e/623268/9

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 08 Nov 2010 21:50

well, with his designations it was obvious that he was IPS, all CPMFs except AR are led by IPS officers aren't they ? my comment was about tackling COIN which is why I mentioned CPMFs and not state police forces.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 09 Nov 2010 01:07

Obvious to you, I am sure, but perhaps not to some of our other less well informed members, who may have misunderstood your comment. I posted in detail for their benefit. Incidentally, Rammohan was also an Army officer at the beginning of his career.

You are correct, all CPMF's are led by IPS except for AR, Indian Coast Guard, which of course is led by a Naval Officer, and Defence Security Corps. The concept of CPMF's was pioneered by KF Rustamji, IP, who created the BSF from the Punjab Armed Police in the 1960s. CRP was older, but was essentially (and still is) a police force, not a paramilitary.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Nov 2010 01:50

ASPuar, is the IG-SFF also from IPS?

For RR, understand each force is led by GOC-in-C Major General, but is there an administrative head of the whole RR?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Nov 2010 05:14

Aditya G wrote:ASPuar, is the IG-SFF also from IPS?

For RR, understand each force is led by GOC-in-C Major General, but is there an administrative head of the whole RR?

There is a Lt.General Rank Officer who is DG RR.

AFAIK, IG SFF is an IA Officer.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Nov 2010 05:35

ASPuar wrote:Note the fact that EN Rammohan had a son in the Army, who passed away last year. He is a good man, who believes in his country.

Thank you for sharing this. Its really heartening to see such people and what they contribute for the nation. He has come under criticism on occasion but all said and done, it is amazing how he has kept his integrity, despite provocations and dwelt on rule of law to deal with militants.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 11 Nov 2010 21:04

ASPuar wrote:Incidentally, Rammohan was also an Army officer at the beginning of his career.

there seem to be a few from his gen who switched from army to civil service and IPS. GP comes to mind obviously. are these isolated cases or was there some institutionalized channel for Army officers to move into civil bureaucracy ? do you know if there is such a breed in today's generation of CS/IPS people ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2010 21:18

No there is no insititutional channel to join the civil service strea, If they pass the civil service exams then the start fresh.

In TSP the mistake was that they allowed the TSPA officer to keep his rank and thus get seniority. What it did was that it militarized the civil service and led to the TSPA culture. The mango people didn't see the difference between civilians and Army rule. De-facto Praetorization.

In British India days the British Army officers also started fresh when they joined the ICS. Eg. Hugh Tinker etc. right after 1945.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Nov 2010 21:24

^^^ramana, please correct me if I'm wrong but me thinks that officers continued to retain their seniority - numbers of years served in the Services - when they qualified for Civil Services.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2010 21:26

From what I was told for pension etc but not for service in the civilian side. For example a newbie starts out as sub-collector during probationary period. Same with the ex-officer. They move up based on ability and not any previous service. The senioirity isn't transferred.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 11 Nov 2010 22:46

ramana wrote:When I see the CT operations in Iraq and Afghanistan I worry at the gradual eastward transmission of IED and EFP technology. Seeing the post battle pictures and confiscated materials the stuff is getting bigger and bigger. In fact they are larger and more powerful than traditional military combat weapons.

Some of the EFP pre-cursor materials are seen to be believed. Very massive. I think its prudent for Indian CT and COIN forces to get familiar with whats out there for it will soon reach India.

A good idea is to send some Engineering/Sapper forces for study tour to Iraq to get familiar.

Don't you think that presence of locals in the organisation and the fact that they are operating in their own country will give Indian forces a fair bit of advantage when compared to NATO forces in Iraq and Afghanistan ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2010 23:18

I am talking technology getting transferred eastwards. IOW a qualitative improvement. What has that got to do with locals etc?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 11 Nov 2010 23:27

Bits and pieces of technology is already there. Bombing of para-military, police convoys by means of IEDs hidden under roads has already occurred more than once. Agreed that it still has not reached the scale that you are referring to.

By locals, I meant that NATO forces are foreigners fighting a war in a very alien environment 1000s of Km away from their countries and thus are largely unfamiliar with local conditions. Co-operation if any by the locals is limited. Indian forces don't have this disadvantage, at least not as much as NATO .

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2010 23:52

Again, it has noting to do with locals. It might be a disincentive due to thinking "it can't happen; they are our people onlee!"

As you can see the terrorists arent getting much hits. So they will up the ante!

All I am saying is better get acquainted to whats happening elsewhere.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 12 Nov 2010 00:39

^^Ramana ji.I agree with your viewpoint.Instead of being reactive , we should be prepared in advance.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 14 Nov 2010 15:06

J&K: Infiltration bid foiled, two militants killed