Bharat Rakshak

Madhusudhan wrote:Picked up by the Telegraph with all the pompousness and condescension one can expect from them:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... acism.html

How is bring out the overt misbehavior of the diplomutt couple vilification? It was on Facebook for all to see and but for the bringing it out in open would still have been there.
In one way the tumbler account has helped the US embassy clean up its act which is good thing,no?

Or does the writer concur with the views and hence feels its vilification? Maybe he also harbors similar thoughts about India and Indians?

Does he contest the Facebook postings?

How is bring out the overt misbehavior of the diplomutt couple vilification? It was on Facebook for all to see and but for the bringing it out in open would still have been there.

Dean's mission appears to be to minimize what the couple said and blame the people that are bringing this up. He completely misses the fact that the Mays were not tourists, they were diplomats expected to have a sense of decency and a modicum of responsibility about what they say in public about the Country to which they are posted. Can expect similar white-washing responses from any western media that brings this up. Yet another example of why "shared values" and "strategic partnership" are all hot air.

Guys don't demean John "Duke" Wayne. He did try to present the best of Amercian values on film. This guy Wayne May is no Duke but a serf pretending to be a Lord.
He reeks of the Orientalist burden.

Recall Jules Verne's "Around the world in 80 days" where the protoganist has to rescue an Indian damsel in distress just to show his supe'rear'ity?

Folks, if you want to let Dean Nelson what you think about his extremely poor article, please tweet to @delhidean (His twitter handle).

vina wrote:It is perplexing why an average American who would not behave this way back home, morph into something hideous abroad . Maybe it is because only the dregs in America end up in the foreign service in the middle and lower levels ?

That isn't it. Americans are liberal at home and when dealing with other Americans, but are not so when it concerns other countries or foreigners.

rgosain wrote:

ramana wrote:Headley extradition got lost when MKN told the US envoy that it was token for show effort only.

Well it highlights the stupidity of MKN, because the Headley extradition and that of his handler's should now be used as a test of the US reciprocity. What was WM role in getting the extradition lost? The UPA that seized power in 2004 in a colour revolution via EVMs will probably have to burn a lot of files in the coming months.
Were the actions of the SD against DK for show?

It looks like after the 1998 nuke tests the job of Indian NSAs is to stroke the US ego and give them a free pass all the time.All Indian NSAs have been acting as US viceroys in India wrt to US interests.


Brajesh Mishra let Rabinder Singh exfiltrate to US.
MKN did noting about David Headley.
SSM has let the Richards family exfiltrate to US

chetak wrote:

The authorities will have to get a move on quickly.

Can't hold them beyond 90 days without various embassy staff ready to cause grief.

Reason for the interim grant of bail (subsequently cancelled by higher court) was that no charge sheet was filed in 60 days.

They are flight risk and illegal entrant to India, without Visa , can't roam freely hence need to be kept in Jail. I am not sure if US Amby would stand guarantee for them forfeiting her immunity to the Court. Also how would they arrange bail documents.

shades of immunity in egalitarian America

When the International Criminal Court (ICC) Statute came into force on July 1,2002,the US government undertook a massive campaign to get over a hundred foreign governments to sign what have been called ?article 98 agreements? or ?bilateral immunity agreements (BIAs)?. These agreements stipulate that these countries would not send US citizens to the ICC.

Note:No NRIs/PIOs/citizens of other countries were part of this massive campaign.

chetak wrote:The authorities will have to get a move on quickly.

Can't hold them beyond 90 days without various embassy staff ready to cause grief.

Reason for the interim grant of bail (subsequently cancelled by higher court) was that no charge sheet was filed in 60 days.

Charge-sheet was filed on Dec 30: Police file charge-sheet in U.S. ship crew case

China routinely kicks out this type of journalist. Obedience to the big panda official line is demanded and obtained.

Madhusudhan wrote:Folks, if you want to let Dean Nelson what you think about his extremely poor article, please tweet to @delhidean (His twitter handle).

Won't help much sir. You see, as long as it was a diplomatic spat, the UK media appeared balanced and even (slightly) supportive of India (maybe they had been at the receiving end too?). But when the narrative changes to India's perceived ills (cows, dust, Vicks vaporub, whatever), the UK shares the same prejudices as the US. Remember the space program triggering comments in various tabloids about British aid and Indian poverty? Hence the whitewash. Expecting anything else is futile, and I would be very surprised if *any* western publication saw our view on this. Heck, even ToI had to whitewash it a bit (though I will take it any day over not publishing it at all).

Singha wrote:the expellent diplomat was head of the Indi-US anti terrorism co-operation as well!

If suspicions are true that he was the principal in spiriting away of the Richards family, he was more like terrorist in chief.

Vina, George orwell in 1984

“Always there will be the intoxication of power, constantly increasing and constantly growing subtler. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever.”

90% of goras visiting india have the same reaction, why worry?

90% of goras visiting india have the same reaction, why worry?

We really need to differentiate tourist versus diplomat here. When a diplomat is allowed in a Country and granted privileges, there is a modicum of decency and responsibility to how they conduct themselves in Public. Trashing the culture of their host country publicly is unacceptable and any Country with a spine ought to expel such diplomats with no additional reason needed.

I don't care what tourists write on their FB page as long as they spend their money, after all India is a free country....

ramana wrote:

Madhusudhan wrote:Picked up by the Telegraph with all the pompousness and condescension one can expect from them:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... acism.html

How is bring out the overt misbehavior of the diplomutt couple vilification? It was on Facebook for all to see and but for the bringing it out in open would still have been there.
In one way the tumbler account has helped the US embassy clean up its act which is good thing,no?

Or does the writer concur with the views and hence feels its vilification? Maybe he also harbors similar thoughts about India and Indians?

Does he contest the Facebook postings?

Dean is probably just pissed off coz he didn't get his quota of duty-free booze and smuggled hamburgers from the US Embassy this week.

Singha wrote:China routinely kicks out this type of journalist. Obedience to the big panda official line is demanded and obtained.

So Chidananda Rajaghatta living in massa has to call the internet activists Trolls and justify WM and AMM behavious and comments in order to continue getting access to the top levels of massa, but a Dean Nelson, living in New Delhi, has no problems in spouting lies and passing judgement with no fear of losing access to his sources within GoI?

Who is using whom here?

The whole DK incident, and anmol's exposure on racist diplomats can only be good for the Indian minds. Like Theo mentioned several times , we will always remain SDRE in the minds of the white racist west, and to expect implicit parity with them and expecting respect from them is a non-starter. Hope the Indian Babus, Indian population (long way to go), IFS and others understand this clearly. The only way to get parity is to show spine like we showed in this incident and continue to be uncompromising in the pursuit of national interests.

We need to also precipitate incidents that affect them and show proactive inclination to create issues (to be resolved) that make it difficult for them, rather than just being reactive, and acting angry on incidents such as this. That is what will keep them on their toes and force them to be circumspect and careful in matters related to Indian interests.

ManjaM wrote:So Chidananda Rajaghatta living in massa has to call the internet activists Trolls and justify WM and AMM behavious and comments in order to continue getting access to the top levels of massa, but a Dean Nelson, living in New Delhi, has no problems in spouting lies and passing judgement with no fear of losing access to his sources within GoI?

Who is using whom here?

Fantastic observation! We need to learn to make it difficult for them. In this case, our babus, media and socialites should shun the diplomat collectively. But, we have more than enough gora worshippers amongst us in all walks of life, who will be happy to act as a door mat in front of the diplomat's house.

The journalist should lose his access, for being so insensitive to Indians and should be shunned by politicians and fellow journalists.

I know obviously I am dreaming, but nothing of this sort will happen in the present day India.

Lalmohan wrote: 90% of goras visiting india have the same reaction, why worry?

I don’t think this is true at all, at least IME. Large numbers of Americans have visited India esp. now with globalized commerce. Almost ALL my co-workers and most adults I know who work for large corporations have been to India, or atleast Mumbai, Chennai, Bengaluru, type areas. I don’t hear this sort of snotty reaction from them at all. They find the cow situation interesting or humorous not reason to wallop the SDRE. The comments show a certain spitefulness and sense of superiority which you don’t get from the majority of Americans.

The real problem is Neanderthal minority Americans. About 20% IME, maybe 10% or less in West/East coast. This group is co-terminus with the Tea Party nuts. While a small bunch, they are way over represented in the GoTuS circles, INS, Border security, SD, CIA, etc. INS Nebraska in particular used to teem with these types. I remember the first time I went to finger print. The INS lady was finger printing some British guy ahead of me, no gloves. When it came my turn she carefully put on a pair of latex gloves before touching my hand. Something which BTW my midwest born ex-SHQ pointed out to me. I cheerfully put my hand on the finger print scanner and Aaatchoo sneezed all over her white starched shirt and Jacket. Lady went pink. I did not apologize. SHQ & I laughed all the way home. When the white majority actively protects the minority the Neanderthal group is very weak. But in places like the Midwest where the white majority is indifferent to the plight of the minority the Neanderthal 20% make life hell for the different looking folks. I suspect the USA consulates in India were similar. The Americans there undoubtedly were aware of the May’s contempt for India but all remained silent and allowed the May’s to externalize their thinking. With the tragic results we have seen so far. All it takes is one jacka$$ to destroy the life of an SDRE as DK learned the hard way.
-----------------------------------------

BTW why is IFS not ending the domestics import situation. How can this end well. Undoubtedly the entire thing will happen again. Some visa reclassification is not going to stop a recurrence. IFS is being short sighted and self-serving here.

shiv wrote:Helpful suggestion received on email. Someone please forward to the relevant authorities:

Alycia Mays (sh)ould be arrested at the airport on charges of Offending Religious Sensibilities, which is probably a non-bailable offence. Of course her "diplomatic immunity" does not extend to what she posted on FaceBook, so she will have to be sent to the dentist etc to search cavities and see if they can find her brain, and put in Tihar jail pending trial, housed with a few Pakistanis.

Yeah, that should get you some respect. Make sure the American women at the embassy are terrified of you. I'm pretty sure they are on edge right now judging by MS. Johnson FB entrries that was posted here on this thread. They'll be happy in their job to facilitate any cooperation between India and the US that they can. I'm sure. Really.

Just remember, this is a government organization and they over react just like any other government organization such as the post 9-11 homeland security legislation and transportation rules. They are frisking grandmothers in wheelchairs at US airports for chris sakes. So go ahead keep the retaliation innuendo going. It's sure to get you what you want.

So go ahead keep the retaliation innuendo going. It's sure to get you what you want.

Good advice TSJ! US doesn't have to think twice while stripping our diplomats, spewing racist comments all over the internet, and whitewash it with indignation when the natives find out about it. But Indians should shut up, not react and respect the sensitivities of the diplomats, in the hope that they will throw some bone and "get us what we want". Yep. That's the way to go.

Paco gets lot more protein than Mali, "protein quota" needs to be reduced.

Well it is the fault of our democracy not explaining to the world how we would want to define freedom? for cows, animals et al. Not that we may not have corrections everywhere as we advance our society, these are important to convey as we progress. We have to carry our animals, enemies alike owing to our ways of living.

Instead of diplomatic briefing, they better get 101 training in some indic shtyle ashram or village setup to face cows, sheeps, herds, and literally basic living things only to surive. Such a condition training should be required to survive in India. They better be aware. If they go to moon, they can't roam like how they do in washington. If they come to India, they have to know how to be living among with various other living things.

cultural gap or cultural disobeyance? please make them think.

Vina, Chiddu also has done a malafide thing in the past. No need to give him a free pass.
He knows what he did.

rgsrini wrote:

So go ahead keep the retaliation innuendo going. It's sure to get you what you want.

Good advice TSJ! US doesn't have to think twice while stripping our diplomats, spewing racist comments all over the internet, and whitewash it with indignation when the natives find out about it. But Indians should shut up, not react and respect the sensitivities of the diplomats, in the hope that they will throw some bone and "get us what we want". Yep. That's the way to go.

Well then, keep up the good work.

The May couple probably don't throw a bone at the emaciated Indian gardener - he being managed and paid on temp contract , by his contractor, with no benefits and @ less than 10% of the US mainland minimum wage per hour for working in Massa embassy - which is illegal according to Massa laws as Massa embassy itself is legally US territory . That's why they pay the pittance and keep these payments off the books - which is why they have still not given the pay and contract details which GoI demanded almost a month ago till date. This fact alone shows how sincere they are in their "compassion" while exploiting turd world labor.

Vs

The Beefy Pet of the May couple on the otherhand is being fed top bonemeal (probably on a fixed regimen)
+

The fact that they were caught obscenely lampooning the gardeners malnutrished frame compared to their ruddy Dog Pet among their co employees on Facebook.

Further consider below
Massa peoples spending on their Pets topped 61 Billion USD in 2011, (almost 4 times India's spending on PDS for 1.2 Billion people)
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... s-annually

Americans cut back in some types of disposable spending during the nation's financial crisis, but spending on Fido held steady and is picking up again.

It turns out even the deepest recession in decades can't kill off pet spending. A new report from the Labor Department shows that while Americans cut back in some types of disposable spending during the nation's financial crisis, spending on pets held steady and has begun to pick up again.

[RELATED: The 10 Cities With the Highest Pet Spending]

The report shows that Americans spent over $61 billion on their pets in 2011, with the average household spending just over $500 on their pets during the year. That's more than the average household spent on alcohol, men's clothing, or landline telephones. The data show that pet spending hit a peak in 2008, at $571 per household, then dropped off sharply, eventually hitting $480 in 2010. However, spending on Fluffy and Spot as a share of households' total spending picked up slightly during the recession, from 0.9 percent in 2007 to 1.1 percent during the heart of the downturn in 2008 and 2009.

The Labor Department data show that Americans remained selflessly devoted to their pets during the recession, holding their spending on pet food steady through the downturn while cutting back on the luxury of eating out.

A major economic downturn may not dramatically cut pet spending, but having kids does. Single people spent over $400 on average on their pets in 2011, while single-parent households spent two-thirds that. Likewise, husbands and wives with no children at home spent the most on their pets, at nearly $700, while those with the youngest children spent less than 60 percent of that, at just over $400.

The data may also signal fatter times ahead for America's pets. Americans age 55 to 64 spent the most on their pets of any age group, at $636 per year, in 2011. In addition, homeowners spent $653 on average, compared to renters, at $221. With baby boomers entering retirement and a housing recovery in place, that may mean the population willing to spend big on their animals is about to grow.

It reveals a dysfunctionally individualistic and consumeristic society supplanting their lack of intimate human company (in old age or otherwise) with their rising dependence on deaf and dumb creatures .

Best example of such extreme Dog goneness is also seen in one @CChristinefair motorma , mileage may vary in individual cases.

Expelled U.S. official found Delhi life distressing

Wayne May, U.S. Embassy official expelled by India for his hand in the Devyani Khobragade case, had a distaste for all developing countries where he was posted over the past two decades, it emerged from an interview he gave some years ago.

The two-page interview, given after Mr. May took up his latest job here with the Bureau of Diplomatic Security, a wing of the U.S. Department of State, deals mainly with his views on the role of his organisation and experience of serving abroad. {So he was with BDS, wonder why they need 200 goons on premises}

Mr. May found his posting in India distressing. Challenges of living in New Delhi’s Lutyen zone included unhealthy living conditions brought about by the threat of disease and sickness, bad traffic and “everything else that one would associate with a developing country with a population of over 1.2 billion.”

The official had also to cope with “professional challenges” such as the threat of terrorism, both domestic and transnational, and high crime levels. {I suppose this dude was patrolling the streets in his armoured Humvee/Chevy Tahoe}

It was the high crime levels he cites in New Delhi that also distressed him during his four years in Niamey, capital of Niger. Apart from unhealthy living conditions and dire poverty, the high level of crime made Americans inviting targets for the “poor citizen of Niger.”

Bogota, capital of Colombia, too was a distressing assignment because “it was quite possible to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and be victimised by the narco traffickers because you worked with the U.S. government.”

Developed countries like Singapore and Greece also stressed Mr. May. Singapore was a “non-challenging tour” as the country was “modern, efficient and safe.” But some of the challenges were weather and the fact that “Singapore is an island and island fever can develop quickly.” Add to these the fact that it takes over 26 hours to get back to the U.S., he told Monitor , a magazine brought out by an American university where his daughter was a student. {Basically, this douche doesn't like any place other than home/places similar to home. Why the heck does he not stay there then?}

Greece had the official trying to fend off attacks from N-17, a Marxist urban guerrilla group, and its offshoots. {Come on, this is the Greece, the origin of civilization to most Americans - surely he can't have said that?}

The magazine portrays Mr. May for the most part as among the men guarding the American ramparts at all hours by depicting him as being “on the front lines.” {Lutyen's Delhi, yeah right, where one has to fight for survival trying to navigate numerous roundabouts and crescent shaped roads}

His daughter Brianna May is more charitable about India. Interviewed by the same magazine about a fortnight before her father expressed his views about India, Ms. May felt nostalgic about the country. {Gosh, we are supposed to feel good about this, like making up for the father's views!}

“I love the atmosphere — the crazy, random, eventful days where you can literally see almost anything you want like camels and elephants on the streets. It’s definitely a stark change from Williamsburg,” she told the interviewer.

She reveals that Mr. May once helped her catch stray dogs around her house for neutering.{Is this legal - doesn't this violate Indian animal rights?}

Anyone seen the movie Vishwaroopam? There is the FBI dude who arrests Kamal Hassan - this article reminds me of that guy

I would not normally give credence to a college journal, but many of those who work at such places end up writing the WSJ/WaPo/NYT (add your pick) tomorrow. Point being, this narrative of India is not going to change for a long time. Only way to counter it is with our own new outlets that aggressively broadcast to the world. Even tiny Qatar can show the way.

Singha wrote:and finally
[img]Ayub%20with%20Jacky%20(erstwhile)%20Kennedy[/img]

[OT]I am not sure why everybody thinks this woman is a knock-out. Her competition (Marilyn Monroe) was/is a dream girl.[/OT]

Singha wrote:todays print edition of India today has this on the inside page. our senior officials read no fb, but they read TOI for sure over their morning beverage.... The biggest irony: Alicia Muller May is the US embassy's community liaison officer.

I am not sure that "Community Liaison Officer" refers to the larger Indian community. I suspect it refers to the "Diplomatic/Expat" community.

On another note, I would like to ask whether the mods whether it might make sense to hive off this DK and aftermath subject into a separate thread that is titled appropriately.

My reasoning is simply that we risk losing whatever nuggets of insight we collectively bring to the US-India relationship. The DK episode and detail is drowning out all other angles and perspectives.

Just a thought

“I love the atmosphere — the crazy, random, eventful days where you can literally see almost anything you want like camels and elephants on the streets. It’s definitely a stark change from Williamsburg,” she told the interviewer.

Yes Williamsburg, that would be the home of William and Mary College, the shirt with the college logo that William May was wearing in the photo posted on this thread, news to Phillip.

Cosmo_R wrote:

Singha wrote:todays print edition of India today has this on the inside page. our senior officials read no fb, but they read TOI for sure over their morning beverage.... The biggest irony: Alicia Muller May is the US embassy's community liaison officer.

I am not sure that "Community Liaison Officer" refers to the larger Indian community. I suspect it refers to the "Diplomatic/Expat" community

I suspect you may be right.

One should ask the Hindu 'special' correspondent where he got the original link to May interview?


----------------
So she might have been doing her job soliciting customers for her friend selling pearls and the hamburgler?

Her rank is First Secretary, US Embassy.

ramana wrote:One should ask the Hindu 'special' correspondent where he got the original link to May interview?


----------------
So she might have been doing her job soliciting customers for her friend selling pearls and the hamburgler?

Her rank is First Secretary, US Embassy.

First Secretary in a large embassy is a pretty high ranking. She ain't cheap.

But her FB posts are.

TSJones wrote:

ramana wrote:One should ask the Hindu 'special' correspondent where he got the original link to May interview?


----------------
So she might have been doing her job soliciting customers for her friend selling pearls and the hamburgler?

Her rank is First Secretary, US Embassy.

First Secretary in a large embassy is a pretty high ranking. She ain't cheap.

That proves that you can take a woman out of her ghetto(or trailer trash in this case) but you can't take the trailer trash out of her

Through and through American.

Dean Nelson appears to be under the impression that these are private messages that were somehow hacked. I pointed out to him that this was a public profile and these diplomats were careless at a minimum in a twitter exchange with him.

^^^ Is that Briturd living under a rock that he doesn't recognise the FB background ???

putnanja wrote:

TSJones wrote: quote=ramana One should ask the Hindu 'special' correspondent where he got the original link to May interview?


----------------
So she might have been doing her job soliciting customers for her friend selling pearls and the hamburgler?

Her rank is First Secretary, US Embassy. quote

First Secretary in a large embassy is a pretty high ranking. She ain't cheap.

That proves that you can take a woman out of her ghetto(or trailer trash in this case) but you can't take the trailer trash out of her

Putnanja ji,
we will be wagoning circles in Massa palm if we only equate this hateful behaviour to so called "Trailer trash" or "Hillbillies" or "Redneckia" or "Racist bad bad South" - these are all figments created by mainstream Massa marketing industry - which paints these folks(many are decent) as such and conveniently hang all the racist bigotry around their necks (as a part of their post civil war "reconciliation" still being enforced on defeated south).

All the evil of Boston brahmins like Kerry etal and the human rights-leftlibs types from North who man(or woman) these state department orgs and who were vigorously +1 ing these hateful comments will escape reproach.

The Pic shows Indians are new "Porch Monkeys" aside to their PetDogs when it comes to 1st Secy level US Diplomats