China Military Watch

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 03 Jun 2009 14:17

When India,US,Japan,Australia had Naval War games in Malabar 07,China immeditely took a diplomatic offensive openly asking if it was a new Security Block emerging against.OZ PM,US Navy's Pacific Commander Timothy J Keating, denied it.

But our guys dont have b@lls to atleast protest it

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 03 Jun 2009 14:38

SivaVijay wrote:Amit,

My concern was not with regards to Pakistan. I am concerned about chinese intentions. They are already extending their influence in Nepal and with SL, Bangladesh, Myanmar already in the Kitty it just seems the encirclement is being completed. And when the predicted aggression(i.e. before 2017) does come true, i dont think all our joint exercise diplomacy is going to help(China is US's biggest creditor ). And with the west at a economic low we are vulnerable to a political as well as a militaristic aggression.

My concern is that AP should not become another Akshai-Chin .

look at it any way you want , Chinese aggression will only leave China with a bloody nose and very little useful territorial gaisn.

My central concern would be Chinese help in terms of hardware to TSP in case of aggression by TSP or pre-emptive strike by us.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 03 Jun 2009 14:49

Nihat wrote:pre-emptive strike by us

Sorry, couldn't resist...

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 03 Jun 2009 15:17

I could be worrying too much... but this is something I came across in Wikipedia(Aksai Chin)

"
Google Earth Speculation
In June 2006, satellite imagery on the Google Earth service revealed[2] a 1:500 scale terrain model [1] of eastern Aksai Chin and adjacent Tibet, built near the town of Huangyangtan, about 35 kilometres South West of Yinchuan, the capital of the autonomous region of Ningxia in China. A visual side-by-side comparison shows a very detailed duplication of Aksai Chin in the camp.[3] The 900m × 700m model was surrounded by substantial facility, with rows of red-roofed buildings, scores of olive-colored trucks and a large compound with elevated lookout posts and a large communications tower. Such terrain models are known to be used in military training and simulation (although usually on a much smaller scale).

Local authorities in Ningxia, however, maintain that the model is part of a tank training ground, built in 1998 or 1999.
"

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 03 Jun 2009 17:39

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Nihat wrote:pre-emptive strike by us

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Yeah , well.............. a guy can dream can't he !!!

Just to clarify , by pre-emptive strike I mean us (India ) on TSP soil , not chinese.

saptarishi · Post by **saptarishi** » 03 Jun 2009 18:30

[quote="Nihat]
Just to clarify , by pre-emptive strike I mean us (India ) on TSP soil , not chinese.[/quote]

we can strike the porkis easily,IAF identified around 5000 targets in paki land,,we can strike the chinese but that would promt the chinkis to launch massive strikes into india using their dong feng missile,that would be suicidal

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 06 Jun 2009 06:22

well, chinese anti-stealth passive rada is ready to export!

that is why Chinese is not interested on Czecho's villa passive radar,although Czech tried its best to maket it to CHinese. .

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 06 Jun 2009 06:35

very pretty. Brezhnev would have loved it.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 09 Jun 2009 13:24

India has developed several missiles which can launched form mobile phase to missiles of more than meter diameter. But if develop missiles that can be very light and reach several kilometers that will be a boost. Missiles as small as hands of ourselves will be easy to carry all along.
Why i am writing this is chinese are known to well known to hack computer systems even there are few reports that hey hacked F35 data from US. Since all the missile we have now are controlled by computer systems they may somehow reach one of bases and implant a virus. This is in future will be the biggest threat India will face.
All of them require satellites and china has anti-satellite missiles.

There are few strategies India can do -
1. Develop an High altitude aircraft which can function as satellites in case of emergency.
US already have tested one of them-http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... anes.html
2.2. To use missiles in system without much aid from computer. Or developing totally different computer which can never be hacked.
3. Miniature the missiles and aircrafts such their bases cannot be detected by enemy satellites.
4. Protect our satellites from enemy missiles.

All of them can be applied...
Whether they have the capability or not developing such alternatives will be much helpfull.

narayana · Post by **narayana** » 09 Jun 2009 13:37

IAF moving Sukhoi base to northeast to thwart Chinese threat

A defence spokesperson said four multi-role strike fighter jets would land June 15 at the Indian Air Force (IAF) base in Tezpur, about 185 km north of Assam's main city of Guwahati.

"Four Sukhoi 30 MKI fighter jets would land first and soon it would be a full squadron comprising of 18 aircraft," defence spokesperson Colonel R. Kalia said.

I feel we are getting prepared for a showdown by 2012 or 2014

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 09 Jun 2009 18:43

Now chinese will further intensify there military bases. All these days they were doing it secretively now it will be done publically.
It is more important not to announce such things to public. The arms race will bulid up and our border will be in danger as their border too.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 09 Jun 2009 22:40

Bring it on........

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 09 Jun 2009 22:58

govardhanks wrote:Now chinese will further intensify there military bases. All these days they were doing it secretively now it will be done publically.
It is more important not to announce such things to public. The arms race will bulid up and our border will be in danger as their border too.

Even if this was not announced the Chinese would know. They do not depend on our media for their information. Also the arms race is on whether you announce it or not. And our border has always been in danger. This is nothing new.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jun 2009 01:30

Katare is right. Its very important to assure Indian public that the GOI is taking steps to protect and hedge against the PRC. As the chiefs of the services say its capapbilites driven and not on intentions which can change. Keeping people in dark in a democracy will lead to surprises.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 10 Jun 2009 02:04

Indeed Ramanaji, as a democracy, we should not keep stuff that is already known to opponents from our own people. We should stop thinking "what will they do if I swagger around the block with a pistol tucked into my jeans?".

Anyways, the answer for that question: they will do nothing different: they have a plan and they will still sell weed to your idiot neighbour, but your family will not be openly taunted. Also patrol cops respond immediately if the other side tries to escalate, knowing they will not be able to deal with the mayhem.

govardhanks, chinese military dont have crazy resources to deal with escalations, though we in India are made to think otherwise by all media (Indian and western). If the chinese spend more, a whole bunch of "old money" people will out spend them. We are talking about serious militaries like US, Japan, SKorea, Russia etc.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 10 Jun 2009 02:25

govardhanks wrote:India has developed several missiles which can launched form mobile phase to missiles of more than meter diameter. But if develop missiles that can be very light and reach several kilometers that will be a boost. Missiles as small as hands of ourselves will be easy to carry all along.

Missiles the size of our hands! And these would be launched against China?

3. Miniature the missiles and aircrafts such their bases cannot be detected by enemy satellites.

How small do you want to go? Even assuming that is remotely possible, consider this. The GeoEye-1, a recently launched commercial satellite can collect images with a ground resolution of 0.41 metres. So not much hope there unless we are talking R/C planes.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 10 Jun 2009 12:20

This is for those who want to see worlds smallest and lightest missiles developed..
1.http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... 63681.html

The above URL gives us four different small militray weapons,
Here are few words which i want to highlight "It’s the smallest guided missile in the world, but Spike (shown above)—which weighs just 5.3 pounds and measures 25 in. long—packs a big punch."" Spike is easy to deploy. It’s also versatile: A gunner at a mobile control station can switch targets or abort an attack while the missile is in flight."
I don't think a 25 inch long thing can be seen from a satellite..!
"The Pentagon wants to adapt the SDB’s warhead to produce less shrapnel, further limiting collateral damage, by using a casing made of carbon composites instead of steel. In February, Boeing delivered the first 50 of these “Focused Lethality” variants to the Air Force for testing."
"It doesn’t shoot, but the 112-in. MALD may prove deadly to enemy air defenses. Launched from an aircraft, this turbojet-powered decoy mimics combat aircraft, tricking antiaircraft batteries into turning on their radars—thereby revealing their positions and becoming targets themselves."

2.http://www.whnt.com/news/nationworld/la ... otogallery
See the hand sized missiles..
3. http://en15.rian.ru/img/118575033_free.html
This is Bulava the lightest ballistic missile from russia.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 10 Jun 2009 19:08

I am not disputing the fact that there are small missiles. But if you notice the launcher it has to be bigger, and the plane those bombs were on was an F-15. Not small by any measure. I was questioning the reason why these would be needed against China specifically? These look more like something special ops would use if and when they are mass produced. Even if you manage to hide the missiles they will attack the delivery/launch system and not the missiles themselves. And their limited range would mean you actually have to be closer to the target to hit it.
The Bulava is an SLBM. It is not small either.

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 11 Jun 2009 15:38

China targeting Indian Pharma

The above issue is not related to military , but implications are just as concerning. Don't know where to put this.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 11 Jun 2009 18:43

SivaVijay wrote:China targeting Indian Pharma

The above issue is not related to military , but implications are just as concerning. Don't know where to put this.

This is cheap behaviour. Not unexpected of a country which has amorous intentions towards rogues like TSP. Hope India says takes this up to UN/WTO. So that the world believes all fake medicines are manufactured in china.

But it also means that they have accepted defeat in the pharma sector.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 11 Jun 2009 19:26

Within span of years these missile will be the next generation tech. Yes they do require launching support but if India prepares such a missiles, they will be cheapest in world, and we will be prove our technology to be superior. proving our tech is double edge sword it cuts the enemies interest as well it attracts a huge market. We can never forget this incident, when we were prepare for moon mission, china sent manned missions. there is a competition and we have to prove ourselves.

China have developed several missiles but none are war tested, this is the case of many countries including India. Only big brothers like US, USSR,... have. So at what ever means they are questionable of efficiency.

Rather what these countries are doing is showing the mighty technology. India has given a tough competition to China in terms of it. But, china has sold so many of them and enjoying the revenue, while India has not found a market. The Defence industries or research institutes will remain only if they are economically strong. Our only source of funding such institutes is govt.

Coming to satellite based detection these small missile are worth of it. Next, range that what i am stressing we have reach the previously thought impossible thing. I mean we have to maximise their range to prove our tech.

Another question why this would be needed against china? because they cannot be traced their numbers cannot be traced. To have kill proportion our enemy has to be surprised. It is more technological warfare then oldies to hold sword and fight.
Bulava i mentioned it as a lightest.
If you see latest war russia and georgia, russia literally hacked all the government websites, these startegies will destroy enemy inshort time, without destrcution of envirnonment.

Aircraft weakness is its aerodynamic shape you don''t need to blast it.. just destroy its shape.. battle feild tanks-- destroy their locomotion apparatus. These small and lightest missile have hell lot of applications..

comments please..

BijuShet · Post by **BijuShet** » 11 Jun 2009 19:36

govardhanks wrote:...
comments please..

Based on the huge fear of the chinese that you are living with everyday, My comment/suggestion is for you to go and cower in a narrow dark place like all of us SDRE's. In all your posts you are indulging in some kind of scare mongering and that is not productive to anyone. If you want to be taken seriously here then slow down a bit and think things through.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 11 Jun 2009 21:46

BijuShet wrote:
govardhanks wrote:...
comments please..
Based on the huge fear of the chinese that you are living with everyday, My comment/suggestion is for you to go and cower in a narrow dark place like all of us SDRE's. In all your posts you are indulging in some kind of scare mongering and that is not productive to anyone. If you want to be taken seriously here then slow down a bit and think things through.

why would i come to BR if i was living with fear, i would stand out and shout something. My country is my first concern there are huge lot youngsters who visit this web like me. My posts are giving everyone the possibilities and a chance to think alternatives with out getting surprised when these are first introduced. It is productive because it lets everyone to think that we can be still good than what we are now. If not fear or scareness what made US to develop world class militray euipment, what it made it store 5 year of oil reserves in case of emergency, what made it have military bases all over the world. If not fear then what made it support pak!

I just want everyone to think, don't get serious because what i have is available in web to everyone. The discussion if prolonged will definately lead us to insight of knowledge by which our decisions will not be wrong.
This is my pace and i am thinking still i am very slow.. Perhaps the discussion will make something through..

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 11 Jun 2009 21:57

govardhanks wrote:Aircraft weakness is its aerodynamic shape you don''t need to blast it.. just destroy its shape.. battle feild tanks-- destroy their locomotion apparatus. These small and lightest missile have hell lot of applications..

You are talking about too many things at one time. This makes it a little tough to understand what you are getting at. To answer one of your points. Aircraft have been known to fly back to base with extensive battle damage. If you manage to get a missile shot at an aircraft would you damage it or destroy it?
Battle tanks cant be immoblised by shooting a small missile. If you destroy the locomotion apparatus it still leaves them enough to destroy you. The main gun still works right? And it can be repaired. There is a good reason why the ATGM's go for tandem warheads and try to hit from the top. The tank needs to be destroyed, not immobilised.

Also lets keep the focus to China. I think we are going off topic here.

vsudhir · Post by **vsudhir** » 11 Jun 2009 23:00

Today’s editorial in the Chinese Communist Party-linked Global Times:

India’s unwise military moves

Global Times
http://opinion.globaltimes.cn/editorial ... 36174.html
09 June 11 2009
posted in full due to doubts about archiving

In the last few days, India has dispatched roughly 60,000 troops to its border with China, the scene of enduring territorial disputes between the two countries.

J.J. Singh, the Indian governor of the controversial area, said the move was intended to “meet future security challenges” from China. Meanwhile, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh claimed, despite cooperative India-China relations, his government would make no concessions to China on territorial disputes.

The tough posture Singh’s new government has taken may win some applause among India’s domestic nationalists. But it is dangerous if it is based on a false anticipation that China will cave in.

India has long held contradictory views on China. Another big Asian country, India is frustrated that China’s rise has captured much of the world’s attention. Proud of its “advanced political system,” India feels superior to China. However, it faces a disappointing domestic situation which is unstable compared with China’s.

India likes to brag about its sustainable development, but worries that it is being left behind by China. China is seen in India as both a potential threat and a competitor to surpass.

But India can’t actually compete with China in a number of areas, like international influence, overall national power and economic scale. India apparently has not yet realized this.
Indian politicians these days seem to think their country would be doing China a huge favor simply by not joining the “ring around China” established by the US and Japan.

India’s growing power would have a significant impact on the balance of this equation, which has led India to think that fear and gratitude for its restraint will cause China to defer to it on territorial disputes.

But this is wishful thinking, as China won’t make any compromises in its border disputes with India. And while China wishes to coexist peacefully with India, this desire isn’t born out of fear.

India’s current course can only lead to a rivalry between the two countries. India needs
to consider whether or not it can afford the consequences of a potential confrontation with China. It should also be asking itself why it hasn’t forged the stable and friendly relationship with China that China enjoys with many of India’s neighbors, like Pakistan, Nepal and Sri Lanka.

Any aggressive moves will certainly not aid the development of good relations with China. India should examine its attitude and preconceptions; it will need to adjust if it hopes to cooperate with China and achieve a mutually beneficial outcome.

To which one blogger says:

The editors at Global Times are unambiguously telling the doubting Rams in India that neither fear, nor gratitude will make China compromise in its territorial disputes with India. In fact, it won’t compromise at all. And yet it is India’s current course that will lead to rivalry between the two countries, and it is India that “will need to adjust if it hopes to cooperate with China and achieve a mutually beneficial outcome.” Such straight talk is welcome.

Although the editorial denies it, it does betray China’s big fear: that India can swing the geopolitical balance to China’s detriment should it side the United States and Japan. The foreign policy of the first UPA government failed to make China appreciate the value of Indian restraint. That’s why the second UPA government must not repeat that mistake. The consequences of a potential confrontation, after all, go both ways.

link

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 12 Jun 2009 19:34

India is China's biggest threat

Seems we are approaching boiling point.....

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 12 Jun 2009 20:45

Interesting!

40+ years of cooperation and desire for peaceful coexistence has yielded nothing but trouble for India while China has reaped all the dividends of this peaceful coexistence. We have been betrayed by Chinese on this front, again. We must return China its rightfully deserved troubles for unresolved disputes at borders and encirclement of our motherland.

You can come and mess in my neighborhood but I’ll impose a very heavy price for it.

Omar · Post by **Omar** » 12 Jun 2009 20:55

I wonder if we can expect to see China avoiding direct confrontation and instead exerting its leverage vis a vis its proxies in Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, and Tripura resulting in an uptick in violence in the NE.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 12 Jun 2009 21:13

Omar wrote:I wonder if we can expect to see China avoiding direct confrontation and instead exerting its leverage vis a vis its proxies in Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, and Tripura resulting in an uptick in violence in the NE.

They would stay clear of that route, we hold better cards in that department against Chinese.

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Jun 2009 21:20

Surely not the Tibet card since IIRC, we have squandered it big time long ago?

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 12 Jun 2009 21:34

SivaVijay wrote:India is China's biggest threat

Seems we are approaching boiling point.....

chinese expansion drives will be their biggest mistake in their whole history ,no doubt about that.
chinks know it but some mushies in china are getting desperate as communism is weakening,and the need of violent aggressive communism rising .but still chinese are hesitating

that's why
'Jo beijing mein gandu, woh Tibet mein bhi gandu'

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2009 21:36

Goverdhan,
I dont want to curb your enthu. For we always need new thoughts. Yet I dont want toyou to clutter all threads with your 'findings".

So as a compromise I suggest you post all the gee wiz technology items in the newbie thread. Please dont be insulted. Many of our outstanding members have graduated from there.

ramana

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Jun 2009 22:16

SivaVijay wrote:India is China's biggest threat

Seems we are approaching boiling point.....

Nope. Old stuff.

Just that GoI no longer has a Chinese stooge within GoI to deal with. Goi is a LOT more free to deal with a threat at the border. Threat: That China has built up in Tibet is no longer a topic to discuss as far as the Chinese are concerned, no need to talk of n number of intrusions into India - for they are normal for the Chinese.

But, India responding is an issue because the Communist Parties of India - who used to take care of Chinese interests WRT India - are no longer Party to deal with. They have been voted down.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 12 Jun 2009 23:14

There are a couple of things to bear in mind - India may have more troops in theatre than China. China may be able to reinforce their units faster but they still have to get into the conflict zone.

There is not much to choose between the equipment of the forces. The key is for India to build up air and air defence power in the region and to enhance its missile arsenal - more Prithvis, Brahmos and eventually Shourya for tactical purposes and to preserve a strong deterrent vs China's cities.

But the most important thing India can do is to pick itself up, dust itself off and clean itself up and in so doing present a picture of development rather than dirt.

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Jun 2009 10:02

There is not much to choose between the equipment of the forces. The key is for India to build up air and air defence power in the region and to enhance its missile arsenal - more Prithvis, Brahmos and eventually Shourya for tactical purposes and to preserve a strong deterrent vs China's cities.

Just yesterday, the IA artillery chief has been quoted as saying that the ultra light howitzers will be delayed "indefinitely" till CBI probe is done....That is a huge blow for the "mountain strike corps" to be based in the NE.

Somehow, we always seem to make a start and then axe ourselves on the foot.

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 13 Jun 2009 12:19

may be off topic....but in the mountainous terrain how will we counter counter battery fire, moving the gun pieces won't be that easy.... with the light Howitzer are we planning some kinda air cav style of operations...Jump, shoot, scoot and Jump again

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 13 Jun 2009 16:28

sum, it is not a "huge blow". We just have to cope with it - that's all. If there is somebody to blame it is that OFB chief for so brazenly taking bribes. The artillery is just about adequate at present though not ideal.

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 13 Jun 2009 17:37

SivaVijay wrote:India is China's biggest threat

Seems we are approaching boiling point.....

The original report from Global Times

90% in online poll believe India threatens China's security

The original online poll results did by a chinese website.Its in chinese

http://survey.huanqiu.com/result.php?s= ... `5^1@@`5^1@

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 13 Jun 2009 18:35

Don't ignore China's threat, says Arunachal MP

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 13 Jun 2009 19:13

^^ time to test A - bomb i guess...