2021 Strategic and Political Analysis-1

Cyrano · Post by **Cyrano** » 16 Feb 2022 20:12

If anyone is still believing that these protests were made by few deeply religious teenage girls acting on their own personal religious convictions and saffron response was not necessary, too much, just a piece of cloth on head, then remove bindi too etc...

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 16 Feb 2022 21:09

m_saini wrote:
Cain Marko wrote:To folks who REALLY want to preserve secular ethos and uniform... Why?......
+1
Secularism, and increasingly "democracy", has become a tool for the intolerant to tame the tolerant.

some indications are that

In udupi, one hijab girl is the daughter of a PFI leader and the other is a cousin of a PFI member. No wonder the taliban is supporting them

that also explains the prompt showering of gifts in cash and kind to the girls, to trap other hijabis into emulating such jehadi examples and maybe provoke some sort of violent backlash in local pockets

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 16 Feb 2022 21:32

chetak wrote:
In udupi, one hijab girl is the daughter of a PFI leader and the other is a cousin of a PFI member. No wonder the taliban is supporting them

TIMES NOW
@TimesNow
#Exclusive | #HijabAmbushPlot

- Muskan Khan's father is a PFI district leader, Aliya Assadi's cousin brother also a PFI member.
- Arrested & absconding accused linked to SDPI

Deepak Bopanna & Imran Khan join the broadcast with @PadmajaJoshi

#HijabAppeasementDebate

This is what I have been telling from day one. This burka issue has nothing to do with burka. It has a larger role.

Karnataka congress is working with fire that is sure to burn them just like khilafat movement of Gandhi's congress. These people have different motive. They are least interested in burka or girl education.

Let me take this as an example and clarify Cain Marko Ji acquisition.
Many Muslims took their daughters back home as they told they did not want to send their daughters without burka. They did not protest like the PFI girls, and many did not send them to school. No Muslim has questioned if girls security and consern is so important then why no talk on stopping multiple marriage, halala but want their daughters to wear burka?
This is what I call as "tacit support".

VKumar · Post by **VKumar** » 16 Feb 2022 22:21

Maybe some of this tacit support is a result of intimidation.
They say educate a girl and you educate the family. The nation will have to bear this cost of ignorance.

kit · Post by **kit** » 16 Feb 2022 22:36

https://twitter.com/RanaAyyub/status/14 ... 9043855361

not posting the tweet.. but so inflammatory.. shouldnt some one take twitter to court for allowing this..reported it anyway

m_saini · Post by **m_saini** » 16 Feb 2022 22:43

VKumar wrote:Maybe some of this tacit support is a result of intimidation.
They say educate a girl and you educate the family. The nation will have to bear this cost of ignorance.

The nation has already borne the cost, in '47, and continues to do so. And it isn't even about education, no amount of educated girls could stop the "without ladens" of the world. That community(both male and female) would never bow down to female empowerment, it's just an alien concept to them.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 16 Feb 2022 23:00

Rana Ayub has zero credibility. She’s smarting from the investigation into her financial dealings.

If India were in fact fascist genocidal etc etc, can we hope for her to flee to Pakistan?

That is the only standard of interest to Hindus. I personally think it is not an unreasonable question.

vijayk · Post by **vijayk** » 17 Feb 2022 00:16

Kaivalya · Post by **Kaivalya** » 17 Feb 2022 00:44

Cain Marko wrote:
Kaivalya wrote:
Cainji,

This has been tried over and over again. Notice how you added 3 issues together.

Peacefuls have convinced you that if you intervene there will be dangerous consequences. Till this notion is not fixed, there can be no rationale/dialog/debate etc.

Teaching peacefuls to be peaceful, makes you think that it will be damaging to india's prosperity and rise. Till this threat is removed, there will be no progress.

You objected to sachinji's characterization of abrahamics : When people say, "I have a book, I will not listen to anything anyone else is saying. My interpretation is the only correct thought and no one else in the future can contradict me. The one who gave me the book is the one and only one" - it represents abrahamic thought and leaves no room for discussion hence your conclusion about damage and violence.

Are you sure, you want to keep repeating the same logic used for a long time now and expect different results?
If you think that outside intervention can help the situation, I'm open to that IF pursued correctly. I think it is possible if it is done legally like the 3 talaaq case. Even RJB in the early 80s was palatable to Muslims after the initial ASI report.

My point simply is that surrounding and intimidating a solitary kid or clambering up a flag pole (normally reserved for the tiranga) to hoist the Bhagwa dhwaj, is hardly going to help, and will serve only to provoke unwanted responses. The optics, let alone the ethics, are terrible to say the least.

First step towards outside intervention: we have to stop pandering, special treatment. Public policies like 3t i.e banning burqa etc. Should be enacted into laws

Ignore optics and be decisive when applying law. Just like you mentioned the threat of violence has always been there and will be there in the near future.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 01:47

Kaivalya wrote:Public policies like 3t i.e banning burqa etc. Should be enacted into laws

The problem is 3T is a lot more serious issue. Niqab and Burqa should be banned if not for no other reason than for the security of the students themselves. Why ban hijab though? or bhagwa scarf for that matter.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 01:56

Rudradev wrote:In one Philip K. Dick novel ("Ubik") a character is described as having "a nose like the rubber bulb of a New Delhi taxi horn". I can never look at KCR without thinking of that line.

Just saw very latest video of his rants on WA group. Apt description. He has become an embarrassment to TS folks.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 01:59

madhu wrote: 'We Are A Secular Country; There Is An Effort To Divide The Country By Religion' : Madras HC CJ

The rant CM KCR made in one of the latest videos is exactly this.

Kaivalya · Post by **Kaivalya** » 17 Feb 2022 02:16

Vayutuvan wrote:
Kaivalya wrote:Public policies like 3t i.e banning burqa etc. Should be enacted into laws
The problem is 3T is a lot more serious issue. Niqab and Burqa should be banned if not for no other reason than for the security of the students themselves. Why ban hijab though? or bhagwa scarf for that matter.

Vayutuvanji,

Sometimes these are interchangeably used. I meant and wrote burqa. This has been the Overton window : drama protestors use burqa for tv images, protests etc. But use hijab for spoken words and to present their moderate credentials.

In the continuum, hijab and chador is ok. Niqab and burqa are inhumane imho.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 02:40

Kaivalya wrote:In the continuum, hijab and chador is ok. Niqab and burqa are inhumane imho.

Kaivalya ji,

They are inhumane to you and me and every thinking person. But fundu Mohammadan parents may not care all that much.

On the other hand, they are also a security risk to their daughters or anybody else as well. Anybody with bad intentions would be able to enter "women only" schools/colleges/classrooms/ladies hostels under a niqab/burqa and cause mayhem.

S_Madhukar · Post by **S_Madhukar** » 17 Feb 2022 03:03

Deep Sidhu News even made it to CNN front page! What was he mini-SRK?

Kaivalya · Post by **Kaivalya** » 17 Feb 2022 03:07

^^^

Vayutuvanji,

Absolutely. I understand kind people want to give as much room as possible for religious freedom. The simple fact is : Identity cards simply dont work with niqab/burqa. Corporate environments who need everyone to wear a color coded Id with a picture, passbooks, or exams, hostels like you mention, teachers to know who is sitting in the class, hell...my local train pass used to go with an id.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 03:49

Kaivalya wrote:^^^
... hostels like you mention, teachers to know who is sitting in the class, hell...my local train pass used to go with an id.

The real question is why these parents are acting daft? I don't believe they are that stupid not to understand something as simple as this. The majority of the Muslims may not be expressing their disgust with the loudmouthed politicizers/BIF tools.

The trick is to gain the trust of the silent majority of the minority community. Any PIF govt. has to work towards that final objective. Muslims are a significant minority in India and can't be wished away. If push comes to a shove, a lot of people will die in communal clashes. It might even lead to a civil war of the likes was not seen the entire human history.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 17 Feb 2022 04:25

Vayutuvan wrote:
Kaivalya wrote:^^^
... hostels like you mention, teachers to know who is sitting in the class, hell...my local train pass used to go with an id.
The real question is why these parents are acting daft? I don't believe they are that stupid not to understand something as simple as this. The majority of the Muslims may not be expressing their disgust with the loudmouthed politicizers/BIF tools.

The trick is to gain the trust of the silent majority of the minority community. Any PIF govt. has to work towards that final objective. Muslims are a significant minority in India and can't be wished away. If push comes to a shove, a lot of people will die in communal clashes. It might even lead to a civil war of the likes was not seen the entire human history.

I am afraid there is no silent majority in either izlamist or xtian communities... They are just zombies who get channalised and used by their mullahs or pastors.

In all this, has there been any comments from xtian community? They are in a sizeable numbers throughout coastal belt of DK district.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 17 Feb 2022 04:36

^^ My personal experience after interactions with a couple of Mangalorean xtians have always been that they hate anything Hindu(ism) related. BJP/RSS is their no.1 enemy even above peacefuls. I have to give it to the desert cults how pervasive their paranoia is wrt to pagans and very clear drawn redlines.

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 17 Feb 2022 04:41

vimal: My personal experience after interactions with a couple of Mangalorean xtians have always been that they hate anything Hindu(ism) related

One has to accept the universal supremacy of the christian or muslim god to be one of the "faithful" -- there is no "silent majority" about to work with the majority community, now or ever...doubt that will sink into the heads of the so-called "majority".

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 17 Feb 2022 04:53

Yep. Hindus who think that there is a secularist silent majority amongst the desert cults is living in plain denial.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 17 Feb 2022 04:55

srikandan wrote:
vimal: My personal experience after interactions with a couple of Mangalorean xtians have always been that they hate anything Hindu(ism) related
One has to accept the universal supremacy of the christian or muslim god to be one of the "faithful" -- there is no "silent majority" about to work with the majority community, now or ever...doubt that will sink into the heads of the so-called "majority".

I believe that since britshit times, they have kept Hindus continuously engaged with pata abduls in full limelight, while the suave John's do their dirty work in the background. Both are working with only one aim.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 05:03

You people got me there. Probably there is none. Then we are doomed. Onlee.

ritesh · Post by **ritesh** » 17 Feb 2022 06:10

Vayutuvan wrote:You people got me there. Probably there is none. Then we are doomed. Onlee.

https://twitter.com/JaipurDialogues/sta ... hunn-lHhRg

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 06:48

ritesh wrote:
Vayutuvan wrote:You people got me there. Probably there is none. Then we are doomed. Onlee.
https://twitter.com/JaipurDialogues/sta ... hunn-lHhRg

Ritesh ji,

That tweet just regurgitates what I said before. We are all doomed. Wonlee.. Very fatalistic as opposed to the principle of karma we all believe in, eh?

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 17 Feb 2022 06:53

We are all doomed. Wonlee.. Very fatalistic as opposed to the principle of karma we all believe in, eh?

you are so ***ing clever, vayutuvan ji. Your sarcasm reveals all that facts don't. Really in awe. Hindus believing in karma overrides all the actions and motivations of those who are not hindus. So simple, yet missed by everyone on the planet, except you.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 17 Feb 2022 07:09

srikandan wrote:you are so ***ing clever, vayutuvan ji. Your sarcasm reveals all that facts don't. Really in awe. Hindus believing in karma overrides all the actions and motivations of those who are not hindus. So simple, yet missed by everyone on the planet, except you.

Sire, I am suggesting that we act. Trying to turn the "silent majority of the significant minority" is karma. Tweeting as well as engaging in vigorous tarka is acting too. They are not mutually exclusive nor are the only actions that we can take.

That is the reason why PM Modi ji's slogan in 2019 was sab kaa saath sab kaa vishwas sab kaa vikaas. If events prove him wrong, 2024 will be fought on a different slogan. Hindus are watching (or so one hopes).

srikandan · Post by **srikandan** » 17 Feb 2022 07:24

The brain is just a programmable biological machine. The core of this "faith" business is to assert something that is false, as the foundation of the edifice of the rest of your life. This has far reaching consequences when this becomes a herd/cult that is self-propagating,

Deprogramming is hard. You can try to reason and be rational right upto the point, where your head is gone along with the rest of your thoughts, partway through the conversation. People programmed in this manner will also defend their irrationality quite vigourously, and are also programmed to look down upon you for the lack of such programming. So agree with the karma bit, but cannot be naive about such things.

Don't have any comments on catchy slogans one way or another.

rajsunder · Post by **rajsunder** » 17 Feb 2022 07:34

looks like BJP is making its moves in Maharashtra

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 17 Feb 2022 08:18

Kaivalya wrote: First step towards outside intervention: we have to stop pandering, special treatment. Public policies like 3t i.e banning burqa etc. Should be enacted into laws

sir, the law's are already there in Karnataka. please see the KARNATAKA EDUCATION ACT 1983 page 118,

11. Provision of Uniform, Clothing, Text Books etc.;
(1) Every recognised educational institution may specify its own set of Uniform. Such
uniform once specified shall not be changed within the period of next five years.
(2) When an educational institution intends to change the uniform as specified in subrule (1) above, it shall issue notice to parents in this regard at least one year in
advance.
(3) Purchase of uniform clothing and text books from the school or from a shop etc.,
suggested by school authorities and stitching of uniform clothing with the tailors
suggested by the school authorities, shall be at the option of the student or his
parent. The school authorities shall make no compulsion in this regard.

the uniform was challenged under Art25 in case ofFathima hussain vs bharath edu socity where schools restriction on wearing a scarf or covering head is not violation of Art 25 or quran verse 31.

whereas here head scarf was allowed still 6 to 9 female students wanted black burka. now the lawyers yesterday requested court to allow females to cover head with duppatta.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 17 Feb 2022 08:36

If this is turned into a religious rights taking precedence over Uniform, then all other communities religious rights need to be taken into consideration within school, which will lead to Saraswati and Ganesha pictures and Idols in all classes and classes starting with Saraswati Vandana. Remember this is not about dress code. It's about what religion says. Since each religion says different things and Goddess Saraswati is the Goddess of learning in Hinduism. This will be the equivalent religious rights for Hindus and not saffron shawls.

madhu · Post by **madhu** » 17 Feb 2022 08:54

uddu wrote:If this is turned into a religious rights taking precedence over Uniform, then all other communities religious rights need to be taken into consideration within school, which will lead to Saraswati and Ganesha pictures and Idols in all classes and classes starting with Saraswati Vandana. Remember this is not about dress code. It's about what religion says. Since each religion says different things and Goddess Saraswati is the Goddess of learning in Hinduism. This will be the equivalent religious rights for Hindus and not saffron shawls.

Let me make it clear, i have no idea how law or court works but i am following this very closely so these observations could be wrong.
the way things are going is to allow hijab for Muslim girls and not on a general rule for all people. i have been seeing past 3-4 days lawyers of hijab girls are talking. that too 4 to 6 lawyers have argued. how did these students get money to hire Lawyers?
if hijab is allowed i want naga sadus and digambar monks to attend naked. i am for such a law. the law should also state that Hindu rights in minority institutions should also be upheld. It should not be that only government and Hindu institutions should allow Muslims to wear burka and Christians to come with big cross but Hindus in minority institutions should remove mangalsutra and janayu.

Ambar · Post by **Ambar** » 17 Feb 2022 09:00

vimal wrote:^^ My personal experience after interactions with a couple of Mangalorean xtians have always been that they hate anything Hindu(ism) related. BJP/RSS is their no.1 enemy even above peacefuls. I have to give it to the desert cults how pervasive their paranoia is wrt to pagans and very clear drawn redlines.

Shantidoots and ROLers in Dakshina Kannada have a tactical understanding against hindus that's all but there is no love lost between them. The term "love jihad" was after all coined in this region by ROLers because too many ROL girls were eloping or being blackmailed by shantidoots. In many panchayats in DK the combined population of C+M now exceeds 50% and its only a matter of time before even taluks breach this threshold making it impossible for BJP to win.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Feb 2022 10:41

WRT, BJP in Maharashtra, I am not certain that they will be able to topple the government.

But the show is quite entertaining none the less.

The fear is so thick that I can cut it with a knife.

vimal · Post by **vimal** » 17 Feb 2022 12:28

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 17 Feb 2022 13:45

The hijab issue should be treated as a security issue and an oppression issue. People under 18 are not in a position to decide for themselves, so until 18 years there should be no hijab. France bans hijab in public places for under 18 girls. Also there are movements in other countries for freedom from hijab. They should be taken into consideration.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 17 Feb 2022 13:46

Pratyush wrote:WRT, BJP in Maharashtra, I am not certain that they will be able to topple the government.

But the show is quite entertaining none the less.

The fear is so thick that I can cut it with a knife.

The government wont topple as there is no incentive for anyone to leave the MVA. The Sena (specifically Raut as he and UT’s secretary are the brains) have burnt their bridges. NCP is basically an extortion gang that just happens to be in politics, right now its demands are fulfilled as it has a free reign in the government. The Congress is nowhere as usual. So there is no need for anyone to leave the government unless GoI gets serious goods on NCP players. However even then BJP does not have the cojones to go for the kill, beyond the initial few ED raids.

What is interesting is what happens when SP kicks the bucket or UT does. The latter didn’t look too well at Lata M’s funeral…

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 17 Feb 2022 15:27

Tanaji wrote: What is interesting is what happens when SP kicks the bucket or UT does. The latter didn’t look too well at Lata M’s funeral…

Not so sure about SP kicking the bucket just yet. Guy seems invincible, even to Cancer. What has happened to UT apart from some back issues ?
The Mahavinash Aghadi would not collapse. Infact would continue to be in power for the forseeable future, even beyond 2024.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Feb 2022 15:31

sajo wrote:
Tanaji wrote: What is interesting is what happens when SP kicks the bucket or UT does. The latter didn’t look too well at Lata M’s funeral…
Not so sure about SP kicking the bucket just yet. Guy seems invincible, even to Cancer. What has happened to UT apart from some back issues ?
The Mahavinash Aghadi would not collapse. Infact would continue to be in power for the forseeable future, even beyond 2024.

the jehadis will not be very amenable to the beti bathija succession plan

they will probably split the party or strike out on their own under an almost similar sounding name. They have much already invested in this "cross border" venture

sajo · Post by **sajo** » 17 Feb 2022 15:36

Most of SS (or what will be left out of it once UT fades away) would be absorbed by the NCP. Mrs Sule has a limited hold over some of the more "traditional" NCP elements, especially the builder/land owner lobby, which Ajit Pawar has firmly under his belt. On its own the BJP is spread too thin, I would love to be wrong though. MVA may continue not because they are strong, but save for pockets, BJP may not be able to put up any meaningful fight.
Let Naughty Raut win an election on his own to prove his mettle to the party/electorate first.