Discussion on Indian Special Forces

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atreya
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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby atreya » 28 Oct 2009 22:04

@ Dmurphy
I was about to say the same thing. The pic is "titled" as that of an NSG commando. I think it is wrong.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Dmurphy » 28 Oct 2009 22:26

chetak wrote:
Rahul M wrote:with all the institutes and research orgs there people would have thought there was a better case for b'lore than either chennai or hyderabad.



The simple but inescapable fact is that Bangalore is in a BJP state.
On such weighty considerations are our national security decisions made.

The state government made repeated requests for also basing the NSG at Bangalore but were turned down, by chidu of all people.

Chektak, please stop painting purely administrative decisions with political colours and whine like a DDM. Jodhpur (in Rajasthan - INC ruled, close to Paki border) and Guwahati in Assam (INC ruled, grappling with an ever increasing insurgency and frequent attacks) are also covered by the IA's SFs and BSF respectively.

Also, does it ever occur to you guys as to how many NSGs we have, to fan them out so thin across India? As Surya mentioned a few posts back, the fact is, one can never cover a country like India enough!

And are you also hinting that the IA's SFs are less capable of handling these situations than the NSG?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 28 Oct 2009 22:41

Dmurphy wrote:^^^

Does it cross your mind that it could be MARCOS?

Its seems like he's been photographed at some warship launching ceremony.

Yes, the thought did cross my mind.
Black clad command sporting a beard..the first thing that crosses your mind is MARCOS.
But look at the background, I am able to spot three police personnel.
But they could be MARCOS, but I somehow do not think so.
That is why I posted the pic, I thought that perhaps someone could confidently id it.

ADDED LATER: Could there be a turban under that cap?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Dmurphy » 28 Oct 2009 23:03

Gaur wrote:But look at the background, I am able to spot three police personnel.
But they could be MARCOS, but I somehow do not think so.
The MARCOS have been seen in public without a mask/scarf of late during the launching of warships where they have been stationed for security. This is definitely one of those times. So its definitely a MARCOS.

Just out of curiosity, where did you find this pic? Can you post the original link?

Added later: Come to think of it, the MP5 he's carrying is the one used by the NSGs. The MARCOS are known to carry MP5K, which is not what that is.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 29 Oct 2009 00:09

Dmurphy wrote:Just out of curiosity, where did you find this pic? Can you post the original link?

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=89961&page=140

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Ravi Karumanchiri » 29 Oct 2009 05:56

If I may offer my entirely uninformed opinion re: this gentleman's beard... I was under the impression that everyone stationned on a war ship must also do double-duty as a fire fighter, in case of fire; and that this necessitates the wearing of an oxygen mask -- that will not fit snuggly over a beard. Furthermore, that a commando might need to employ tear gas or other such gas during operations, and that similarly, a gas mask will not fit snuggly over a beard. If I were to offer my naive opinion, I would say the gentleman is not a full-time MARCOS or a regular-duty NSG commando. He is probably most often tasked with close protection (bodyguard) duties, in plain clothes; but on this one occassion, for some reason, was assigned to do point protection. Just a guess.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby ParGha » 29 Oct 2009 16:11

Ravi Karumanchiri wrote:If I may offer my entirely uninformed opinion re: this gentleman's beard... I was under the impression that everyone stationned on a war ship must also do double-duty as a fire fighter, in case of fire; and that this necessitates the wearing of an oxygen mask -- that will not fit snuggly over a beard. Furthermore, that a commando might need to employ tear gas or other such gas during operations, and that similarly, a gas mask will not fit snuggly over a beard.

Depends on what type of gas-masks is used by the Indian Army. Most modern designs operate on the principle of forced intake, so they require a close seal with the facial skin; one may have to shave off the area on which the seal will settle. But I presume there may be other designs out there. I don't think oxygen masks require a skin seal.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby A Sharma » 30 Oct 2009 18:56

Special Forces being modernised to deal with asymmetric warfare: Army Chief

AGRA: Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor has said that asymmetric warfare was a "matter of concern" for the country and the Special Forces were being modernised and equipped to deal with it.

"There is a whole set of new equipment which we have thought of for the Para (Special Forces) modernisation, especially in view of the fact that asymmetric and fourth generation warfare are a matter for concern," Gen Kapoor said on the sidelines of the Parachute Regiment reunion here.

In asymmetric warfare, non-state actors fight against conventional state machinery and apply innovative ways for carrying out strikes such as the 26/11 attacks.

Commenting on the spurt in activities of Taliban in Pakistan and Indian armed forces' preparedness to deal with the threat, he said, "I would like to ensure the country that we are ready to face any challenge."

On the training standards and the equipment of Indian Special Forces, Army training command chief and senior para officer Lt Gen A S Lamba said, "I think we are among the best and we are making endeavours to improve our equipment and are very well geared up to put our best foot forward."

Terming the Indian Special Forces as one of the best, colonel of the Parachute Regiment Lt Gen P C Katoch said, "I think that is the reason why the US army and Special Forces train with us.

"They were surprised to see our experience and achievements. It is not just the Americans we are training with, we are doing so with the British, Russian and many others forces also."

He added that the Army was making sure that the Special Forces were keeping pace with their requirements.

"Keeping the future in mind, we are planning on what is to be procured for short and long terms," Katoch said.

The seven units of the Special Forces are deployed in counter-insurgency areas in Northeast and Jammu and Kashmir.

After the 26/11 attacks, these units were also given the task of training Infantry units for close-quarter combat and urban terrorism.

Personnel from these units are sent on deputation to the National Security Guard also. Havaldar Gajendra Singh from 10 Para (SF) unit was awarded the highest peace-time gallantry award Ashok Chakra posthumously for his role in eliminating terrorists involved in the Mumbai attacks last year.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 31 Oct 2009 15:36

Colonel of the Parachute Regiment Lt Gen P C Katoch said


Is this the same gentleman who led the assault on terrorists in Golden Temple?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nainanmark » 02 Nov 2009 13:47

Gaur wrote:http://s698.photobucket.com/albums/vv345/parijatgaur/?action=view&current=NSG.jpg
I came across this pic on militaryphotos.net forum.
It was captioned as NSG commando.
But are NSG allowed to grow beards?
I thought that no one except for NAVY allowed beards.


Look at the pic on his ID card. He is wearing a black beret. NSG berets are black while MARCOS use sand colored ones.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Dmurphy » 02 Nov 2009 13:55

nainanmark wrote:while MARCOS use sand colored ones
MARCOS wear maroon berets. Shiv Aroor's blog had pics of them wearing maroon berets some days back.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby VijayKumarSinha » 02 Nov 2009 14:42

Dmurphy wrote:
nainanmark wrote:while MARCOS use sand colored ones
MARCOS wear maroon berets. Shiv Aroor's blog had pics of them wearing maroon berets some days back.


That doesn't look like a beret to me. I think its a rolled up balaclava mask or just a light ski cap.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Dmurphy » 02 Nov 2009 15:19

VijayKumarSinha wrote:That doesn't look like a beret to me. I think its a rolled up balaclava mask or just a light ski cap.
We weren't talking about what he's wearing in the pic. We were discussing the pic on his id card. Look closely.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby atreya » 02 Nov 2009 17:32

@ DMurphy
MARCOS wears sand coloured berets, according to Wikipedia. I googled it: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000122/ind2118a.gif
They are wearing sand coloured berets here also

AFAIK, maroon berets are worn by Para Commandos and "maybe" the Garud Commandos. Not sure about the latter.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby nainanmark » 02 Nov 2009 18:20

Dmurphy wrote:
nainanmark wrote:while MARCOS use sand colored ones
MARCOS wear maroon berets. Shiv Aroor's blog had pics of them wearing maroon berets some days back.


I searched on BR and found this pic which has the sand colored beret. It seems strange the color choice that is.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... m%26um%3D1

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 02 Nov 2009 19:52

Originally Marcos wore sand colored berets and the Garuds wore black berets.
However, both of them have now moved on to maroon berets similar to that of paras.

Marcos:
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/10/photos-navy-chief-meets-marine.html

There are several pics of Garuds wearing maroon berets in Aero India thread.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 02 Nov 2009 20:06

garuds originally started with black berets but later requested for the maroon berets that are traditionally associated with SF. something similar might have happened with MARCOS.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KiranM » 02 Nov 2009 21:28

^^ Didnt we have pics recently of IN chief addressing MARCOs in J&K? If my memory is correct they were using maroon berets, not traditional black.

Regards,
Kiran

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 02 Nov 2009 21:37

MARCOS never had black berets. and that pic is in the post above mine !

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Riza Zaman » 02 Nov 2009 21:53

Been out of touch for a while. so please forgive my question - what weapon is this MARCOS operative using?

Image

The pic's a bit large, but I'm not sure how to make it into a thumbnail ... can a mod do the needful please?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby atreya » 02 Nov 2009 22:25

That looks like a Negev to me. And that commando is powerful! :shock: Firing an LMG like an assault rifle!! :eek:

Or maybe, it is the lighter version of Negev. Called the Negev Commando, according to Wikipedia

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby KiranM » 02 Nov 2009 23:20

Rahul M wrote:MARCOS never had black berets. and that pic is in the post above mine !


My bad. :oops: Meant to say their traditional sand coloured beret. was in a hurry to leave work. Mixed up the colours. Also cannot access pictures from office.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Aditya G » 02 Nov 2009 23:21

Gaur wrote:There are several pics of Garuds wearing maroon berets in Aero India thread.


Those were Army SF on protection duty of COAS

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby krishna_krishna » 02 Nov 2009 23:33

That is M249 FN MINIMI

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 03 Nov 2009 03:33

Aditya G wrote:
Gaur wrote:There are several pics of Garuds wearing maroon berets in Aero India thread.


Those were Army SF on protection duty of COAS

Both IA Para and Garuds were present at AI 09.
And please check the comments on that thread, the Garuds were also wearing maroon berets. There is no doubt in that regard.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Gaur » 03 Nov 2009 03:42

krishna_krishna wrote:That is M249 FN MINIMI

Nope, thats a Negev. AFAIK, India does not have MINIMI.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 03 Nov 2009 05:04

rohitvats wrote:
Colonel of the Parachute Regiment Lt Gen P C Katoch said


Is this the same gentleman who led the assault on terrorists in Golden Temple?


Yes. He also survived an assassination attempt at hospital where he was admitted after being severely wounded in the 1st assault on the Akal Takht positions.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 03 Nov 2009 16:54

Raja Bose wrote: Yes. He also survived an assassination attempt at hospital where he was admitted after being severely wounded in the 1st assault on the Akal Takht positions.


That was the very reason I asked the question. Dad was posted in the hospital (Base Hospital - Jalandhar) and I vaguely remembered his name being mentioned. My old man knows him. IIRC, he served as GOC of IX Corps(?) and his brother is also from IA.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Craig Alpert » 08 Nov 2009 18:20

Force One commandos set to guard Mumbai
Over 1,600 young policemen from the state had expressed their willingness to join the Force and were given rigorous training by Israeli and German trainers, Iyengar said. The information would first go to the local police station and then a Quick Response Team (QRT) would deal with the situation and later, Force One would take charge.
The QRT is trained in such a way that it would reach a place within 20 minutes. It has also been provided bullet proof jackets and armed vehicles, Iyengar said.

What is that last statement suppose to be a JOKE??? How can you not provide the local police officers these equipments considering they will be the first to arrive and then give it all to QRT's and Force 1???? One may think that even after 26/11 there might have been some sense into the BABUS and provide the cops the necessary equipment to deal with situations.. but guess LOCAL POLITICS and votes of MARATHI MANOOS is more important for Chavan then getting the cops the right equipment.... :evil:

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Shameek » 08 Nov 2009 19:37

^^ I think what they are trying to say is that the local policemen will inform the QRT and not engage the threat themselves. Once the QRT is there (within 20 mins) they will start engaging the threat. Then Force One will come in.

On a side note, anyone know if they will use helicopters? Mumbai traffic can be tough to get across especially in the peak hours.


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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Rahul M » 09 Nov 2009 23:27

moved to the correct thread. will reply there.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3757&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=800

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby mmasand » 10 Nov 2009 01:14

shameekg wrote:On a side note, anyone know if they will use helicopters? Mumbai traffic can be tough to get across especially in the peak hours.


Mentioned in an earlier article...http://www.mid-day.com/news/2008/dec/171208-Mumbai-Terror-attack-National-Security-Guard-Force-One-unit-Mumbai-Police-Chief-Minister.htm

Two helicopters are being requisitioned for swift movement of commandos across the state.


Although i did read somewhere that navy choppers would be used if the need arises and mumbai police would be acquiring a chopper in the near future for special events etc.

Another source quotes ex-HM Jayant Patil 'Suggesting' a chopper for emergencies due to traffic snarls.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Lalmohan » 10 Nov 2009 02:24

nainanmark wrote:I searched on BR and found this pic which has the sand colored beret. It seems strange the color choice that is.



SAS wears sand coloured berets

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sanju » 10 Nov 2009 06:51

rohitvats wrote:
Raja Bose wrote: Yes. He also survived an assassination attempt at hospital where he was admitted after being severely wounded in the 1st assault on the Akal Takht positions.


That was the very reason I asked the question. Dad was posted in the hospital (Base Hospital - Jalandhar) and I vaguely remembered his name being mentioned. My old man knows him. IIRC, he served as GOC of IX Corps(?) and his brother is also from IA.


Rohitvats,
OT. Coincidentally, we were in Jalandhar too at that time. My Pa was part of the Op. It was difficult times.
Cheers,
S

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Raja Bose » 10 Nov 2009 07:53

^^^ If you can disclose....which unit was your Dad in during that time? Was he amongst the units which went in?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Surya » 10 Nov 2009 08:29

sanju

Does your dad have any other notes to add to what is known? If possible?

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby Sanju » 10 Nov 2009 10:09

Raja,

IIRC correctly, his Brigade was split into 3, with one of the units the 26 Madras led by Lt. Col. KMG Panicker went in. The 14 Mahar was sent to Patti area on the other side of Amritsar for the expected push from the Pakis. He was with the Fighting Fourteen.

Surya,
I cannot add anything that is not already known with regard to the fighting inside.

From a point of view of what happened inside, he was aghast at what the terrorists had done in the Harmandir Sahib. Used condoms etc were found inside, huge amount of Canadian and American currencies. VCR and other electronics that were not readily available till the later eighties were found there.
The army was extremely strict with its soldiers in making sure that none took things out as "loot". When I say soldiers it included everyone - officers too. There was a certain CO who was about to taken to task for the troops under his command had taken a VCP or something. Let me just say that the issue was resolved without any one being censured.

On another note Gen Sundarji, who was from Mahar (although the Colonel of the Regiment of the Mechanised Infantry Regiment, he was always fond of the Mahars which was his original regiment) told his staff to buzz-off so that he could spend time with "my boys".

It is unfortunate that people say that the Op BlueStar was not a success. To my mind it was a success even if for the only reason that the lessons learnt provided success for the following Op. Black Thunder. Op. Bluestar is probably the Op where the IA was blooded in a large scale CI CQB.

Surya there are a lot of questions that I wanted to ask him - unfortunately cannot.

Sorry again for the OT.

edited to correct the spelling of Lt. Col. KMG Panicker
Last edited by Sanju on 10 Nov 2009 12:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby rohitvats » 10 Nov 2009 10:42

Sanju wrote:
Rohitvats,
OT. Coincidentally, we were in Jalandhar too at that time. My Pa was part of the Op. It was difficult times.
Cheers,
S


I can understand. Dad also served for a short duration as ADC to governor and with all the activity going around, it was one heck of a time.

And as they say, IA is one heck of 'small' place. You do not know who you may bump into who was in same station/school/colony while you were there.

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Re: Discussion on Indian Special Forces

Postby AdityaM » 10 Nov 2009 11:00

Some of dads friends (who became some of the senior commanders in the army ) had mentioned that the army was concerned about the charged atmosphere around the time, and many attrocities that they uncovered were kept hidden so as not to create any further bad blood.
The army had found many naked women inside 'the temple', who had been violated by the terrorsists. There were many dead ones too whose bodies were lying around because the terrorists could not dispose them off.

I wish all this info was brought into public domain, so that the focus could be put on the real culprits, instead bad mouthing the army.


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