Bharat Rakshak

Tata Motors in Loan talks with SBI


Question: How does counter guarantee exactly work!? Does it make sense for Indian government controlled banks to facilitate investment in U.K., even if it is an Indian venture, when India needs all the investment it can get? Is this normal or is Tata getting special favors at the risk of jeopardizing Indian economy?

TBHP has pictures of a nano that was delivered the first day Here

And here is an interesting angle:



It doesn't look small at all. There is side by side pix with an estilo as well

Nano’s first customers have best impression

Mumbai, Aug. 7 Despite the claim of maximum speed of 105 km/hour for the Nano, Mr Ashish Balakrishnan, one of the first customers of the car could manage only 80-90 km. Mr Balakrishnan, who is yet to get a driving licence, relies on the opinion of his friends who drove the car for him. They say the mileage they got was 14-15 km/litre against the ARAI-testified claim of 23.6 km/litre.

However, Mr Ashok Vichare, another customer who got his Nano on the same day, is happy with the 22-23 km his car runs on one litre of petrol.

Three weeks after they first hopped into the driving seat of the Nano, the first three customers of Tata’s ‘people’s car’ say they are happy with the vehicle. Their opinions on its fuel economy, speed and comfort may vary but all three have the same first comment: “It is a wonderful car”.

Mr Vichare, the first one to receive the keys to the small car from Mr Ratan Tata on July 17, has already driven his vehicle 450 km. “Excellent pick-up even in first gear,” says Mr Vichare. “Some say the car gives mileage of 26 km on highways. I am getting 22-23 (km) in the city and I am happy,” he said.

“The gear system is not ‘making noise’. The AC is working very well…a smooth car,” Mr Vichare, who takes out his family of five for long weekend drives these days, is all praise for the Nano.
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Balakrishnan's friend may be gunning the car to check accelaration and top speed. hence the low milage. Driving a underpowered car is an art. You not only change gear at the optimal speeds but also you must have very sensitive foot to give the smooth increase in gas. The response of the car as it approaches top rated (speed torque) is also sensitive to road gradient. SO many things are involved including break in milage. IMO

Tata Nano frontal crash test:

bit more news:

More on the Tata Nano passing European frontal and side-impact crash tests:

http://www.ae-plus.com/Technology%20News/tn-089.htm

John Snow wrote:Balakrishnan's friend may be gunning the car to check accelaration and top speed. hence the low milage. Driving a underpowered car is an art. You not only change gear at the optimal speeds but also you must have very sensitive foot to give the smooth increase in gas. The response of the car as it approaches top rated (speed torque) is also sensitive to road gradient. SO many things are involved including break in milage. IMO

Also remember that until the first three servicings are done you dont expect any engine to work at its most efficient. From what litte I know about engines, having owned a bike from college days the first 1000 kms or so you get very low mileage or should it be kilomerteage!

In Hyderabadi mechanic parlance

"Seating baitna sab, jab thak aapko milage badtha eech nahi"

Ardath the piston rings and cylinder have to break in (in american parlance)

JLR doesn't need UK govt's support: Tata

While Tata officials insisted that not much should be read into the issue, industry analysts — many based out of Europe — doubted this and said the company appeared to be frustrated at the "inordinate" delay in getting government loan guarantee assurances. Also a sore point was the "stiff conditions" the government suggested for support.

Tata Motors has been negotiating with the UK government since November last year, seeking assurances in the face of difficult financing scenario as sales dipped and losses mounted. The company's anger could be seen when group Chairman Ratan Tata said in a press interview to The Sunday Times that UK government "does not appear to care about the manufacturing sector or doesn't seem to consider it really part of the economy."

"The government controls the banks and all I seek is facilitation of access to credit on commercial terms. Not a bailout," he had said.

The global car industry today is ULTRA competitive. All segments of the market from the cheapest to the most expensive, from the smallest car to the largest SUV is covered. Therefore where is the nitch in the market where Indian car makers can exploit? I can only see 2 possible nitches in the market 1) the ultra cheap cars such as the nano and 2) hybrid, electic and fuel cell cars.

South Korea: Cheap cars segment is theirs, they excel at this. Biggest competitor in future years is China.
Japan: Known for quality, reliability and increasingly style and power.
Germany: Have covered the high end market. The number 1 in luxury cars, you simply cannot beat the likes of MERC, BMW, AUDI and PORSCHE.
Italy: Fiat covers the hipster market and the alfa for people who like style but cant afford the german big guns
America: Have made crappy cars in the past that along with their very generous (read suicidal) pension plan to former employees is one of the reasons why they are in so much trouble. But they are going to go big into electric and fuell cell tech cars.
India: Just barely entering this ultra competitve marketplace. IMO have to invest in next gen technology such as electric cars, hybrid and fuel cell cars and sell it affordably. This way they can get a one up on the East asians.

The simple fact is that TATA is not making much money on the nano howerever many that they sell. The margins are absolutely razor thin. The only way foward in my opinion is to heavily invest in NEXT-GEN TECH.

Has anyone bought/ driven the Honda Jazz?

If so, can we have your experience?

Well its true that Tata is not making money on the Nano right now.But Ravi Kant did say that they wouldn't have started this project if they weren't sure of its profitability.Their whole strategy is based on economies of scale.That will come under pressure once raw material prices start to rise.If the Nano price goes up then the price differential w.r.t the Maruti and Alto becomes less.
The positive out of the Jaguar acquisition is that they get access to the technology and design expertise.

RayC wrote:Has anyone bought/ driven the Honda Jazz?

If so, can we have your experience?

Sir,

This forum deals with the car scene in India. You will find more threads on honda jazz down at the bottom.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-dri ... ort-2.html

Has anyone bought/ driven the Honda Jazz?

If so, can we have your experience?

Ray Ji, you can experience the Jazz ineriors, colors, exteriors here by playing around the mouse:

http://jazz.honda.com.au/see-the-car_36 ... olour.aspx

VW to start selling the Beetle in India

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 188640.htm

Tata May Bid for Pininfarina

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Ne ... eId=155107


Pininfarina is an Italian design house - which happens to design cars for the likes of Ferrari and co..
Excellent news..I hope this is true, and that Tata wins it!

Mohan

^^^ No doubt helped by his pals in Fiat.

harbans wrote:Has anyone bought/ driven the Honda Jazz?

If so, can we have your experience?

Ray Ji, you can experience the Jazz ineriors, colors, exteriors here by playing around the mouse:

http://jazz.honda.com.au/see-the-car_36 ... olour.aspx

Thanks.

A great virtual spin!

I compared jazz and i20 seriously last week. both are very similar in the spec but jazz should have better fit n finish and interior space due to hondas cab fwd design expertise. both are a bit expensive for the size. fiat has a new offering in that space too. ultimately decided on a sedan sized car to accomodate all the detritus of empire our trips tend to take - like civic or city...just pak-poised on the brink hoping and praying for a good bonus next yr

Have to choose between Pazero and LR Discovery 3. Cant make my mind. Fan of Pazero for last 15 years but service sucks. All dedicated service centers have evaporated here in Brussulabad. Do not know anything about Discovery but they are offering full options at very good price. Any input about Disco3 is welcomed. Thanks

Settled on the IndigoCS. Hoping for some trouble free driving for the next few yrs. Jai Ho.

Was deciding to switch to a CNG autorickshaw, given Arnoldistan's high gas prices. However, given bad economic condition, decided to stay put for next 5 years with current Civic bought at Nano price

a hyperfit gym dada like you should be able to cycle to work!

ultimately decided on a sedan sized car to accomodate all the detritus of empire our trips tend to take - like civic or city...just pak-poised on the brink hoping and praying for a good bonus next yr

Didn't evaluate the Linea ?. It has the the one loaded with all equipment and very well priced. Rear head room is the problem, along with LHD controls. Otherwise, looks good I though and it has a diesel option as well,which Hondas dont have.

I just love the Jazz, fingers ithcing to buy it.

Singha wrote:a hyperfit gym dada like you should be able to cycle to work!

^^^ You should see my "working man" paunch ...trying hard to lose that flab by running uphill (i.e. treadmill at 15 degrees) to bring it in line with the rest of the parts. Nowadays during the twice-a-week free food fest @work I limit the intake to 1 serving and that too 1/3rd of the original 1 serving but flab is like a Paki, clings like lice!

mohan wrote:Tata May Bid for Pininfarina

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Ne ... eId=155107


Pininfarina is an Italian design house - which happens to design cars for the likes of Ferrari and co..
Excellent news..I hope this is true, and that Tata wins it!

Mohan

They already own I think about 20% of the company. Almost all new cars in the pipeline from the Tata side are being designed by Pininfarina. They were offered the marjority stake earlier also but for God-knows-why reasons they didnt. It will be very good if they take over this company.

The distinct 'eye' look in the Tata cars ie the styling of the front lamps and the grill is courtesy Pininfarina.

vina wrote:

ultimately decided on a sedan sized car to accomodate all the detritus of empire our trips tend to take - like civic or city...just pak-poised on the brink hoping and praying for a good bonus next yr

Didn't evaluate the Linea ?. It has the the one loaded with all equipment and very well priced. Rear head room is the problem, along with LHD controls. Otherwise, looks good I though and it has a diesel option as well,which Hondas dont have.

I just love the Jazz, fingers ithcing to buy it.

Must try this car. At about 9.5 lakh - the top end Diesel Emotion Pack - it is a steal. NO other car offers all the goodies given in this one. Blue and me, alloy wheel, two front air bags, sterring control of audio system, diesel engine (1.3 l), and the awesome (just awesome) styling packs a great punch.

Only grouch - 1.3 l is woefully small for this huge beast (it is longer and bigger than City). They are planning to come up with a 1.6 l engine but that may take time. The current 1.3 l is slightly annoying in city conditions where you have to quickly go from 2 to 3rd gear very soon as 2nd gear is underpowered/under torqued. But until you want a fly-by-wire system(aka MRCA bids), this is the most economical and best looking car out there in this price range.
Me brought this two months ago with kind helping from my bro and Mom

Well yes nothing can beat a Fiat for pure style. And value for money. Service sucks of course and that's the biggest problem.

But for the non auto enthus, the name "fiat" is permanently associated with the Premier Padmini. When we were considering which car to buy, SHQ vetoed anything fiat because of that.

The other day, my 7yo son was looking at a picture of the old Padmini, and asked me which car is it. I said "fiat". He immediately shot back "Which model? I know palio, linea and punto. What is this model?"

Times change.

Fiat Millicento!

jazz seems a bit on small side and the corresponding fiat too. no more compromises for me,
going for a proper small sedan like civic is onlee way out. we have been having a rough time past 5 yrs trying to accomodate parents, kid and sometimes the maid too plus luggage in santro.

I did look at the Linea but wife hated the grinning mouth look so cancelled it. between city and civic, since its a premium anyway for the H-tag, better to run with the bigger stick. i.e. 32-cell VLS -vs- 64-cell.

a city station wagon with a V70 wagon box style rear would be great though, loads of space
to keep man stuff like tools, guns, beer, extra shoes and hiking gear....

How good is Tata Nano a candidate for transplantation of a fuel-cell?

suryag wrote:How good is Tata Nano a candidate for transplantation of a fuel-cell?

Making a fuel cell engine is relatively simple. The main problem is the distribution of Hydrogen. Either it has a huge volume or it has to be compressed.

Has anyone tried the NANO here ? please comment on the quality, handling, engine etc.

Singha wrote:jazz seems a bit on small side and the corresponding fiat too. no more compromises for me,
going for a proper small sedan like civic is onlee way out. we have been having a rough time past 5 yrs trying to accomodate parents, kid and sometimes the maid too plus luggage in santro.

I did look at the Linea but wife hated the grinning mouth look so cancelled it. between city and civic, since its a premium anyway for the H-tag, better to run with the bigger stick. i.e. 32-cell VLS -vs- 64-cell.

a city station wagon with a V70 wagon box style rear would be great though, loads of space
to keep man stuff like tools, guns, beer, extra shoes and hiking gear....

Curious to know if you considered a Scorpio.

jazz seems a bit on small side

Hmm. Funny you say that . The City is exactly the same as the Jazz platform. In fact, in the interior, the Jazz would be larger than the City and the Jazz has a pretty big boot as well. Can safely swallow all the luggage you have, especially if you use the "magic seats".

Hah.. Wife hated grinning face ?. Tch. Tch.. Unless, wife is paying for it, isn't buying the car and booze always the Man's decision ? . Such things are best done as a fait accompli.

Honey, Suprise, just step outside and look at the new car we have.. ta , da!

Singha wrote:jazz seems a bit on small side and the corresponding fiat too. no more compromises for me,
going for a proper small sedan like civic is onlee way out. we have been having a rough time past 5 yrs trying to accomodate parents, kid and sometimes the maid too plus luggage in santro.

I did look at the Linea but wife hated the grinning mouth look so cancelled it. between city and civic, since its a premium anyway for the H-tag, better to run with the bigger stick. i.e. 32-cell VLS -vs- 64-cell.

a city station wagon with a V70 wagon box style rear would be great though, loads of space
to keep man stuff like tools, guns, beer, extra shoes and hiking gear....

Have you sat inside one? Go to a showroom and check it out. It does appear small, but it isnt from the inside, brilliant packaging by Honda. As Vina said, its the same platform as the city, and the interiors are much more flexible and mini-SUV'ish. Also in most countries it is priced higher than the City for the same reasons.

I personally like the car very much, but find it too expensive. Not because of the typical Indian logic that it is a hatchback so how can it be priced like a Sedan (i would actually prefer a good hatchback like VW Golf over a sedan). My complaint about it is that it is not fully loaded for the price, it would be VFM if it had the 1.5 L engine from the City.

If space is your main concern, and you are on a Civic type budget, you cant go wrong with Innova. As comfortable and easy to drive as a car, and Toyota reliability so you can easily run up 200,000 km on it in Indian conditions without it breaking a sweat.

Innova is a pain to park since its so large.

Rishirishi wrote:

suryag wrote:How good is Tata Nano a candidate for transplantation of a fuel-cell?

Making a fuel cell engine is relatively simple. The main problem is the distribution of Hydrogen. Either it has a huge volume or it has to be compressed.

Has anyone tried the NANO here ? please comment on the quality, handling, engine etc.

Fuel Cell - Well nobody is looking at this tech for now in India atleast. Rather the electric vehicle concept is far easier and promising in comparison. There is a talk about Nano being made electric but for now Tatas are struggling with the Electric Vista that they are trying to develop with their subsidaries in Europe.

As for trying Nano - yup me did. The vehicle is just awesome. I swear I love it so much that given the choice of a Natasha and Nano, I will choose the latter anyday
The engine surprisingly pulls the car to 80-90 kmph quite easily. There is a bit of engine noise inside the car which will be brought down in Nano Europa. Handling is pretty fine too. With a small wheel base and wheel dia, it is pretty nice to move around. I swear, for places like Delhi, Mumbai - it is THE car to have. One can keep the sedans and zazy ones for once-in-a-week types and use Nano darling for bread-and-butter purposes. Typical yindoo mentality of different teeth for different use.

merlin wrote:Innova is a pain to park since its so large.

Plus there are too many Innova Taxi's around.

One surprising vehicle that has missed the eyes of people is Indica Marina. The car looks awesome somehow. It surely looks nowhere as an Indica. Not many know that it is the most popular model sold by Tatas in the firang markets. The concept of Station Wagon has just not taken off in India. It has good space at the back for luggage as essentially the boot space and the passenger compartment are one - no partition. I love the looks of this car with top rails.