India-US relations: News and Discussions IV

[KL Dubey]

Here is the full DOJ indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/media ... /dl?inline

From the first read, the entire case depends on the validity of the "bribery charges". The rest of the charges are about hiding the claimed "bribery" methods when performing their reporting/disclosure obligations to various agencies and when marketing their offerings to other stakeholders. If there was no bribery in the first place, the rest of the charges are irrelevant.

For the bribery charges, the DOJ has got two approvers (neither an Adani employee, but worked for a renewables company incorporated in Mauritius) + a claimed high-ranking official in the YSRCP sarkar of Andhra Pradesh.

There is no specific evidence presented in the indictment about the bribery activities. There are references to intercepted electronic communications of conversations between the involved individuals, plus those recovered by the FBI from searching Sagar Adani's devices in 2023.

The US attorney is one Breon Peace (appointed by Bhaidanwa)...probably won't be around for long due to incoming administration.

[Mort Walker]

The US attorney is one Breon Peace (appointed by Bhaidanwa)...probably won't be around for long due to incoming administration.

Overzealous prosecutors with a political agenda are going to be themselves prosecuted as stated by new AG Pam Bondi earlier today. The next step is for Kash Patel to come in as FBI director to go hard against the criminal leftists.

[Tanaji]

@KL Dubey: I will be very surprised if the indictments are squashed - even if Breon Peace resigns. Its one more stick for US to beat us with and they wont let go without anything in return. Trump is nothing except transactional who thinks its a zero sum game.

[Cyrano]

This is a game two can play. If ED does some digging, there is lot they can find, to indict phoren execs and even make arrests.

I think this will continue since India has put its foot on the neck of phoren NGOs & EJ conversion rackets, and evangelicals have supported Trump big time.

[A Deshmukh]

Trump Treasury Secretary will be Scott Bessent.
He is former Soros' Fund Manager.
Looks like, Soros/DS has made a deal with Trump and power is back with DS now (minus the incompetency of Biden/Harris).

US would want to maintain Dollar hold. This will slow down Indian Rupee growth.
Lets hope our Govt is able to manage the potential inevitable friction successfully to our advantage.

[ernest]

I think this will continue since India has put its foot on the neck of phoren NGOs & EJ conversion rackets, and evangelicals have supported Trump big time.

Much needed. This episode hopefully will ensure that focus on stamping out such mischievous NGOs is not diluted. Keep going after them and all deep state assets.

[vijayk]

Trump Treasury Secretary will be Scott Bessent.
He is former Soros' Fund Manager.
Looks like, Soros/DS has made a deal with Trump and power is back with DS now (minus the incompetency of Biden/Harris).

US would want to maintain Dollar hold. This will slow down Indian Rupee growth.
Lets hope our Govt is able to manage the potential inevitable friction successfully to our advantage.

Soros made a deal or Trump made a deal?
Looks like Trump has conceded to stay alive and get power!!

Secretary of state - necon
Treasury secretary - Soros man

Great deal for DS (we take money and foreign policy/war machine) and you keep spending cuts/health

[Rakesh]

VIDEO: https://x.com/ANI/status/1859961819894603859 ---> Mumbai: Researcher RN Bhaskar says, "As long as the other parties listen to the US and create agitations that suit the USA, the US is happy with it. Remember in Bangladesh when the crisis came up and when Sheikh Hasina said we are not giving the USA the island that you want and the USA was upset with Sheikh Hasina because she wanted to balance American influence with China's influence. Overnight there was an agitation and she was replaced. India is making a move towards China because China is a closer neighbour. We will need China's investments. America is broke. America has a debt of $35 trillion. It can destroy the whole world with that kind of debt. Is it a blackmail attempt to make sure that India changes its political course? Is it a blackmail attempt whereby this incident is used to kill two people at the same time? The government and the industrialists?"

VIDEO: https://x.com/MeghUpdates/status/1859860589717356902 ---> "The US deep state is not pleased that India is not a compliant servant. The US approach has been to treat these other countries like they were black slaves on a plantation,” Former CIA analyst Larry Johnson.

VIDEO: https://x.com/arjun_ondkar/status/1859651500961825062 ---> Every Bharatiya who want to make Bharat super power will support our own people.

[KL Dubey]

@KL Dubey: I will be very surprised if the indictments are squashed - even if Breon Peace resigns. Its one more stick for US to beat us with and they wont let go without anything in return. Trump is nothing except transactional who thinks its a zero sum game.

Yes, its unclear how the charges on Adani et al and Nikhil Gupta will be dropped, especially since they pertain to foreign nationals. Probably there will be some kind of settlement (or a plea deal) - that will be used to potentially obtain some concessions from India.

Like I said - I highly doubt if the charges will be just dropped outright. But if that happens it will be a sign of a new chapter in India-US relations.

The cases more likely to be dropped outright are those directly against Trump and his associates.

Similarly, the threats of prosecuting DOJ officials and even judges, will be targeted at those who directly went after Trump and associates.

Breon Peace could be fired for incompetence - or just because an incoming president has the right to change the US attorney based on political affiliation (recall Preet Bharara). Peace's record doesn't show any overt actions against Trump and associates.

Nobody is going to prosecute a US attorney for going after Adani - these are just fantasies from the "brown uncle tom/uncle ram special cell" of MAGA.

[williams]

Indictment is just accusation. Adani just have to fight it out. This shows Indian companies have grown into large multi-nationals. So that is what that is. We can tighten screws, but need to do that carefully, since US is our largest trading partner. We cannot keep screwing our relationships simply because of a activist DA, we need to fight that battle separately.

[KL Dubey]

Indictment is just accusation. Adani just have to fight it out. This shows Indian companies have grown into large multi-nationals. So that is what that is. We can tighten screws, but need to do that carefully, since US is our largest trading partner. We cannot keep screwing our relationships simply because of a activist DA, we need to fight that battle separately.

Correct. But the international arrest warrant has been issued to produce Gautam and Sagar Adani in a US court to enter their plea (not guilty, of course) and seek bail. So now, the ball will be in Bharat sarkar's court to assess if the charges hold enough merit to allow them to be extradited. Meanwhile there is also a possibility that US operatives could apprehend Adani if/when he travels to a third country that has extradition arrangements with the US, like they did with Nikhil Gupta (Pannu case).

[A_Gupta]

Problem for the bribery accusation is that the electricity the Adani group is selling to the Andhra government appears to be at a competitive market rate (Rs 2.49 per kilowatt-hour). If the US prosecutor has intercepted electronics communications indicating bribery, could it be in connection with something other than electric power?

[Vayutuvan]

In India, even if one has a competitive bid, one is still expected to pay some dakshina to the babucrazy which gets funnelled into the coffers of the ruling party. It leaks along the way with people at various levels pocketing their part of the bribe. Back in the day, Junior Engineers in the PWD and R&B depts. in the AP used to get a 2%. If one is AE, then it is 3%, SE maybe 5%, and so on. Designs are made in such a way that the contractors have about 20% profit and good safety factors as well. But most contractors become greedy and don't build to spec thus lowering the safety factor margins. The entire inspection chain starting from overseers to supervisors to jr-asst-superintendent-...-CE chain will take cuts. If folks at the lower levels objected, then either they are denied promotions or they were harassed in other fashion - transfers and even threats to their and their family's life and limb.

Now things have become more sophisticated with consultants charging money to move govt paper work along. Essentially that is lobbying. If India legalizes lobbying, as it is done in the US, most problems of low level corruption will go away. But it comes with the problem of high level corruption as in what happens in Duplicity.

Just looking at it from a purely legalistic PoV or ethical/moral is academic exercise in futility

I thought some of our esteemed forum members learnt their lessons after failing to find the missing Malaysian Airliners aircraft by scanning 100s of 1000s of ocean scan pictures.

[A_Gupta]

May 2024:
https://blog.feniceenergy.com/solar-ele ... t_in_India

These guys expect to sell power at Rs 3.85 per kilowatt-hour.

FYI:

As alleged in the indictment, between approximately 2020 and 2024, the defendants agreed to pay more than $250 million in bribes to Indian government officials to obtain lucrative solar energy supply contracts with the Indian government, which were projected to generate more than $2 billion in profits after tax over an approximately 20-year period (the Bribery Scheme).

[Vayutuvan]

May 2024:
These guys expect to sell power at Rs 3.85 per kilowatt-hour.

Hain? Who are These guys? You want us to read the whole blog to find out? Please do summarize. You, sire, are very capable.

[vera_k]

In India, even if one has a competitive bid, one is still expected to pay some dakshina to the babucrazy which gets funnelled into the coffers of the ruling party. It leaks along the way with people at various levels pocketing their part of the bribe. Back in the day, Junior Engineers in the PWD and R&B depts. in the AP used to get a 2%. If one is AE, then it is 3%, SE maybe 5%, and so on.

So its not possible to detect corruption via pricing because *everyone* is on the take and thus all bids would have reflected the "price" of doing business.
Need to watch if CBI or ED start investigations into the officers involved.

[Lisa]

Here is the full DOJ indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/media ... /dl?inline

From the first read, the entire case depends on the validity of the "bribery charges". The rest of the charges are about hiding the claimed "bribery" methods when performing their reporting/disclosure obligations to various agencies and when marketing their offerings to other stakeholders. If there was no bribery in the first place, the rest of the charges are irrelevant.

For the bribery charges, the DOJ has got two approvers (neither an Adani employee, but worked for a renewables company incorporated in Mauritius) + a claimed high-ranking official in the YSRCP sarkar of Andhra Pradesh.

There is no specific evidence presented in the indictment about the bribery activities. There are references to intercepted electronic communications of conversations between the involved individuals, plus those recovered by the FBI from searching Sagar Adani's devices in 2023.

The US attorney is one Breon Peace (appointed by Bhaidanwa)...probably won't be around for long due to incoming administration.

Barclays trades in the US. What are the odds that the US will charge them with any misdemeanour in this regard?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqydn4qe0no

"For example, the bank paid one Qatari entity some £322m in fees for its participation over a number of years.

The Serious Fraud Office had alleged these were undisclosed extra fees demanded by the Qataris, paid through side agreements for what were described as advisory services."

Read carefully, just ONE entity paid £322 million!

[sanjaykumar]

There is absolutely nothing revelatory about this. Corruption is a way of life in the business world.

The indictment of Adani is only remarkable in its bald selectivity.

[vera_k]

Even in India, its unusual to have management in the know or involved in this type of corruption, since payoffs are handled by lower level people. What's seen by management is that something cost such and such.

Maybe the reduction of cash following demonetization in 2016 is bringing some of the payoffs above board.

[A_Gupta]

So Adani bribed everyone who submitted a bid for supplying solar power to the Andhra Government?

[vera_k]

No. The allegation is that government officers were bribed to cause distribution companies to buy power from SECI. Without this, its possible the original bid that was won would be re-negotiated, or re-bid.

So now the entity that won the bid is the only one at the table, and has an interest in protecting the price originally agreed to. Allegation here is that rather than agree to re-negotiate the tariff, some people were bribed to let the deal proceed as originally agreed to. However, a large number of people must be on the take since $265 million will go a long way.

This article I found goes into some detail on how discoms are refusing to sign PSAs in hope of getting a better price in the future since solar tariffs keep falling.

India’s Power Sale Agreement (PSA) Hold-Up

Observing the historic downward trend of solar prices and predicting further drops
in tariffs in the future, discoms have backed away from signing PSAs, and even at
times unilaterally revoked past agreements.

[Vayutuvan]

So Adani bribed everyone who submitted a bid for supplying solar power to the Andhra Government?

Nah. Everybody who submitted a bid to supply bribed the the AP govt. babus. Then they select the lowest bidder among the folks who qualify. Looks like you have to get yourself educated, I mean really educated, on the bidding process in Bharat.

They require at least three entities to compete in the bidding process. If there is only one or two, they will initiate a rebid. If that fails also, they mothball the project.

[A_Gupta]

> No. The allegation is that government officers were bribed to cause distribution companies to buy power from SECI. Without this, its possible the original bid that was won would be re-negotiated, or re-bid.

But the original bid was the lowest or one paisa above the lowest. Anyhow, let's see what ensues. This is complicated like the Nikhil Gupta/Pannun affair.

Re: timing - could this have anything to do with Adani setting deadlines for Bangladesh to pay its electricity bills?

[vera_k]

Based on the article I found, the original bid sometimes gets renegotiated at a later date because two government bodies cannot come to agreement after the bid was accepted. Not a good look in that matter overall.

Re: timing - the FBI seized phones in Mar 23, so the investigation has been underway for some time. Hindenburg's report was released Jan 23. So I also think they got some wind of the investigation underway.

[Vayutuvan]

@vera_k ji, can Hindenburg be sued for insider trading? It is hard to prove but worth a try, perhaps.

[bala]

I am still not understanding this Adani investigation by the US. Why is the US taxpayer on the hook for subsidizing legal idiots in NY, now FBI too about a thing which happened in India. Why the f?ing are these jokers interested in another nation's internal affairs however corrupt it may be. This business of money raised in the US is a red herring junk logic nonsense. Adani raised money which he is returning. Only if he does not return it, there can be investigation. Everything seem backwards and defies common logic and seems like busy work for some faction inspired/instigated nonsense.

[Vayutuvan]

The allegation is that a crime was committed. Whether Adani returns the money or not, criminal investigation was done and they found grounds for an indictment.

Think about it this way. Assume that everything took place in India to remove the US from the picture.

1. X gives bribe to Y for some favor. The bribe was funded by money X took from Z.
2. Giving and taking bribes is criminal activity in Indian legal system.
3. Let us a say before quid pro quo completed, ED obtained proof that money changed hands.

At this point, even if X returns the money to Z, the intent to commit crime is already proved. ED would drag X to court whether Z complained or not.

[sanman]

Biden whitehouse have brought these crooks into power in Bangla.
Biden whitehouse are themselves desperately resorting to WW3 to disrupt the world.
Likewise, Biden's misbegotten step-children in places like Ukraine and Bangla will similarly resort to every desperate stunt to survive.
This means that Hindus will have to endure every kind of horrible provocation from these crazy survival-artists.

[KL Dubey]

The key charges (alleged bribery) took place in India. So, India should thank USA for bringing this to notice, and completely take any investigation into its own hands. Most likely, no bribery will be found and India will refuse any extradition request. Note that India has made a number of extradition requests to USA. This latest move by USA seems targeted to also derail that process among others.

[chetak]

The allegation is that a crime was committed. Whether Adani returns the money or not, criminal investigation was done and they found grounds for an indictment.

Think about it this way. Assume that everything took place in India to remove the US from the picture.

1. X gives bribe to Y for some favor. The bribe was funded by money X took from Z.
2. Giving and taking bribes is criminal activity in Indian legal system.
3. Let us a say before quid pro quo completed, ED obtained proof that money changed hands.

At this point, even if X returns the money to Z, the intent to commit crime is already proved. ED would drag X to court whether Z complained or not.

Vayutuvan ji,


Every big amriki corporation has had to face such "indictments"

All of them ended up paying fines and and they were allowed to go free

There is no stigma attached to these type of "indictments".

the talk of arrest warrants is to fool an ignorant Indian public and cause a disruption in the Indian stock markets.

Here in India, it is being seen as a very big thing and the woke pappu media are playing it up. So much for Adani being a "media" baron.

But the tables have turned here in India because it is only the opposition states that who have allegedly dealt with the bribery bits and dimwit has majorly pissed off his indi alliance team by targeting them so publicly for corruption. his actions were not well thought out and neither were they of any use in pinning adani down. All that he has managed to do is to give credence to Modi ji's publicly stated charge that dimwit is being controlled by extraterritorial forces inimical to India's geopolitical and national interests and that charge has not been countered so far by the congis

dimwit always creates a storm in a teacup without thinking his actions through. The bitter consequences of his repeated failures are eating at him, corroding his already meagre intellect and causing a disintegrative blowback among his few allies. mumtaz bano has openly bid to replace him as the so called leader if the indi alliance

adani has not even used his own media house to defend himself.

[bala]

This business of alleged (accusing) crime is a pillar of BS built by the English Legal system which the US inherited from the Britshits. Unless proven, these are brain farts which the Britshits excel in singularly including their so called scientists/philosophers, e.g. the Darwin theory of evolution is horse puckey. The legal system has created an extortion racket to extract money from anyone. So many cases in the US are settled out of court due to the nuisance of legal actions. DJT himself settled many cases, when these bimbos started accusing him of all kinds of things.

I remember a case of a computer patent holder who has the original patent on auto-play of CD/DVD for PCs. He took on MickeySoft for violation but MickeySoft filed another case as a distraction, suddenly he was in the midst of two cases instead of one. He did not have the money to fight both so he settled with MickeySoft. Seems like the chimps in NY DOJ want to finger Adani since he stopped power in BD, just bogg him down with Allegations.

[williams]

This business of alleged (accusing) crime is a pillar of BS built by the English Legal system which the US inherited from the Britshits. Unless proven, these are brain farts which the Britshits excel in singularly including their so called scientists/philosophers, e.g. the Darwin theory of evolution is horse puckey. The legal system has created an extortion racket to extract money from anyone. So many cases in the US are settled out of court due to the nuisance of legal actions. DJT himself settled many cases, when these bimbos started accusing him of all kinds of things.

I remember a case of a computer patent holder who has the original patent on auto-play of CD/DVD for PCs. He took on MickeySoft for violation but MickeySoft filed another case as a distraction, suddenly he was in the midst of two cases instead of one. He did not have the money to fight both so he settled with MickeySoft. Seems like the chimps in NY DOJ want to finger Adani since he stopped power in BD, just bogg him down with Allegations.

Yes and large multi-national companies should find ways to deal with these legal issues. Adani will gain very good experience on how to fight this. As we grow large, our corporations are going to be hit by these kind issues. We'll eventual excel and put these clowns to rest.

[Cyrano]

We need to fight indictment with indictment and up the ante with some arrests. Just leaving it to Adani to fight it out is the wrong move IMO. This case is NOT your run of the mill "fight against corruption" by a free and fair US judicial system.

BD situation, Trudeau shenanigans, fanning flames against wakf bill in current parliament session, Putin's upcoming India visit (there is an ICJ arrest warrant on him), and now this attack on Adani are all connected. Biden administration is trying to tie India in several headaches so that there is no strong neutral voice/force to try and diffuse the Ukraine situation in the coming weeks - thats what is the main focus for US now. They are going all in on Ukraine and everything is being done with that single objective. They could be miscalculating.

[Manish_P]

We need to fight indictment with indictment and up the ante with some arrests. Just leaving it to Adani to fight it out is the wrong move IMO...

+1

That's how the Chinese/Russians do it. Arrest some yanks and then negotiate.

No need for us to go to level... yet. But need to have the counter escalation ladder in place.

[Mort Walker]

At this time it would be best to approach the Trump team in Maralago about Breon Peace being an activist political prosecutor who has a left wing agenda. Peace has a BA from UC Berkeley & JD from NYU Law. He was selected in March 2021 by recommendation of Chuck Schumer. This is entirely political persecution. Lots of things are in flux.

[KL Dubey]

Looks like it is another Soros attempt on Adani (and indirectly on Modi). I have read several articles on the connection between attorney Peace and the Soros ecosystem to cross-check credibility. I am posting one of them here:

https://www.opindia.com/2024/11/as-gaut ... e_vignette

I am not sure if this is a "rogue action" by Peace, or whether it is approved by Bhaidanwa's attorney general (M. Garland). It is not necessary for every US indictment to be approved formally by the AG, but Garland certainly did have approving comments on the Nikhil Gupta indictment.

In my opinion Bharat sarkar should not be in any "rush" to act too soon. Things should be pursued in a direct manner with due process. If no evidence of any bribery is found by Indian authorities, we should directly request the charges be dropped and no strings attached, with consequences to follow for the India-US relationship if our request is not accepted. Definitely shouldn't be asking any "favors" or "negotiating". In the unlikely case that there were bribes paid, it will be a rather different matter.

Finally, there will be "backroom" maneuvers and a lot more information/context that we may never know - so there is no point in second-guessing beyond an certain extent. We will have to "let the professionals deal with this".

[KL Dubey]

the talk of arrest warrants is to fool an ignorant Indian public and cause a disruption in the Indian stock markets.

Not quite. It's not talk, warrants have actually been issued and will be given to the FBI international operations guys in the US embassy in New Delhi. These guys will then connect to Indian authorities to pursue this.

In the Nikhil Gupta case, they were even more aggressive, and arrested him in a third country. If something like that happens to Adani, it would become a major issue...so he will likely have to be very careful in deciding whether to travel internationally for the next few months at least.

[KL Dubey]

> No. The allegation is that government officers were bribed to cause distribution companies to buy power from SECI. Without this, its possible the original bid that was won would be re-negotiated, or re-bid.

But the original bid was the lowest or one paisa above the lowest. Anyhow, let's see what ensues. This is complicated like the Nikhil Gupta/Pannun affair.

Re: timing - could this have anything to do with Adani setting deadlines for Bangladesh to pay its electricity bills?

I have posted the full indictments for both the Gupta and Adani cases. They explain in detail what the charges are. Most posters will not read them, hence leading to scattered comments/discussion.

It looks like a Soros-inspired hit (and we know his motivations). After the Hindenburg attempt which failed to take out the Adani group, now a direct US government action is being tried.

The current US goremint officials will probably not step in since their party has taken plenty of money from Soros. It is still an open question if this was a "lone-ranger action" by Peace and a small number of his colleagues, or whether it had orders/approval from higher echelons.

[vijayk]

Look AT THIS. DUMBICRATS won't touch this

[KL Dubey]

^^Describe your point in more detail? This is a state action and not linked to India-US relations.