India-US News and Discussion

Abhi_G · Post by **Abhi_G** » 11 Sep 2009 00:37

^^^

A Kumar, please check personal mailbox.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 11 Sep 2009 00:49

According to reports, Clinton is considering quitting the job to retake her old US Senate from New York seat, which is currently held by Kristin Gillibrand.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Sep 2009 00:53

NRao wrote:Frustrated Hillary mulls quitting

According to reports, Clinton is considering quitting the job to retake her old US Senate from New York seat, which is currently held by Kristin Gillibrand.

Should not be a surprise.
The voice of the SOS has been completely muffed and all the policy for international relations are done by the A Team of the WH and POTUS.

Democratic party is building a new kind of relationship with the rest of the world including the Muslim world which will be different from Clinton type of relationship

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Sep 2009 06:02

Let the Obama whitehouse implode from its own contradictions. One can make any old promises on the campaign trail, including telling voters they can have their cake and eat it too. But the realities and imperatives of office will render those lies hollow.

Sorry, but being African-American is not enough in itself to drag America headlong into any old direction one feels like.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 11 Sep 2009 06:32

It is probably very similar to what happened with old empires. Once the empire gets some larger than origin influence, various parties form that have links to previously indepndent or even dominant entities. In the USA this means there will be all sorts of groups pushing for say European interests, or Chinese interests, or Russian interests. It is like courtiers from the provinces or neighbouring kingdoms jockeying to gain advantage for their constiuencies.

The empire is not unaware of all these contradictory jockeying. It cleverly allows each party to flourish to a certain extent. This is just realpolitic in a multi-identity empire. USA is keeping its hedging options open. By allowing the Indian maps to be pruned, it is stoking Chinese sentiments. At the same time it has other means of stoking Indian egos.

Hillary need not be frustrated. The Obama experiment is an alternative take being explored of first dividing the "Islamic" world, and pushing for a soft-option to gain breathing time for military preparations. The basic theological evangelist mindset is not gone - and their theological expectations combined with financial needs, will push them towards a global confrontation. But that confrontation will be undertaken under cover. Slowly and casually started, piecemeal - so that the bigger plan is not obvious. The very fact that Obama has been chosen to be the face of this interim deceptive calm, is again a hedge. If it does not work, then the experiment itself could be blamed for deviation and sacrificed at the altar of popular politics.

a_kumar · Post by **a_kumar** » 11 Sep 2009 06:54

Abhi_G, Got it. Thanks.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Sep 2009 07:18

brihaspati wrote:It is probably very similar to what happened with old empires. Once the empire gets some larger than origin influence, various parties form that have links to previously indepndent or even dominant entities. In the USA this means there will be all sorts of groups pushing for say European interests, or Chinese interests, or Russian interests. It is like courtiers from the provinces or neighbouring kingdoms jockeying to gain advantage for their constiuencies.

The empire is not unaware of all these contradictory jockeying. It cleverly allows each party to flourish to a certain extent. This is just realpolitic in a multi-identity empire. USA is keeping its hedging options open. By allowing the Indian maps to be pruned, it is stoking Chinese sentiments. At the same time it has other means of stoking Indian egos.

The means of stoking Indian egos, is really to let the Kaangress rule us in a de facto one-party state, while paying homage to the personality cult they've built around the Family.
As long as they cultivate local elites in India who will do their bidding, they can be happy. The Kaangress cares little about the country, which they see as merely a platform upon which to support the power structure which gives them their privileges.

Hillary need not be frustrated. The Obama experiment is an alternative take being explored of first dividing the "Islamic" world, and pushing for a soft-option to gain breathing time for military preparations. The basic theological evangelist mindset is not gone - and their theological expectations combined with financial needs, will push them towards a global confrontation. But that confrontation will be undertaken under cover. Slowly and casually started, piecemeal - so that the bigger plan is not obvious. The very fact that Obama has been chosen to be the face of this interim deceptive calm, is again a hedge. If it does not work, then the experiment itself could be blamed for deviation and sacrificed at the altar of popular politics.

Obama was not backed by those looking to invade the Islamic world. Obama was backed by the Atlanticists who were frightened of local coalition of Jacksonians and Zionists leading the West into a confrontation with Islam that Atlanticists deemed as against their interests. Obama was not an ideal choice for them, but a choice born out of dire necessity.

As such, Obama has not proven to be a man they completely own (like Carter and Clinton), but rather a man of his own locally cultivated tastes and worldview.
While the Atlanticists can opportunistically deflect him occasionally down paths they want, his affiliation with them is too loose for him to be in their orbit.

It is for this reason that the Atlanticists will eventually abandon him out of frustration, as they groom their own candidate of choice. Perhaps such a candidate would ideally be a conservative hispanic Catholic, able to flaunt the minority ethnic card, while being loyal to Atlanticist culture and worldview.

Meanwhile, I think Indians should learn to speak more Spanish. It's the most widely spoken language beyond english, and I'm sure Indians can not only pick it up quickly, but can also blend easily into its culture and lifestyle. Even though Spanish-speaking countries are low-wage, the fact is that they suffer a dearth of technology industries, where Indians could easily fill the gap. As it is, so many Indian immigrants to the USA find it easy to get higher jobs in the Southern US states. In Latin America, this would be even more the case, for those Indians who could overcome the language barrier.
On the level of global commerce and opportunities, Latin America is rich in resources, while India seems to be good at low-cost technology solutions. There is a high complementarity among these things.
Pursuing more business with Latin America would also allow reduced dependency upon the US market and the US dollar, so as to mitigate risk and avoid local backlash from their workers.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Sep 2009 07:29

Sanjay M wrote:
It is for this reason that the Atlanticists will eventually abandon him out of frustration, as they groom their own candidate of choice. Perhaps such a candidate would ideally be a conservative hispanic Catholic, able to flaunt the minority ethnic card, while being loyal to Atlanticist culture and worldview.

There is no way they are going to abandon Obama. The system does not work that way. They will use the special interest to finally put control and get what they want.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Sep 2009 07:39

Dunno whether the fartlantists do or don't own Sri Obama but the latter has, quite nobly, shown himself to be firmly in the grip of special interests, esp of the int'l banking cartel variety.

His latest speech on healthcare also showed him skillfully unable to resist pressure from the powerful med-pharma-insurance lobby in the US.

Meanwhile, EUrostan is making discontent noises about 'PRC unfair trade practices' - something that can only grow as real unemployment levels reach their new normal of ~20% in the emerged mkts of the world.

The Business Secretary, on a visit to Beijing to boost UK-China trade links, also warned on Tuesday that future “tension and disagreement” between China and the EU was inevitable as the trade deficit between China and Europe continues to grow….

Trade relations between Europe and China are under increasing strain, with a series of opinion polls showing that the European public is growing steadily more intolerant of China’s unfair trade practices.

{How quaint. Its the public in emerged mkts that disapproves of unfair phoren competition as opposed to the gubmint of emerging mkt that does obstructs free trade}

Last week, the European Union Chamber of Commerce in China released a report containing 600 pages of complaints by European businesses which had fallen victim to China’s myriad hidden way of discriminating against foreign businesses..

Lord Mandelson said that while such trade was vital to reinvigorating Britain’s economy, there needed to be “constant dialogue” to keep up “legitimate pressure” on China’s government to open its markets more fully.

Whoa, spot-lock-fire about to happen, you say? Not so soon, however

However, he said he did not agree with growing calls from some quarters of the EU for the need to take a tougher stance with Beijing, saying that constructive – as opposed to “conditional” - engagement was in the bests interests of both parties.

“China would say ‘we are a big, complex, fast-growing economy and you have to be patient, give us time’. I understand this, but equally China must understand when we in Europe feel we are being too hard done by.

“These things will even out over time, but in the meanwhile this is going to spark some tension and disagreement, but all of this must be managed because it is in all our interests to see China growing. We would all pay a colossal economic price if China was to fail economically.”

link

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Sep 2009 07:46

Acharya wrote:There is no way they are going to abandon Obama. The system does not work that way. They will use the special interest to finally put control and get what they want.

The problem is that the special interests who form Obama's core support base don't need the Atlanticists. Likewise, once Lalu emerged from under VP Singh's wing, he quickly took over JD and Singh was discarded. Does anybody remember what VP Singh was doing in politics after that? I sure don't.

The rest of the special interest lobbies in the US don't need the Atlanticists, or to cater to their distracting agenda and its onerous needs.
This is why Obama and Biden are able to talk of 'resetting' relations with Russia. They're too preoccupied with meeting their goals on Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and their numerous domestic goals, to worry about bending over backwards for the Atlanticists. Election campaign promises are one thing, but governance requires some pragmatic compromises, and meanwhile the core special interest blocs are too consumed with their petty needs to give much of a glance at the Atlanticists who will soon find themselves out in the cold, experiencing the winter of their discontent.

Will the Atlanticists run to find a Reagan? Well, the Reagan era is over, the era of Reagan deficit-spending is exhausted, and the Irish-American swing-vote has lost its ties to the rest of the Atlanticists concerned with politics on the continental European mainland.
Could they find an hispanic Reagan, or an hispanic Carter/Clinton? Maybe, but such a person could prove to be another Obama, loosely bound and unreliable. The Atlanticists have run out of ethnic cards to play, just as the US Federal Reserve system they created to finance military adventurism abroad to serve their ends has itself run out of fake virtual money to spend.

AnimeshP · Post by **AnimeshP** » 11 Sep 2009 08:17

X-posting from Internal Security thread ...

g.kacha wrote:India taps US for a security boost

Excerpts ...

American security experts have been tapped to revamp security in New Delhi, where the South Block (ministry quarter), president's house and parliament are all located in close vicinity, making them a potentially easy target for militants.

The aim of the security upgrade is to replicate security systems installed at the Pentagon in South Block, which also houses the prime minister's office, the Defense, Foreign and Home ministries and the headquarters of the armed forces.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Sep 2009 08:25

Hari Seldon wrote:Dunno whether the fartlantists do or don't own Sri Obama but the latter has, quite nobly, shown himself to be firmly in the grip of special interests, esp of the int'l banking cartel variety.

His latest speech on healthcare also showed him skillfully unable to resist pressure from the powerful med-pharma-insurance lobby in the US.

Meanwhile, EUrostan is making discontent noises about 'PRC unfair trade practices' - something that can only grow as real unemployment levels reach their new normal of ~20% in the emerged mkts of the world.

The Business Secretary, on a visit to Beijing to boost UK-China trade links, also warned on Tuesday that future “tension and disagreement” between China and the EU was inevitable as the trade deficit between China and Europe continues to grow….

Trade relations between Europe and China are under increasing strain, with a series of opinion polls showing that the European public is growing steadily more intolerant of China’s unfair trade practices.

{How quaint. Its the public in emerged mkts that disapproves of unfair phoren competition as opposed to the gubmint of emerging mkt that does obstructs free trade}

Last week, the European Union Chamber of Commerce in China released a report containing 600 pages of complaints by European businesses which had fallen victim to China’s myriad hidden way of discriminating against foreign businesses..

Lord Mandelson said that while such trade was vital to reinvigorating Britain’s economy, there needed to be “constant dialogue” to keep up “legitimate pressure” on China’s government to open its markets more fully.
Whoa, spot-lock-fire about to happen, you say? Not so soon, however

However, he said he did not agree with growing calls from some quarters of the EU for the need to take a tougher stance with Beijing, saying that constructive – as opposed to “conditional” - engagement was in the bests interests of both parties.

“China would say ‘we are a big, complex, fast-growing economy and you have to be patient, give us time’. I understand this, but equally China must understand when we in Europe feel we are being too hard done by.

“These things will even out over time, but in the meanwhile this is going to spark some tension and disagreement, but all of this must be managed because it is in all our interests to see China growing. We would all pay a colossal economic price if China was to fail economically.”
link

Well, initially as I recall, the Atlanticists were ga-ga over China, and were complete Sinophiles.
They were very supportive of Nixon's visit to China, to cultivate it as a counterweight to the Soviets on their Eastern border. It was at that same time that the Atlanticists became extremely derisive of India, by no small coincidence.

Following the Cold War, they I read more than a few glowing articles from them gushing over the numbers of Chinese converting to Catholicism, through which they fantasized the Chinese would become one of them. But it appears that the conversion war has too long a ways to go yet, and that leaves them in the lurch in the meantime. Meanwhile, the US under Obama is also slipping from their grasp. Oh, to be between saviors - how can one last in the meantime!

Here's Brezinski's speech at Whitehead (part 1 of 5):

Particularly check out his comments in Part 3 of 5, @3:25 and @5:00
(The comments @5:00 are quite a contrast to India, wouldn't you say? By that standard, we conduct ourselves like Africans, eh?)

My point is that Europe itself has many divergent interests, and these divergences are again coming to the fore. Not all Europeans think the same way, not all of Europe's component states lean the same way - even in spite of EU's attempts to corral them. If Germany enters a strong embrace with Russia, then EU will have proven to be only a temporary stepping stone to Germany's extrication from its previous strategic predicament.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMol ... 11?sp=true

The Atlanticists can hope that China will collide with Russia one day, but for the near future it's hard to see how they themselves will live with China as an economic competitor, and in the longterm as an independent power outside their orbit.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Sep 2009 08:33

Sanjay M wrote:
The problem is that the special interests who form Obama's core support base don't need the Atlanticists.

The rest of the special interest lobbies in the US don't need the Atlanticists, or to cater to their distracting agenda and its onerous needs.

You have to be realistic in this realistic world.
All these special interest groups are connected. Nothing is in isolation. Just read 63

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Sep 2009 09:23

Acharya wrote: You have to be realistic in this realistic world.
All these special interest groups are connected. Nothing is in isolation. Just read 63

Lalu didn't need VP Singh - not after coming out into the limelight.
Likewise, the headstrong core special interests forming Obama's base -- who the Atlanticists liked to cultivate precisely because they're so headstrong -- have come out into their own.
They don't really want to march to anyone else's tune, when they think they can lead the band.

Perhaps the Obama admin will implode as a result of alienating various vital constituencies. But in the meantime, they think this is their day in the sun.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Sep 2009 12:11

The Pentagon's plans of transferrring Iraq war arms to Pak as PC is discussing joint Indo-US security cooperation is the limit! This too despite earlier US exposes that Pak has modified its anti-ship Harpoon missiles and P-3 Orions for land-attack use against India.PC and SMK should openly condemn the moves and the failure of the US to rein Pak in especially when it is supporting its rent-boy to the hilt with money and arms.There should be a zero-tolerance attitude from India rowards such US duplicity.Beware PC,the pale-face still speaks with a forked tongue.

Charlie Sheen has exploded a bombshell beneath the US admin's desk,claiming that 9/11 was organised by the Bush admin.He claims that upto 9/11 Osama worked for the CIA (fact,during the AfghanWar against the Soviets).

Charlie Sheen claims US government was behind 9/11
Charlie Sheen has prompted outrage in America by claiming that the government was behind the September 11 terror attacks.

Charlie Sheen, who is the highest-paid actor on American televison, claimed that the official 9/11 story is a fraud Photo: AP

In the lead up to today's eighth anniversary of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, which killed more than 3,000 people, the actor has insisted there was a cover-up by the Bush administration.

He appealed to President Barack Obama to reopen an investigation into the attacks, the Daily Mail reports.
Related Articles
9/11 anniversary: America warned to be vigilant
The terrorist threat remains

New Yorkers angry over delays in rebuilding World Trade Centre site Sheen, who is the highest-paid actor on American televison, claimed that "the official 9/11 story is a fraud" and said the commission set up to investigate the attacks was a whitewash.

He said the attacks served "as the pretext for the systematic dismantling of our Constitution and Bill of Rights" and claimed the administration of former president George Bush was behind them.

He even hinted that Osama Bin Laden was working with the CIA up until 9/11.

Sheen, who appears in the hit comedy series Two And A Half Men, made his claims in the transcript of a fictional encounter with Mr Obama, called Twenty Minutes With The President.

It was published on the website of radio show host Alex Jones, PrisonPlanet.com, two days ahead of Sheen's appearance on Jones's show today.

Most of his observations make up the basis of all the conspiracy theories surrounding the terror attack.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... d-911.html

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 11 Sep 2009 17:24

Even if 9/11 were fake and done by Christian fanatics in USA, there are zero chances that Americans will ever accept anything that shows them as evil boys. For them, Islam is bigger evil than a fanatic Pope or religious western Armies.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 17:28

vishwakarmaa wrote:Even if 9/11 were fake and done by Christian fanatics in USA, there are zero chances that Americans will ever accept anything that shows them as evil boys.

The victims of 9/11 are trying very hard to bring the real truth out. But the Media is not supporting them.

vishwakarmaa · Post by **vishwakarmaa** » 11 Sep 2009 17:35

Free press doesn't exist in USA. American media is most controlled in the world.

In my opinion, Pakistani media is more fair and open compared to American media, which is driven by pure corporate anglo-saxon family interests and in tune with government foreign policy.

Western society as a whole doesn't drive on morals but on pure business interests. Morals are not important to them. It has always been like that since ages. Morals for them are only tools, to achieve their business interests.

Americans are true pirates. Professional and never-retiring one. Europeans come at second. Chinese and Russians at third.

Indians are not even pirates. They are still confused with 'morality' and 'genocide' crap. Top boys went forward, cleaned the minorities of their rights and conquered, secured their influence in their homes. Indians are still busy with 'secularism' crap.

How many Muslims there are in American Congress? One? Two? In this best "democracy" of the world, you are not allowed to question the religious background of Congressman. In American media, if someone raised this issue, he would be cut from air. American Constitution doesn't have word 'secularism'. Now compare this to Indian media.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 17:40

City of New York Concedes 9/11 Coalition Has 30,000 Valid Signatures To Put Referendum For 9/11 Investigation on November Ballot

September 10, 2009

New York – In a last minute decision, lawyers for the City of New York have conceded that the New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (NYC CAN), a group comprising 9/11 family members, first responders and survivors, indeed did submit over 30,000 valid signatures to put the referendum for a new 9/11 investigation before the voters of New York City this November.
.
.
.
NYC CAN

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 18:03

vishwakarmaa wrote:Free press doesn't exist in USA. American media is most controlled in the world.

They control the media worldwide. How many people in India will dare to raise the 9/11 question ?

I think the only country which had raised the 911 question was Japan. Video {I have not seen the complete video.}

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Sep 2009 19:57

shravan wrote:
vishwakarmaa wrote:Even if 9/11 were fake and done by Christian fanatics in USA, there are zero chances that Americans will ever accept anything that shows them as evil boys.
The victims of 9/11 are trying very hard to bring the real truth out. But the Media is not supporting them.

That is a ridiculous paranoid left-wing conspiracy theory, like the Apollo moon landings being fake, and in this case it only serves to let the Islamists off the hook. Hamid Gul also claims that 9/11 was an "inside job" by the US govt. Islamists will of course gladly cling to conspiracy theories offered by others, just as they've pounced on left-wing accusations that Modi is a mass-murderer.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 20:13

Sanjay M wrote: That is a ridiculous paranoid left-wing conspiracy theory, like the Apollo moon landings being fake, and in this case it only serves to let the Islamists off the hook.

9/11 family members and survivors are asking for the truth not the Islamists.

Why is America not answering this Questions

Some of the questions are very interesting. Please take a look.
--

You are calling them Conspiracy Theorist because American Media Calls them that. Do you believe in Global Warming ?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 11 Sep 2009 20:15

Sanjay M wrote:
All these special interest groups are connected. Nothing is in isolation. Just read 63

Lalu didn't need VP Singh - not after coming out into the limelight.
Likewise, the headstrong core special interests forming Obama's base -- who the Atlanticists liked to cultivate precisely because they're so headstrong -- have come out into their own.
They don't really want to march to anyone else's tune, when they think they can lead the band.

Perhaps the Obama admin will implode as a result of alienating various vital constituencies. But in the meantime, they think this is their day in the sun.

Dont bring Lalu into this
Global economy will tame every group

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 11 Sep 2009 20:21

A part of Indian media itself is controlled by west.Dont want to name them for some reason.
While keeping the media aside,a majority of the politicians and even citizens themself were inspired by the yankee fascinating toys(Toys= frame your own meaning,since it has over a million synonyms)
If a major chunk of them population themself were sold out to an Allien country ,no wonder we are still after yanks .
I been pushing hard to let people know about the Alliens true faces.Even though after experience a lot of their behaviourism Indo minds arent loosing the zeal of concentration.
Does any one wondered why a sudden change in the tone of Iran regarding the nukes?Alliens are the shame less creatures, they wont even hesitate to go and sleep with enemy in case of need.
At the same time people does have to wonder about the recent change in metabolism between Israel and Russia.It was clearly proved that the Israeli interests will be threatened if the US-Iran diplomacy changes course.
To counter the allien-pariah effect Israel signed a couple of treaties with Russia with out letting any other nation know.It took an 'U' turn over Georgia.The same nation attested the independence of Abkhazia and South-Ossetia.

I really feel that the Indians are the really dumbest of all.With a lot of geo-political advances all over the world,India is still struck with its turtle nature.Again one has to wonder what made US to own a whole bombed building and truth behind it converting into an Embassy ?
What is the flavour behind a recent bridging between US and china? Why do US want China to be part of a bi-polar world?
Guys ask yourself.The stuff that we see on a day to day basis is totally different to what is been cooked behind the screens.I myself was once happy that US is supporting India.But after knowing its true face,I felt ashamed.
A humble request is that don`t be urself a pawn of those US moves which might give added momentum to full fill their own interests.

Jai Hind.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 11 Sep 2009 20:28

shravan wrote:
Sanjay M wrote: That is a ridiculous paranoid left-wing conspiracy theory, like the Apollo moon landings being fake, and in this case it only serves to let the Islamists off the hook.
9/11 family members and survivors are asking for the truth not the Islamists.

Was is America not answering this Questions

Some of the questions are very interesting. Please take a look.
--

You are calling them Conspiracy Theorist because American Media Calls them that. Do you believe in Global Warming ?

Questions For F.B.I. Director Mueller
Regarding the Hijackers

March 18, 2004

1. Please explain how the passports of Mohammed Atta and Satam al-Sugam, both on Flight 11, survived the inferno to be found on the street near the World Trade Center.
http://www.11alive.com/news/usnews_arti ... ryid=42069

• Who found the passports and what time where they found?
• Please describe the condition of each passport.
• Please explain how the passports of two hijackers survived the explosion and inferno.

2. How many other passports belonging to passengers on any of the four hijacked flights have been found?

• Which flights were they on, to whom did they belong?
• When and where were they found?
• Please describe their condition.

lol.....US is a technologically advanced Allien Nation on this planet.poor citizens of US are downgrading their unknown technological prowess.

CIA can re-create any passports from the asses.be it a afghan national or any other.

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 11 Sep 2009 20:37

shravan wrote:
Sanjay M wrote: That is a ridiculous paranoid left-wing conspiracy theory, like the Apollo moon landings being fake, and in this case it only serves to let the Islamists off the hook.
9/11 family members and survivors are asking for the truth not the Islamists.

Why is America not answering this Questions

Some of the questions are very interesting. Please take a look.
--

You are calling them Conspiracy Theorist because American Media Calls them that. Do you believe in Global Warming ?

I don't see any benefit to India from giving the Islamofundas a free pass, which is what you're doing.
Yes, the US armed and trained them during the 1980s and early 1990s, but that doesn't make the Islamists innocents. Your excuse-making only serves to get them off the hook for their crimes. To me, that's not a pro-India position.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 20:43

Sanjay M wrote: I don't see any benefit to India from giving the Islamofundas a free pass, which is what you're doing.

Yes, the US armed and trained them during the 1980s and early 1990s, but that doesn't make the Islamists innocents. Your excuse-making only serves to get them off the hook for their crimes. To me, that's not a pro-India position.

The America is using the terrorists organizations (Al QAeda, etc.) for its own benefits. I am not saying that it was the Americans who hijacked the plane and crashed it into twin towers.

I am only trying to say is America was very well aware of the 9/11 attacks and they helped them to get visas.

I think CBS - The Spy Story exposes some of the links.

Please don't trust the American Media blindly.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 20:59

The news channel Russia Today has published a number of articles dealing with skepticism on September 11, 2001.

http://www.russiatoday.com/Politics.html
September, 2009

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 11 Sep 2009 21:11

because that is the only way western civilization can survive and improve. without an enemy for existensial threat. they simpley whither away.

jaladipc wrote:A part of Indian media itself is controlled by west.Dont want to name them for some reason.
While keeping the media aside,a majority of the politicians and even citizens themself were inspired by the yankee fascinating toys(Toys= frame your own meaning,since it has over a million synonyms)
If a major chunk of them population themself were sold out to an Allien country ,no wonder we are still after yanks .
I been pushing hard to let people know about the Alliens true faces.Even though after experience a lot of their behaviourism Indo minds arent loosing the zeal of concentration.
Does any one wondered why a sudden change in the tone of Iran regarding the nukes?Alliens are the shame less creatures, they wont even hesitate to go and sleep with enemy in case of need.
At the same time people does have to wonder about the recent change in metabolism between Israel and Russia.It was clearly proved that the Israeli interests will be threatened if the US-Iran diplomacy changes course.
To counter the allien-pariah effect Israel signed a couple of treaties with Russia with out letting any other nation know.It took an 'U' turn over Georgia.The same nation attested the independence of Abkhazia and South-Ossetia.

I really feel that the Indians are the really dumbest of all.With a lot of geo-political advances all over the world,India is still struck with its turtle nature.Again one has to wonder what made US to own a whole bombed building and truth behind it converting into an Embassy ?
What is the flavour behind a recent bridging between US and china? Why do US want China to be part of a bi-polar world?
Guys ask yourself.The stuff that we see on a day to day basis is totally different to what is been cooked behind the screens.I myself was once happy that US is supporting India.But after knowing its true face,I felt ashamed.
A humble request is that don`t be urself a pawn of those US moves which might give added momentum to full fill their own interests.

Jai Hind.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 22:05

Translated Link
September 11: What we know

September 11, 2009

<snip>

What we supposed to think well of this section of Times of India, dated October 9, 2001?

I tried to contact the author by mail, Manoj Joshi in vain for the moment ... The information it delivers, absolutely crucial to the alleged financing of September 11 by the ISI, confirmed, he said, the FBI, is, as stated in BHL Who Killed Daniel Pearl? "The great unspoken of America George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld. " Information considered "safe" by Patrick Pesnot in Rendezvous with X on France Inter in May 2009 but, conversely, "not credible" by former intelligence officer Eric Denécé interviewed in January 2009. As for Le Figaro journalist Marie-France Calle, asked in December 2008 following an article she had spent the plot by Omar Saeed Sheikh from his cell to assassinate Musharraf, she had simply replied: "I little other evidence that you are the role played by Sheikh Omar in the preparation of the attacks of September 11, 2001 in the United States. I read your article with interest. "

We understand that we do not see the world quite the same way, as it considers this information credible or not. For if it is true, the immediate implication is that the U.S. "cover" one of the major leaders of the attacks - former ISI chief Mahmoud Ahmad was never molested by anyone. If Manoj Joshi has not been a victim of corporate poisoning (so no one knows), his paper (certainly preceded by that of Dawn) is the most explosive ever published on September 11, the beginning of an unpredictable chain reaction.
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Translated From French

what does the above mean ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Sep 2009 22:54

Shravan please start a 9/11 thread and then these posts can be moved there.

Thakns, ramana

BTW here is one for you

The Pakistan Connection from Guardian by Michael Meacher

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 11 Sep 2009 23:03

The day we have a critical mass of opinion on BR that reads like "Al Qaeda is controlled by the CIA" is the day we prove that this is no better than a jihadi apologist forum in terms of its worldview.

You can always find "unanswered questions" on any event, including how someone was conceived to how someone died, but to extrapolate that to "US = Al Qaeda" is risible and smacks of jihadi low-IQ arguments.

Note that it is perfectly possible for the US to cover up TSPA links to 9/11 without the US itself being involved in the act. It is also perfectly plausible to have embarassing pieces of evidence covered up to save key people from being charged with incompetence, but to blame the US govt for 9/11 is unworthy of even discussion here.

There is conceptually nothing different between a Hameed Gul and people who accuse the US government to be behind 9/11. Both are pulling "facts" out of their rear end to conform to a preexisting worldview.

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 11 Sep 2009 23:11

Rangudu wrote:"US = Al Qaeda" is risible and smacks of jihadi low-IQ arguments.

NSA was tracking the Hijackers from 1999 and they were on their radar. IIRC, NSA even monitored the AQ Yemen Office where OBL used to call.

Please Watch: NOVA | The Spy Factory | PBS. To understand some of the links.

LOW IQ People - http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

--
ramana garu,

I am not going to open a new thread on 911. Its too late now.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Sep 2009 23:26

lets not discuss 9/11 in this thread anymore.

Thanks all,
ramana

bahdada · Post by **bahdada** » 11 Sep 2009 23:39

Deleted. Please see above post. Thanks ramana

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 12 Sep 2009 00:04

Global powers face big problems to win climate deal
Fri Sep 11, 2009

* American official refers to developed/developing divisions
* Russia wants restrictions on all big polluters
* China says global climate talks face enormous problems
* South Africa calls for just solution

<snip>

Britain said this week that talks in Denmark to agree a successor to the Kyoto Protocol would fail unless politicians from developing countries focused more on the longer-term climate threat and not an economic downturn.

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US praises India, China for taking action on climate change
Lalit K Jha/ PTI / Washington September 11, 2009, 9:05 IST

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 12 Sep 2009 00:09

It almost reads like conspiracy theory competition in last couple of pages.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Sep 2009 00:29

Yeah thats why I requested no more.

ramana

Sanjay M · Post by **Sanjay M** » 12 Sep 2009 06:08

What would 9/11 have been like in the age of social media?

http://blogs.laweekly.com/style_council ... ke-in-the/

Masaru · Post by **Masaru** » 12 Sep 2009 06:32

US floats new disarmament measure

The measure called on states that have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) "to comply fully with all their obligations under the treaty" and for others to become signatories "so as to achieve its universality at an early date, and in any case to adhere to its terms."

Urging all nations to "refrain from conducting a nuclear test explosion," the text also pressed for more countries to join the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) in order to "bring the treaty into force."

The text pressed for stricter export control measures for nuclear technology and related sensitive materials.

This explains the recent call for review of S-2 yield and also renewed doubts over the nuclear deal.