Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

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peter
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by peter »

Arjun wrote:
peter wrote:IMHO this is the JNU/AMU/western "erudite" line. On the contrary India has always been a nation. Don't people pray to the same Gods North South East West? Don't they have similar culture?
Of course it is a nation, united by Dharmic thought and practices that evolved millenia before the Abrahamic religions did.

But - Dharmic thought does not insist on homogeneity. Hence the enormous diversity that you see in India that is more akin to the European continent, which though united by its Christian beliefs - never managed to forge a common cultural identity that India did.

Anyway, what is the relevance of this conversation to Modi or the Dynasty?
India looks like Europe is the argument of Khalistani types and the Pakistani types. I.E people who think balkanization of India is inevitable ala Europe. Fact is even in Indian genes you see largely homogenity.

This debate started because someone mentioned Republic day should not be celebrated in Mughal Delhi.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by peter »

Karan M wrote:What facts? The claims made above are pure semantics. Three years in a job for a 42 year old man? Thats sticking for long? What a joke. What exactly did he do in those three years btw? MPhil in developmental economics? Another fluff degree for a privileged scion like the MBA from Harvard for bush, at least that carried more weight. I am sorry but none of this cuts any ice with those of us who know exactly what all this BS is worth. Folks who are INC supporters may be impressed with these paper claims or more cynically use them to play up this guy, but what matters is the reality. A senior just pointed out that RUssi Mody had a BA compare his dedication and work ethic to this gasbag. In India we have paid a huge price fr going with all these manufactured catchets of privilege as versus identifying the real workers and doers, the reason why more and more doers are increasingly cynical the moment they hear of these claims..
All these manufactured qualifications are exactly that because each time Rahul opens his mouth, its akin to seeing the inside of a wind tunnel....an empty chamber.
And we should also think about educational qualifications of Bill Gates, Michael Dell etc.

Education qualification of Rahul should be discussed w.r.t how he flunked out of Harvard.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

svenkat wrote:
What facts?
That Rahul is an idiot and imbecile is well known.But he still has a BA,a M.Phil in Devl E-con(whatever it is) and three years in some consulting group.Each of this degree/job has relevance to the job he is being groomed for.I dont see a huge difference between Rahuls degree etc and the edn/experience son of a big businessman who is groomed to take over.
That you can't see the difference just speaks volumes for how the Congress has managed to s*crew India over & how even erudite folks like you constantly fall for their propaganda, while claiming that they are being unbiased! This is mental colonization pure and simple, sire. In India, trot out a few fancy buzzwords from a handful of foren universities or the local three letters, and automatically deference starts. This actually deserves a doc style pisk post in entirety about the con that is being perpetuated, as versus looking at people who actually do the work & dont boast of fancy credentials! Think about how many people get away with these cons.

So what if he has a BA, a MPhil in whatever and some consulting group job! Look around you - in the India of today, every child of some scion has managed to get by with some degree shegree and work experience! What matters is what they do thereafter. Do they stick it out, or run for a life of affluence and zero responsibility?

If you can't see the difference, God help India & in fact, even He may have given up.
What matters, plain and simple is diligence! Do you or do you not stick a career and get it done? Do you or do you not have passion, interest, sincerity! RG has none of these attributes. He is, as one wag put it, a reluctant groom forced to marry, so that the baraatis can continue with their plans for a wedding feast!

Look at the example given prior of Russi Mody or the recent gent who took over the Tata chairmanship from Ratan Tata. There are umpteen people who were educated in some field and by virtue of grit and sincerity made it in others. They became what they were on the basis of hard work!
They are streets ahead of this man whom you are attempting to defend, since they worked, pure and simple and did not sit around enjoying life and doing photo ops when forced to do so!
The Congress is big business which manages India.It manages multiple identities,multiple conflict of interests.I think Rahuls degrees etc are perfectly right for his job.What does Congress do? It supports Indian businesses,Indian businesses profit making,reservations for OBCs/SCs,jobs for technocrats,subsidies for poor.I suppose Developmental Economics is relevant to this profile.
The congress in many ways is a kleptocracy, to use Matt Taibi's words it is a vampire squid wrapped around the face of India, sucking every bit of blood out for its own benefit. The amount of money that has flown into India post liberalization boggles the mind. What is equally obvious is the utter shambles that is GOI, with corruption creaking out of every edifice, something that was institutionalized by the Congress. And if the earlier quasi civil wars instigated by the Congress in Punjab and Assam, somethings which we endure to this day are not enough, now we have the poison of hindu terror being brewed to court votes with no concern for what its doing to the society at large.
This is the sort of idiocy that has gone on with RG being a willing participant.

You can suppose Developmental Economics is relevant for this profile, but that supposition would fall flat because there is no evidence whatsoever that RG has shown any dedication let alone brilliance in any one field that is related to development OR economics!!

So even if RG trained himself to be a kleptocrat, leading a group of kleptocrats, all the available evidence is that he is mediocre at it. His advisors are venal, he is either phenomenally incompetent or part of the pack.

If he is the former, then some ways we should count our blessings that his leadership may knock the INC a few pegs down (and perhaps one day it may return to an ounce of sanity and honesty and become the INC as versus the PNC). As he is clearly neither a savvy technocrat, or a people person who can take a team along
Until Narendrabhai comes out with a game changing vision for India which has widespread(no need for even majority support much less total) support,there will be people who are benefeting from status quo who will tom tom rahuls 'credentials'.
What does Narendrabhai have to do with the debate on RG's credentials? The discussion is about RG, pure and simple. If anything, it exposes how mediocre RG is, if one brings NM in - here is a man without any fancy claims or pedigree, who has faced unprecedented character assassination, but bu virtue of performance alone has risen to the top. If anything, he just shows how low the standards in India are, when some degrees and cosy posts won on the basis of political privilege are touted as examples of success!!
The Congress is the entrenched party.For it these fake qualifications are good enough to continue the status quo because there are other smart people to run the show from behind.
Is that so? Are those smart people the ones responsible for the near complete absence of law & order in significant portions of this country, the near complete corruption in the same system, the economic mess that is in the country today, the haphazard & graft ridden defence procurement system etc..? Please, enough of this. The so called smart people behind RG are good at winning the elections by manipulating significant sections of an illiterate electorate that looks for short term gains, and manipulating a neutered middle class via bought out media & other methods. None of this makes them admirable, or smart. It makes them venal & absolutely shameful
The person who posted this is AmberGji.She is a Professor of Physics in US(if I understand correctly).She has been single handedly responsible for keeping the maths thread alive since its inception.Hardly someone who can be deceived on academic matters.So I suppose I have a point in X posting her post.
Irrelevant. First, this lady is not residing in India. Those in India suffer the idiocy of the INC, not her. She has happily made her career and life in a country where RG would be thrown out, and whose system warts and all is streets ahead of India. This lady or person, is sitting outside India, doesn't have to suffer the consequences of RGs decision-making and the end result of the support of such experts.
And second, you just demonstrated - yet again - how you constantly fall for the argument from authority angle, even when aforesaid person has no relevance whatsoever in the topic under question!!

Reminds me of the Nobel Laureate who quipped when receiving the award - "now i can proudly comment on womens fashion" etc.

There is a huge group of people, who for the sake of all sorts of reasons, think of the Congress as "theirs" and constantly end up defending it, even whilst reluctantly admitting its "few" faults.

Guess what, it doesn't matter. Because the party that he is heading is venal, is dividing India & has mismanaged the economy even whilst presiding over a loot that would have made Nadir Shah wonder. And instead of recognizing the gravity of the situation, here you are, seeking to somehow quibble over whether this prince has "credentials".
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

nachiket wrote:Talking about RG's academic qualifications is futile. Our present PM's substantial qualifications aren't in question. Yet his government has managed to grind our economy into dust in the last 5 years.
Exactly. To those who take umbrage at shri Abhijeets unabashed description of a lot of Indians lacking intelligence, or rather being gullible or brainwashed thanks to lacking proper education or the ability to start thinking for themselves at a national level (and beyond tactical considerations of caste and creed), the manner in which the current PM's media managers used his "qualifications" to sway a gullible public, are a perfect example.

By virtue of his claimed honesty (as if any honest person could survive such a dishonest regime) and being an e-con-omist,he managed to get the approval of the Indian public for UPA 2!! Even when the signs then were of a disaster underway.

Like it or not, many Indians have an automatic deference for foren and fancy paper-shaper, plus a medieval-feudal era mindset that lets them be ok with people of privilege having a different set of rules...that translates into complete freedom for making a monkey out the Indian public.
RG's great grandfather also seemed to be academically qualified to lead the nation. Yet the chinese made a monkey out of him. And he started the economic policies that hamstrung our nation for 40 years.

So whether RG got his M. Phil or not is beside the point. He can be a nincompoop with or without a degree.
Exactly.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

peter wrote:And we should also think about educational qualifications of Bill Gates, Michael Dell etc
Most of the Indian Bill Gates and Michael Dells were strangled thanks to the layers of red tape (an INC specialty used to control the business community), those that made it abroad were few. Others worked with the system to enrich themselves (and pass on the loot).
Tavleen Singh's Durbar has a ringside view of how this started off in India. Makes for depressing even if honest reading
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

A new Durbar is being assembled around RG Jr. This time it is filled with ivy-league grads and commies. I am sure new tavleen Singh's will come out in 20-30 yrs but by that time it can be too late.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Karan M »

A lot of people support the INC for all sorts of reasons, the asinine elitist "people like us" group (e.g. your ivy league grad group who "identify" with "urbane RG" versus "communal rustic NM") to outright vested interests (paid media/tactical caste-creed votebanks) or even the older gen who have a fond hankering for the Nehru-Gandhis.

It really doesn't matter, because India is headed towards trouble or another decade of sheer inertia.

Lets take the middle class - because in this group, there are multiple groups in turn.. the so called faith in India story is increasingly a product of the younger gen (who are too young to even understand the writing on the wall, right now life is one big party) and the older gen (busy harrumphing about declining values and "but but INC has some positives").
Second - the urbane yuppie crowd who can run off with fancy networks and degree-shegree will do so. Their idea of being global citizens is anyways there. So they dont care.
Third - there is a huge go-abroad, settle abroad swell developing amongst another group who has seen better options or just wants anything apart from what is there in India today.
Fourth group - the biggest- who remains muddled, and is unable to articulate its impotent rage into anything tangible because of confused messages from the media & the 24/7 opinion managers. People with family, ties and who cant leave. But they cant/wont solve any issues either.

In short the middle class is one big muddle class. These are the so called people expected to save India? Wont happen.

The poor will as always give 2 hoots for rights, morals or the future. They will vote for the party with the sops as they always have, and continue perpetuating the system.

The rich/elite - they are beneficiaries of the current system. They want it to survive.

Whats going to be interesting to watch, akin to the chinese back handed adage, may you live in interesting times - is when the huge group of youngsters currently involved in worthless FB'ing, enjoying their teens & busy being idealists etc - end up having to compete for survival in an economy which has no place for them.

That, and the continued problems that will continue to plague the other 50%, the poor. The treasury is going to run dry, and so will the easy money.
This year, there was already talk of increasing the tax net from the TDS folks.

In every Indian metro, the gulf between the rich & the poor is widening & the aspirations are increasing, not decreasing. Maid servants have kids who want LCD TVs, want good clothes etc. India's so called demographic dividend is being squandered- that is one thing. The other. What happens when their aspirations are not met. The Maoists are the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid.

Another huge issue? The disaster that is Indian infrastructure. No matter how well educated or well placed you are, unless you are living in one of the better states, stuff like drinking water, proper electricity, sanitation is still not there for many folks. Our metros are creaking under the influx of immigrants. Last and perhaps the biggest danger, the complete corruption in every facet of Indian administration today, from recording assets to enforcement.

All in all, the India story has hit a huge snag in the past 8 years, and only those who have the ability to either ignore all this (things were worse before) or tourists (NRIs who visit India for a few months and then disappear) can be positive about the way things are going. Such a massive opportunity squandered.

Talking to people, the desperation many show to run off from India, even whilst professing otherwise, is tangible. Saw it a few months back, when a NRI showing off pics of his house in US, had an admiring crowd hanging around. Everyone was then discussing ways to go to US. Cant blame them, look at affordable housing in metros in India? Non existent. All these things add up.

Amazing thing is that most Indian folks won't even understand or care how their own voting choices have partly caused the current impasse. Truly, the impact of the media & propaganda on the middle class is awesome to behold.

If Modi becomes the PM or that Parrikar guy - perhaps we have a chance. A good administrator who can give his all for the next 8 odd years is required at the very minimum. All this BS of secular-communal is the timepass of ivory tower idiots who sip wine & talk of idealogy when the need of hour is effective governance. A firm hand is needed at the wheel, and instead we have these worthless debates about riots from a decade back. Idiots who have not worked a day in their life and have churned out stupid copy paste columns in newspapers which arent worth a darn, are busy advising worker-bees how to live their life.

God help us if there is a UPA3, headed by the prince. Some parts of the establishment will continue on auto-throttle, but the amount of graft and underperformance in an already malafide system, will reach critical levels. All these talks of GDP etc, are all analyst mumbo-jumbo, I'm afraid. They totally ignore quality of life concerns which do matter.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

>> India's so called demographic dividend is being squandered- that is one thing. The other. What happens when their
>> aspirations are not met. The Maoists are the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid.

we see a glimpse in ggn/haryana/punjab/north east/urban hipster crowd....drugs and drink. a lot of teens live a life their future personal incomes cannot sustain. once their parental support runs out, which it will, what next?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by fanne »

Nice post Karan, and if I may add, the biggest weapon (and a dishonest one) that INC wields is the MSM. The MSM with 24/7 brain washing (and not even blogs of alternate viewpoint allowed, what to talk about TV or paper, see Kanchan being censored), the muddle class has its opium of secularism/cricket and films and cannot see it's a$$ from its mouth. They are happy to either not care or vote Con. But this is not the biggest challenge, the bigger one is that from this right wing group (including all), the need for media management is dismissed, with one liner, it does not matter!! Did India get independence due to NDTV? If Media is important how did Modi win? Sometimes it is hard to decide, who the adversary here is?
rgds,
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

i think the asinine aspirations in the middle class in general where they want go any extent (no matter if they are getting cheated in the end game) to make money on the fast lane. from real estate to even investment returns like various frauds and ponzies still people are found investing in them.

the craze is to become rich, and by the way show it better than your neighbor can. no check on usability, product specs, purpose, etc. people are just crazy in the pissing contest. i am not sure this is healthy for the nation, where there is no bankruptcy law, no support for sustained wages of minimum standards, minimum services requirements, minimum living requirements, (example maassan apartment: a stove + fridge is a must, and not tv). so bare mimimum to survive based on economic status.

now, rest should be about avenues and opportunity to make money in the legal way.. this is hardly the case, if people wanted money by being regular employees, simply it is impossible to save.. and one gets in to RE sector where the black money is what making hay.

The current system, whoever made it (INC or aam indics ) is going to go kaput soon!
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Kudos Karan M. A very pointed and meaningful piece. Well done Sir.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by negi »

Vintage stuff boss. :mrgreen:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Wow! Tour-de-force of dooom+glooom. Run Ramu Runn....

Which brings me to repeat my question, why has it proven so easy to shunt the Hindu right wing off the MSM? Any thoughts other than CT's.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Wow! Tour-de-force of dooom+glooom. Run Ramu Runn....

Which brings me to repeat my question, why has it proven so easy to shunt the Hindu right wing off the MSM? Any thoughts other than CT's.
Umm isnt the answer well known starting from 1951? Do you have any particular dislike of that answer? (institutionalizationized Nehruvianism in the social sciences department)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Aditya_V »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Wow! Tour-de-force of dooom+glooom. Run Ramu Runn....

Which brings me to repeat my question, why has it proven so easy to shunt the Hindu right wing off the MSM? Any thoughts other than CT's.
A Hint, a Pro Modi TV was launched in Gujarat elections- it was taken off air in 2 days.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Neela »

Centuries of beating down the collective Indian psyche has led to a general opinion that anything out of India is considered unworthy of anything at all. So anything foreign is looked up to. But the same furreign influence has a huge disconnect with rural India. And lately , I have come to detest anyone with a foreign degree / foreign stay / foreign origin taking a active or even a pontificating stand on all matters Indian.
It would be naeive of us to think that RG's opinions would have not have been "shaped" (both intentionally and as a natural consequence ) when he was in Briturdia. When you spend your younger years elsewhere, opinions, thinking, conflict resolution, culture, talking, feeling, understanding is shaped by the environment. It is a cultural thing. And you start viewing things not in an Indian way. It baffles me as to why RG took a Briturd to a villager's house to demonstrate her poverty. Would any Indian be invited to an alcoholic Briturd's house to demo Queenistan's problems?
Contrast that with Modi. He paid his obeisance to the PAtel community after the elections. That act indicates that he knows how to go about making his role bigger ...he is saying "look I know we have not been on good terms. But I need you guys to support me when I move towards Delhi. I won the election...but yet I come with humility to you before my onward journey" Subtle.
-----
More and more , I am moving to an opinion that there is no such thing as secularism. Freedom of faith withing Indian religions is okay. Not for monotheistic barbaric religions or kid-fondlers. The fact that both of these religions sprang out of a desert some ~2000 years ago where tribal thoughts and harsh conditions shaped practices is the primary reason. Surviving in the desert was hard. So you needed a gang/tribe and loyalty. One tribe fought against another and took the loot and became stronger. Theystayed together , lived together and hunted together and loyalty must be shown. Now look at Islam and Christianity. Don't they exhibit the same behavior. A mass or a Friday prayer that one must be in to re-affirm the loyalty. Contrast that with million Indian gods and true freedom of belief . What is happening is that mlecchic practices are imposed in a land unwonted to it - this leads to conflict.
There is another aspect to this. Every culture is capable of collecting vasts amount of knowledge over 1000s of years based on the environment it is in. But When these foreign cultures take root in India, what they do is discard ancient practices by attributing it to religion. And practices are imposed. Take for example the Indian weather almanac and the "Rithou" . Six seasons of 2 months each. But what do schools teach us? Four seasons and includes autumn. The price we pay for secularism is killing off rational thinking.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Neela wrote: More and more , I am moving to an opinion that there is no such thing as secularism. Freedom of faith withing Indian religions is okay. Not for monotheistic barbaric religions or kid-fondlers..
Yes, there can be no equality without discernment.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

Shiv Sena is also B-team of congress.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/nda-a ... 130129.htm
Sena had recently slammed Modi, the BJP’s Hindutva poster-boy, for allowing the Pakistan cricket team to play a match at Rajkot.

An editorial in the Sena mouthpiece Saamana had said that while the Gujarat government had turned away a 22-member Pakistani delegation, which had come down to participate in the ‘Vibrant Gujarat’ summit, due to India's [ Images ] strained relations with that country, "a fortnight ago, the entire Pakistani cricket team was playing in Rajkot".

"If Modi government had sent the Pakistani cricketers back in a similar manner, there would have been another feather of patriotism in Gujarat’s cap. Maharashtra [ Images ] and Gujarat must join hands to fight the battle against the Pakistanis," said the editorial in the newspaper, which has Sena president Uddhav Thackeray [ Images ] as the editor.
Interesting, now NaMo is also not saffron enough (as I said, this is a game which can be played by anyone against anyone)

Any comments on NaMo being compromising types?
:-)
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by BhairavP »

^Read up on the history of the SS, it was basically backed by the Congis to destroy the Commie trade unions in Bombay mills.. most definitely a Congie B-team, IMO. In fact, if the BJP had the ba**s, they would ditch the SS and go straight with the MNS + RPI.. NCP would mostly join them as well.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Arjun »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Which brings me to repeat my question, why has it proven so easy to shunt the Hindu right wing off the MSM? Any thoughts other than CT's.
Journalism has hardly ever drawn the best or even the middling brains in the country...Folks with decent IQ land up in STEM fields, and those with "humanities" type background dominate MSM. Further, even the lower-IQ folks who were into humanities were fed a diet of Western Philosophy - quite bizarre for a country with a very strong philosophy of its own.

The situation is changing now - as both better quality folks get into journalism and hopefully at some point, the humanities type will also grow up more aware of Indian philosophical achievements. At the same time of course, social media means that MSM is becoming increasingly irrelevant for reaching the urban middle-class.

Having said all this - its quite amazing that wealthy Hindus have not banded together to takeover a TV channel or newspaper of their choice.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

BhairavP wrote:^Read up on the history of the SS, it was basically backed by the Congis to destroy the Commie trade unions in Bombay mills.. most definitely a Congie B-team, IMO. In fact, if the BJP had the ba**s, they would ditch the SS and go straight with the MNS + RPI.. NCP would mostly join them as well.
Well then how is going with B-team of B-team (MNS) and INC by another name (NCP) a better solution if SS is also the B-team of congress? (btw I do NOT think SS is b-team of congress in any which way)

Further more the point raised by SS is valid, Modi did allow Paki's to play cricket at this juncture -- many others have been called much worse by others for lesser crimes.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

BhairavP ji, iss hamaam mein sub nange hein.

But self interest is an ever evolving idea linked with survival and development not with who did what, when. If INC could go down so bad despite a big presence of Hindus and despite the towering presence of Sardar, what to expect of lesser mortals in relatively newer political setups. So moderate expectations are good and hold the hope of windfall gains too.

That is why I support NM. Within the available choices he is the best bet. Self interest.

And while he is on the job he may need to do business with all kinds of people. Self interest.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

SS is hafta collecting party. Do something so that some hafta comes from somewhere. Anti-Modi is a necessity for congies so it is easy to be on the anti-Modi side for a future goodies. At some point when it starts to be diminishing dividends, folks will start to rally around the leader. Another think is Raj is openly Modi supporter and Uddav has to show they are different. Late Bal also supported Sushma.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

Arjun wrote:Having said all this - its quite amazing that wealthy Hindus have not banded together to takeover a TV channel or newspaper of their choice.
All the institutions from policing to tax are not independent. If you just see the money behind the news channels, most of it is very filthy. Getting into mainstream cable/air and sustain there is very expensive. All those journos, the channels' executioners are once producers on DD. These private channels such as TimesTV, NDTV etc are nothing but extensions of 1980s DD. In fact there are a lot of dynasties that are loyal to the dynasty. If you have an independent thought and your TV is a threat no ad will come because the instructions will be to not put ads in your channel. The large cables will either not take yours on the line up or it will some 10009 channel that is not readily tunable.

Zee TV was able to beat the establishment but as a survivor the hands are wet with slush. He has limitations and if he crosses certain limitations he will be out. He works in a narrow lane.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Yagnasri »

SS is with BJP for a long time. So ditching them would be bit difficult. RPI is well come but MNC is difficult and BJP will be killed in HIndi belt.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by BhairavP »

Sanku wrote:
BhairavP wrote:^Read up on the history of the SS, it was basically backed by the Congis to destroy the Commie trade unions in Bombay mills.. most definitely a Congie B-team, IMO. In fact, if the BJP had the ba**s, they would ditch the SS and go straight with the MNS + RPI.. NCP would mostly join them as well.
Well then how is going with B-team of B-team (MNS) and INC by another name (NCP) a better solution if SS is also the B-team of congress? (btw I do NOT think SS is b-team of congress in any which way)

Further more the point raised by SS is valid, Modi did allow Paki's to play cricket at this juncture -- many others have been called much worse by others for lesser crimes.
Sanku saar, I got carried away a little bit, but what irks is that they can't put aside their elephant-sized egos and support one candidate from the BJP with one voice - why oppose NM just because Raj supports him?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

BhairavP wrote: Sanku saar, I got carried away a little bit, but what irks is that they can't put aside their elephant-sized egos and support one candidate from the BJP with one voice - why oppose NM just because Raj supports him?
Bhairav-ji, we can accuse Indian politicians of being many things, but one thing they are not, they do not let their egos get in the way of political fortunes, this is unlikely to be knee jerk reaction from SS because Raj supported him, they have in past supported NaMo too. Bala Saheb particularly spoke well of him.

The reasons (we need to understand) -- can be multiple, this may be posturing, in politics everyone who supports you may not be your friend, it is entirely possible that YS raised Modi as PM to expressly preempt that possibility by making a premature launch. OTOH SS may be trying to not take sides in a BJP internal struggle and sitting it out.

My greater point was that Modi as PM is by no means forgone conclusion, it needs to be carefully planned and a suitable time, there are too many opponents and Modi too needs National experience before he can be PM.

We are walking a minefield here, some one else should do the point duty other than BJPs most valuable asset innt?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Singha »

every potential 'doubter' in BJP like yashwant sinha, ram jethmalani, rajnath singh, sushma swaraj has within one week publicly endorsed Namo for PM candidature....

is that a good thing or smells of some CT?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by RamaY »

It is a bit scary... especially the likes of jetmalanis.... if d4 have no political base, jetmalanis have no base at all... more over their profession makes them very close to c-system... and many times there will be conflict of interest...
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

^^^^
Jethmalanis or Sushma or the D4 are not dangerous. The danger only comes from those characters who are neither visible as a friend nor as a foe but quitely does the destruction. Such characters are the reasons for 2009 poor show of BJP. These characters are behind Modi's loss of 6 seats in Gujarat and same types are reason behind MP's unexpected losses. The same ensured that B.C.Kandhuri loses UK. We unfortunately on this forum when we discuss we brand all D4 as some villians and Nuhruvian etc. The real soboteurs are the ones who ensured that LKA does not become PM in 2009 and are the same who campaigned for Keshubhai Patal and are all over the BJP's geography.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ShyamSP »

Muppalla wrote:^^^^
Jethmalanis or Sushma or the D4 are not dangerous. The danger only comes from those characters who are neither visible as a friend nor as a foe but quitely does the destruction. Such characters are the reasons for 2009 poor show of BJP. These characters are behind Modi's loss of 6 seats in Gujarat and same types are reason behind MP's unexpected losses. The same ensured that B.C.Kandhuri loses UK. We unfortunately on this forum when we discuss we brand all D4 as some villians and Nuhruvian etc. The real soboteurs are the ones who ensured that LKA does not become PM in 2009 and are the same who campaigned for Keshubhai Patal and are all over the BJP's geography.
Muppalla garu,
Can you put some names to who is behind? Are they in BJP or Congress or outside political parties?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

In BJP itself.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by member_20317 »

This seat warming idea is IMO neither necessary nor advisable.

There have been so many people with little helmsmanship at national level that have become PM. Hell Obama became a head of state our to nowhere. In any case every aspirant to the PM's position cannot be expected to wait for the tutoring/mentoring simply because the position is one and the aspirants & tutors are just too many. Somebody or the other will always be out of tune. Governing 6 crore people 2% of Indian janta is good enough for getting catapulted to the national scene. After all people with long long years in central politics and mass mobilisation have reduced BJP to 115 from 183 (37% erosion). The central leadership itself first needs to establish its credentials as a valid mentor.

On why it is not advisable. Well this is politics. This is Kshatra Dharm. Bhai log an year is a long long time here. Advani ji himself got eclipsed when ABV became the leader for just 13 days. Not that one or the other was bad. Its just that wait period for NM is just plain bahanebaazi. Even within Kongress, Chavan, Arjun, Kesri, Pawar all got eclipsed by PVNR, who if i recollect correctly had wound up his personal library to basically retire just before him getting pushed to the centre stage. Not that I find that distasteful. And just the way PVNR was a bet that the system took on him so is every potential candidate. Indira eclipsed the INC (O) based merely on a quasi judicial order. In any case merely because Advani ji or Praveen Togadia have had experience of central politics or of mass mobilization does not guarantee they will be successful. These guys will be just as much a wager as anybody else. When was past performance a guarantee for future performance.

But here NM himself has to work for his own candidature. He needs to realise that at one point he was an untested Prabhari who took over the job. At that time he did not command any real valuation. In much the same manner he has to work pro bono here. And that is going to be good for everybody including for NM himself. If he has taken up the responsibility for this competition then he should do a through job of it.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by ramana »

JLN didn't have any mentoring either!

About PVNR, he did have opposition with INC. Pawar and Arjun Singh were the two contenders and they both decided to nominate PVNR as he was a known heart patient. ASs also refused to give up the title of Leader of the Lok Sabha even after PVNR was elected to the house and had to be told to get off.

Mrs G used to tell those who listen to her that the post of the PM empowers the individual and any preparation is futile.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

It could be because of dynasty and kingship, and raaja seeking crowd that INC is prevailing as a party. Now, that shows the desires of aam junta too.

On the contrary, there are many in fighting, intra party fights, leadership issues, party discipline, rebellions, et al make non-kangrez parties succumb or fail to counter INC.

Q: why is that people have these issues? I understand stricter CnC or chippandism or kingship is a contrary to democracy, but the challenge is higher for real forces to deny the darker forces to de-establish. It is not a joke to fight the dark side, as they are strong, well ordained, and black monied.

unless, plans are well laid.. winning is like crossing the himalayas.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by fanne »

If MMS can be PM without being seat warmed, why not others?
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

ramana wrote:In BJP itself.
It is the entire parivaar and not just BJP. The BJP folks are more visible and hence easy to know and get abused.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by SaiK »

Others meaning like yuvraj? :twisted:
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Sanku »

JLN, MMS et al as PM without any suitable qualitifications prior to their being one does not really strength the case, does it bhai-log.

:P

And if you ask me, neither does Obama, but since that is US, what goes of my father onlee.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Post by Muppalla »

ravi_g wrote:This seat warming idea is IMO neither necessary nor advisable.

There have been so many people with little helmsmanship at national level that have become PM. Hell Obama became a head of state our to nowhere. In any case every aspirant to the PM's position cannot be expected to wait for the tutoring/mentoring simply because the position is one and the aspirants & tutors are just too many. Somebody or the other will always be out of tune. Governing 6 crore people 2% of Indian janta is good enough for getting catapulted to the national scene. After all people with long long years in central politics and mass mobilisation have reduced BJP to 115 from 183 (37% erosion). The central leadership itself first needs to establish its credentials as a valid mentor.

On why it is not advisable. Well this is politics. This is Kshatra Dharm. Bhai log an year is a long long time here. Advani ji himself got eclipsed when ABV became the leader for just 13 days. Not that one or the other was bad. Its just that wait period for NM is just plain bahanebaazi. Even within Kongress, Chavan, Arjun, Kesri, Pawar all got eclipsed by PVNR, who if i recollect correctly had wound up his personal library to basically retire just before him getting pushed to the centre stage. Not that I find that distasteful. And just the way PVNR was a bet that the system took on him so is every potential candidate. Indira eclipsed the INC (O) based merely on a quasi judicial order. In any case merely because Advani ji or Praveen Togadia have had experience of central politics or of mass mobilization does not guarantee they will be successful. These guys will be just as much a wager as anybody else. When was past performance a guarantee for future performance.

But here NM himself has to work for his own candidature. He needs to realise that at one point he was an untested Prabhari who took over the job. At that time he did not command any real valuation. In much the same manner he has to work pro bono here. And that is going to be good for everybody including for NM himself. If he has taken up the responsibility for this competition then he should do a through job of it.

This is the best post describing the situation. Bahanebaazi is the right word. I failed to explain the same using examples couple of days ago in the other thread. :)

It is only in our politics we are seeing the way system is trying to find ways to keep publicly popular person away from the seat with some seat warmers and centurians. If we do that Modi will also be like LKA. LKA was not pushed when the time was right.
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