2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

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Suraj
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Suraj »

ManSingh wrote:
srin wrote:Curious on one question: Is the APMC going to be shut down ? Why can't the farmers who like the APMC so much sell there instead of availing the new freedoms ?
It is a million dollar question if APMC is going to be shut down or not. One of the proposals submitted by Punjab government as a response to the farm bills was to ask the central government to pass a "sunset clause" law under which it will pay Punjab government for procurement for next 10 years. This practice is also known as procurement at MSP.

It has been turned down, so it basically implies that at some point APMC's could be wound down, probably in less than 10 years from now. This is the primary reason for the demand to ask MSP to be codified into a law.
Ive already quoted data on this from the FCI site. There are two entities who procure - the FCI and the state government. The latter means the APMCs . Here is the data:
https://fci.gov.in/app/webroot/upload/P ... eat_50.pdf
While this chart makes it look like Punjab is the dominant wheat producer, this is not true. In any given year it ranks between 2 and 4:
https://www.mapsofindia.com/top-ten/ind ... wheat.html

Punjab (and Haryana) is instead distinguished by the APMC having a dominant stake in offtake. Compare that to neighboring UP, which is the top producer and yet only about 3.5MT gets procured by the state, with the rest being open market.

The center should not pay the Punjab government for MSP support. The reason is simple - it is an arbitrage option being demanded by one state. The Punjab government gets a 15% cut of the procurement price, and a high price backed by the central government means a high cut.

Punjab is the only major wheat producing state that uses APMCs for almost all of its procurement. That needs to end. Given that it produces less than UP, its APMC should not have to procure so much either. In other words cut Punjab APMC procurement by 80-90% to align with UP or Rajasthan.

It is not reasonable for Punjab to demand any sunset clause to help end its state APMC monopoly . That is a creature of its own state politics, where actual farmers are outnumbered 200:1 by middlemen.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

Image


here is the original link
Allow corporates to procure wheat: Farmers


Tribune News Service
Chandigarh, April 2

Farmers from Punjab and Haryana today staged a demonstration in the city in protest against the decision of the Centre to ban corporates from procuring wheat from their states.

Led by Sharad Joshi, MP, and Bhupinder Mann, a BKU leader from Haryana, the farmers rued that though the price of wheat had shot up to Rs 1,600 per quintal in the international market, the government was forcing them to sell their produce at the minimum support price of Rs 1,000 per quintal.

Hundreds of farmers gathered at Sector 34 and marched towards the Parade Ground, Sector 17.

Addressing the farmers, Joshi said the government was more concerned about maintaining the food security but least concerned about the problems of farmers.

“Why should the farmers suffer losses by selling their produce at lower rates to the government agencies. The market forces, and not politics, should be allowed to rule,” he said.


Mann said the government was expecting the total wheat production to reach 250 lakh metric tonnes from Punjab and Haryana. He said by selling at a loss of Rs 600 per quintal, the farmers from these states would suffer a loss of Rs 1,500 crore. He said another protest would be held at Kurukshetra on April 21.
edited to add a second image. This is from the chandigarh edition of Hindustan times of the day, apr 03, 2008

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Last edited by chetak on 07 Dec 2020 00:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by sanjaykumar »

hanumadu wrote:This is what Punjabis fate is going to be if they keep obstructing reforms.
Image

This is the fundamental problem. I can remember seeing a (what I felt was a near racist) Western documentary which contrasted Sikh farmers in Panjab utilising the green revolution inputs to produce amazing results with small dark men in Tamil Nadu working unproductive soil. Today these small dark men have a good education and industries, with high technology infrastructure and corporations coming to their state. I am so glad for them.

The Panjabi farmer today is exactly where he was then.

Panjab has the Dutch disease (please look it up). Even Haryana is adapting to new demands. And Haryanvi famers may be even more conservative than Panjabi Jat farmers.

Please no outraged responses to this post. It is an observation, take it for what it's worth. I wish Panjab success. They need to do better than this.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by OmkarC »

Shanmukh wrote:Looks like BJP has got 35% of the vote in the GHMC polls, practically on par with the TRS, which has just 0.3% of the vote higher. As the Congress comes crashing down, expect the BJP to expand into the eastern and southern parts of the state. We are looking at BJP being in the contest for ~500 of the 543 seats in the next Lok Sabha. Andhra, and TN are the only states where the BJP has <10% of the vote, it seems. And BJP will do decently well in Kerala in the coming local bodies polls and the assembly elections next year.

I had predicted, during the LS19 polls, that by 2024, BJP would be the ruling party or principal opposition in all states except perhaps Andhra and TN. Looks like that is going to happen.

https://www.thehansindia.com/news/citie ... 016-660313
The actual voting percentage of TRS was less, they rigged the polls in the last hour.. the polling percentage jumped 10 points in the last hour or two, and there were non-Swastika, pen-marked ballots (which the state CEC issued a midnight circular to consider as valid). BJP would've easily been the single largest party (but of course its good that it didnt happen that way, now they can stay in opposition and hold TRS/MIM mayors responsible for the mess they will continue to create).

As for MIM, those M-voters who were disgruntled with MIM corporators lack of performance apparently self-censored themselves from voting booths :) to ensure Owaisi Saab's victory.. Must admit the amount of discipline & unity even the poorest of their lot show is astonishing.. even when their corporators eat 50% of flood relief funds and leave these poor souls submerged in their shanty huts and even if unjustly denied relief compensation due to landlord-tenant rules, they still vote/behave in such a manner that it benefits the larger interests of their Qaum.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

come 2022, when it is going to be completed, this is the proposed new Indian Parliament building.


Image
chetak
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

kaushik basu has cherry picked the year right after the financial crisis (the rebound year) and compared it to the worst period of the pandemic-induced slowdown.

He is an "economist and an intellectual".


via@RMantri

Image

and what Taleb says so eloquently, applies equally to raghu ram rajan, the liberandu who is desperately pitching to become the next PM/FinMin of India, BIF and pappu willing

Those with brains no balls become mathematicians, those with balls no brains join the mafia, those with no balls no brains become economists.
-Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by sanjaykumar »

That building displays evidence of a profound deficit of esthetics.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by sudarshan »

Hope it's not modeled on the Pentagon :-? .
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

I liked it. It looks good and also secure.

they must have incorporated lessons learned after the pakis attacked the parliament.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

Haryana (2007 INC), Karnataka (2003, INC), Maharashtra (2006, INC-NCP), MP (2003, INC), Odisha (2006, BJD), & others made provisions for contract farming under state APMC Act. Punjab (2013, SAD), Tamil Nadu (2019, AIADMK), Odisha (2020, BJD) passed separate Contract Farming Acts
via@Satyanewshi

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chetak
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

Now the sale money will be credited to their accounts in 3 days time

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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

https://www.rediff.com/news/column/give ... 201206.htm
Give farmers a face-saver to end the siege of Delhi

Finding itself trapped in a cul de sac, all things considered, a negotiated climbdown at this juncture seems the only sensible course available for the Centre, suggests Virendra Kapoor.
Briefly, the first law seeks to create one country, one market for farm produce, envisaging greater use of e-trading in agricultural commodities on a nationwide platform, ensuring better price for producers without middlemen cornering hefty commissions.

Farmers are free to sell to whoever they want at prices agreed between them and the buyer, with middlemen playing no role whatsoever.

The second seeks to give legal sanction to contract farming by private players.

Given the growing popularity of the e-market retailers in the food sector and expansion of food processing industries, sourcing of farm produce directly from the growers is bound to get a further boost, again expanding the options for growers for selling their crop.

The third law is a corollary of the second. Deleting cereals, pulses, potatoes, onions, etc from the list of essential items so that these can be bought in bulk without quantity limit and preserved in cold storage for longer periods to meet market demand.

Therefore, it is no surprise the three Acts have elicited universal endorsement of farm experts.

Ashok Gulati, the widely respected agricultural economist who has been pressing for this for decades, has whole-heartedly welcomed them.

So have several others with domain knowledge. Yet, multiple vested interests who stand to lose financially in case Indian agriculture were to break free from the stranglehold of the Agriculture Produce Market Committees have ganged up to oppose the far-reaching and long-overdue reforms.
Despite its good intentions to modernise the long-stagnant farm sector, to inject private capital and modern technology for higher yields per acre and better incomes for landowners, it finds itself stymied by vested interests.
But losing a small battle and living to win a big war is sensible rather than aggravating the situation and allowing the hardliners to dig in their heels.

Right now, the utmost priority should be to clear the highways leading into the national capital.

It cannot be achieved without offering the protesters a sense of 'victory,'
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

vijayk wrote:https://www.rediff.com/news/column/give ... 201206.htm

Give farmers a face-saver to end the siege of Delhi
this shaheenbagh-2 will be followed by the next lot of road blocker "protestors", maybe shaheenbagh-3.................

what happens then.............

and the next one after that,

and the next one after that,

where does it end finally

and what about the irreparable damage inflicted wilfully on the govt, which is the primary intent here :mrgreen:

what about the govt's credibility to bring about systemic changes, sustain reforms and provide a level playing field when mobs on the streets can upturn and nullify laws passed by the parliament of India

what about foreign investors who come in expecting policy stability and find out that any bunch aholes with any imagined grievances, can riot on the roads, can block roads and and force the gov to change laws passed democratically by the Indian parliament.

are we a banana republic, is this what we want to show to others worldwide and still expect to bring their money and invest it in India

for anyone blocking roads/trains etc, Pass law immediately for imposing collective and harsh financial punishments must be obligatorily paid, and otherwise, if not paid, then the properties of the guilty to be confiscated and sold at public auction
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vimal »

chetak wrote:come 2022, when it is going to be completed, this is the proposed new Indian Parliament building.
The old parliament building's design was supposedly inspired by chausat yogini mandir, circular design of ancient temple helped it survive even strong earthquakes.

Image

New building looks like the desi version of the Millennium Falcon. It was designed by one HCP design which has a reputation of making run of the mill insipid Soviet era blocky designs since the time of Bandit ji. For all the wonderful architecture and knowledge that Bhartiyas espouse this is the best we could come up with :cry: .
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

vimal wrote:
chetak wrote:come 2022, when it is going to be completed, this is the proposed new Indian Parliament building.
The old parliament building's design was supposedly inspired by chausat yogini mandir, circular design of ancient temple helped it survive even strong earthquakes.

[img]https://images.indianexpress.com/2020/1 ... 00.jpg[img]

New building looks like the desi version of the Millennium Falcon. It was designed by one HCP design which has a reputation of making run of the mill insipid Soviet era blocky designs since the time of Bandit ji. For all the wonderful architecture and knowledge that Bhartiyas espouse this is the best we could come up with :cry: .
they had many people who presented their designs.

and some sarkari babooze committee must have homed in on this.

looks OK to me.

there are no overt or covert signs of religious influence on the design so it is bland and as un-zany as it gets.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by IndraD »

https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/ ... cq3YO.html
The politics behind the farm protests
Rural India enjoys disproportionate political power. It’s time for a change
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

IndraD wrote:https://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/ ... cq3YO.html
The politics behind the farm protests
Rural India enjoys disproportionate political power. It’s time for a change
all political parties are scared $chitt less about farmers and their votes.

this has worked very strongly in their favor for the past 70 odd years

and now they are actually out there, farmers of the punjab, trying to scare the elected central govt and all other state govts too, to capitulate abjectly and surrender without a fight.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vimal »

chetak wrote:
vimal wrote:
The old parliament building's design was supposedly inspired by chausat yogini mandir, circular design of ancient temple helped it survive even strong earthquakes.

[img]https://images.indianexpress.com/2020/1 ... 00.jpg[img]

New building looks like the desi version of the Millennium Falcon. It was designed by one HCP design which has a reputation of making run of the mill insipid Soviet era blocky designs since the time of Bandit ji. For all the wonderful architecture and knowledge that Bhartiyas espouse this is the best we could come up with :cry: .
they had many people who presented their designs.

and some sarkari babooze committee must have homed in on this.

looks OK to me.

there are no overt or covert signs of religious influence on the design so it is bland and as un-zany as it gets.

HCP design is an old timer dynasty favorite, they've created many many such buildings all of who mimic Stalinist architecture.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by chetak »

the paki national begging bowl has worn out with over use and heavy load :mrgreen:


however, the nigerians are doing the needful, and upon repeated and abject paki begging; they have gifted the paki foreign min a new begging bowl.

paki ek dum kush but the beggar that he is, the paki foreign min cannot even afford a mask to wear at a diplomatic function and niazi couldn't lend him the sole paki govt official mask because bajwa ji is using it.

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Last edited by chetak on 07 Dec 2020 05:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by IndraD »

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In Canada, UK, US Sikhs are being told govt in India owns media, and media is tarnishing Sikh (farmers) as Khalistani
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vimal »

The one painting in the cartoon looks like Arnab.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by sudarshan »

vimal wrote:The one painting in the cartoon looks like Arnab.
Good catch! Got to hand it to them though, being the instigators, and also being first off the bat to portray the whole thing to suit themselves. Definitely preplanned to a good level of detail.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by SBajwa »

Avtar Singh wrote:There are a millions of rules and regulations in India that need to be thrown on the bonfire,
includes reams of the tax code.

For someone like me, PM Modi has proceeded at a snails pace.

As for all those coming on here thinking they can persuade BR people that the nonsense which
goes on is somehow beneficial for any ordinary Indian/farmer beggars belief.

You know I am surrounded by these types of family members who are, I cannot even be polite..
the british would say they are thicker than.... unrepeatable!

I have been going to India, you can guess where... since 2000, to visit my farther who returned there in
the 1990s... It is now 2020. I have often landed at ATQ.

20 years these very clever people have been trying to build the ATQ to Jalandhar road!!!
These very clever people with the same surname as myself who have cracked all things farming.

Do not worry I say this to my own family members; morons your are morons.
Please feel free to delete if my language is too strong, even my british friends will wince
when I tell them the reality of the situation.
So my language is probably too strong for this forum.

Stop taking ISI/CCP money and try to put what little brains you have towards building/punjab
and India. But somehow I dont think the intelligence is there so only income left is to do the bidding
of ISI/CCP or corruption.

RANT OVER.... sometimes you are not having a discussion with logical and intelligent person...
eg FLIC = Fake Liberal Islamist Communist type or one of their useful idiots...
One has to resort to ad hominem attacks to discredit them, they deserve nothing better.

I have noticed the troll like character of the KiranA chap, one could postpone all reforms for another
50 years.... That maybe a suitable pace (sarcasm, for those that do not understand)

Avtar Sing ji,
I feel for you., I have at least missed flight 2 times due to these dharnas and rail roko andolans. These same very people who block rails and roads are responsible for billions of dollars to tax payers along with responsible for increase in prices.
Jalandhar- Amritsar road has been in construction since 40 years and it is the single most bottleneck., one time I spent 6 hours with my 80 years old mother stuck on this road.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Santosh »

https://www.opindia.com/2020/12/farmer- ... es-hindus/
‘Inki aurate take-take ke bhaw bikti thi’, after justifying death threat to PM Modi, Yuvraj Singh’s father Yograj Singh humiliates Hindus

Govt should make it clear that no one will be allowed to spoil civic atmosphere and create communal disturbance and that any such activity will lead to arrest and imprisonment. These anti-nationals and BIF need to be dealt with tough hand. Leaders should be picked up whenever they give such antinational speech/statements.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Cyrano »

sanjaykumar wrote:That building displays evidence of a profound deficit of esthetics.
Couldn't agree more. Its hideous. Couldn't find anything about who designed it, except this:
sorry for the inverted image, not my doing !
Image
The construction of this building saw many twists and turns, akin to a racy thriller. Herbert Baker, the British architect, initially proposed, on this triangular plot a plan with three wings. The present proposal of the new Parliament House is an uncanny throwback to this proposal. Lutyens, however, disapproved of Baker’s design and instead proposed a circular, colosseum-like plan. Lutyens prevailed and Baker had to rework his original design.
Assuming we did need a new building, I'd have expected something on the lines of Bangalore Vidhan Soudha or Umaid Bhavan etc. The visuals reported make me think of a failed ex-soviet block state's building.

A nice approach would have been to make a requirements dossier and hold a competition inviting all Architecture schools of India and select a winner. Can be done even now, there is no hurry !
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by greatde »

“He who shouts the loudest gets heard”.To resolve that, was key underlying reason why Modi was elected, alongside development and Congress mukt Bharat.

Be it the 2nd largest community group and their veto power, or any lobby groups. Yet, this show of force protests or taking roads as hostage has only increased. And its a worldwide phenomenon. Its shows a inherent weakness in democracy systems.

And then the urban vs rural divide, will only increase. What does an honest taxpayer get back in this country relative to farmers? Our best talents will continue to go abroad.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Prem Kumar »

Delhi Police Nabs Five Terrorists Including Two Khalistanis As It Averts Major Terror Plot

Connect the dots with Shaheen Bagh 2.0, a.k.a Punjabi Farmers protest in Delhi.

I think, strategically speaking, successive Govts including Modiji's have neglected to handle the following trends in Punjab, resulting in the mess we are in:

1) Drug smuggling: we should have sent death squads into Pakistan to eliminate the sources & conduits
2) Rabid proselytization: slightly harder to deal with, but can't keep looking the other way
3) Asylum of Khalistanis in Canada & UK: should have applied pressure on these countries & publicly shamed them for harboring terrorists

Our enemies haven't given up on Punjab, after we won the war against terror there. But we seemed to have declared victory & complacently laid back. Ruthlessness was missing in eradicating the sources of the above #BreakingPunjab forces, all of which are outside India (but with some local support)
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by nvishal »

If you think the Punjabi castes on the Indian side are a nuisance value, even when they have no power in new delhi, imagine the situation across the border. They own the Pak army, the pak ISI and the Pak govt. Understand the situation pakistan is in currently(the way it is run and administered) and understand how greatful India is currently.

Do not ruffle your feathers over yograj singhs comments on hindus. Many punjabis like him are well aware that the biggest victims of Arab conquest are the Punjabi's(partitioned by their own castes they once called brothers) and Sindhi's. They call Hindus as slaves etc as a form of defensive tactic.

The farm laws will end many monopolies created by the green revolution within a selected castes in the north. The introduction of the private sector will hopefully kickstart modernization in middle and south India. Fingers crossed.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

Quick question on this protests

Why does BJP allow these protestors to congregate after Shaheenbagh and Delhi riots? Why can't IB provide this info earlier and thwart these idiots to come in? As soon as they come in Ismalists, Naxals, Commies, CON party and now Sikh extremists and filthy shit from US/Canada start adding fuel to the fire. We have to nip it in the bud. Don't let them in. Is it too difficult?
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by sanjaykumar »

Perhaps the slavers preferred women without moustaches.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by sanjaykumar »

I see the Panjab CM is looking for more special treatment. Wants priority COVID-19 vaccination for Panjab.

Par for the course.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Tanaji »

I dont see how this is going to end well for the government. The government will have to walk back on some of the amendments. Leave alone face saving measures, the farmers organisations are currently not budging from their demand of complete withdrawal of all 3 laws.

If it devolves into violence the optics won’t be great and the Khalistanis will have a field day.

The government can’t seem to back down as of it does then every body and their dog will blockade roads.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by vijayk »

Tanaji wrote:I dont see how this is going to end well for the government. The government will have to walk back on some of the amendments. Leave alone face saving measures, the farmers organisations are currently not budging from their demand of complete withdrawal of all 3 laws.

If it devolves into violence the optics won’t be great and the Khalistanis will have a field day.

The government can’t seem to back down as of it does then every body and their dog will blockade roads.
This is why we have to check their propensity to allow these folks to come and gather in these large numbers.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by greatde »

Tanaji wrote:I dont see how this is going to end well for the government. The government will have to walk back on some of the amendments. Leave alone face saving measures, the farmers organisations are currently not budging from their demand of complete withdrawal of all 3 laws.

If it devolves into violence the optics won’t be great and the Khalistanis will have a field day.

The government can’t seem to back down as of it does then every body and their dog will blockade roads.
Surely, the onus is on farm-bills supporters to create their own "pressure points". This movement has to be countered/offset with another movement. Where is the pro-BJP base, and the rigor to battle it out? Be it on election day, streets, courts ?
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Ambar »

Ecosystem or the absence of it. The left has an incredible traction with easily organizable sections of the society - labor, students, women groups, media etc. Can you imagine BJP whipping up such a frenzy on completely irrational fears like CAA or the farm bills in INC rules states ? Impossible.

As for those criticizing intelligence failure, i think after anti-CAA protests it was clear with or without intelligence that the experiment will be repeated over and over again. In a country as chaotic and emotional such as ours, it is not hard to bring in 50k protestors in buses and trucks and just take over a highway. Use police force, and then you risk violence which will also become front page news thanks to left's grip on the media. If the government withdraws the bills, then i bet farm bill protestors will turn into CAA protestors next month and Babri restoration demanders the month after. The best course of action is for the government to communicate the salient points of the bill over and over again. I think this ruckus will continue and violence will pick up when Boris Johnson is in India next month. Delhi was set alight and over 50 people lost their lives when Trump was visiting, BIF will want to repeat the same thing when Boris Johnson is in town.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by KJo »

Ambar wrote:Ecosystem or the absence of it. The left has an incredible traction with easily organizable sections of the society - labor, students, women groups, media etc. Can you imagine BJP whipping up such a frenzy on completely irrational fears like CAA or the farm bills in INC rules states ? Impossible.
That is one of the advantages of the lowest forms of thought. Most people are not intellectuals, I would say most people are below average intelligence as the smart people are really smart but fewer so that skews things. The villagers have their own daily issues to deal with and are very susceptible to mischievous elements like commies, lefties, Congress who also are the lowest forms of thought, but have the nuisance element added.

RoP is the same way. Very low and petty system of thought. But it appeals to a lot of people because most people are below average intellect and reasoning. You will see RoP popular in jails and among violent/disturbed people because it has elements to appeal to their baser instincts.

That makes it hard for higher thinking that Modi/Shah are doing for the country.
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by dsreedhar »

Modi govt can make some give/take but should not yield and do total rollback. Let the protestors sit in. Somebody must be paying them. Let those coffers drain.
Meantime BJP workers on ground should reach out to the non-protesting farmers all over the country especially BJP ruled states, and help them understand the benefits from the bills and take away any apprehensions or lies.
Catch the culprits at the top who are fueling these protests and take them to task and put pressure on the foreign govts(UK, US, Canada). Overseas BJP should also work to debunk these overseas protest supporters.
Break the protesting farmers into sane/reasonable and corrupt/radical groups. Work with the sane/reasonable ones.
Not going to be easy but a long drawn out process.
KJo
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by KJo »

dsreedhar wrote:Modi govt can make some give/take but should not yield and do total rollback. Let the protestors sit in. Somebody must be paying them. Let those coffers drain.
Meantime BJP workers on ground should reach out to the non-protesting farmers all over the country especially BJP ruled states, and help them understand the benefits from the bills and take away any apprehensions or lies.
Catch the culprits at the top who are fueling these protests and take them to task and put pressure on the foreign govts(UK, US, Canada). Overseas BJP should also work to debunk these overseas protest supporters.
Break the protesting farmers into sane/reasonable and corrupt/radical groups. Work with the sane/reasonable ones.
Not going to be easy but a long drawn out process.
After a while it becomes an issue of face saving for the farmers. How can they go back without getting any 'concessions'. Since they are our own people, misled as they are, I think it makes sense to afford them some. Maybe the Modi Govt can make some nominal concessions and package it a way that these protestors can go back and say they got what they wanted anyway.

But as you say, there is a deeper picture, who is funding this? This needs to be traced and outsiders shut out, and insiders taken to task. It's not just a rag tag bunch protesting. I think groups in US/Canada (incl Canadian Govt)/UK involved.
Suraj
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by Suraj »

vijayk wrote:Quick question on this protests

Why does BJP allow these protestors to congregate after Shaheenbagh and Delhi riots? Why can't IB provide this info earlier and thwart these idiots to come in? As soon as they come in Ismalists, Naxals, Commies, CON party and now Sikh extremists and filthy shit from US/Canada start adding fuel to the fire. We have to nip it in the bud. Don't let them in. Is it too difficult?
This isn't the right way to look at the problem. You don't throw the intelligence agencies at what is a rule of law problem. Yes, there may be antinational elements that IB wants to keep track of, but this is a separate matter.

The constitution guarantees the right to protest. However, the constitution also guarantees other rights. Amongst these is the freedom of movement to everyone. In other words, those who block access to parks for the general public are getting in the way of my rights.

In a society based on rule of law, organized protests need a permit from the police and city. The permits enable the city to plan ahead for the congregation and ensure they can provide for emergency vehicle access to anyone who has an accident or feels ill (or is some brainless idiot who is heavily pregnant or brings her infant along, as happened before).

A lot of these problems can be fixed by thinking like a developed society with rules. My fundamental problem with these protests is that it's just a noisy free for all. Even if they have something interesting to say, i'm going to ignore them because they're a massive public nuisance.

A lot of problems can be mitigated with the clear and consistent application of rule of law. For example, parks like any other public space have an occupancy limit. Exceeding this limit is dangerous to human welfare for many reasons - stampede risk, lack of ability to exit easily in case of a hazard, lack of ability to get emergency services in. Permits keep protests from occupying a place longer than permitted.

Of course all these require the clear application of law, not some wild lathicharge that makes for bad optics and simply underscores that the state cannot respond effectively - which is the primary goal of the protests, to undermine the state and demonstrate its weaknesses. Therefore, I would like for the state to have a clear and organized response rather than act in a way that plays into the hands of these protesters. They want to show chaos. The state should not aid that.
OmkarC
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Post by OmkarC »

Santosh wrote:https://www.opindia.com/2020/12/farmer- ... es-hindus/
‘Inki aurate take-take ke bhaw bikti thi’, after justifying death threat to PM Modi, Yuvraj Singh’s father Yograj Singh humiliates Hindus

Govt should make it clear that no one will be allowed to spoil civic atmosphere and create communal disturbance and that any such activity will lead to arrest and imprisonment. These anti-nationals and BIF need to be dealt with tough hand. Leaders should be picked up whenever they give such antinational speech/statements.
Rather than govt taking action against such folks at this time, which will only be portrayed as "government oppression", such statements should be reinforced to Hindu communities throughout the rest of India - South, West, East - and even abroad.

Make sure ordinary people understand the true nature of these racist & sexist Sikh supremacists and the danger they pose to Hindus.
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