Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan - Apr 22 2015

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 15 May 2015 18:44

wow...so OBL killed by joint paki-US operation next to a paki military base just 100 km from isloo...what do na-pakis thunk we are smoking?

gandharva · Post by **gandharva** » 15 May 2015 18:51

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 15 May 2015 19:03

gakakkad wrote:wow...so OBL killed by joint paki-US operation next to a paki military base just 100 km from isloo...what do na-pakis thunk we are smoking?

Before the world alleges that Pakistan was involved in a conspiracy, they should realize Pakistan itself victim of several conspiracies. In fact, Pakistan is the world's No 1 victim of conspiracies.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 15 May 2015 19:27

prahaar wrote:
A_Gupta wrote:^^^ That picture above is: "A file photo of bomb planted in a toy. PHOTO: MUHAMMAD IQBAL/EXPRESS"
http://tribune.com.pk/story/886839/two- ... explosion/
This makes the target of the bomb very clear. So much for killing one innocent is equivalent to killing all humans.

Bhayee, that quote is meant only for the children of Israel, nothing to do with followers of the true religion!

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 15 May 2015 20:00

Murugan wrote:
The shias are untrustworthy lot. Till late 70s many shias went to Pakistan. For Every India-Pak cricket match shias will cheer for Pakisatan, even today. According to many shias, the bombs released by IAF on Karachi were caught by Fakirs in their jolas to protect Mozlems from Kafirs' outrage.

There something in Qur'an that converts a convert to a degree that he/she forgets all the past, live up for all the mozlems in the world - inimical or not inimical to their existence.

The bohras, might have converted from Brahmins but are the most polished bigot types and cannot be trusted for any reason.

After the Mumbai taj attack, shias took out processions in Mumbai and distributed leaflets in which they indirectly justified the attack citing Bhagat Singh and calling him a terrorist.

Never trust any of these highly codified bunch of confused fundamentalist bigots - whatever is their firka (denomination). there is no soft-liner who reads or believes in the coded book.

+1^
What is troubling is the we have multitudes of Indian thinking like this. India is what it is today because of the Hindu majority. Any attempt to change that dynamic should be stopped. Keep them out.

-M

member_29040 · Post by **member_29040** » 15 May 2015 20:47

Pakistani be it Shia or Sunni are both like snakes. They will bite you whenever they get chance. So, We should not portray any one of them as victim.
They fought and they got that godforsaken land called Porkistan. They are free to divide it among themselves as many times as they wish. But no entry in India nor an Inch of India.

P.S. No offence meant to snakes.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 15 May 2015 21:12

Dubbing all sunnis and shias across the globe as snakes, IMO is painting with a very wide brush. Surely we have problem with Pakistan and to that extent we can label them as whatever, but beyond that it is counterproductive. It makes us look like the bigots we are trying to disparage in the first place. The Ismaili shia community in India is by and large a peaceful community, let's not club them all together.

Unnecessary use of vitriol creates a wrong impression among the broader audience of the forum, we can make some exceptions and certainly in case of Pakis, but in general we should keep the language more palliative, that is my opinion.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 15 May 2015 21:21

Dipanker wrote:Dubbing all sunnis and shias across the globe as snakes, IMO is painting with a very wide brush. Surely we have problem with Pakistan and to that extent we can label them as whatever, but beyond that it is counterproductive. It makes us look like the bigots we are trying to disparage in the first place. The Ismaili shia community in India is by and large a peaceful community, let's not club them all together.

Unnecessary use of vitriol creates a wrong impression among the broader audience of the forum, we can make some exceptions and certainly in case of Pakis, but in general we should keep the language more palliative, that is my opinion.

The accurate statement is that Pakistani Shias and Sunnis have demonstrated time and again, that collectively, they are snakes. BTW, we have secular-minded Mussalmans, e.g., in UP, who stayed on in India, while even within the same family, the Muslim League supporter brothers and uncles moved to Pakistan. The benefit of the doubt does not apply to Pakistanis, by default they are two-nation theory supporters, even when they are "peaceful". BTW, a peaceful two-nation theory supporter is also a snake.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 15 May 2015 21:26

Anyone who follows the principles that led to the violation of the treaty of Hudaybiya cannot be trusted.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 15 May 2015 21:48

A_Gupta wrote:
Dipanker wrote:Dubbing all sunnis and shias across the globe as snakes, IMO is painting with a very wide brush. Surely we have problem with Pakistan and to that extent we can label them as whatever, but beyond that it is counterproductive. It makes us look like the bigots we are trying to disparage in the first place. The Ismaili shia community in India is by and large a peaceful community, let's not club them all together.

Unnecessary use of vitriol creates a wrong impression among the broader audience of the forum, we can make some exceptions and certainly in case of Pakis, but in general we should keep the language more palliative, that is my opinion.
The accurate statement is that Pakistani Shias and Sunnis have demonstrated time and again, that collectively, they are snakes. BTW, we have secular-minded Mussalmans, e.g., in UP, who stayed on in India, while even within the same family, the Muslim League supporter brothers and uncles moved to Pakistan. The benefit of the doubt does not apply to Pakistanis, by default they are two-nation theory supporters, even when they are "peaceful". BTW, a peaceful two-nation theory supporter is also a snake.

That was my point. We can not be painting with a wide brush all the time. We make some exceptions and Pakis certainly belong to that category.

arun · Post by **arun** » 15 May 2015 22:15

C Christine Fair, “America's Pakistan Policy Is Sheer Madness” :

Fearing that Pakistan is too dangerous to fail, pusillanimous members of Congress, as well as officials in the White House and the Departments of State and Defense, are wary of moving away from the status quo and the uncertain future that may ensue. One thing is certain: their failure to act now will ensure more terrorism and more death in the future. And they will have only themselves to blame.

From here:

National Interest Online

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 15 May 2015 22:57

RoyG wrote:So how is it we will be turning up the heat?

just because the letters are written by modi sarkar they are suppose to put pressure.
Had UPA written these letters they would be called cowards.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 16 May 2015 00:04

Murugan wrote:Terrormonitor.org @Terror_Monitor · 2h 2 hours ago
#Pakistan - 2 Children(2 Brothers - 4 & 9-Year-Old) Killed A Toy Bomb Exploded In #Ghotki District

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFCZf2cUEAA7ZdP.jpg:large

Those 3 rectangle black boxes with wires connecting to each other looks like a flash/strobe lights that go on a DSLR camera hotshoe. Also the light window is taped up. Bottom connector looks like a speedlight connector that mount on a camera hotshoe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_Spee ... _Flash.JPG

One speedlight can trigger multiple other speedlights, the newer ones do it with RF.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 May 2015 01:26

Hoodbhoy:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1182200/more-lethal-than-raw

OUR generals say India’s spy agency RAW is up to its nasty tricks again. No evidence provided but, okay, we’ll buy the story for now. There are two good reasons. First, it’s safer not to question the wisdom of generals. Second, they speak from deep experience, having long played the spy-versus-spy game across borders. So let’s provisionally assume that India’s spies have engineered the odd bomb blast here and there, and send occasional gifts to the BLF or other militant Baloch movements.

But RAW’s alleged antics are pinpricks compared to the massive and irreversible brain damage that Pakistan’s schools, colleges, and universities inflict upon their students. Imagine that some devilish enemy has perfected a super weapon that destroys reasoning power and makes a population stupid. One measure, though not the only one, of judging the lethality of this hypothetical weapon would be lower math scores.

No such scores are actually available, but for over 40 years my colleagues and I have helplessly watched student math abilities shrivel. Only the wealthy customers of elite private schools and universities, tethered as they are to standards of the external world, have escaped wholesale dumbing down. As for the ordinary 99pc, with the rare exception of super-bright students here or there, some form of mental polio is turning most into math duffers.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 May 2015 01:29

sukhish wrote:
RoyG wrote:So how is it we will be turning up the heat?
just because the letters are written by modi sarkar they are suppose to put pressure.
Had UPA written these letters they would be called cowards.

Both cowards and heroes breathe, and breathe the same air. What distinguishes them?

Answer: their records.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 16 May 2015 01:59

Pakistanis:
If they can't kill Kafirs, they'll kill munafiqs

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 16 May 2015 03:29

also now a days india is writing lots of letters to the UN to get hold of bad guys(since pakistani courts have set them free). so definitely the record
of writing letters is going up for modi sarkar. also why send the foreign secretary to their country , we could
have simply written a letter explaining our position ?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 May 2015 05:06

NaMo in China:

ON PAKISTAN

India and China face terrorism for which the source is in the same region (in apparent reference to Pakistan).
We must also deal with the changing character of terrorism that has made it less predictable and more diffuse. We source a large part of our energy from the same region that faces instability and uncertain future.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 May 2015 05:36

Najam Sethi on how the truth might lie somewhere between the official US account and Seymour Hersh's account of the killing of OBL:

One explanation can be offered that combines elements of the three versions – Pakistani, American and Hersh’s – into a highly plausible scenario. The night raid was expected to be a very high-risk affair if the Pakistanis were not in the loop. It risked becoming Obama’s “botch-up” on the eve of his re-election just as the Iran hostage rescue crisis became for President Jimmy Carter in 1979-80. Perhaps, therefore, the Americans actually took Generals Kayani/Pasha into confidence to the extent of telling them the fib that they had located a “very high value target” (maybe Ayman al Zawahiri but definitely not OBL) somewhere in the mountains in the north of Pakistan and were going to dispatch an extract-and-kill Seal team from Afghanistan to nail him and requested their cooperation in not disrupting the operation. This would explain the relative ease with which the US raid was conducted. It would also explain why the Pakistanis gave their permission because they thought it would be a failed mission since they knew that there was no high value target like OBL in the target area. It would, finally, explain their rage and frustration when the low-flying helicopters veered off course at the last minute and went to Abbotabad instead of further north.

The two sides had connived with and lied to each other, but one had double-crossed the other successfully, so their secret would remain buried between them.
- See more at: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/the-i ... CNkg3.dpuf

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 May 2015 06:48

A_Gupta wrote:
Dipanker wrote:Dubbing all sunnis and shias across the globe as snakes, IMO is painting with a very wide brush. Surely we have problem with Pakistan and to that extent we can label them as whatever, but beyond that it is counterproductive. It makes us look like the bigots we are trying to disparage in the first place. The Ismaili shia community in India is by and large a peaceful community, let's not club them all together.

Unnecessary use of vitriol creates a wrong impression among the broader audience of the forum, we can make some exceptions and certainly in case of Pakis, but in general we should keep the language more palliative, that is my opinion.
The accurate statement is that Pakistani Shias and Sunnis have demonstrated time and again, that collectively, they are snakes. BTW, we have secular-minded Mussalmans, e.g., in UP, who stayed on in India, while even within the same family, the Muslim League supporter brothers and uncles moved to Pakistan. The benefit of the doubt does not apply to Pakistanis, by default they are two-nation theory supporters, even when they are "peaceful". BTW, a peaceful two-nation theory supporter is also a snake.

Here is a job for Indian secularists - a job that they have not done and will not get done as time passes. The job is to record oral stories of individuals and families in UP who moved to Pakistan and the reason why they moved. Did they already have family in Karachi or someplace else? Or were they simply taking a chance. The latter seems unlikely.

Get hold of Indian Muslims who have family in Pakistan and record their narrative - what prompted people to get up and go (apart from the nonsensical greatness of unified Islam blah blah). It was wealthy and influential people who left (at least from UP and Bihar)- people with family property in India - leaving some behind. Perhaps they hoped to have a base across two countries.

Dipankar's statement that on a forum like this - calling all Muslims "snakes" is undesirable needs to be held against the fact that a lot of Indians have got exactly that impression after the people who went to Pakistan (and some in Kashmir) simply eliminated Hindus, Sikhs and Christians. If Islam was the reason for rallying together in Pakistan, what was the reason for discriminating against Hindus and Sikhs. Unlikely to have been influenza or diabetes. It was Islam again.

So why did these "Indians" who migrated to Pakistan, leaving family in India do that? I am sure a lot of interesting stuff will come out if the secular-vaadis people undertook this quest. Why should secular vaaadis do this and not anyone else? Simple onlee. Anyone else will be dubbed as communal, seeking to tear up the fabric of the nation by trying to dig up the truth. We are afraid of the truth.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 16 May 2015 06:50

shiv saar,

THis is a conjecture (since i have no data): The secooolarists may find the results disturbing enough to not be printed

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 May 2015 07:12

LokeshC wrote:shiv saar,

THis is a conjecture (since i have no data): The secooolarists may find the results disturbing enough to not be printed

Precisely. There was real hatred in the creation of Pakistan.

It is entirely another subject to go into the roots of that hatred. While antagonism has always existed between people seen as invaders and locals a sort of uneasy relationship existed with one or the other gaining power - with Hindus and Sikhs having been on the ascendant when the British came. The British managed to leverage the antagonism - but ultimately we had two nations, one with a Hindu majority that constantly harped on coexistence and secularism. The other was an unabashed Muslim nation that sought to eliminate all non Muslims.

For anyone who decides to think for a few milliseconds, it should be obvious that one can be secular because one genuinely feels that way, or else secularism has to be forced down one's throat by law. Try and force secularism down the throats of shitistanis? They howl that it is anti-Islam. Across all varieties of Muslims, sunni, shia or whatever there is no consensus that non Muslims can be left alone and allowed to survive untouched.

Let me ask a rhetorical question. Can Islam exist without Muslims? What would Islam be if there were no Muslims at all? You can take a population of 1 million newborn babies and claim that they are all born Muslim. But if you do not expose those babies to the Quran or other Muslims then none of them will turn out to be Muslim. This is how kafirs are created after all. So Islam per se cannot exist with Quran, Muslims and a pre existing mode of behaviour that is taught. Islam simply teaches that non Muslims are wrong. It leaves open the question of how non Muslims are to be treated and does not actively oppose their being mistreated. Now if you create a nation based on Islam and that nation mistreats non Muslims we have to accept that as Islamic behaviour. We have to accept that the mistreatment of non Muslims is islamic behaviour. Accepting mistreatment of non Muslims and saying that "Secularism means accepting and agreeing to mistreatment as long as it is part of their religion" is the line that has been pushed on Indians in the Congress variety of secularism. No. That is wrong. If mistreatment of non Muslims is normal for a nation of Muslims we cannot accept that.

Rishi · Post by **Rishi** » 16 May 2015 07:24

Heh. Pak has a nice satire site:

https://khabaristantimes.com/

https://khabaristantimes.com/world/raw- ... o-do-with/

menon s · Post by **menon s** » 16 May 2015 08:07

ISLAM, MADRASSAHS ,QURAN AND THE ART OF CREATING NUMB SKULLS.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1182200/more-lethal-than-raw

for over 40 years my colleagues and I have helplessly watched student math abilities shrivel. Only the wealthy customers of elite private schools and universities, tethered as they are to standards of the external world, have escaped wholesale dumbing down. As for the ordinary 99pc, with the rare exception of super-bright students here or there, some form of mental polio is turning most into math duffers.

Giving logic a back seat has led to more than diminished math or science skills. The ordinary Pakistani person’s ability to reason out problems of daily life has also diminished. There is an increased national susceptibility to conspiracy theories, decreased ability to tell friend from foe, and more frequent resort to violence rather than argumentation. The quality of Pakistan’s television channels reflects today’s quality of thought.
For too long education reform advocates have been barking up the wrong tree. A bigger education budget, better pay for teachers, more schools and universities, or changing instructional languages will not improve learning outcomes. As long as teachers and students remain shackled to the madressah mindset, they will remain mentally stunted. The real challenge lies in figuring out how to set their minds free.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 16 May 2015 10:33

Why General Durrani’s Comments Must Anger You

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 16 May 2015 10:50

All the Ismailis of Krachi attack were mohajirs - from only one place in Gujarat - the ancient capital - Siddhapur. They migrated in 1947. They liked the idea of Pakisatan

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 289559.cms

So they were migrating to pakisatan as late as 2000 AD

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 16 May 2015 13:12

Setting aside the sentimental rona-dhona about the mass murder of Ismailis, what might be the reason Ismailis were targeted at this time?

Here is one paki musing about the reasons:
Why the killing of innocents?

Whatever the sectarian outfit that cannot be named goes around doing, the killing of members of the Ismaili community makes no sense. The Ismailis are a small minority, they are entirely peaceful and have no communal political aspirations, and as such they pose no threat to anybody. The question then is why this sudden targeting of the Ismailis? The killing of Shias has been going on for decades so it seems a bit hard to believe that the sectarian killers suddenly realised the Ismailis are also Shias. It could be, as I have mentioned above, that the killers are confused between the Yemeni Zaidis and the Ismailis, and therefore went after the wrong group for the wrong reason. Or perhaps killing ordinary Shias is no longer as newsworthy as it used to be. Clearly, sectarian killers need to keep killing to maintain their expertise in such matters and killing regular Shias is becoming counterproductive since the Shia organisations are now retaliating. Whatever the reason behind this attack, the murderers responsible for these 40 plus deaths are unlikely to be apprehended. In the past, the killers of Shias and other minorities have rarely been caught even though everybody knows who these people are.

Essesntially he ends up saying nothing useful. Can gurus on this forum take a crack at a credible explanation?

From my limited knowledge, I am speculating that the momins got orders from soothi arapia to attack some shias because shia conspiracy made bakistan a disobedient little boy. And the Momins picked the Ismailis simply because they were easy targets (even though they are apparently not quite the right kind of shias, being different from both hoothis and the Iranians), no need to sort them from the greener ones.

Does this killing serve any purpose or change anything? It is hard to see how it would, it is probably just one of those things the Muslim warrior playbook calls for: you've gotta kill some weaker sections of your enemies and sometimes of your friends, otherwise word might get around that you may be getting soft, and then where would you be?

But, if we grant soothies a degree of intelligence, over and above blind predatory savage instincts which they are abundantly blessed with by Allah, then the killing gets more interesting. Ismailis pray to the Aga Khan, who is basically a hedonistic European white guy known for his wealth and ability to buy countries, and not so much for doing his own fighting. Much like the soothies. Also, the Aga Khan is a major economic bulwark for the RAPEs, has been from the beginning. So, hitting his people could be a way to take him hostage in a manner of speaking--he becomes perforce the spokesman and advocate for soothie interests with the RAPEs. After the disastrous yemen adventure, Soothies now stand exposed before the world as the rich softies they are, and that's scary for them. They desperately need pakis as janissaries, no excuses allowed.

But both good and bad sharifs have already gone to soothie after the parliament vote and pledged their allegiance, so where is the need to murder (arguably) innocent Ismaili bus commuters? Is it not avoidable violence?

That question represents Hindu thinking, and an inability to recognize and accept the true nature of the Islamic military strategist, who assumes all commitments to be insincere (because his own always are) and always needs that extra leverage to see to it that the commitment is followed through.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 May 2015 16:59

KLNMurthy wrote: That question represents Hindu thinking, and an inability to recognize and accept the true nature of the Islamic military strategist, who assumes all commitments to be insincere (because his own always are) and always needs that extra leverage to see to it that the commitment is followed through.

I personally do not see a Saudi hand in this. That is crediting them with too much "strategeric eggspertise". Just a few days ago there was this Paki article saying that peace is returning to Pakistan with a decrease in terrorism as a result of operation Azb-cum-Zub. Unrelated news has stated that there are over a million internally displaced people in Shitland. If hideouts of TTP in Wazitistan are busted, they will simply move into Pakistan proper. So we have now seen two incidents a helo shot down(PoK) and this massacre (Karachi).

It's not about shias or sunnis. Those students who were killed in aschool were killed simply to fulfil the Islamic idea of war - so eloquently written about by that bearded jihadi jernail (was it Javid nasir?)- saying that terrorization is a valid technique of Islamic warfighting. Killing of someone simply shows what they are up against.

But both sides don't have the degree of civilization to stop because they become kafirs if they do. Some families will be bumped off by the Paki army in revenge for this and hopefully the cycle will continue. There has to be a lot more bloodshed in Pakistan before they understand the value of peace. The religion simply does not cut it in this dept.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 16 May 2015 17:26

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 May 2015 17:35

shiv wrote:If Islam was the reason for rallying together in Pakistan, what was the reason for discriminating against Hindus and Sikhs. Unlikely to have been influenza or diabetes. It was Islam again.

So why did these "Indians" who migrated to Pakistan, leaving family in India do that? I am sure a lot of interesting stuff will come out if the secular-vaadis people undertook this quest. Why should secular vaaadis do this and not anyone else? Simple onlee. Anyone else will be dubbed as communal, seeking to tear up the fabric of the nation by trying to dig up the truth. We are afraid of the truth.

Same kind of reason that (say) one Musalmaan is happily a mid-level manager in a US corporation in Chicago, but his son runs away to Iraq to fight alongside ISIS. In terms of observed phenomena, not a mystery, we should be used to it, there are many like it in kind. In terms of explanation from root causes, it is more difficult. There is nothing to be afraid of; I think the mahaa-secularite B.R. Ambedkar described some of the psychology in his book "Pakistan".

Some suggestion of the mood of the times, written from a Pakistani point-of-view
http://muslimleague.uchicago.edu/Naim_KeynoteML.pdf

PS: There is some echo of this even in just the treatment of Aatish Taseer by his father Salman Taseer and Taseer's Pakistani children.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 16 May 2015 17:43

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 16 May 2015 17:53

shiv wrote: Let me ask a rhetorical question. Can Islam exist without Muslims? What would Islam be if there were no Muslims at all?

This is an interesting question. If the 'theory' of Islam consists of the Koran, Hadith, Sunnah, then we can say that Muslims are those who put that theory into practice. But if we look at it the other way, Islam is the theory that explains why Muslims behave the way they do. This is where Islam and Muslims are inextricably linked. I believe that Islam and Muslims evolved together, and not in the way that Islamic history describes ( Mohammed, like Jesus was probably a fictional character ), but rather as part of an Arabic unification under one God ( which would probably have taken longer than what Islamic history says ).

Islam, like other 'religions' and societies is basically a model for social interaction, and this influences how Muslims think. I read somewhere that Muslims do not have the concept of right and wrong. Instead they understand 'halaal' ( permitted ) and 'haram' ( forbidden ). For example, marrying a 9 yo girl or stoning gays is 'halaal' , whereas keeping a pet dog or eating pork is 'haram' . If at all any Muslim has a concept of right and wrong apart from the framework of halaal and haram, this means that they have been 'led astray' and corrupted by outside influences, and are therefore, not Muslims at all..

Islam would not exist without Muslims, except maybe in museums. Like the small pox virus.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 May 2015 18:10

FYI, why we need to be readers of Urdu:

OMJ’s claims can be best described as ‘wishful history.’ Or, to use a line from Faiz: ‘It wasn’t so; I had only wished it were so.’ Unfortunately, that habit seems to have become very common among sub-continental Muslims, particularly those who feel secure in the knowledge that no better-informed non-Muslim would read them and then raise uncomfortable questions.

http://cmnaim.com/2013/09/a-matter-of-history/

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 16 May 2015 22:57

A_Gupta wrote:
shiv wrote:If Islam was the reason for rallying together in Pakistan, what was the reason for discriminating against Hindus and Sikhs. Unlikely to have been influenza or diabetes. It was Islam again.

So why did these "Indians" who migrated to Pakistan, leaving family in India do that? I am sure a lot of interesting stuff will come out if the secular-vaadis people undertook this quest. Why should secular vaaadis do this and not anyone else? Simple onlee. Anyone else will be dubbed as communal, seeking to tear up the fabric of the nation by trying to dig up the truth. We are afraid of the truth.
Same kind of reason that (say) one Musalmaan is happily a mid-level manager in a US corporation in Chicago, but his son runs away to Iraq to fight alongside ISIS. In terms of observed phenomena, not a mystery, we should be used to it, there are many like it in kind. In terms of explanation from root causes, it is more difficult. There is nothing to be afraid of; I think the mahaa-secularite B.R. Ambedkar described some of the psychology in his book "Pakistan".

Some suggestion of the mood of the times, written from a Pakistani point-of-view
http://muslimleague.uchicago.edu/Naim_KeynoteML.pdf

PS: There is some echo of this even in just the treatment of Aatish Taseer by his father Salman Taseer and Taseer's Pakistani children.

Thanks for the CM Naim link. He is a good resource for anyone who wants to get a serious insight into the RAPE / proto-paki mindset. He has an academician's outlook and is always fun to read.

Recommended author for anyone who is serious about destroying pakistan and subduing Indian Muslims once and for all.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 17 May 2015 01:25

Are these causally linked events? Oppression of Ismailis in Najran, Houthi rebellion and attack on Najran, attack on Ismailis in Pakistan?
http://m.hrw.org/en/node/75197/section/7
http://www.yementimes.com/en/1875/news/ ... ajran”.htm
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32717321

RCase · Post by **RCase** » 17 May 2015 02:19

shiv wrote: Let me ask a rhetorical question. Can Islam exist without Muslims? What would Islam be if there were no Muslims at all?

Then it claim the mantle of being the religion of peace, i mean RIP!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 May 2015 06:30

A_Gupta wrote: . . . one Musalmaan is happily a mid-level manager in a US corporation in Chicago, but his son runs away to Iraq to fight alongside ISIS . .

There are many examples that we are aware of. Omar Saeed Sheikh, a London-bred graduate of the London School of Economics, Imran Kathwari, the American-bred son of Farooq Kathwari, the CEO of furniture giant Ethan Allen, or Sikander Azam, the son of the Deputy Director in the Ministry of Science & Technology in Pakistan or the two sons of former ISI chief Lt. Gen. Hamid Gul. A study conducted by the US West Point Army academy on Counter terrorism concluded that a nephew of a Director of Pakistan’s Atomic Energy Agency and also the son of a top PML politician were LeT terrorists. Or, David Coleman Headley and his associate Tahawur Rana. The list goes on . .

But, if we scrutinize their families closely, then things become clearer. Their whole family is involved in Islamism and jihadism. They have stood solidly behind their sons (& daughters)

In a deposition before the Karachi magistrate in July 2002, Omar Saeed Sheikh's very rich father denied everything that we know is true about his son, including his visit to Bosnia, activities in India, involvement in the Daniel Pearl murder etc. Father denies Omar’s terrorist background. This lends credence to the family support for the terrorist son.

For example, Farooq Kathwari's brother Rafiq, a journalist and photographer, (who was also employed at Ethan Allen) wrote a piece glorifying Irfan's death entitled; "My Nephew the Jihad Fighter" and a poem honoring him as well. Farooq Kathwari and his family continue to be high profile promoters of the 'Kashmiri separatist cause'. Kathwari has also started 'The Irfan Kathwari Foundation' to commemorate his son's martydom and death as Jihad fighter. He also lied claiming that his son died in Afghanistan whereas, in fact, he was killed fighting the 'evil Hindus' in Kashmir. One blogger blamed Farooq Kathwari for his son's decision to leave America and wage Jihad:

"...Farouq Kathwari Pres. of Danbury based Ethan Allan Corp. also did something equally stupid in filling his son's head usual Islamic nonsense. As a result he too took leave from Harvard Medical School to go fight in Kashmir. He did not know any Urdu or anything else about the conflict except that it was a fight between good and evil. Good meaning of course Islam and Hindu were no doubt the evil."

We don't need to elaborate on what kind of family atmosphere would have existed in Hamid Gul's family. In an interview to the Saudi Asarq-al-Awsat, Hamid Gul had the following to say about his sons: "Jalalludin Haqqani is a personal friend of mine. When I sent my two sons to Afghanistan to wage jihad against the Soviet forces they fought alongside Jalalludin Haqqani's men. He is a very, very good man."

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 May 2015 06:59

Sridhar,

Bloomberg quotes Farooq Kathwari as saying that his Mohammadden Terrorist son was exterminated in Afghanistan rather than in Jammu and Kashmir as suggested(?) by the excepts posted above.

The words attributed to Farooq Kathwari by Bloomberg are "My son is lying in rubble in Afghanistan".

At Ethan Allen, Selling Furniture and Tolerance

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 17 May 2015 07:04

SS - if we go back and look at the Pew poll analysis from a few years ago - where approx 80% of the people (in Pakistan & Egypt) claimed that they be happy to murder apostates, blasphemists (legally)- we realize that there are countries with large populations, where common people are essentially extremist. That is, large portions of their population have significant common thinking with ISIS, Taliban.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 17 May 2015 12:49

arun wrote:Sridhar,

Bloomberg quotes Farooq Kathwari as saying that his Mohammadden Terrorist son was exterminated in Afghanistan rather than in Jammu and Kashmir as suggested(?) by the excepts posted above.

The words attributed to Farooq Kathwari by Bloomberg are "My son is lying in rubble in Afghanistan".

At Ethan Allen, Selling Furniture and Tolerance

arun, I know that, but he is lying. Lying for a good Islamist cause, lying in the Way of Allah. He probably feels that jihad in Afghanistan is more acceptable socially in American circles.

Here is what happened: On an excursion in Kashmir his group saw an Indian military truck and decided to engage it by opening fire. The Indian soldiers returned fire and a shell fragment from a grenade severed an artery causing him to bleed to death. His comrades left his body on the scene for the Indian soldiers to find, where upon they found documents revealing his identity. American Embassy was informed which arranged his body to be send back to Connecticut. At his funeral services a Jewish boy who was a childhood friend got up and shouted at his parents that "my friend lies in that box today because YOU filled his head with hatred" No other words were spoken afterwards..