India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Kati · Post by **Kati** » 12 Jan 2014 11:23

Irrelevant and speculative post about DK's husband deleted. - rohitvats.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 12 Jan 2014 11:36

matrimc wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:we have a saying that the pumpkin thief touched his shoulder when they asked about the pumpkin
In Telugu
GummaDi kAyala donga anTE bhujAlu taDumukunnATTu

In Kannada it is Kumbala Kayi kalla hegalu mutkonda

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 12 Jan 2014 11:40

UndieTV news flash

Sources: Indian diplomats in US worried US could act against them.

India should prepare a list of US diplomats, who have committed or are committing some offense according to Indian laws, that it'll act against in an escalatory fashion if any such thing happens.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 12 Jan 2014 11:48

^^
Now the Diplomatic immunity is at the same levels more US diplomats are exposed than Indian diplomats in US. At least till elections such a dramatic step will invite an equally dramatic response here in India. So I wouldn't worry on that count. The thing to do is to sort out the mess if any within this available time till elections.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 12 Jan 2014 11:50

Allowing privileges and immunity over and above that required by the Vienna convention(s) without reciprocal benefits is where the Indian exposed themselves to such unilateral actions.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 12 Jan 2014 11:51

They can start with the self declared smuggling charges against Alicia

More can be done and if you act we will also act can be a policy. I think the best way now is to withdraw all diplomat helpers and keep "bat men" for them officially. You can keep these "bat men" also to watch over our diplomatic staff effectively.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 12 Jan 2014 11:55

^^
Alicia is gone case already and will be withdrawn soon. They will wait just enough to make it look like a normal transfer. In any case she has full immunity and will not be touched. Start working on the consulate staff pronto and keep the necessary file ready for immediate action.

We need to have an exploitation angle just to even the moral outrage dramabazi so frequently pulled off by the US SD/Press. Perhaps slavery or sexual exploitation.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 12 Jan 2014 12:06

A simple thing to offset costs is to insist that all local consular and embassy help and officials are to be payed salary equal to the home country or India whichever is higher.At least ourlocal workers will get a bounty and increase their costs ! If our Visa costs go up - raise a ruckus !!

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 12 Jan 2014 12:16

^^^
This has to be a point. The spokesperson always says that US diplomats make sure that they always honor their host country's labor laws. But nobody asks what about their own laws? Can they violate their own minimum wage and anti-discrimination laws at their embassies and consulates?

They have to meet both laws, not just host country laws, to keep international moral high ground.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 12 Jan 2014 12:18

@roperia ^^^^^^^

First a great big Dhanyavaad and Namaskara to Anmolji.

How do we know this is not a plant? To try and shake us or bait us?

We should continue to prepare for a worst case scenario.

One: should be that we limit American Embassy/Consular staff = = to Indian staff in the USA.

Second: If, as has been proven, that the Americans have not ratified the Vienna Convention on Consular Rules, we should say, that even though we have ratified this as a civilised nation, it applies only to those countries on the basis of reciprocity. As will all other facilities.

Third: We should interrogate Alicia May on her self confessed trading in jewellery as a matter of right and not as a matter of revenge for DK. Making it clear to the Americans that this action is being taken in view of this disclosure and the timing has no relevance on the DK episode.

Fourth: We should inform the US Ambassador that such slurs, as have been voiced by Alicia May, are in no way conducive to mutual relations and are a example of the rather crass and uncivilised behaviour of their staff and the poor quality of representation of the United States itself, falling outside the norms of diplomatic behaviour, and undeserving of diplomatic immunity. And it would be expected that all such staff are replaced unilaterally with immediate effect. Unless, of course, the US wants us to view this negatively and an indication of their "strategic relationship" being considered as only lips service for us to open our markets to assist the US recover from its unending economic crisis.

Fifth: That we will continue to contest the wrongful arrest, which included in our opinion, a state sponsored molestation of a representative of the Republic of India, and seek apologies and compensation and a reversal of Grand Jury's indictment, where the defense had no representation..

Sixth: We could then ask for the Richards family's return, in case, we had already filed any justifiable action against them, leading to the Americans having subverted our justice system.

Seventh: That all Indian staff be paid in consonance with American staff of similar experience and above the minimum wages specified in the US, with monthly records being submitted to GOI. Whether they work in the embassy/consulates or as domestic help.

And there can be many more!

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jan 2014 12:24

pankajs wrote:^^
Alicia is gone case already and will be withdrawn soon.

Again I dunno. As TSJ posted GoTuS prefers that workers not go 'native'. There may not be much of any response.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 12 Jan 2014 12:25

Nandu wrote:Why aren't the FB posts with the dog on the tumblr site? Need a site with all the FB posts collected together so we can sent it appropriate people.

I tweeted about it & posted several times on Firstpost. Others are picking up on it too. I also see some sock-puppetry attempts by Americans & (possibly) State Department deleting the incriminating Facebook posts

Spread the word. This needs to get the attention of the mainstream media

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 12 Jan 2014 12:37

A slanging march with US is not in our interest-we are the weaker power and we have far better things to do.

1)We need to crush the US fifth columnists in India.In my home state of TN,the Hindu religion has been taken apart-every bit of it-varna,jaati,language,skin colour,gods-rama,shiva,murugan,mariamman,the language of worship.Why should christianity be spared-its origin as a roman imperial cult-carefully masked but whose deceptions have been blown apart,its part in slavery,genocide,imperialism,massacres of non white people,the role of British in promoting indian christians,bequeathing property to indian christian institutions,their role as foreign viruses in promoting discord,seccessionism as in NE,kudankulam,in brainwashing Hindu youngsters with sense of guilt about hinduism,while whitewashing christian crimes,bigotry.The role of christian NGOs should be put under scrutiny.We need to hit the soft underbelly.Why should we target US diplomats?Let us crush mercilessly their foot soldiers among indian christians,indian muslims and maoist groups.The US can do very little without their foot soldiers.Recently CIA appointed some Raheel as Twitter head in India or the google advertisements about 'bhaichara'.

2)If the chrch is crushed,it would be much easier to handle the hindoo self haters of St Stephens,Xaviers,Loyola as the source of venom would dry up.We can use church property,institutions exclusively for dalit development.
3)We should have a transactional relationship with US in high tech areas and in investment for building infrastructure etc.

Let us not forget that US is a christian nation with a veneer of liberalism.We can combat their christian racism only by being a dharmic nation true to our highest ideals.Diplomacy etc is just a side story.

member_28352 · Post by **member_28352** » 12 Jan 2014 12:44

It appears that the EJ's have completely subverted Massa's diplomatic service. Given that the best and brightest are not appearing for the entrance exams of this service it is likely that only EJ's are looking to enter this service what with their 10/40 window goals. Also if the husband of DK is dubious and not really a tenure track professor after age 40 it is conceivable that he may be a CIA agent who was planted upon her in Europe. I believe the USG desperately tried to prevent DK from coming back to India for reasons that are not quite clear. Witness the news articles of India deliberately obfuscating when DK would leave. Bringing back her children may have led to an international parental kidnapping complaint if as it is surmised that husband is a CIA agent and he complained on the matter.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 12 Jan 2014 12:45

Prem Kumar wrote:
Nandu wrote:Why aren't the FB posts with the dog on the tumblr site? Need a site with all the FB posts collected together so we can sent it appropriate people.
I tweeted about it & posted several times on Firstpost. Others are picking up on it too. I also see some sock-puppetry attempts by Americans & (possibly) State Department deleting the incriminating Facebook posts

Spread the word. This needs to get the attention of the mainstream media

Currently the name Alicia Muller May and Wayne are not even searchable on FB. The BR Monitoring person/team did a good job expunging her presence !! Unfortunately the cat still got out of the bag ! It is indeed nioce to see how they are systematically trying to remove her internet presence but then it is already too late.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 12 Jan 2014 13:05

Theo_Fidel wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
Alicia is gone case already and will be withdrawn soon.
Again I dunno. As TSJ posted GoTuS prefers that workers not go 'native'. There may not be much of any response.

I meant that given the negative publicity of her role in the whole saga she would be less effective in her role as 'Community Liaison Officer'.

US would want to make her withdrawal look like normal transfer and not under pressure from negative publicity so perhaps a little delay is in order but will happen.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 12 Jan 2014 13:11

An fb search for Alicia Muller May now doesn't have her name. So I went to the web and to fb from there.
fb now says:

Alicia's Timeline

To see posts on Alicia's timeline,
send them a friend request.

Just proving their guilt!

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 12 Jan 2014 14:20

rajanb wrote:An fb search for Alicia Muller May now doesn't have her name. So I went to the web and to fb from there.
fb now says:

Alicia's Timeline

To see posts on Alicia's timeline,
send them a friend request.

Just proving their guilt!

Madhusudhan wrote:The tumblr site is awesome - I wish there were two versions though : One with the editorializing for some audiences, and one with just the raw information for other audiences.. I would like to share this widely but I think it will be better without the editorializing for some of my circles.

I have posted everything in this tumblr(all pics and backup of their profiles) with no editorializing:

http://duckduckduckdoge.tumblr.com/

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 12 Jan 2014 15:12

anmol wrote:
rajanb wrote:An fb search for Alicia Muller May now doesn't have her name. So I went to the web and to fb from there.
fb now says:

Alicia's Timeline

To see posts on Alicia's timeline,
send them a friend request.

Just proving their guilt!

Madhusudhan wrote:The tumblr site is awesome - I wish there were two versions though : One with the editorializing for some audiences, and one with just the raw information for other audiences.. I would like to share this widely but I think it will be better without the editorializing for some of my circles.

I have posted everything in this tumblr(all pics and backup of their profiles) with no editorializing:

http://duckduckduckdoge.tumblr.com/

gardener in the pic looks rather young, wonder if he is above or below the child labor age limit for India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Jan 2014 17:58

is it confirmed this couple were the employers of SR's mother as cook? that photo of the gardener indicates a very huge property.....not GK type digs for lower level staff but more jor bagh/aurangzeb road style.

added later - firstpost confirms it.
http://www.firstpost.com/world/expelled ... 35445.html

While American diplomat Wayne May, chief of the US embassy's diplomatic security contingent in Delhi who left India on Saturday after India expelled him in a tit-for-tat action, had reportedly employed the parents-in-law of Sangeeta Richard, the domestic help at the centre of the visa fraud case against Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade.

....
A report in The Indian Express also said May's wife Alicia Muller May, also employed at the US Embassy as a Community Liaison Officer, had reportedly used her privileges to buy tax-exempted air tickets for Philip and the children who left on trafficking visas. Only diplomats and their families are usually eligible for the tax exemption. "However, New Delhi subsequently decided that reciprocal action should be taken against a diplomat of the same rank as Khobragade, resulting in the notice to the US to withdraw Wayne, who is a consular level officer," said the report.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 12 Jan 2014 18:23

Theo_Fidel wrote:
pankajs wrote:^^
Alicia is gone case already and will be withdrawn soon.
Again I dunno. As TSJ posted GoTuS prefers that workers not go 'native'. There may not be much of any response.

Alicia's job was to make friends with India. I don't think she can do that anymore. She is gone as soon as it can be done practically.

Sen_K · Post by **Sen_K** » 12 Jan 2014 18:25

Really amazed to see Ajai Shukla on ndtv bootlicking the us on the issue.

India, US headed for deep diplomatic freeze

vina · Post by **vina** » 12 Jan 2014 18:47

Sen_K wrote:Really amazed to see Ajai Shukla on ndtv bootlicking the us on the issue.

India, US headed for deep diplomatic freeze

Oh, he got snubbed by G Parthasarathi who told him that he hasn't served in high enough levels in Govt to comment sensibly on this and that rather than rant and rave, he should leave it to people who know what they are doing . GP of course served as the ambassador to the US earlier.

Madhusudhan · Post by **Madhusudhan** » 12 Jan 2014 18:58

I have posted everything in this tumblr(all pics and backup of their profiles) with no editorializing:

http://duckduckduckdoge.tumblr.com/

Thanks a lot Anmol. I plan to write to all my law makers about this stressing on how such incompetence in the State Department will create significant long terms challenges for US interests with the rise of China, and resurgence of Al Queda in Afghanistan, and so on. I will point them to this site.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 12 Jan 2014 19:03

The FB posts need media exposure

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 12 Jan 2014 19:07

For those overcome with schadenfreude at the fate of DK at the beginning of the episode citing various justifications like lack of punctuality , waiting times , curtness ,"corruption", imperiousness,lack of a smile and a litany of other whines with respect to Indian consular or diplomatic officials dealings with PIOs and NRIs in their Massa postings...

This Alicia May character representing Massa babudom should serve a good lesson or two.

Maybe DK or other IFS scholar babus ( most in their mundane jobs may regularly scoff at the ignorance of the aam in the private) but when it comes to the wire they do deliver the goods just as any other patriotic Indian - regularly see this in gelf with respect to their firefighting for the interests of Indian blue collored workers (be it an evacuation due to Libya or Syria war or those regular changes of "rules of play" by Saudi Barbaria type sheikhdoms without prior warning) .
Whoever may be the babu atleast you won't be compared to their Pet dogs in private or getting scoffed at your thin frame or stunted height or stubby nose or "smelly" or ugly black disposition or Rapist vegetarian tendencies . While the Alicia Mays of the Massaland babudom( or Perfidious Albion or any other oiropean osieules) would greet you with their well practiced disarming smile only to simultaneously lookdown at you as a subhuman at the back of their minds.

Therefore this pack of mutually +1 ing White Pakis (comparing their turd world gardener with their dog breeds ala Paco) and the original Pakis (refer:Paki diplomat's family - JN Dixit , boy runs through calling Hindu kutta! Hindu kutta!) are such good bed mates. Both have their common TFTA theories on SDREs and both are racist to the core against us. So just get your work done to your satisfaction with the Massa babudom, and above that don't fancy notions of any real empathy for the curry Ni**gers whatever maybe your standing.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 12 Jan 2014 19:30

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/nyreg ... ?src=rechp

These casino workers were earning $5 an hour plus tips. In the casino's buffet restaurant. (Imagine that, the bountiful tips in a buffet restaurant!). In New York City (Queens), where the minimum wage is $9.75 per hour. After one year of dispute, the case went to arbitration, and the labor arbitrator raised wages to $12 per hour. The casino did agree to the raise - and then fired the workers a few months later.

For the record, none of the (Malaysian) owners of the casino were ever arrested or strip-searched.

sunnyP · Post by **sunnyP** » 12 Jan 2014 19:35

Gerard wrote:The FB posts need media exposure

+1

Those with twitter - please tweet/share with all the media wallas.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Jan 2014 19:39

It just makes blood boil, that with all its moral pontifications which mean nothing byond the surface of the skin, US has destroyed a family. As I mentioned, this is a personal tragedy for DK

http://news.yahoo.com/indian-diplomat-t ... 33759.html

Lot of people speculated on her husband. Curiously, she refers to her daughters, but I didn't sense too much of a feeling towards her husband.

Here is my take on her future: She is not going to be able to live without her daughters, and who can? She will probably quit IFS, plead guilty to some kind of a misdemeanor, and get back to US to be with her family. Of course, the wild card is this husband of hers. I would cut her some slack were she to do this. After all, she is a young woman with 2 kids. She is human after all.

India drove home the message to the best of its ability. From this morning's papers, I do sense that Indians have had enough of this and want to kiss and make up with super power US

.

vic · Post by **vic** » 12 Jan 2014 19:55

It is possible that "May" is CIA. I don't think any diplomat will give a sh*t about a simple domestic servant dispute. He decided that he is powerful enough to teach Devyani a lesson by getting her raped. This seems to be a operation planned between May Couple alongwith somebody like Urza Shamim Zeya to show "who is daddy" to IFS. "May" controls a staff almost of 500 security staff and liason's with Delhi Police.

Look at the actions of Delhi Police, they first refused to register FIR. Then after Court directed FIR, they refused to investigate or make arrests. Third they even refused to issue "look out" notices or seize passports of SK Family members. Delhi Police has 4 levels of failures inspite of Court orders and calls of Devynai father. My guess is that "May" used favors to fix some very high IPS level officers of Delhi Police. Not to forget inspite of withdrawal of immunity to US Counsels cars, Delhi Traffic Police did not take action and a specific letter had to written to them by GoI to take action, then they have taken action only for one day.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 20:01

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 71892.aspx

Next morning, on January 9, the embassy informed the state department that it won’t waive Khobragade’s newly acquired immunity. At the same time, the diplomat was given her second transfer order in recent weeks, this time calling her home.

The delay in giving accreditation by USD despite UN approving it and forwarding documents to USD promptly is one pointer that USD was the driving force behind the whole thing, setting the pace and mode for resolution. It may be that some underhand deal has been cut by MMS and congis.

However I would be more interested to know the status of DK due to her accreditation to UN Mission as Advisor which purportedly granted diplomatic immunity which was valid on the date of arrest. The search of USD database by Mark Moron Smith , DSS idiot, who is sworn to @#$$, did not indicate the current accreditation status of DK is mysterious. Whether USD deliberately fudged database to delete the name of DK despite her having immunity and give wrong report via protocol division. India must pursue this lead and ensure that correct immunity status as on date of arrest or chargesheeting is reflected.

I agree with Dk that They lost a good friend ( many good friends except turncoats who will be floacking in full force sooner to protect their cosy turf) and gained one Maid and a drunken driver.

Those , who think India is dependent on USof A , and can not do without it should be reminded that US has put India under technology sanctions regime for very long time and it still continue in many areas. For them Economy is the driving force and relationship is transactional and not strategic as some may want it to be. And it is because of US. They see India as huge market either for consumer goods, energy ( we have plenty of nuke oil salesmen here itself promoting westinghouse GE) and defense besides many others. So we should keep it at that level and plug all loopholes for these type of NGOs here.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 12 Jan 2014 20:07

I admire the BJP's approach towards national security: Hardeep Singh Puri

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 766_1.html
In an interview with Akshat Kaushal, he speaks on why he made a career change.

What was the inspiration behind joining the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)?

There are only two national parties. If there is disillusionment on the national security front with one of them, and the other party has a very clear position on national security, then the question itself stands answered. I have been an admirer of the BJP and its approach to national security, which is anchored more deeply in a sense of nationalism. For me, the issue was not whether I would join the BJP or some other party, but when I would join it.

It seems you are suggesting that the Congress is less nationalistic than the BJP.

I did not say that. The Congress is a party with a great history, but currently the party and the political leadership have been separated. The prime minister often says he is not the public face of the Congress. But the policy responses have been less than successful.

Critics will accuse you of being an opportunist. You want to associate with the BJP because it is seen as more likely to win the elections. You could have waited until after the elections to join the party...

People are entitled to their views. I have had a long association with people in the political spectrum. I wanted to give it a little time after I retired. I should have joined it (the BJP) in 2013 because by then I would have completed one year of retirement. I have waited because I wanted to ensure I have spent enough time after leaving active service.

Perhaps you were one of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's aides while you were in the foreign service. But, it seems, you were never comfortable working with his policies. Which aspect of his foreign policy do you disagree with?

I was certainly one of the senior-most officers in the foreign service, but to describe me as an aide would not be correct. The PM has only one adviser, which is National Security Advisor Shiv Shankar Menon. To that extent, the PM has done himself a disservice by keeping such a narrow base. I do not believe that other avenues of advice which were available to the PM were fully exhausted - both at the political and civil service level.

One of the prime requirements in running an effective foreign policy machine is that you must allow the professionals, who work on the issues on the day-to-day basis, to be heard and consulted. It is entirely incomprehensible that the joint secretary dealing with Pakistan is excluded from bilateral summit level talks. It is well known that in the last six or seven years, the foreign office has not been encouraged to make its contribution. This has found very bold expression in the running of our policies in relations to Pakistan and China. His entirely peculiar desire to make the pyramid stand on its head and have the discussion at the PM-level, when you have the possibility of discussion at the JS level, I think, is playing to a certain audience.

So, do we have a demoralised ministry of external affairs (MEA)?

It will be unfair for me to categorise the ministry of external affairs in those terms. I find it extremely painful to say these things against the political establishment of the day. But they have to be said in order for correctives to be introduced. The MEA has a capable head of service. She is known to be courageous and outspoken, and will resolve all the issues.

What was wrong with the government's handling of the Devyani Khobragade case?

If you don't draw red lines and you don't address them in case of transgression then you convey to the other side that it can get away with almost anything. This is precisely what has happened in this case. There have been serious issues, serious provocations, of prescribed consular courtesies immunities and privileges being violated by the American side. There are issues of reciprocity involved here. When two of India's senior-most ambassadors were frisked at US airports, there was no attempt to introduce reciprocal action against the American envoy in India. I was asked to pat my turban, but I refused. They detained me for a short while, but then came and apologised. A former president of India got frisked at a US airport. But, more serious than this the daughter of a Indian consular official was locked up for 24 hours in New York for something that turned up to be a trumped-up charge. The Indian government should have asked the Americans about their interpretation of the Vienna Convention. If they were interpreting the Convention in a completely different way, that is, in terms of limited immunity then we should have discussed that issue with them.

But how could the government have handled this case differently?

For four years you tolerated American transgressions. If you would have questioned them earlier, then the Khobragade case would have never taken place. The Khobragade case is, at best, an issue that involves a dispute between an employer and an employee. The government of India has demonstrated that the employer was paying the wages which were required. The government, having not discussed with the Americans, found that Americans were unlikely to apologise and we got ourselves in this situation. I do believe the handling of the case after it took place is fine, but we should have not allowed matters to come to this pass.

You don't agree that Khobragade was not paying the minimum wages according to the US laws?

She interpreted the law to mean the salary of the employer. My own sense is Devyani's basic pay and all allowances put together barely make $4,000. Her contract with the maid says she has to pay $1,600 a month, which she was paying. So, where is the violation?

How will this episode affect Indo-US relations?

There are some consequences that will not go away. The ban on Americans running commercial facilities in diplomatic premises is unlikely to be lifted. But this is a wake-up call. Too many people in our system like to call it a strategic relationship, where everything was going on well. Those who were dealing with Indo-US relationship, like former Indian Ambassador to the US, Nirupama Rao, need to have a reality check. The rest of us were saying there was a policy paralysis, substantial issues were not moving, but the other side was projecting a rosy picture.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 12 Jan 2014 20:15

CRamS wrote:It just makes blood boil, that with all its moral pontifications which mean nothing byond the surface of the skin, US has destroyed a family. As I mentioned, this is a personal tragedy for DK

http://news.yahoo.com/indian-diplomat-t ... 33759.html

Lot of people speculated on her husband. Curiously, she refers to her daughters, but I didn't sense too much of a feeling towards her husband.

Here is my take on her future: She is not going to be able to live without her daughters, and who can? She will probably quit IFS, plead guilty to some kind of a misdemeanor, and get back to US to be with her family. Of course, the wild card is this husband of hers. I would cut her some slack were she to do this. After all, she is a young woman with 2 kids. She is human after all.

India drove home the message to the best of its ability. From this morning's papers, I do sense that Indians have had enough of this and want to kiss and make up with super power US .

This is indeed very sad. I highly doubt she can cut a deal on her own. key to making a deal is ability to pay mega bucks...

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 20:21

vic wrote:It is possible that "May" is CIA.

Despite what many believe , such operation can not be mounted by mere US pandu, sworn to uphold sh!t, and that too without sanction from topmost level in USD. He is Deputy Station Chief of CIA . They do operate under various designations and Chief of Security is one such. He is not only commanding staff strength of more than 400 persons but able to liaise with all and sundry in Govt of India. He could be the one who would have inserted SR in DK household. There are no coincidences in intelligence. This case smacks of too many such coincidences. Of course IB would be knowing them including Station Chief. If India makes their name public they would be forced to withdraw hurriedly without expelling.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 12 Jan 2014 20:35

Channakya: Usually the names are witheld, but I guessed that someone is extremely pi..ed off and leaked his name. Will he be replaced and by whom. It's a big loss if someone of his experience is booted out so close to an election, and the GOI can ask for a reduction in the levels of personnel who worked with him.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 12 Jan 2014 20:37

The main outcome of this is to prep the average six pack joe and jane, along with mainstream americans to have a very negative opinion of India/Indians on the forefront. Although most americans would careless about India/Indians. There is a very deliberate attempt to drum up and manufacture this image. This perhaps was the intent.

Watch out for "Ides of March", there may be a humungous effort to promote white man's burden of "civilizing unwashed natives" to happen. This needs lot of support back home and is being manufactured.
Americans have a penchant to have an identified enemy to operate and huddle around. Well Iran is slowly sliding off the map, with N.Korea ever present in the background. But the battle this time seems to be 'civilizing missions" to complement "religious missions" that white man has to undertake.

It coincides with many interests.
1) Already the average joe six pack having a degree in basket weaving, feels that their white collar jobs are either being cornered by others or being off shored by people with useful technical degrees. Obama clearly identified India as one of the places where the competition for those jobs are coming from.
2) Fits nicely, with the civilizing mission of the church based groups.
3) Needs a break from the model minority in US for vested groups. So PB type fellow goes hammer and tongs against the minority types.

Without the support of average americans such missions are very difficult to finance and sustain. So expect more "drain inspectors" to descend with smack of 'true religion' as being panacea for all the ills of unwashed.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 12 Jan 2014 20:37

I don't understand why GoI didn't slapped Wayne May and Alicia May with human trafficking, racketeering, conspiracy to commit fraud, tax evasion, and such. I can count numerous violations that would be classified as felonies, serious enough to warrant an arrest, strip search, and a cavity search.

Better yet, when Wayne May goes through the airport scanners, the security could have said there were readings that cannot be verified by X-rays and he needs to be subject to a strip search and cavity search.

Send a clear and strong message to the US, relations be damned.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 12 Jan 2014 20:50

chaanakya wrote:
Those , who think India is dependent on USof A , and can not do without it should be reminded that US has put India under technology sanctions regime for very long time and it still continue in many areas. For them Economy is the driving force and relationship is transactional and not strategic as some may want it to be. And it is because of US. They see India as huge market either for consumer goods, energy ( we have plenty of nuke oil salesmen here itself promoting westinghouse GE) and defense besides many others. So we should keep it at that level and plug all loopholes for these type of NGOs here.

I am sure India can "survive" because after all, our people are used to living on a pittance and yet retain their dignity. But if IT wealth if a measure of progress, then sure its because of US investment. Of course, US based IT honchos do see a benefit in investing in India (not as much these days as it was during the hype phase), so its a 2-way street.

I think more than anything else, a downturn in relations means US can do significant damage to India at the strategic level. I mean US India TSP has always been a zero sum game. TSP punches above its weight because of US support. Increased US pampering of TSP will surely hurt India.

The best way to counter US mischief at the strategic level is to as you say plug the loopholes for the NGOs, traitors, and RNIs etc. For that, India needs a sense of nationalism and elect a BJP type govt, and if elected, BJP should be true to its nationalist credentials unlike what it was under those who proclaimed "US and India are natural allies" and guboed befor "My friend Strobe" etc

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 20:52

nawabs wrote:How will this episode affect Indo-US relations?

Those who were dealing with Indo-US relationship, like former Indian Ambassador to the US, Nirupama Rao, need to have a reality check.

Well She is compromised while serving as Indian Amby in US. She was more interested in post retirement placement in US then Reality Check.Well there are few such officers in MEA and elsewhere in GOI who would sell nation for their personal gains. Then there are others who have nation at their heart.Need to promote them.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2014 20:54

CRamS wrote:
chaanakya wrote:
Those , who think India is dependent on USof A , and can not do without it should be reminded that US has put India under technology sanctions regime for very long time and it still continue in many areas. For them Economy is the driving force and relationship is transactional and not strategic as some may want it to be. And it is because of US. They see India as huge market either for consumer goods, energy ( we have plenty of nuke oil salesmen here itself promoting westinghouse GE) and defense besides many others. So we should keep it at that level and plug all loopholes for these type of NGOs here.
I am sure India can "survive" because after all, our people are used to living on a pittance and yet retain their dignity. But if IT wealth if a measure of progress, then sure its because of US investment. Of course, US based IT honchos do see a benefit in investing in India (not as much these days as it was during the hype phase), so its a 2-way street.

I think more than anything else, a downturn in relations means US can do significant damage to India at the strategic level. I mean US India TSP has always been a zero sum game. TSP punches above its weight because of US support. Increased US pampering of TSP will surely hurt India.

The best way to counter US mischief at the strategic level is to as you say plug the loopholes for the NGOs, traitors, and RNIs etc. For that, India needs a sense of nationalism and elect a BJP type govt, and if elected, BJP should be true to its nationalist credentials unlike what it was under those who proclaimed "US and India are natural allies" and guboed befor "My friend Strobe" etc

Yeah , US tried its ssh!t in 1971 and see what happened. How long it will take for India to start division of Pakis against US wishes. TSP is less of the concern for us except for terror issues.

Third para , I fully agree with you.