India-US News and Discussion

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 24 Apr 2010 00:56

x-post Zazi's Pal pleads guilty in N.Y. terror plot
Cab driver Zarein Ahmedzay, (Classmate and co-conspirator of Najibullah Zazi) pleaded guilty in federal court in Brooklyn to conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction ..

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 24 Apr 2010 02:55

It is unlikely to stand various court challenge and Federal law ... but Gov. Jan Brewer Just signed it.
NYtimes story (fairly big story)
.S.’s Toughest Immigration Law Is Signed in Arizona

The law, which opponents and critics alike said was the broadest and strictest immigration measure in the country in generations, would make the failure to carry immigration documents a crime. It would also give the police broad power to detain anyone suspected of being in the country illegally. Opponents have decried it as an open invitation for harassment and discrimination against Hispanics regardless of their citizenship status.

...The law would take effect in August. Court challenges are expected immediately.

Hispanics, not long ago courted by the Republican Party as a swing voting bloc, in particular railed against the law as a recipe for racial and ethnic profiling that would recharge voter registration drives.

The Catholic archbishop of Los Angeles called the authorities’ ability to demand documents Nazism. While police demands of documents are common on subways, highways and in public places in some countries, including France, Arizona is the first state to demand that immigrants meet federal requirements to carry identity documents legitimizing their presence on American soil.

Obviously for Indian Americans in Arizona - This could lead to harassment.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 24 Apr 2010 04:50

Amber G. wrote:It is unlikely to stand various court challenge and Federal law ... but Gov. Jan Brewer Just signed it.
NYtimes story (fairly big story)
.S.’s Toughest Immigration Law Is Signed in Arizona

The law, which opponents and critics alike said was the broadest and strictest immigration measure in the country in generations, would make the failure to carry immigration documents a crime. It would also give the police broad power to detain anyone suspected of being in the country illegally. Opponents have decried it as an open invitation for harassment and discrimination against Hispanics regardless of their citizenship status.

...The law would take effect in August. Court challenges are expected immediately.

Hispanics, not long ago courted by the Republican Party as a swing voting bloc, in particular railed against the law as a recipe for racial and ethnic profiling that would recharge voter registration drives.

The Catholic archbishop of Los Angeles called the authorities’ ability to demand documents Nazism. While police demands of documents are common on subways, highways and in public places in some countries, including France, Arizona is the first state to demand that immigrants meet federal requirements to carry identity documents legitimizing their presence on American soil.
Obviously for Indian Americans in Arizona - This could lead to harassment.

Not just Indian-Americans in Arizona, any foreign-looking person visiting Arizona. Remember, Le Grande Canyon is in le Arizona.

So, if a desi-looking person from Calif. or Virginia is visiting Grand Canyon, do he have to carry his H1/Green Card/US Passport? And what if they dont? What are the penalties? Would they be detained until they are proven to be legal? And what about desi-looking ABCDs, as American citizens they would not need to carry their passports, I suppose? How would a cop know they are citizens. Is their word alone, enough? This law is a mess.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 24 Apr 2010 04:53

Not just Indian-Americans in Arizona, any foreign-looking person visiting Arizona. So, if a desi-looking person from Calif. or Virginia is visiting Grand Canyon, do he have to carry his H1/Green Card/US Passport? And what if they dont? What are the penalties? Would they be detained until they are proven to be legal? And what about desi-looking ABCDs, as American citizens would they not need to carry their passports, would they? Would they be asked to prove their US credentials, or is their word alone enough? Would there be detention until the credentials are proven. This law is a mess.

Passports and Birth Certificates are the only proof of citizenships/legal residence acceptable IIRC. Driver's License/State ID don't matter. I would assume detention is till USCIS can verify citizenship.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 24 Apr 2010 04:58

pgbhat wrote:
Not just Indian-Americans in Arizona, any foreign-looking person visiting Arizona. So, if a desi-looking person from Calif. or Virginia is visiting Grand Canyon, do he have to carry his H1/Green Card/US Passport? And what if they dont? What are the penalties? Would they be detained until they are proven to be legal? And what about desi-looking ABCDs, as American citizens would they not need to carry their passports, would they? Would they be asked to prove their US credentials, or is their word alone enough? Would there be detention until the credentials are proven. This law is a mess.
Passports and Birth Certificates are the only proof of citizenships/legal residence acceptable IIRC. Driver's License/State ID don't matter. I would assume detention is till USCIS can verify citizenship.

White Americans are not required to carry their passports. So, they wont be asked for it if they are stopped by cops. What is the procedure if a desi-looking guy says he's a US citizen and therefore need not carry a passport? Should they believe him?

Added later: My questions in the first post were partly rhetorical. There is a huge scope for abuse in this law. Implementation will be a nightmare.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Apr 2010 06:26

CRamS wrote:
shukla wrote:LeT poses common threat to US, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan: US

Whose intelligence is US trying to insult? India's? TSP's? TSP would be laughing their ass off, even as they accept this characterization. Their solution: lets resume composite dialouge so that India can find some way to hand over Kashmir valley and then LET would no longer be a threat to "world peace".

I am f$%^*$%g sick and tired of seeing US unable to come around and accept that TSP views LET as a crucial asset in its arsenal against India. Do they fake this ignorance and put out this sophistry as a means to appear to India that they are against LET?

Have you guys notice that Indian elite cowards have gone slow on this "terrorism poses a threat to TSP also" mantra? At least on this count, I am with the Pakijabis who in no uncertain terms have possibly conveyed to SDRE elites that if you cowards want to fight it out, lets do so, but please shove your condescending concern for us right up your anatomy where it belongs. We ain't scared of any LET, give us Kashmir for a start and we'll see where we go from there.

Well said...

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 24 Apr 2010 06:32

What is the procedure if a desi-looking guy says he's a US citizen and therefore need not carry a passport? Should they believe him?

This is what scaring many mayors etc..If they did not believe him/her and indeed arrested or harassed, and it turned out an US citizen (who did not have a wallet with him at that time, or just did not feel like showing a passport even if he had one) , they are likely to be sued with false arrest and this can put a very high financial burden on small cities there etc (they can go bankrupt).

(Police officer may ask/request a citizen for identification but are not allowed to demand for identification, (courts have ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it) or even demand to know the person's name ..unless they have reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred (or about to occur) (In practice laws may be slightly different in different states/localities/federal buildings etc - A traffic cop may ask for your licence and such, if you are stopped )

(BTW - starting only a year or so ago - when the law started requiring passport or an official ID while travelling to Canada. In the past we (or most people in US) did not carry US passport or birth certificate not only in US but even while travelling to Canada. In fact apart from people asking if we were us citizen, at the crossing, I don't ever remember showing any kind of ID at the US/Canada border for 100's or crossing over many years - even when we had non us citizens in our car they will just ask to see passport or green card from only those who said they are not US citizen)..

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Apr 2010 06:34

Reprocessing deal may sail through US Congress

'It may be one of those cases where we notify the Congress and then it has like 30 business days to offer an opinion. If it doesn't offer an opinion, then it goes into force,' State Department spokesman P. J. Crowley told reporters Thursday.

'We'll get you an answer in terms of the procedure. We'll get that answer,' he said when asked if the Barack Obama administration had sent the agreement announced March 29 for Congressional approval.

The passage of a nuclear liability law by India is not going to be as easy...

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 24 Apr 2010 06:46

IMO the Arizona bill is to force change the Democrat agenda of taking on Immigration reform after Financial reform. Democrats are trying to milk the anti-wallstreet public sentiments and pass some ineffectual *reform*. After gaining "victory" over the badest of the bad wallstreet con men, they will use the public sympathy to push for immigration reform, which will ultimately benefit Democrats and get them 2nd term.

Repub(e)s are in a fix. With this step, they will try to prolong the financial reform, start a debate on CIR first before the financial reform, severely diluting the democrat advantage.

IMO this is US internal demostic situation BUT the immigration reform has some implication for India. Besides ensuring some stable cash flows well into the future, it will ensure some future DIE to stay out of country permanantly

Regarding the Arizona step, will it be possible to file a class action lawsuit against the state of Arizona when we have sufficient people (citizens) being pulled aside and whose liberties have been curtailed? Those few initial ones may be the lucky ones who may get heavy compensation.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 24 Apr 2010 06:52

SriKumar wrote:[

... What is the procedure if a desi-looking guy says he's a US citizen and therefore need not carry a passport? Should they believe him?

If you are a green card holder you need to have it with you at all times. If you are a citizen, a drivers license will do fine. If the cops who stop you ( a citizen) in Arizona or elsewhere and demand a passport/BC as proof of citizenship and charge you if you don't provide it, you're in luck—your ACLU backed lawsuit will make you rich and famous.

Even if they don't charge you, and are discriminated on the basis of 'ethnicity' , you will prevail. Better odds than in OZ.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 24 Apr 2010 07:36

Let me say, being the well wisher

of US, I wish to see this kind of Arizona type bills to be passed by few other states in US. The whole edifice of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness will meet the reality and thereby voiding some foreign policy tools that it uses to beat all others.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 24 Apr 2010 08:04

There are plenty of other governing entities that have passed bills, some banning illegals, fining those that use them, etc. Most, if not all, are against the constitution, because ONLY the US Congress has that authority. Since the USC is not using its authority to regulate, such governing bodies are forcing the issue.

Let us see what happens.

Nandu · Post by **Nandu** » 24 Apr 2010 08:24

I don't think the AZ law will stand a constitutional challenge.

It is a tougher version of CAs famous prop 187 that got passed (about 15 years ago) and then was struck down by the courts. Legal immigrants and other "foreign looking" people had the same concerns of harassment then, and I was opposed to the prop 187 at the time, along with them. However, the problem of illegal immigration has only become worse since then, and I have changed my mind. The fears of harassment are a little overblown. The law will not stand, and while it might force Congress to pass some token immigration reform act, which combines amnesty with promise of tougher enforcement, the executive branch will never have the will to actually toughen enforcement. (If they had the will, existing laws are more than enough). The mess will remain.

P.S. Local government officials might be objecting because the bill allows citizens to sue any local government that does not fully co-operate in enforcing this law.
P.P.S. I am not an U.S. citizen, just in case you think that is coloring my views.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 24 Apr 2010 10:00

Richard Gere is a good man by any standard. I wish some of us would use our head before making derogatory comments towards good people. He is one of the few people in the west who is true believer in Dharma. This alone qualifies him as a friend. He has done a lot for opressed people of Tibet, more than most of us on this forum.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Apr 2010 10:23

Karan Dixit wrote:Richard Gere is a good man by any standard. I wish some of us would use our head before making derogatory comments towards good people. He is one of the few people in the west who is true believer in Dharma. This alone qualifies him as a friend. He has done a lot for opressed people of Tibet, more than most of us on this forum.

What is true believer in Dharma crap? Please, he is the kind of guy who jet sets around the world in private jets, sleeps with best chics around in 5-star hotels, and then talks about Buddhism. Give me a break. Nothing wrong with all what he does, its just that one cannot take his so called Buddhist faith seriously; there is nothing self-less about him. Also, I can't recall the exact details, but I do recall his condescenidng attitude towards Indians. Bottom line: He may be a harmless guy, he may in fact be a nice guy, but he is no Buddhist except for intellectual masturbation.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 24 Apr 2010 10:26

Amber G. wrote: (BTW - starting only a year or so ago - when the law started requiring passport or an official ID while travelling to Canada. In the past we (or most people in US) did not carry US passport or birth certificate not only in US but even while travelling to Canada. In fact apart from people asking if we were us citizen, at the crossing, I don't ever remember showing any kind of ID at the US/Canada border for 100's or crossing over many years - even when we had non us citizens in our car they will just ask to see passport or green card from only those who said they are not US citizen)..

Before Jan 2008 IIRC, they used to let in people who declared verbally they were Americans, sometimes even a blockbuster membership card/library card was used as proof of identity. GWB changed all that.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Apr 2010 10:30

shiv wrote:
Will probably start a new thread on a related topic in the niqab forum.

Boss, have you started a new thread?

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 24 Apr 2010 10:50

CRamS wrote:
Karan Dixit wrote:Richard Gere is a good man by any standard. I wish some of us would use our head before making derogatory comments towards good people. He is one of the few people in the west who is true believer in Dharma. This alone qualifies him as a friend. He has done a lot for opressed people of Tibet, more than most of us on this forum.
What is true believer in Dharma crap? Please, he is the kind of guy who jet sets around the world in private jets, sleeps with best chics around in 5-star hotels, and then talks about Buddhism. Give me a break. Nothing wrong with all what he does, its just that one cannot take his so called Buddhist faith seriously; there is nothing self-less about him. Also, I can't recall the exact details, but I do recall his condescenidng attitude towards Indians. Bottom line: He may be a harmless guy, he may in fact be a nice guy, but he is no Buddhist except for intellectual masturbation.

You are wrong on several counts.

1. It is not a good idea to create a divide between various dharmic faiths such as Boudh, Hindu, etc. Dharma needs to present a united front.
2. To the best of my knowledge, Richard Gere is not sleeping around with random chicks. He leads a respectable married life. As an actor, sometimes he plays roles that are not very flatering from a Buddhist point of view. But that is not who he is.
3. Richard Gere is not a lama. Therefore you cannot expect him to act like a lama. He is regular Joe from the Buddhist perspective.
4. I have never heard him say anything condescending about India or any other country.

I have seen people on this forum calling names to Sashi Tharoor, Man Mohan Singh and so on. Now, we have added Richard Gere to that list. The list is getting longer and longer. The point I am trying to make is it is one thing to call names to people like Musharraf and it is entirely another thing to call names to good people like Richard Gere. He is brave man and a man of principles. In this age and time when people are tripping over each other to please China, he stood up to Chinese. That alone speaks volume about his character.

A man has to learn on his own that some things are better left unsaid. No one can teach him that.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Apr 2010 11:08

Karan Dixit:

My friend, what is this nonsense about standing up to Chinese? Even I stand up to Pakis. Thank you very much. But that has not prevented my brothers and sisters from being slaughtered by TSPA/ISI/LET. Richard Gere and US talking about Tibet makes me throw up my liver. The entire US economy lives and thrives on Chinese slave labour, and you tell me Richard gere stands up to Chinese. Give me a f%$%^&^in break. What sacrrifice has US made, or Richard Gere, the essence of Buddhism, in standing up to the Chincoms? It is you who needs to use your head, I am sorry to say that.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 24 Apr 2010 11:27

CramS,

You are wrong again on several counts.

1. He has stood up to the Chinese by continuing to make the case for Tibet on every platform available to him. He has campaigned for Tibetans relentlessly on reputable platforms and I am not talking about bulletin boards. He has done that against Chinese threats and paid price for that. His movies are banned in China. He is banned from Oscar for making the case for Tibetans during Oscar ceremony. The list is long.
2. You are implying that Richard Gere and US Government are the same thing. Well, they are not the same thing.
3. Richard Gere has no say in US Government’s decision-making process. He is a private citizen.

Essence of Dharma (Boudh) is to do one’s best to cross the journey peacefully without calling others names on the bulletin boards. And, he seems to be doing that just fine.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Apr 2010 12:05

Karan Dixit:

Man, you are being too emotional. What price has Richarde gere paid in "standing up to Chineese"?

Its not just Richard Gere, but I am sick and tired of the rich and elite pompously talk about spiritualism. Tell me what sacrifice has Richard gere paid? I once met Rhea Pillai at Sri Sri Ravishankar's ashram in B'lore. \I was struck by her infatuation with Sri Sri. Only later, learning about her lifestyle did I realize how skin deep her faith in art of living is. Ditto all these pompouse western Buddhist following idiots like Richard Gere.

There may be others who can point out more precisely, but the ass-hole Richard gere either refused or was mocking some award that some Indians Americans idiots were trying to desparately bestow on him.

I have no time for pompous morons like him. But I grant you this much. I don't want to single him alone.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 Apr 2010 12:26

"Pak might give N-weapons to surrogate Taliban to attack India..."
Good.So what does the Almighty US of A do?

Gifts 8 Perry class (Upgraded) frigates to Pak,for the equiv. cost of just one IN frigate,more Orions,etc. so that the Taliban's navy can be opposed!

Prevents confessed guilty conspirator of 26/11 Headley/GIlani from being deported to India,"talks" still going on about legal issues (Nobel prize for obfuscation) whether Headley can be merely interviewed by India,whereas,suspects caught in Af-Pak immediately deported to secret US concentration camps like Gitmo!

The list of US perfidy can go on and on.Right now, the US arms industry believe it or not,wants India to "scrap" the MMRCA contest and enter into a foreign sales agreement with it,where India will have to mortgage its backside and frontside to obtain the bird of our choice! The sheer audacity of the "demand" shows that the MMS govt. has abdicated all decisions of national importance to the US.No CIA agent could do better.

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 24 Apr 2010 13:05

CRamS wrote:Karan Dixit:

Man, you are being too emotional. What price has Richarde gere paid in "standing up to Chineese"?

I already answered that question.

I want to stress following points:

1. Just because someone is a celebrity that does not mean he is not serious about his faith.
2. You seem to fail to understan that the backbone of Boudh Dharma is madhaya marg, which means it is meaningless to make your body suffer in quest for moccha.
3. Mr. Gere is an ordinary human being. He is not a reincarnation of Buddha. So, expecting perfection from him is not realistic. However, he does lead a repectable life.
4. Every time I have heard him say anything about India, it has always been good. He has called Indians the most vluable friend of Tibet. He has referred to Indians as people of character and strength. What more can one ask for?

Further more, you are wrong in calling him an idiot. Idiots do not earn 30 million dollars per movie, in most cases that is.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Apr 2010 13:18

Solicitor-General going to U.S. on Headley trail

Mr. Subramaniam's trip, likely to continue till Monday, comes within a fortnight of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's visit to the U.S. and days after Ambassador Timothy J. Roemer gave the assurance that the U.S. was working at the “highest level” to provide India access to Headley, an American citizen of Pakistani origin, who has been in custody since October last when he was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Mr. Subramaniam is likely to explore all avenues open to India for getting access to Headley, who entered into a plea agreement with U.S. authorities, pleading guilty on all 12 counts. Under the May 18 plea bargain, Headley, under the Chapter “Cooperation,” has agreed that when directed by the U.S. Attorney's office, he will “fully and truthfully participate in any debriefings for the purpose of gathering intelligence or national security information.” He also agreed to “testify in any foreign judicial proceedings held in the U.S. by way of deposition, videoconferencing or letters rogatory.”

The Solicitor-General's discussions are also likely to examine the plea agreement in the light of the provision of the Extradition Treaty between India and the U.S. His discussions will also focus on understanding the provisions of the U.S. legal system, its implications vis-a vis India's demand and the mode of access to Headley.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 24 Apr 2010 17:40

pandyan wrote:This is even more hilarious...
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/04/22/ari ... ss_WSJBlog

Arizona House to Obama: No Birth Certificate, No Ballot
...

The Arizona House approved a bill Wednesday that would require presidential candidates to show his or her birth certificate in order to be on the state’s ballot.

In other words, if President Obama wants to appear on the Arizona ballot in 2012, he just might have to produce his birth certificate. Click here for the story from Fox News; here for a squib from New York magazine.

...
Clearly Jan Brewer and her team of intellectuals don't have anything else useful to do. This was something even the conservative talk show hosts were totally against.

Meanwhile, legal battle has started with Phoenix Mayor as whole bunch of other groups are planning to file lawsuits to stop the law from being enforced.

A comment from that article which rings so true and is sad:

What is sad and scary is how certain Conservative and Republican politicians like to pander to the bottom of the barrel intellectual trash. I think it shows exactly who the Republican voter base is - white trash lost in time and space.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 24 Apr 2010 19:45

There is a tendency on the forum to turn friends into foes, reflected above in the exchange between Dixit and CRamS.

By almost any measure of judgement, Gere is a friend of India. But let's say he's not. By that benchmark, who is? Clearly India is not friendless in the world. It gets a lot of good publicity, along with a lot of bad publicity. But we know that we have detractors. So why turn the few friends we have into foes? What has Gere done to harm India, or for that matter anyone else? He has spent considerable amounts of his own money to keep the Tibetan cause on the front pages of the media, and is a pretty active activist.

By no means is he an "asshole", certainly not towards India. But, like Karan said, we have called pretty much everyone from the PM down various names....

Consider before you post, people. It is not right to do this. It is not the Indian way, at least with virtually nothing in the way of evidence to prove the point.

CRamS - please tread lightly.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Apr 2010 20:04

hopefully other states along the frontier will follow the shining lead of arizona - texas , utah, new mehico, florida...hope the
tea party gets involved as well.

the US has enjoyed relative social stability for around 3 decades now after the 70s depression and the 60s civil rights
movement.

we will see how much the generosity and fellow feeling lasts when times get harder.

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 24 Apr 2010 20:20

Importance of Maritime Co-operation with India and Geo strategy finds place in the 2010 United State’s Quadrennial Defense Review

“The distribution of global political, economic and military power is shifting and becoming more diffuse. The rise of China, the world's most populous country, and India, the world's largest democracy, will continue to reshape the international system," US Defense Secretary Robert Gates said while releasing the 128 page USQDR 2010.

USQDR talks extensively about the ongoing US militarily operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, from India’s perspective

it reaches out to India as the Centre Stage of the 21st century in the Indian Ocean. The US’s grand strategy needs India in the Indian Ocean as much as it needed the United Kingdom in the 20th century in the Atlantic Ocean. This is clearly buttressed in the QDR 2010. Further, in the US grand strategy of “Balancing of Power” India is the vital cog to contain China in the Indian Ocean and so further in the greater Asia Pacific region.

As per the report, India will play the most influential role in global affairs as its economic power, cultural reach and political influence increases. "This growing influence, combined with democratic values it shares with the United States, an open political system, and a commitment to global stability, will present many opportunities for cooperation," the 2010 USQDR said.

the present Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates is being retained from the former Bush administration. Obama is the only US President besides another Democratic one, Bill Clinton to have the Secretary of Defense from the opposite party since World War II. This emphasizes that the US’ overall strategic approach has not changed drastically from the earlier Bush administration as some skeptics in India view. Robert Gates was appointed as the Secretary of Defense by George W Bush after the exit of Rumsfeld. Gates is considered to have a “realist” political outlook unlike the conservative Rumsfeld.

Indian political establishment needs to grabs the present moment. The first step in the right direction will be to enhance more naval to naval co-operation. The 2010 Malabar series of exercises is scheduled from April 23 to May 2. The USQDR emphasizes the importance of India’s Maritime stretch in the years to come especially from the Persian Gulf to the Strait of Hormuz. India will do itself great help if it could establish a tri-service command in the Arabian Sea just like the present one in the Andaman and Nicobar. This will help India to project its might in the Horn of Africa and in those East African states where the need arises.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 24 Apr 2010 20:25

Singhaji, as usual you say it best. As this debate rages on, think what Sunnis, Shias and Ahmediyas

of US are going to do and how it impacts the cannon fodder equation in armed forces.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 24 Apr 2010 21:07

Singha wrote:hopefully other states along the frontier will follow the shining lead of arizona - texas , utah, new mehico, florida...hope the
tea party gets involved as well.

the US has enjoyed relative social stability for around 3 decades now after the 70s depression and the 60s civil rights
movement.

we will see how much the generosity and fellow feeling lasts when times get harder.

This is small but good post. Every desi ( US citizens, GCs and temps) need to ponder over. There is a tendency among Indians that the rough side will not touch me and why should I bother and especially the ones who came to massa during 70s and 80s think that the greatness of US is never in question and it will not happen. The DIEs will never even try to believe that even for a superpower there will be a phase of sunset. If the economic pressures become serious and longterm, the attitudes will change. The underlying psyche of the society is brutally violent. It is the wealth that is keeping it shaanth. They would definitely want all immigrants to go when push comes to shove. We are growing in a illusionary luxury and our children will be knowing only this world and they are the ones who will never know what is adjustment and hardships which most of our gen know.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 24 Apr 2010 21:14

Errr we'd need birth certificates for doing something with the government like getting a drivers license or something. Nobody asks for birth certificate on the roads do they?

Karan Dixit · Post by **Karan Dixit** » 24 Apr 2010 21:59

Here is an interesting perspective on racism in Arizona:

http://twitpic.com/1i33xt

Nair · Post by **Nair** » 24 Apr 2010 22:09

prad wrote:in the Southwest, in the border region of CA, AZ, NM, and Texas, there is a fairly large spanish speaking presence. but the more inwards you travel into US, even Mexican immigrants are well versed in English. as i've said above, inter-racial marriages are an important tool that the US might implement as a policy tool. integrating the Mexican population into the mainstream and mixing the races doesn't allow for a single racial identity to take force. this might actually emerge in liberal bastions of CA.

The more inwards you go the more the no of Hispanics reduce...so they are more integrated. Where ever they are in force,they completely dominate.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 24 Apr 2010 22:45

JE Menon/Karan Dixit,

My last post on Gere. I take back and apologize for my harsh language against him. But I can't take his spirituality nor his friendship with India serioulsy. But he certainly has done no harm, and I agree it doesn't make any sense to antagonize somebody who is ostensibly India's friend, that too someone like him who has a huge following in US. My allusion to him started with general western infatuation with Buddhism. Finally, I do remember him making some kind of a condescending remark against Indians once, but it may have been insignificant. And moreover, he may have been irritated, and righfully so, with many a Indians' tendency to fawn over westerners who give some attention to India.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 24 Apr 2010 23:00

Singha wrote:hopefully other states along the frontier will follow the shining lead of arizona - texas , utah, new mehico, florida...hope the tea party gets involved as well
....
we will see how much the generosity and fellow feeling lasts when times get harder.

Interesting use of the word "hopefully" here but yes no one knows the future so 'we will see' but to be fair, to me at least, it is not unique to states in US ..this sounds like, SSriodhar's post in TSP thread from the
nuggets
where Jang's Nazir Naji is waiting/hoping for " that out of 28 provinces or states in India fully 20 states were subject to popular type uprisings."

No offence meant .. just some thoughts that it is also possible (IMO most likely) that the no other state will follow ...In Arizona's itself, it will face court challenges and never come to implementation. Time will tell.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 24 Apr 2010 23:22

^ Otherwise, who will do those housekeeping chores in Scottsdale, while housewives play poker?

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 24 Apr 2010 23:25

prad wrote:...as i've said above, inter-racial marriages are an important tool that the US might implement as a policy tool....

Very interesting use of language. It almost feels like I am reading a sentence from a report by a GoI babu. It feels odd on several levels. Nothing of this sort will (or should) happen.

Folks who are OK/neutral with this law, if you are visiting your friend in Pheonix, plan to pack your passport (desi or US)/visa papers/employment letter/Advance parole/I-551 stamp and everything else you normally carry when you exit the US. Unless tourists visiting Arizona are explicitly exempt from this law (and I dont think they are, since the aim of the law is to identify people who dont belong there), all of us visiting that state, for any reason, will need it.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 24 Apr 2010 23:32

SriKumar wrote:
prad wrote:...as i've said above, inter-racial marriages are an important tool that the US might implement as a policy tool....
Very interesting use of language. It almost feels like I am reading a sentence from a report by a GoI babu. It feels odd on several levels. Nothing of this sort will (or should) happen.

Folks who are OK/neutral with this law, if you are visiting your friend in Pheonix, plan to pack your passport (desi or US)/visa papers/employment letter/Advance parole/I-551 stamp and everything else you normally carry when you exit the US. Unless tourists visiting Arizona are explicitly exempt from this law (and I dont think they are, since the aim of the law is to identify people who dont belong there), all of us visiting that state, for any reason, will need it.

While checking ID and papers is all fine with moi (since I am there temporarily

) but $500/6 months jail sounds too steep for not possessing it. Do I have to lug so much documentation to the neighbourhood grocery store on the sidewalk?

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 24 Apr 2010 23:35

Muppalla wrote: This is small but good post. Every desi ( US citizens, GCs and temps) need to ponder over. There is a tendency among Indians that the rough side will not touch me and why should I bother

A few un-related points: Desis have benefited tremendously from the civil rights struggles by blacks in the 60s. Desis owe a debt to these people. I'll also say that it is unfair to characterize an entire society as being this or that. Some of the systems/protections are in place are there because the majority support it. Finally, this law will affect more hispanics than desis. I'm sure they are already planning to fight this law.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 24 Apr 2010 23:41

prad wrote:^^^ i think i was misunderstood. i'm not advocating for forced marriages. that is a violation of individual freedom at a whole different level. but there are other more subtle ways in which Govt can slowly encourage citizens towards inter-racial unions.

From everything I've seen, there are atleast a few reasons why the US Govt. will not consider such a thing for even a femto-second. Also, in my humble opinion, it should not.