India-US Strategic News and Discussion

[Nandu]

I am sure (from what I've read in many of his dispatches) that Chidu is a regular lurker here at BRF.

Hi Chidu! Wave.

[CRamS]

ASR seems to be literally "house husband" like "house wife". No offense meant.

I agree, but lets not trivialize the personal tragedy here. I would wager to bet that there is personal tension going on here between DK and her husband. My piskological read is that Indian MEA and DK's dad steadfastly wanted her back in India and didn't want to compromise on her's and India's H&D, while he (DK's husband) wanted her to plea bargain. Lets see what happens in future.

But one thing I hope DK understands beyond her personal tragedy, is that this is more than her. It is India's interests at stake. Indian armed forces' Jawans and officers are dying on the LoC and border protecting India. Her current travails are a small price to pay in contrast. Of course, its easy for me to say these things, not having to pay ether price.

In my score card, I may have given India an E (on a scale from A to F), but given India's pitiful leverage if any over US, I think India did its best, MMS type US munnas in India not withstanding. I hope the b@stards in US state dept and US media realize that in a world where US is hated, insulting gentle friendly India with impunity, however much racist Alicia type contempt & hatred they may have, it has its repercussions and realize that treating India with a modicum of respect is in US interests.

[Prasad]

I don't think he was wrong in keeping quiet with the case going on and officials trying to work things out. Also can we not carry aspersions on him because he was willing to travel where dk had to?

[pankajs]

Anmol saar's work has started appearing on blogs too.

Zio-Christian India-Hating CIA Agent Behind Nanny-Gate?

Now it turns out that the the Bureau of Diplomatic Security coordinator of the anti-terrorism program at the US embassy in Delhi, Wayne May (and his diplomat wife Alice Muller May) don’t much like India or Indians.

May is the guy who subverted the Indian judiciary, refused to let the police in Delhi act on Khobragade’s charge of extortion, got a T visa for the nanny, and “evacuated” her out of the country a couple of days before the diplomat was arrested, likely at his instigation.

The May’s Facebook page was taken down as soon as bloggers pounced on it, but someone saved it and uploaded it elsewhere.

..
One wonders what kind of outreach Ms. May can do when she doesn’t seem to like being in the country and doesn’t have the self-restraint not to vent her feelings about it on the internet. It’s also very telling that Ms May has no Indians in her circle on the net.

What’s more fascinating than any specific comment is the overall tone. Nothing of substance or insight. Endless chatter with an all-American cast (no Indian friends) about wine, food, trips, and various dinners. Plenty of posts about negative news reports. Frequent references to America as “the real world.”

Mind you, these folks, as diplomats, live in the better part of Delhi, are exposed to little in the way of the real travails of Indian life. But even their own air-conditioned, sheltered enclave, with its duty-free imports, liquor and special privileges, is too demanding.

..
Wayne May: https://app.box.com/s/e8ghs9b4kpbqicvsro4w

Alicia May: https://app.box.com/s/4sh98h97flxukl2n7dit

Here are some excerpts from Alicia Muller May’s Facebook page: (http://duckduckduckdoge.tumblr.com/)

[Vayutuvan]

to build the perception that she is "tainted" and deserves the treatment meted to her by the ohh soo pure at heart Unkil Massa bleeding at the "injustice" meted to the "defenceless" maid Sangeeta Richards.
Posts were made in this thread too for that matter.
...
Now just the dog post by none other than the one who precipitated this incident in Massa embassy of Dilli ( TFTA Alicia May and TFTA Wayne May) will suffice to break this perception among India's aspirational young and probably few of the Forrin "liberals" types too.

The problem (which has been ruled OT for this thread, but with some deft wording I am hoping to get around) is that leave Dr. DK aside - had they picked on somebody else in place of Dr. DK, what were the chances that even that person was also "tainted"?

The people who precipitated the incident - The May couple - are fairly low in the pecking order of DoS compared to Ms. N. D-Biswal. Not that I support their bigotry, mind you. Far from it. They are elites in India but in the US they are nobodies, especially on the economic ladder. On the other hand, the asymmetry is that Dr. DK is an elite in India but she is a nobody here. So the information one can gain from this episode is that there is not going to be much support for corrupt elite of India. Of course, it is anybody's guess who they thought is going to be the PM. They would switch gears now to make sure that seemingly non-corrupt elite are going gain over the corrupt elite the end game being puppet govt. who take orders from the US.

Another piece of the puzzle is the video interview of Dr. DK at Foreign Relations site. She was gushing that she was one of the prime movers of restating the bus service between India and Pakistan. May be the US took it as some kind of hamdardi for Pakistanis and misjudged where her loyalties lay and tried to turn her which backfired. May-haps SR played a role in this failed plan and the US had to extract her and her family out ASAP.

Sorry - at this point all I can think of is one CT after another. Otherwise why the US fscked up a good relationship and goodwill with 1.2 billion is incomprehensible.

[KLP Dubey]

Dubey ji,
Do you think GoI or IB didn't do that check before allowing DK to be posted in Massaland ?
So whose check results are we waiting now to establish his guilty unless proven innocent credentials ?

I don't think they did. As I mentioned in my previous post - this episode has exposed the haphazardness and incompetence of the government and its various arms including the foreign ministry, diplomatic corps, immigration, and police.

When there is a rule that foreign citizen spouses of India diplomats must take Indian citizenship, why was that rule flouted for 8 years in this case? Among many questions, one that arises is why was Rathore being "protected"/"exempted" from that requirement, and by whom? Your question seems totally disingenuous.

Also see here:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 45867.aspx

The "no foreign spouses" rule is being enforced in the Army. So why were DK and Rathore exempted for 8 years after the wonderful checks done by Gov and IB ?

[pankajs]

From WaPo. Rest of the article talks about mistreatment of maid India, etc so am not posting the link. Interested parties can find it on the web.

On Sunday, the Indian television news channel NDTV 24x7 reported that the Foreign Ministry now wants the government to designate the Indian maids accompanying diplomats abroad as government workers, so that they are not subject to the laws of a foreign country.

[pankajs]

Devyani’s dad shows letters of witnesses

MUMBAI: Ahead of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade's arrival in Mumbai on Monday evening, her father revealed letters of the witnesses submitted to the court in New York which clearly indicated 'good relations' between her and her maid Sangeeta Richards.

"These affidavits demonstrate the lack of any basis of the charges against you. These are redacted to protect the identity of the witnesses. Obviously the US government knows the identity of the contract witnesses. They neglected to ever contact them," said Devyani's lawyer Daniel Arshack who appeared on her be half before the New York court said in his mail sent in reply to Devyani's father.

[Lilo]

Dubey ji,
Do you think GoI or IB didn't do that check before allowing DK to be posted in Massaland ?
So whose check results are we waiting now to establish his guilty unless proven innocent credentials ?

I don't think they did. As I mentioned in my previous post - this episode has exposed the haphazardness and incompetence of the government and its various arms including the foreign ministry, diplomatic corps, immigration, and police.

When there is a rule that foreign citizen spouses of India diplomats must take Indian citizenship, why was that rule flouted for 8 years in this case? Among many questions, one that arises is why was Rathore being "protected"/"exempted" from that requirement, and by whom? Your question seems totally disingenuous.

Also see here:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 45867.aspx

The "no foreign spouses" rule is being enforced in the Army. So why were DK and Rathore exempted for 8 years after the wonderful checks done by Gov and IB ?

^Dubey ji,
First you "claim" that they(GoI agencies) have not done it as if seen through your third eye.
Then you speak about a rule the specifics of which you again seem to lack a grasp of ... like how many years a person needs to be associated/reside in India to become a naturalised citizen ?

My question , What of all the visits to nagpur area sampling and advising on popularising the nascent (yet world class) Indian wines abroad and the formal position Mr Rathore held as adviser to Govt of Maharashtra - wonder how much of residentship time it amounts to hain ji?

BTW when did Foreign Service began to get equated with "Territorial Army".

Frankly this argument has already been made in this dhaga and you allege disingenuous behaviour for me.
OK.

[Karan Dixit]

I am sure (from what I've read in many of his dispatches) that Chidu is a regular lurker here at BRF.

Hi Chidu! Wave.

Chidu should be sued by Anmol for copyright violation and altering his journalistic work without his permission. Chidu could have given the article an honest tone.

A country whose diplomats are openly enjoying the misery of poor people and making bigoted comments about Hindus are in no position to carry on the torch of humanity.

[sanjaykumar]

A country whose diplomats are openly enjoying the misery of poor people and making bigoted comments about Hindus are in no position to carry on the torch of humanity.


This is reflective of the supplicant position that Indians put themselves. The outrage on this board is that you expect others to carry the torch of humanity. These torch bearers may be from a little town in Iowa, but they need to do this for Indians.

I am sorry but all have a right to their opinion. Their only fault is the gross indiscretion of facebooking their banter.

[pankajs]

Another theory of the arrest and humiliation of our diplomat in US ..

Departed Indian Diplomat Confronted US Business Over India’s IP Policy

Just weeks before being abruptly arrested and strip-searched in New York leading to outrage in her home country, a now-departed Indian diplomat took on the powerful US business lobby over India’s controversial approach to intellectual property.

..
On 14 November, the GIPC held an event on the doorstep of the investment community in Manhattan that called into question India’s practices on IPR, suggesting that it is hurting foreign investment (IPW, Developing Country Policy, 18 November 2013).

At that event, attended by Intellectual Property Watch, Khobragade was outspoken in defence of India and engaged in debate with US industry proponents. She emphatically denied that India has violated its obligations under World Trade Organization IP rules (no country has yet brought a dispute there), said investment and research are strong in the country, distinguished that India’s courts are independent from government, and said that just because of one compulsory licence and a couple of court decisions, one cannot say the investment environment is off.

Khobragade demanded that in future, an Indian representative be given a place at the table to present their side of the story. Industry representatives and consultants, meanwhile, argued that repeated efforts to engage with the Indian government have met with little success.

A few weeks later, a US investigation turned up alleged violations in her treatment of the worker.

India retaliated against the US action on Khobragade (including removing now-restored security barriers around the US embassy in New Delhi), and on Friday the US agreed to expel a US diplomat of equal rank from New Delhi, according to reports.

The US-India Business Council, which includes the US Chamber and Indian industry groups, tracked the Khobragade story on a daily basis in its news to subscribers.

Guys this is OT but the point Dr. DK makes is vary valid. If India is in violation of the WTO obligations US and others should file a case with WTO. They do not do that because they know that Indian is in complete compliance of its obligation to WTO. Exceptions like compulsory licencing is valid under WTO.

So they want to lobby GOI and get bilaterally what they cannot get under multilateral treaty. That the GOI will not budge and that Indian courts in any case will only go by the letter of law is what gets their goat.

So whenever you face a question like India is in violation etc , ask them why US has not filed a case with WTO.

[Vayutuvan]

Our own NAM/whatever equivalent of the ICJ (International War Crimes Court)should be set up in India ,representing the rights of the aggrieved nations,and these despicable neo-Nazis should be tried if available or in absentia,so that there freedom of movement across the globe is at least curtailed,knowing that they would be arrested and deported if they travelled to those countries aprt of the group.

Philip ji, are you suggesting the resurrection of NAM - a failed movement which gave rise to dictators like Sukarno and Castro, Sadat followed by Nasser?

[Vayutuvan]

Unfortunately in India, the media is so biased towards particular political parties that establishing an "independent media" is very difficult. The media guys are biased towards political parties on domestic issues.

That's true in US too. Just last week as Fox was going hammer and tongs at VP Biden, CNN had continuous coverage of Gov. Christie and the bridge closure. Only silver lining is that they are controlled by people from within the US.

[Lilo]

Matrimc ji,
You should have responded in OT thread where you can be free to speak your mind.But as you made this contention on open thread , I'll make my refutation here in brief.
I see a leaps of logic from

DK is "elite" to
--> DK is "allegedly" Corrupt Elite (here the corruption seems to have rubbed off from elder K to daughter K through another Olympic jump of logic)
---> To finally your contention that DK belongs to the "corrupt elite" (no need of "allegedly" also now).

SanjeevKumar ji,
You are Forgetting to mention the most important fact to the "harmless" facebook banter.... that Mays are the central actors in the spiriting away op of Richards family away from the arm of Indian Law and the Papa Wayne coordinated with his diplomatic security counterparts in subjecting DK to strip and Cavity search(as instructed to USMC when Diplomatic security cretins who picked up DK at school handed her over) and then moving wheels in SD to hand it over to Justice dept of PB for indictment by a rigged "petty" Jury.
So their bleeding heart credentials are now a shown to be a total farce when their "harmless" banter comparing their emaciated gardener to their beefy pet Dog Paco was exposed to the whole wide world and yet you somehow fail to see any significance of this exposé in the perception war on this Incident between India and massa.

[Lilo]

Our own NAM/whatever equivalent of the ICJ (International War Crimes Court)should be set up in India ,representing the rights of the aggrieved nations,and these despicable neo-Nazis should be tried if available or in absentia,so that there freedom of movement across the globe is at least curtailed,knowing that they would be arrested and deported if they travelled to those countries aprt of the group.

Philip ji, are you suggesting the resurrection of NAM - a failed movement which gave rise to dictators like Sukarno and Castro, Sadat followed by Nasser?

Matrimc ji ,
What exactly gave rise to Kissingers and Nixons and Dubyas of Massaland is my innocent pooch ?

[ramana]

And teaching wine philosophy to people who have qawallis on "angoor ki beti"!!!

Looks like a PG Wodehouse type laid back character.

[A_Gupta]

....Otherwise why the US fscked up a good relationship and goodwill with 1.2 billion is incomprehensible.

One answer might be "The Ugly American", by Eugene Burdick and William Lederer, first published in 1958.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Ugly-American ... 0393318672

Authentic, infuriating, and explosively candid, this is the daring, classic bestseller that unmasked the blundering hypocrisy of some of our top-level diplomats. It exposes the opportunism, incompetence, and cynical deceit that have become imbedded in the fabric of our public relations, not only in Asia but all over the world.

The top reader review from 2003 on Amazon.com says:

The Ugly American succeeds on three major counts:

1) The book is a devastating look at the way the American diplomatic corps presents itself abroad. It may have been written decades ago, but given recent events and little evidence that anything has changed in the State Department, the lessons are still extremely applicable to this day. Every foreign service officer should read this as a manual on how to conduct themselves and adapt to foreign cultures.

2) The authors are clearly cutting into American policy without going overboard and cutting into the United States. This is no anti-American rant; Lederer and Burdick seem to write this book with one eye firmly on furthering America's ability to advance its interests and cooperate more effectively with other nations.

3) Each one of the short stories is extremely entertaining. I started this book at 10 pm one night and finished it three hours later after being totally unable to put it down. On top of its commentary, it's a quick and fascinating read.

A recent review, from August 2013 says:

This book was written over 50 years ago. So why did I just hear about it recently, and only by chance? It should be required reading in every US university, and definitely for every member (and wannabe member) of our State Department! The authors deftly prove their top-notch writing skills by getting readers to reach the desired conclusion, without ever saying a single word that directly leads them there: namely, that our whole foreign-service system is an institutional disaster, and needs radical overhaul from top to bottom.

I will just note that the character of the American diplomatic corps does not magically improve when the people are at home, any more than you can remove the Pakistaniyat by moving someone from Lahore to Liverpool.

PS: I read the book more than 20 years ago; and so remember the spirit, not the substance, of the book.

[Vayutuvan]

Lilo: I am not making any leaps of logic. I am simply putting forth the possible line of thinking of some folks at DoS. If anybody made any leaps of logic it would be them. They may not be any better off than before in terms of garnering information considering the mixed reaction it entailed. Indian urban elite and the upper middle classes want a corruption free government which condition the incumbent govt. fail to satisfy. So the alternative is to prop up AAP. But then they still do not have a clue as to which way the non-elite majority will swing. Assuming that there is some truth to the theory of EVM rigging, then US has to know where to rig, right? Anyway, this is not only OT it is also a CT which I pulled out of my hat.

To come back to topic, I feel that it Dr. DK''s opposition to IP issues that resulted in this fiasco. Very simply put, if the US wants India to open their markets for consumer goods, then they should be ready to open their markets for Indian labor. It is only fair. Moreover all IP related issues to be resolved through multilateral bodies.

The US is increasingly looking to be isolated by the world. Nobody likes them on the ground, even in Europe. They have to self-limit the greed or it is going to come back and bite them in the behind sooner than later.

[KLP Dubey]

Then you speak about a rule the specifics of which you again seem to lack a grasp of ... like how many years a person needs to be associated/reside in India to become a naturalised citizen ?

My question , What of all the visits to nagpur area sampling and advising on popularising the nascent (yet world class) Indian wines abroad and the formal position Mr Rathore held as adviser to Govt of Maharashtra - wonder how much of residentship time it amounts to hain ji?

Lilo,

I fail to understand what you are implying!

I am aware of the requirements for citizenship. I believe 8 years have gone by in this case. As a PIO himself, and his father being a PIO as well, he could have taken OCI for five years and then resided in India for a year to complete the requirements. Immediately upon learning of the marriage, the MEA should have counselled DK and her husband on ways to follow the rules - or asked her to quit the IFS.

Their minor children can also be immediately registered as Indian citizens if there is convincing evidence of special circumstances, which certainly there is in this case.

BTW when did Foreign Service began to get equated with "Territorial Army".

Excuse me - I quoted it because the same rules apply to IFS and Armed Forces personnel. The latter seem to be enforcing the rules properly.

Again, I am pointing out that this incident highlights the complete haphazardness, apathy, non-standardization, and incompetence of the government. Look even at cases like Sonia Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi who are constitutionally disqualified from becoming PM. Yet we have a country where there are year-long opinion polls featuring the names of these people as PM candidates. It is up to "lone crusaders" like Dr Swamy to prevent such disasters, whereas in reality a simple order from a government office debarring such people from the PM's position would suffice.

[ramana]

matrimc, Look at the timeline. Its way beyond the NYC speech by DK on IP.
The Reuters had a report that 170 US Congressmen had complained about Indian bureaucrats preventing them from selling goods in June 2013.


I used to have paperback of the Ugly American but gave it away.

[Vayutuvan]

ramana garu: So your contention is that it is an economic spat but unrelated to IP? But in reality these two are completely intertwined. If Indian manufacturing can reverse engineer American machine parts, then they can potentially become 2nd level (1st level is a stretch though which is all sued up by Europeans) and after market suppliers of auto- and aerospace parts which I think are the most lucrative.
Reverse engineering of machine parts does not require much capital - a laser scanner (not the desktop type but one which can produce point cloud data), a few Solid Modeling and CAE packages, and may be a few CNCs and one is ready to go. All that is protecting US from totally being overrun is IP and WTO sword. Whether Chinese are already far ahead in the game and whether India can catch up is a question I am unable to answer at the moment. In my estimation India has a 20 year window and it is GoI's responsibility to line up the ducks. But I suspect there may be vested interests at play who are stopping that from happening.

[Cosmo_R]

When things go wrong you've got to be able to produce a body for sacrifice. The Foreign Service is no different than any government organization. The Mays will be "it". Unless you are absolutely convinced the Foreign Service in total is a racist, bigotted organization that looks down on poor people. I personally do not thik that is the case. A stumbling bureaucracy, that sometimes doesn't have the common sense that God gave a goose? Yes, I believe that. But a total arm of evil biggoted people? No I don't think that.

FWIW, I think you are right on Wayne May. He will suffer along with Uzra Zeya and one Mustafa Herro (I kid you not and it's a she). The 'brass' at DoS are seriously PO'd at what has happened. They share the moment with Chris Christie and Bridgegate and they don't like it and they are looking for heads to roll.

In any bureaucratic environment, you get ahead by quietly sticking it to those in front of you and there are many in waiting. May will definitely (:)) feel the bite on his review—meaning his next assignment will be where he not only misses steak but other basic amenities as well.

Time wounds all heels.

Overall, the USFS is pretty idealistic (if naive) and far from bigoted. If you want to know who the really bigoted diplos in India are, I'd say start with the Dutch, followed by the Russians. The Scandinavians (in particular the Danes) are at the forefront as well. The Italians are no prize either. Way below are the Brits and the US.

[Vayutuvan]

On a lighter note - philosophers do not get any respec', man. I do feel for them as my hobby is philosophy of math and philosophy of science.

humour thread in burkha

[member_22733]

.....snip.......

Time wounds all heels.
......snip......

WTF am I reading????

[saip]

Kind of spoonerism?

[sanjaykumar]

Overall, the USFS is pretty idealistic (if naive) and far from bigoted. If you want to know who the really bigoted diplos in India are, I'd say start with the Dutch, followed by the Russians. The Scandinavians (in particular the Danes) are at the forefront as well. The Italians are no prize either. Way below are the Brits and the US.

However did you get this information? And does it matter if Danes are bigoted? Most educated Indians might think a Dane is dog.

[Cosmo_R]

Overall, the USFS is pretty idealistic (if naive) and far from bigoted. If you want to know who the really bigoted diplos in India are, I'd say start with the Dutch, followed by the Russians. The Scandinavians (in particular the Danes) are at the forefront as well. The Italians are no prize either. Way below are the Brits and the US.

However did you get this information? And does it matter if Danes are bigoted? Most educated Indians might think a Dane is dog.

From people in the USFS that I interacted with from 1955-1980. Enough to form an opinion. The Dane, Dutch incidents are public domain. The Italians I know personally.

Hope this helps. Unless of course, you wish to label all USFS personnel as bigoted.

I don't think most educated Indians would think a Dane is a dog. But then it could just be me.

[Cosmo_R]

Just got this re Uzra Ziya:

"The Growing Presence of American Converts to Islam"

http://www.wrmea.org/wrmea-archives/123 ... islam.html

[sanjaykumar]

I don't think most educated Indians would think a Dane is a dog. But then it could just be me.


Just being sarcastic/caustic saar (see Great Dane).

I do not know about USFS, but my interactions with the average American have nearly all been pleasant.

Great experience/backgrounds brought to the table by members. It would have been better if people like Raman and Tim Hoyt , Johann had not left.

[SSridhar]

I think more than anything else, a downturn in relations means US can do significant damage to India at the strategic level. I mean US India TSP has always been a zero sum game. TSP punches above its weight because of US support. Increased US pampering of TSP will surely hurt India.

CRS, I sincerely believe that, for various reasons, the days are long gone of the US significantly damaging India at the strategic level. The US would also be damaging itself in the bargain. While none of us would wish the Indo-US relationship to reach the nadir of the 70s, such a wish cannot be merely because of the fear of being hurt 'significantly' if it so happened.

It is still early days on the DK issue. First we suspected that PIO DA's hand, then Af-Pak, then SD, then Iran, then rift between the WH and the SD, then trade, now IP. We are speculating yet. We have to dig up the true reason. There is certainly a deep conspiracy that GoI could not anticipate and it blew up on their face.

[KLP Dubey]

I think now that DK has very good first hand experience with US system she should be out in the America desk so the US diplomats get to meet her in Delhi every time they visit and think over what they did.

My idea is to post her as a officer in charge of immunity/privileges of foreign diplomats (perhaps known as the protocol officer???). Force US embassy to petition her for relief in these time of excessive pandugiri as far as US diplomats are concerned

Now that would be a true "Boss DK" posting! Sorry, couldn't resist.

[ramana]

No really matrimc. I am saying the issue was on slow boil since June 2013 and the IP speech is not a trigger.

I am reading a lot of books on piskology and hind sight bias and story/narrative bias works/distorts the perspective.

we should try to fit the simplest story that fits the facts.

The simplest is overs zealous May family used their position and mind view to fix DK to teach a lesson.

PB et al are patsies.
If US was on enemy action they would not have issued the diplomatic immunity and ask or it to be waived. They did that to save PB and DOJ face so they can go on with their indictment charade.
In fact India should insist that DK had immunity from July when she was accredited to the UN mission prior to MMS visit. If US SD was tardy in acknowledging the fact its their problem.

[member_28108]

I think now that DK has very good first hand experience with US system she should be out in the America desk so the US diplomats get to meet her in Delhi every time they visit and think over what they did.

My idea is to post her as a officer in charge of immunity/privileges of foreign diplomats (perhaps known as the protocol officer???). Force US embassy to petition her for relief in these time of excessive pandugiri as far as US diplomats are concerned

Better still she needs to be posted in Kabul or Sudan (does Sudan have an US Embassy there now ?)!!

[pankajs]

Devyani fallout: 'India wants change in visa status of domestic helps'

New Delhi: In a major fallout after the Devyani Khobragade case, the Foreign Ministry reportedly pressured the Finance Ministry to bring changes in the status of domestic workers who go to the United States of America with other Indian envoys, sources said.

It is curtains over the Devyani case but not for many other domestic helps who are still staying or go to the US with Indian envoys.

According to an english news channel, Foreign Secretary Sujata Singh met senior Finance Ministry officials on Sunday over this matter, sources said.

Around 14 more maids are still there in US who had went there on A3 visa like Sangeeta Richard, the domestic help of Devyani. The visa subjects them to US laws. All of them have gone under the same informal arrangement with the US state department.

Better late than never.

[pankajs]

Indo-US Ties Must Be Based on Reciprocity

New Delhi’s decision to expel Wayne May, chief of the US embassy’s diplomatic security contingent in Delhi, shows that India is finally shedding its attitude of servitude towards America. That the US has allowed Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade to return to India after she was indicted by a jury for “visa fraud” and for underpaying her domestic help is not enough. New Delhi needs to do more to set Indo-US relations on a foundation of respect and reciprocity. We should continue denial of special privileges to US diplomats serving in India till Washington reciprocates. The measures taken against US embassy staff and others—withdrawal of liquor permits, removal of road barriers outside the Delhi embassy and withdrawal of other special privileges—should remain. They were unilateral benefits we gave. The US does not give us any such concessions on its territory. The special entry and freedom from frisking that we offer US officials should be withdrawn and remain so, unless there is complete reciprocity.

The Americans would have least expected that India, under the weak and ineffective Manmohan Singh government, would flex its muscles. US arrogance and highhandedness have always been manifest in varying degrees. Dr APJ Abdul Kalam was frisked at New York airport when he visited the US in 2011. When India protested, the US only regretted that appropriate procedures for “expedited screening” of VIPs were not followed.

Yet, it cannot be denied that while the Americans betrayed great arrogance in treatment of Khobragade who was kept in a cell for a few hours in company of criminals, India also went too far in insisting on an American apology after secretary of state John Kerry had expressed regret. The removal of barricades from outside the US embassy was not in good taste. India has rightly made its point. Now, while sticking to reciprocity, it is time to heal the relationship in Indo-US strategic interests.

I disagree with the last line. "Indo-US strategic interests" is a fraud just like its elder brother "strategic partnership". We should only worry about Indian strategic interests. The US is quite capable of taking care of its own.

[KJo]

The US Govt committed a stupid mistake of banning NaMo. The Devyani fiasco is the second.
I can't decide whether it was merely stupidity or part of a larger plan.

[saip]

How many US Diplomats were asked to leave? From this it appears to be two, one in 48 hours & the other in 72 hours or is it DDMitis?
Link

[pankajs]

Only one that I know of. I think the cursed is speaking out of turn and getting it all mixed up. Go by what has been put out by the MEA crats. They are the ones who are ramrodding this deal.

[Singha]

todays print edition of India today has this on the inside page. our senior officials read no fb, but they read TOI for sure over their morning beverage.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 719329.cms

WASHINGTON: The US official who was expelled in a tit-for-tat diplomatic battle over Devyani Khobragade was nearing the end of his posting in India, scheduled to leave New Delhi in February. But in their three years in India, Wayne May, who headed the US embassy's security team in New Delhi, and his wife Alicia Muller May, who worked as the embassy's community liaison officer, revealed conflicting impulses and contradictory outlook towards the people and country they served in.

On the one hand, it was evidently their bleeding heart concern for housekeeper Sangeeta Richard, whose in-laws worked with them and a succession of US embassy officials, that led them to "rescue" the nanny's husband and children from the strong-arm tactics of the Indian judicial and police system that diplomat Devyani Khobragade unleashed on them after Sangeeta fell out with her. On the other hand, their facetious comments about a stereotypical India abounding in chaos and filth, which some might see as offensive, shows them as the archetypal "ugly Americans".

They laid out their opinions and views quite guilelessly on social media through photographs and comments that were quickly seized on and distributed by bloggers and trolls ever sensitive to any perceived insult of India. Although the comments are often flippant, the kind many people make on social media without fear of consequence, they sound extremely offensive now given the fraught context of the diplomatic spat. Their profiles, pictures and comments were removed and their social media presence sanitized soon after they were discovered, but not before the online warriors had saved and uploaded them on other social media sites, portraying them as "racist American diplomats".

The Indian "holy cow" is a recurring theme in their entries, starting from the time Wayne May was posted in New Delhi in 2010. The first of the pictures appears in June 2010 with a comment from Wayne saying, "No eating the sacred cows". A little later, he adds, "one week in country and I already miss steak".

His wife Alicia captions another photo "Stupid Cow". A friend comments, "You just insulted their cow," to which May responds, "Not the first time, not the last time". But a short time later, she shows the kind of frustration that many Indians might also share: "Just wait till you have to dodge these beasts in your car because they are laying in the middle of the road blocking traffic — they lose their 'holiness' real fast. And, as holy as they are supposed to be, most of them are bodyline starved. It's awful to see. Everything is a contradiction here ..."

There is other banter in which enraged nationalists see signs of Indian laws being broken by the meat-loving diplomats. "Had real American Hamburgers for dinner last night. A friend smuggled them in his suitcase last night," Alicia Muller May writes in September 2010, soon after their arrival in India, adding, "water buffalo burgers just aren't cutting it. Oh, the simple pleasures of life ..." Another time, she alerts her friends in Delhi to "a good friend in Beijing who is coming to the CLO office with beautiful pearls for sale ..." — which some see as evidence that embassy premises were being used for commercial activities.

In one bizarre exchange in November 2012 in response to a Huffington Post article on claims that are meat eaters being more prone to violence and sex crimes, Alicia May says "I'd like them to do a follow up article on how many vegetarians rape women here every day." It is the vegetarians that are doing the raping, not the meat eaters, she says, later adding that, "Applies only to Indians, not westerners".

The domestic Indian staff for whom they professedly had concern don't come out very well either in their corrosive social media exchanges. In one photograph, it is pointed out that their pet dog Paco looks bigger and in better health than their Indian gardener. Paco, says May, gets more protein in his diet. Another time, May goes to a mosque in Delhi with two visitors where they get a VIP tour because they are from the US embassy.

"I hate the taste but I have to be polite," she says about having to drink tea at the mosque. Her friend: "Tea? I thought it was coffee." "If it tastes like rancid mushroom, don't drink it." Friend (who is evidently serving in Afghanistan): ''Everything is rancid in Afghanistan. That's how you know it is farm fresh."

To be sure, most of the exchanges are frivolous and typical of social media tattle. But given the sensitive positions they occupied in the US embassy, they are, particularly in hindsight, astonishingly offensive, robbing the couple of their "bleeding heart" credentials that is said to have led them to spirit out Sangeeta Richard's family from New Delhi. The biggest irony: Alicia Muller May is the US embassy's community liaison officer.