2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
The government must go on a media blitz to reach out to farmers in all other states explaining them (a) How the bills benefits most if not all farmers and (b) How Punjab has benefited from years of FCI procurement at MSP at the cost of other states. Politically there is nothing to lose here because BJP has no base in Punjab and won't have one anytime soon. As much as i want the government to take off its gloves and go after these thugs blocking Delhi, it is exactly the opportunity the BIF is looking for. It should be dragged as long as possible so these clowns realize the days of blackmailing and rioting for everything are gone and the country cannot be held at ransom.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
even shaheenbagh did not have the kind of support that these guys have now, meaning the congis, kejriwal and amarinder singh's gang apart from the BIF.Pratyush wrote:This post is directed at those who think that the farmers with the specific demands will win.
I don't think that the farmers and the people behind have any clue about the decision making process of the government.
If the demand had any merit, the entire country would be in a state of farmers unrest.
It's not.
That alone is the proof that this agitation has no broad based support.
In this scenario, expecting the government of India to cave in is unreasonable.
They are quite well placed to deal with this situation have faith.
Remember that the top players in this government have faced off against the might of the UPA from 2004 to 2014.
They have also faced off against the night of TSP and China in the last few years.
They are not going to back down.
nationally, even shaheenbagh had only sporadic support but they caused mayhem
funding is more covert with the "farmers" saying that they have brought their "own food and rations"
They still need huge infrastructure of toilets, water and electricity and fresh veggies and cooking gas.
this time around the communication is mostly by word of mouth rather than heavy dependency on whatsapp or whatever.
cash is being funnelled in to support the crowds.
the govt machinery is as prosaic as ever otherwise, immediately after shaheenbagh, the govt would have set up strong procedures to prevent road/rail blockages and ensure the flow of commodities for daily usage.
the word "farmer" is enough to scare any govt in India into going slow and handling the situation with kid gloves.
all these factors have been configured into shaheenbagh-2 to try and ensure that the govt is forced into precipitating a catastrophe that benefits the BIF
shaheenbagh 1 & 2 are both looking like intelligence failures
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
this is the best advice
Arvind Panagariya@APanagariya · Dec 9
How should the government respond to the farmer protests? Ideally, it should not respond at all. This is a reform with much upside and no downside for the farmer. Also, any rollback will only encourage vested interests to rise up against other reforms.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
That is not possible when the roads to the capital city are blocked..
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Manish_P wrote:That is not possible when the roads to the capital city are blocked..
Any reaction to this will be disastrous. Let them stay for as long as they want. In the end they will become irrelevant and make no difference to the situation as it will stand.
People worry about sheenbagh. Without realising that it accomplished nothing. In other words. The people who were determined to be offended by the Modi government were offended by the Modi government. Rest of the country kept going.
The same applies to the "farmers". It will make no difference whatsoever.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
I get the feeling that the farmers are going to precipitate a riot to get attention. It's winter in Dilli and sitting on the roads forever is not going to get them anything. GoI should also investigate who is funding all of this. This ain't cheap.
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KJo wrote:I get the feeling that the farmers are going to precipitate a riot to get attention. It's winter in Dilli and sitting on the roads forever is not going to get them anything. GoI should also investigate who is funding all of this. This ain't cheap.
I would say drag it out., as you said the clowns will be itching to riot than sitting in the cold., so good idea to prepare for that eventuality.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
There were raids at PFI offices all across India. So GoI knows who the financiers are. They were the financiers at Shaheen Bagh as well. KL is one route by which lots of funds were siphoned in. GoI can actually do a wait & watch. Just allow the 'farmers' to stay put where ever they are. But looks like the 'farmers' also know that they will be ignored for good. So they will continue to try provoking by blocking roads, rioting or force the police to fire at them. The 'farmers' now really want 'martyrs' and sooner or later they will get/make one.KJo wrote: GoI should also investigate who is funding all of this. This ain't cheap.
GoI on the other hand has to work towards winning the confidence of farming communities all across India, especially in states where the middle men from Punjab come to purchase rice & wheat. Set up procuring centres in these places - for a trial - at a higher rate than MSP. There is no rule that FCI has to procure rice & wheat only from Punjab. If these people are making money by buying rice & wheat at cheap rates and then selling them at MSP to GoI establishments like FCI; cut the source of their procurement.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Thanks for asking. I believe the government has addressed the short comings in the last written proposal. The time now is to address the political side of the current troubles and get it's message across:venkat_kv wrote:ManSingh Saar,ManSingh wrote:
I would not know the right answer to your question. I guess with removal of restrictions as to where you can sell crops from the protected list, what you are asking may be possible.
i would like to know your views on how to solve this issue. its quite obvious that you are quite passionate about the Punjab/farmer agriculture related issues. What would your proposal approach that can solve lot of the issues of all the farmers and not just Punjab vs rest of India farmers, that seems to be going on in the outskirts of Delhi.
Also how would you suggest a resolution to the stubble issue/burning to alleviate it?
thanks
- The central government is handicapped to play politics in either of the two states. In Punjab it is a non-NDA government and in Haryana, there is a punjabi CM ( in Haryana punjabi means non-farmer ).
- It would have to use local leadership to get the message across. In my opinion, the best person to do this in Punjab would be capt. Amrinder Singh and the Chautala(s) in Haryana. They both seem amenable to centre's latest offer and should be put to good use.
- At some point, the government would have to engineer a split in the leadership of the current protests. This was about economic grievances as introduced by the new farm bills. It is not about a commie revolution. Leftist leaders like Hannan Mollah should have no further role to play.
- Stubble burning : The economics of removing stubble do not work. Either cutting-edge agri practices like zero-tillage have to be introduced or a pool of agri equipment( state govt. owned) that minces stubble into the soil will have to be created.
Beyond your question:
- A lot many have commented about saving face for the government and that this would be unprecedented for the current government. This is not true. Land Reform bills amendment 2015 is still pending for approval in Rajya Sabha and the ordinance prior to the law was allowed to lapse. This was in the face of protests at that time, again on the topic of farm and land.
- Where does the distrust of the government on land reforms and hatred against large firms come from. The below is a quote from CAG:
"“Acquisition of land from the public by the government is proving to be a major transfer of wealth from the rural populace to the corporate world.”
This is from past SEZ experiences and major beneficiaries were Essar/RIL in those cases.
Edited/Added later: To be fully fair, there is no major instance of corruption against the current government. But there is apprehension that this govt is not going to be there forever.
- The amendments proposed like civil courts, allowing state governments to register contracts and private mandi etc are to the benefit of all.
I think grievances wise, there should not be any remaining after the latest proposal.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
the land reforms sabotage was a landmine left behind by the sonia sena to ensure that Modi faced huge difficulties in getting land in sufficient quantities to rapidly accelerate industrialization and job creations.
It was a petty, vengeful and deliberately malevolent act and shows the crassness of the mafia famiglia.
It was a petty, vengeful and deliberately malevolent act and shows the crassness of the mafia famiglia.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
There are many more battles to fight in future. Showing any weakness would be a mistake. Modi has spent some time in Punjab so to think that he doesn't know what he's doing is false thinking. His decision making is for the betterment of whole India. Just like demonetization and GJ angle vs the betterment of whole country.
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what is there to talk about.
the ones actively agitating are the ones who are the most privileged and their day jobs pay even more in commissions


the ones actively agitating are the ones who are the most privileged and their day jobs pay even more in commissions
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
https://twitter.com/drapr007/status/1336986904999260167
check the video... same characters .... same scums of CAA

check the video... same characters .... same scums of CAA

Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
The average salary of a clerk in India (the lowest govt position in govt of India) is Rs 360,000 or about 30,000.
https://www.glassdoor.co.in/Salaries/in ... KO6,11.htm . Corporate lowest salary average is also roughly around the same.
For that salary the govt clerk goes to office around 9.30-10 followed by 30 mins coffee/breakfast break then later on 1-2 hrs lunch break. That will followed by 30 mins tea/gossip break and by 4.30-5.00 he is itching to go out. Everyone knows their productivity. They are guaranteed regular salary, vacation, pension healthcare etc.
The highest avg farmer salary going by a above post is Rs18,000. The all india average is pathetic Rs5000 something. For this the farmer takes numerous risks, wakes up at 3 am does backbreaking work and has to market his produce. The only guarantee he has after successfully dodging those risks and grain produced is MSP.
This being the scenario what kind of a person will taunt a farmer with that pay and say "why do you need so much?". Will these people ever go to their relatives in govt and corporate sector and say "hey your salary should vary month by month based on market or govt tax collections and your constantly varying performance indicators. You should never be guarenteed any income , no vacation or healthcare and you should be prepared for the market". The hatred is unbeleivable.
If you want 50 percent of population (almost the poorest section) to live with no guarantees, hand on stomach - not knowing whether they will have enough to eat depending on rains, future prices, market demand prices , international competition then you are literally a horrible person.
No other country would talk about their farmers like this.
https://www.glassdoor.co.in/Salaries/in ... KO6,11.htm . Corporate lowest salary average is also roughly around the same.
For that salary the govt clerk goes to office around 9.30-10 followed by 30 mins coffee/breakfast break then later on 1-2 hrs lunch break. That will followed by 30 mins tea/gossip break and by 4.30-5.00 he is itching to go out. Everyone knows their productivity. They are guaranteed regular salary, vacation, pension healthcare etc.
The highest avg farmer salary going by a above post is Rs18,000. The all india average is pathetic Rs5000 something. For this the farmer takes numerous risks, wakes up at 3 am does backbreaking work and has to market his produce. The only guarantee he has after successfully dodging those risks and grain produced is MSP.
This being the scenario what kind of a person will taunt a farmer with that pay and say "why do you need so much?". Will these people ever go to their relatives in govt and corporate sector and say "hey your salary should vary month by month based on market or govt tax collections and your constantly varying performance indicators. You should never be guarenteed any income , no vacation or healthcare and you should be prepared for the market". The hatred is unbeleivable.
If you want 50 percent of population (almost the poorest section) to live with no guarantees, hand on stomach - not knowing whether they will have enough to eat depending on rains, future prices, market demand prices , international competition then you are literally a horrible person.
No other country would talk about their farmers like this.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Given that MSP only exists on 20 crops and is not legally binding even before the new acts, why do you think this is a guarantee? What has changed after the acts in this regard especially given the written assurances provided by the government in recent meeting?The only guarantee he has after successfully dodging those risks and grain produced is MSP.
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Trouble with generalizations like above is that one assumes all produce is covered by MSP, where as only 22 crops are covered by MSP the benefits of which goes to mere 6% of the farming population. A paddy farmer or wheat farmer or lentil farmer benefits from an MSP that pays anywhere 20% to 40% over the international market prices, where as a tomato farmer or a coconut farmer or beets farmer and 94% other farmers like them solely rely on the market forces. That said, the government did not touch the current MSP in the bills and now they have even agreed (and foolishly in my opinion) to add the MSP guarantee . If after 73 yrs the income of a farmer has trailed the average income of non-farming population but the average real food inflation over the past 15 yrs is somewhere around 25%-30% p.a. then maybe its time to unregulate and let the farmers enjoy the direct benefits of free market.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
^Above post of KiranA is mostly rhetoric and only value one can get out of above is that there should be less of babu clerk class and more of entrepreneurial class . One can apply the same rhetoric to a soldier, police, trader, doctor and everyone else outside of the babu clerk set.
BTW, I am also a farmer and KiranA'ji, can you please send me your entire pay check to support for next 3 years. I am planning a system to grow pomegranates organically with zero waste process and using green compost from residential homes. Something like a urban organic farm on roof tops for pomegranates. It is a lucrative cash crop.
Now coming back to the farm laws, this is a must read article https://swarajyamag.com/politics/farmer ... e-deadlock
In nutshell, the farmers need to kick out the following from their protests:
1. CONgoons, Commies and Tukde-tukde gang (Eg. Rahul Gandhi, YoYa and the naxal poets in hospitals)
2. Khalistanis (Eg. All the sikhs from kanuckistan, yuba city and fUK)
3. Rabble rousers who talk about murdering PM and consider Hindu women for sale (Eg. Yuvraj Singh's paterfamilias)
Second, farmers can look at the proposals by GOI, viz (from above article):
1. written assurance that minimum support price (MSP) regime will continue,
2. states can be made to register private buyers and cess can be charged from them like Agricultural Produce Market Committee (APMC) mandis,
3. reassurance that private players can’t take over land of farmers they are contracting with, f
4. further clarification that contractors can’t take mortgage on farm lands if they are constructing on it and they can’t maintain possession of the construction and
5. giving choice to farmers to approach civil courts in case of disputes.
And Modi should go and announce that currently we are spending 1.8 Lakh Crore rupees on MSP and it will be drawn down to just 36,000 Crore. An average of Rs. 1000 Crore to each state and union territories. The remaining will be borne by the state to support its own farmers (fishermen etc). Let the state take the burden.
The remaining 1.44 lakh crore will be given out to all farmers as a monthly dole. That should increase their payout to ~Rs. 16k per year. Along with other JAM and PDS support, this will act as minimum support for the farmers and a good vote catch.
Mansingh'ji, the perception is gaining quickly that the protest is more a zamindari protest. If it is genuine, then please kick out the 3 categories of people highlighted above.
BTW, I am also a farmer and KiranA'ji, can you please send me your entire pay check to support for next 3 years. I am planning a system to grow pomegranates organically with zero waste process and using green compost from residential homes. Something like a urban organic farm on roof tops for pomegranates. It is a lucrative cash crop.
Now coming back to the farm laws, this is a must read article https://swarajyamag.com/politics/farmer ... e-deadlock
In nutshell, the farmers need to kick out the following from their protests:
1. CONgoons, Commies and Tukde-tukde gang (Eg. Rahul Gandhi, YoYa and the naxal poets in hospitals)
2. Khalistanis (Eg. All the sikhs from kanuckistan, yuba city and fUK)
3. Rabble rousers who talk about murdering PM and consider Hindu women for sale (Eg. Yuvraj Singh's paterfamilias)
Second, farmers can look at the proposals by GOI, viz (from above article):
1. written assurance that minimum support price (MSP) regime will continue,
2. states can be made to register private buyers and cess can be charged from them like Agricultural Produce Market Committee (APMC) mandis,
3. reassurance that private players can’t take over land of farmers they are contracting with, f
4. further clarification that contractors can’t take mortgage on farm lands if they are constructing on it and they can’t maintain possession of the construction and
5. giving choice to farmers to approach civil courts in case of disputes.
And Modi should go and announce that currently we are spending 1.8 Lakh Crore rupees on MSP and it will be drawn down to just 36,000 Crore. An average of Rs. 1000 Crore to each state and union territories. The remaining will be borne by the state to support its own farmers (fishermen etc). Let the state take the burden.
The remaining 1.44 lakh crore will be given out to all farmers as a monthly dole. That should increase their payout to ~Rs. 16k per year. Along with other JAM and PDS support, this will act as minimum support for the farmers and a good vote catch.
Mansingh'ji, the perception is gaining quickly that the protest is more a zamindari protest. If it is genuine, then please kick out the 3 categories of people highlighted above.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
kiranA wrote:The average salary of a clerk in India (the lowest govt position in govt of India) is Rs
Of late what are you smoking

Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
No, you missed my thrust of the post. It shows the vulnerability of average indian farmer and the thought of making him even more vulnerable by removing or setting a path for eventual removal of even paltry benefits is simply unacceptable.disha wrote:^Above post of KiranA is mostly rhetoric and only value one can get out of above is that there should be less of babu clerk class and more of entrepreneurial class . One can apply the same rhetoric to a soldier, police, trader, doctor and everyone else outside of the babu clerk set.
.
Main thrust is in these lines " you want 50 percent of population (almost the poorest section) to live with no guarantees, hand on stomach - not knowing whether they will have enough to eat depending on rains, future prices, market demand prices , international competition ".
I used govt employment as a compare and contrast scenario.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
The protests overseas make that amply clear. Land reforms are a state subject, however Central government should offer Punjab and Haryana incentives to initiate land reforms to devolve land to laborers. Fixing the income tax code to bring landlords living overseas into the tax net is another option.disha wrote:the perception is gaining quickly that the protest is more a zamindari protest.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
I agree with you. I have mentioned the same in my previous post as well.disha wrote:
Mansingh'ji, the perception is gaining quickly that the protest is more a zamindari protest. If it is genuine, then please kick out the 3 categories of people highlighted above.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
A simple change of law barring NRIs with citizenship or permanent residency in a foreign country from owning land in India should solve a lot of issues.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Its already there. A foreign citizen can only own a house. Not land. Especially a Farm Land.vimal wrote:A simple change of law barring NRIs ..... lot of issues.
The issue gets complicated with Inheritance. Add to it, all the options available thru backdoor channels and Benami purchases.
Then again, if we really clean up the land and property ownership laws, the first people out of business would be dirty - politicians, bureaucrats, cops etc
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Wonder if they will still hang around if covid-19 starts ravaging the gherao.chetak wrote:this is the best advice
Arvind Panagariya@APanagariya · Dec 9
How should the government respond to the farmer protests? Ideally, it should not respond at all. This is a reform with much upside and no downside for the farmer. Also, any rollback will only encourage vested interests to rise up against other reforms.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
The agitation is turning into a joke. Yesterday the BMTC/KSRTC transport organization employees joined the protest to demand making them govt employees. Today private doctors are joining them. Everyone who wants to do a dharna is joining the protest with their own demands knowing very well that the govt would not lathi charge a farmer agitation. I think it a time for the silent majority to start a dharna against these people and chase them out of the roads.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Non residents, Indian or PIO's are not permitted to hold, trade, or lease agricultural land. Merits of legalising it can be discussed if there is any information in the public domain of the scale of informal arrangements between land owners, arthiyas, and the 'farmer'.vera_k wrote:The protests overseas make that amply clear. Land reforms are a state subject, however Central government should offer Punjab and Haryana incentives to initiate land reforms to devolve land to laborers. Fixing the income tax code to bring landlords living overseas into the tax net is another option.disha wrote:the perception is gaining quickly that the protest is more a zamindari protest.
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Chetak Saar,chetak wrote:even shaheenbagh did not have the kind of support that these guys have now, meaning the congis, kejriwal and amarinder singh's gang apart from the BIF.Pratyush wrote:This post is directed at those who think that the farmers with the specific demands will win.
I don't think that the farmers and the people behind have any clue about the decision making process of the government.
Remember that the top players in this government have faced off against the might of the UPA from 2004 to 2014.
They have also faced off against the night of TSP and China in the last few years.
They are not going to back down.
nationally, even shaheenbagh had only sporadic support but they caused mayhem
the word "farmer" is enough to scare any govt in India into going slow and handling the situation with kid gloves.
all these factors have been configured into shaheenbagh-2 to try and ensure that the govt is forced into precipitating a catastrophe that benefits the BIF
shaheenbagh 1 & 2 are both looking like intelligence failures
the shaheenbagh1 and shaheenbagh2 differs in one small aspect. the shaeenbagh1 had a pan india ropers addressing crowds all over and trying to whip them into frenzy (Mumbai, MP, Hyderabad, Kerala, Karnataka) though only the capital saw the brunt of their riots. the shaheenbagh in contrast seems to be concentrated in only Punjab, haryana and pockets of UP though the people of Delhi are caught in this again.
As someone also mentioned a bigscale violence will probably not happen as the people of Delhi are having a fairly large scale Sikh population intermixed with everyone else unlike last time where the communities are separated by lanes or mohallas.
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Sachin Saar,Sachin wrote:There were raids at PFI offices all across India. So GoI knows who the financiers are. They were the financiers at Shaheen Bagh as well. KL is one route by which lots of funds were siphoned in. GoI can actually do a wait & watch. Just allow the 'farmers' to stay put where ever they are. But looks like the 'farmers' also know that they will be ignored for good. So they will continue to try provoking by blocking roads, rioting or force the police to fire at them. The 'farmers' now really want 'martyrs' and sooner or later they will get/make one.KJo wrote: GoI should also investigate who is funding all of this. This ain't cheap.
GoI on the other hand has to work towards winning the confidence of farming communities all across India, especially in states where the middle men from Punjab come to purchase rice & wheat. Set up procuring centres in these places - for a trial - at a higher rate than MSP. There is no rule that FCI has to procure rice & wheat only from Punjab. If these people are making money by buying rice & wheat at cheap rates and then selling them at MSP to GoI establishments like FCI; cut the source of their procurement.
the govt doesn't need to give the farmers more than MSP. if earlier reports of middlemen buying them from UP are true then they would have payed 1100-1200 and got paid MSP in Punjab at 1800 odd. the govt can get the farmers around 1500 to show good increases or maybe even at 1800 and then middlemen probably won't have enough margin to take the grain from UP to certify it for MSP.
but i do agree that the current steps are just the beginning for the govt to engage the farmers/farmer organisations in the country and try to get them better prices.
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Foreign citizens can hold agricultural land if it was inherited. Scale of this pattern of ownership seems quite large given the large protests outside India.mmasand wrote:Non residents, Indian or PIO's are not permitted to hold, trade, or lease agricultural land.
This article from the Indian Express posted earlier in the thread has more detail.
Direct benefit transfer: Whose crop?
NRIs guide to deal with inherited property
the current system, where the Food Corporation of India and state agencies undertake grain procurement through arhatiyas (commission agents) in APMC mandis, works better for landless tenant farmers.
They represent an estimated 30-35% of Punjab’s farmers who cultivate land belonging to others that include government employees, NRIs and permanent urban residents within and outside the state.
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maybe, he has only leased or rented the farmhouse.Mukhi wrote:Its already there. A foreign citizen can only own a house. Not land. Especially a Farm Land.vimal wrote:A simple change of law barring NRIs ..... lot of issues.
The issue gets complicated with Inheritance. Add to it, all the options available thru backdoor channels and Benami purchases.
Then again, if we really clean up the land and property ownership laws, the first people out of business would be dirty - politicians, bureaucrats, cops etc
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why should the salary and employment of 50% of the population be guaranteed? that too by the other 50%? for doing what? if so much the produce from these farmers is only ending up rotting, why should anyone pay for that?kiranA wrote: No, you missed my thrust of the post. It shows the vulnerability of average indian farmer and the thought of making him even more vulnerable by removing or setting a path for eventual removal of even paltry benefits is simply unacceptable.
Main thrust is in these lines " you want 50 percent of population (almost the poorest section) to live with no guarantees, hand on stomach - not knowing whether they will have enough to eat depending on rains, future prices, market demand prices , international competition ".
I used govt employment as a compare and contrast scenario.
if thats case, why shouldnt govt guarantee everyone a guarantee to live with? I am not a govt clerk and my salary is not guaranteed. if I miss work, that is recorded against my productivity.
until the same guarantee is given to everyone else, why should one section of the society bear the other even when they are healthy and have sane minds?
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KiranA, what do you think are problematic in this farmers bill, atleast from your prespective as a farmer from coastal Andhra. as far as I can see it only allows farmers to sell outside the mandis, a large number already seem to do and it has made the activity fully legal from any state repercussions. the farmer can enter in a contract for his produce before hand, so if he was paying some commission and selling in the mandi, now can do the same by entering into a contract.kiranA wrote:No, you missed my thrust of the post. It shows the vulnerability of average indian farmer and the thought of making him even more vulnerable by removing or setting a path for eventual removal of even paltry benefits is simply unacceptable.disha wrote:^Above post of KiranA is mostly rhetoric and only value one can get out of above is that there should be less of babu clerk class and more of entrepreneurial class . One can apply the same rhetoric to a soldier, police, trader, doctor and everyone else outside of the babu clerk set.
.
Main thrust is in these lines " you want 50 percent of population (almost the poorest section) to live with no guarantees, hand on stomach - not knowing whether they will have enough to eat depending on rains, future prices, market demand prices , international competition ".
I used govt employment as a compare and contrast scenario.
so i don't see what is the problem, this when then united Andhra Pradesh had a very high number of farmer deaths about a decade ago in the 2006-2014 time frame.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Video is in Hindi but explains the issue with APMC and other procurement process very well.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
This is what Pappu shared on facebook. Of course he has decided to blur the image to hide the true picture of the farmers of India.

The farmer wants his income to be as much as the farmers of Punjab.
Modi government wants the income of all the farmers of the country to be as much as the farmers of Bihar.

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I am an PIO and own inherited land in Kutch. Which is allowed. But I can't buy new land. Have given some of my land near the village (more like town) charity to support the PM Awaz Yogana project . However, there are many PIOs who have inherited farms but also bought new farms. I think there are simply no check or checks subverted to verify that they are PIOs. In very rare cases, some very rich NRIs has even created a family history of legal documents to claim farming lineage and buy farmland. Though this requires huge backhander to be given.chetak wrote:maybe, he has only leased or rented the farmhouse.Mukhi wrote:
Its already there. A foreign citizen can only own a house. Not land. Especially a Farm Land.
The issue gets complicated with Inheritance. Add to it, all the options available thru backdoor channels and Benami purchases.
Then again, if we really clean up the land and property ownership laws, the first people out of business would be dirty - politicians, bureaucrats, cops etc
Not a single farmer I know support is against the farm bills. Besides, most farmers grow pulses or cash crops like castor, dates and vegetables. They are doing quite well. As Kutch is flooded with cash from overseas PIOs/NRIs. Especially from my Patel community. Many farmers have a main business not linked to farming and rent out the farms. Of course it is handy to have a farms to siphon off business income as farming income and save on tax. Rich farmers really need to be taxed.
Last edited by vhirani on 11 Dec 2020 20:08, edited 2 times in total.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
A citizen of a foreign country cannot be an NRI in the first place.vimal wrote:A simple change of law barring NRIs with citizenship or permanent residency in a foreign country from owning land in India should solve a lot of issues.
As for permanent residents of other countries, they are Indian citizens with all the same rights as any other Indian. There is no way you can ban an Indian from owning land.
I have reported your post.
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KiranA's post is more of emotional rant and blackmail of poor farmer victimhood.
We still have a huge population of small time farmers. Most all countries have at one time had majority of its population into farming and food production. Times have changed and it dropped from 50+% to even as low as 1%.
Today i see many folks around who r doing IT, research and other professional jobs but their parents continue farming. Maybe it is their last generation into farming.
The question to ask is why we are pushing 50% population to engage in menial and hard farming jobs and have them be at mercy of govt and mother nature? The unnecessarily very high % of farmers is continued thru constant psychological fear (loss of land, livelihood and loss of pride in working under private enterprise for someone else). It is obvious who is playing this game
Lets not use farmers and exploit them as political pawns and make agriculture an avenue for corruption.
Support and empower the farmers. Instead of Adani why not group of farmers pool together and form their own cooperatives/enterprises to deal with farming, storage/warehousing, processing and transportation separately at scale?
Start taxing rich farmers with income over 20 lakhs. When will that be talked about? Take away the corruption avenue using the name of poor farmers.
We still have a huge population of small time farmers. Most all countries have at one time had majority of its population into farming and food production. Times have changed and it dropped from 50+% to even as low as 1%.
Today i see many folks around who r doing IT, research and other professional jobs but their parents continue farming. Maybe it is their last generation into farming.
The question to ask is why we are pushing 50% population to engage in menial and hard farming jobs and have them be at mercy of govt and mother nature? The unnecessarily very high % of farmers is continued thru constant psychological fear (loss of land, livelihood and loss of pride in working under private enterprise for someone else). It is obvious who is playing this game
Lets not use farmers and exploit them as political pawns and make agriculture an avenue for corruption.
Support and empower the farmers. Instead of Adani why not group of farmers pool together and form their own cooperatives/enterprises to deal with farming, storage/warehousing, processing and transportation separately at scale?
Start taxing rich farmers with income over 20 lakhs. When will that be talked about? Take away the corruption avenue using the name of poor farmers.
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- BRF Oldie
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Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
Good luck with taxing the Punjabi farmer. There will be riots in Vancouver.
Re: 2020 Strategic and Political Analysis-1
dsreedhar wrote: Support and empower the farmers. Instead of Adani why not group of farmers pool together and form their own cooperatives/enterprises to deal with farming, storage/warehousing, processing and transportation separately at scale?
Start taxing rich farmers with income over 20 lakhs. When will that be talked about? Take away the corruption avenue using the name of poor farmers.
This was tried in multiple iterations in Kerala. Paddy cultivation has some kind of deep emotional appeal for Kerala people and the kammies have an even deeper attachment because the paddy farm sector of Alappuzha is the back door through which they stormed into kerala politics. So Kerala has tried everything from Soviet style collective farms to Israeli kibbutz concept for paddy.
Nothing worked and paddy is in terminal decline. except as a novelty or ritualistic crop
Basic issues of economies of scale as well as declining labour force has made even smaller farmers fanning out to cash crops like rubber or other value added things like pisciculture, cashew, veggies, fad fruits etc. But the major issue is raising capital needed for irrigation automation, maintaining supply chains for perishables etc. This is despite heavy subsidy for irrigation gear (eg: a 42 feet-throw capable geared pop up roto-impact sprinkler in khan land costs around 25$ at retail while same model costs about 10$ in Govt’s Agro Superstores). But almost always, the products and installation does not have SLA and farmer gets screwed royally if even a single session of irrigation is lost. Particularly for sensitive crops during drought
What Adani and Tata type conglomerates being to the table is capital for upgrading tech, full tech support(their bottom line depends on for example the sprinklers working well!) and becoming a part of a backward integration program that stretches all the way to the shelves around India. Similar farm to table programs in Kerala have all failed because it is usually headed by some humorless dick of an IAS officer with zero passion or deep knowledge of the sector or because of nepotism by farmers co ops. Group of farmers doing such things fail because they can’t attract the best of supply chain management talent and there will be one enthusiastic guy who will become a single point of failure if s/he disappears from scene.